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ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)

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Author Topic: ATLANTIS & the Atlantic Ocean 1 (ORIGINAL)  (Read 15960 times)
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« Reply #540 on: December 30, 2007, 08:33:54 am »

Jaime Manuschevich

Member # 3005

Rate Member   posted 04-22-2006 12:03 PM                       
Greg Little:

Seems to me very reasonable your position and I share it totally. Who we wished to show that Atlantis existed, we must be very rigorous in the matter of the tests. Here there is no space for the speculation or to personal beliefs. Also the methodology to present the data and the conclusions is essential. Of another way, never nothing will be able to be proven or will remove the study from Atlantis of the dark fields of the speculation.

Now, in this analysis of method in which we are, the dates are subjects that merit a deep analysis. Plato never indicated that all the events happened in the 9600 BC. He indicates that there the process began. The scientific researches say that there they beginning the first human settlement with agriculture; that is to say, in that date start the civilization. In this point, therefore, there is coincidence. Also the myth talking of evolution of these cities by many generations, that is to say, is long lapses of time. Archaeology says us the same, because in the 8000 BC already there are many cities, that a civilization in expansion shows, which also indicates the myth. Again there is coincidence.

When the other events happened, the war and the end of Atlantis? Plato do not put a date to him. Plato says to us that there were fleets of boats, horses and cars battle. And there we are in a great problem. We must look for events in the history that show a similar situation to us. An end takes to dates like the 1200 BC and the towns to us of the sea. Oldest according to my registries, they are the indicated one by Hawkes, when it describes to the expansion of towns agriculturists from east to the West, in boats, by all the Mediterranean Sea (circa 5000 BC). Another one, established by Gimbutas, the Kurgans invasions (circa 4000), that came from the Caucasus. I settle down another one, of the Cananites towards the north (circa 3500 BC), that invaded Egypt and Mesopotamia, by the Red Sea. The problem that has these invasions is that no simultaneously has chariots and fleets of boats.

In the personnel, I incline by a combination of the two first possibilities. One has boats and the other, has horses and cars. Also because they are more near the date than I settled down for the end of Atlantis, the 5600.

I incline to also think that it is a generic story of the war between two cultures: Indo-European and Semites. On this subject in special, I believe that still there is much to study.

The problem is that nothing of these facts happens in the proximity which today we know like the Atlantic Ocean, neither we have nor single data that show similar events in that region.

Here the texts of Hawkes.


"It seems that the main departure point for the diffusion of the neolithic cultures towards the west throughout the Mediterranean was from Eastern extreme him of the sea... The oldest diffusion (to less of course, than it proves itself that ` was a phase pre potering) is characterized by a type of ceramics with drawings printed before the baking, frequently with the edge of a shell. It is the ceramics of but the old establishment, the one of Mersin, and also apparently of Ram Shamra, [Ugarit], Biblos, and other syrian cities. Towards the west one always is in possession of the oldest agricultural communities, in Crete, Malta, the south of Italy, Sicily, the south of France and the coasts "levantinas" of Spain. Also one is in several small islands... affirms that the same tradition is represented in a series of places throughout the coast of Africa... All these tests indicate, then, towards a propagation of communities farmers by sea... This great diffusion could rather have begun from its Eastern sources before after the beginning of the fourth millenium; one has still not settled down how long demanded that it took the agricultural economy to France and Spain. Perhaps it is a period that exceeds the thousand years." Hawkes, Jacquetta. History of Humanity, Page 293.


Work of Gimbutas

Stages of expansion
Gimbutas' original suggestion identifies four successive stages of the Kurgan culture and three successive "waves" of expansion.

• Kurgan I, Dnieper/Volga region, earlier half of the 4th millennium BC. Apparently evolving from cultures of the Volga basin, subgroups include the Samara and Seroglazovo cultures.

• Kurgan II–III, latter half of the 4th millennium BC. Includes the Sredny Stog culture and the Maykop culture of the northern Caucasus. Stone circles, early two-wheeled chariots, anthropomorphic stone stelae of deities.

• Kurgan IV or Yamna culture, first half of the 3rd millennium BC, encompassing the entire steppe region from the Ural to Romania.

• Wave 1, predating Kurgan I, expansion from the lower Volga to the Dnieper, leading to coexistence of Kurgan I and the Cucuteni culture. Repercussions of the migrations extend as far as the Balkans and along the Danube to the Vinca and Lengyel cultures in Hungary.

• Wave 2, mid 4th millennium BC, originating in the Maykop culture and resulting in advances of "kurganized" hybrid cultures into northern Europe around 3000 BC (Globular Amphora culture, Baden culture, and ultimately Corded Ware culture). In the view of Gimbutas, this would correspond to the first intrusion of Indo-European languages into western and northern Europe.

• Wave 3, 3000–2800 BC, expansion of the Yamna culture beyond the steppes, with the appearance of the characteristic pit graves as far as the areas of modern Romania, Bulgaria and eastern Hungary.


• 4500–4000: Early PIE. Sredny Stog, Dnieper-Donets and Samara cultures, domestication of the horse (Wave 1).

• 4000–3500: The Yamna culture, the prototypical kurgan builders, emerges in the steppe, and the Maykop culture in the northern Caucasus. Indo-Hittite models postulate the separation of Proto-Anatolian before this time.

• 3500–3000: Middle PIE. The Yamna culture is at its peak, representing the classical reconstructed Proto-Indo-European society, with stone idols, early two-wheeled proto-chariots, predominantly practicing animal husbandry, but also with permanent settlements and hillforts, subsisting on agriculture and fishing, along rivers. Contact of the Yamna culture with late Neolithic Europe cultures results in the "kurganized" Globular Amphora Baden cultures (Wave 2). The Maykop culture shows the earliest evidence of the beginning Bronze Age, and Bronze weapons and artefacts are introduced to Yamna territory. Probable early Satemization.

• 3000–2500: Late PIE. The Yamna culture extends over the entire Pontic steppe (Wave 3). The Corded Ware culture extends from the Rhine to the Volga, corresponding to the latest phase of Indo-European unity, the vast "kurganized" area disintegrating into various independent languages and cultures, still in loose contact enabling the spread of technology and early loans between the groups, except for the Anatolian and Tocharian branches, which are already isolated from these processes. The Centum-Satem break is probably complete, but the phonetic trends of Satemization remain active.

• 2500–2000: The breakup into the proto-languages of the attested dialects is complete. Proto-Greek is spoken in the Balkans, Proto-Indo-Iranian north of the Caspian in the emerging Andronovo culture. The Bronze Age reaches Central Europe with the Beaker culture, likely composed of various Centum dialects. The Tarim mummies possibly correspond to proto-Tocharians.

• 2000–1500: The chariot is invented, leading to the split and rapid spread of Iranian and Indo-Aryan from the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex over much of Central Asia, Northern India, Iran and Eastern Anatolia. Proto-Anatolian is split into Hittite and Luwian. The pre-Proto-Celtic Unetice culture has an active metal industry (Nebra skydisk).

• 1500–1000: The Nordic Bronze Age develops pre-Proto-Germanic, and the (pre)-Proto-Celtic Urnfield and Hallstatt cultures emerge in Central Europe, introducing the Iron Age. Migration of the Proto-Italians into the Italian peninsula (Bagnolo stele). Redaction of the Rigveda and rise of the Vedic civilization in the Punjab. The Mycenaean civilization gives way to the Greek Dark Ages.

• 1000 BC–500 BC: The Celtic languages spread over Central and Western Europe. Proto Germanic. Homer and the beginning of Classical Antiquity. The Vedic Civilization gives way to the Mahajanapadas. Zoroaster composes the Gathas, rise of the Achaemenid Empire, replacing the Elamites and Babylonia. Armenians succeed the Urartu culture. Separation of Proto-Italic into Osco-Umbrian and Latin-Faliscan. Genesis of the Greek and Old Italic alphabets. A variety of Paleo-Balkan languages are spoken in Southern Europe. The Anatolian languages are extinct.

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