Desiree
Member
Member # 2991
Member Rated:
posted 03-28-2006 09:49 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Jaime Manuschevich:
Desiree:
As I said to him, each detail of my theory is endorsed by validated scientific datas. Not to repeat data such, please you read part of debate in
http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001541;p=1 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, I have read this discussion, twice! Yesterday and today, trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. You don't give the Greeks any credit for knowing their local geography, do you?
Anyway, I disagree with Herr Saltzman that the Natufians weren't an interesting culture, but they don't bear any resemblance to Plato's Atlantis.
I'm not Herr Saltzman's biggest fan, but he seemed to sum up all the majr arguing points against your theory pretty well with this post. He probably would have continued arguing against it if he hadn't been banned:
quote:
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1. You seem to think Israel is an island, when it is not.
2. The Natufians were primitive hunter-gatherers that learned to farm, not an advanced civilization.
3. Atlantis was to the west of Egypt -you think it was to the east.
4. Atlantis invaded W. Libya and Tyrrhenia, you hold that it invaded Nubia and Phoenicia.
5. You hold the Pillars of Herakles were of the Erythraean Sea, when they were in Gibraltar, and previous to that Messina.
6. You choose to omit the fact that there the straits you propose are not Western straits.
7. There is no reason for the Greeks to rotate the seas.
8. Even if the Pillars of Herakles were in the Red Sea, an absurd assumption, then Atlantis would have to be beyond the Pillars, but Israel is actually inside them.
9. It is ridiculous to counter this former argument by saying the Mediterranean was the "real" sea Plato was talking about, because he distinguished the seas of Greece, the Mediterranean, and the sea of the Atlanteans.
10. Never did Israel have any important role in Near Eastern politics. It was a strip of land constnatly fought over by the Hittites and Egyptians and Assyrians. It was a ridiculously weak state. There is no ancient civilization that could harbor Atlantis.
11. Israel is, and always has been, a barren desert. The sparse greenness we see there today was manmade.
12. Elephants do not exist in Israel, nor does a plain of the type Plato is describing, nor is Israel larger, or mightier, than Libya (N. Africa bordering on the Med.) and Asia(Middle East) combined -in fact, Israel was part of ancient Asia.
13. The Natufians were taken out 8200 BCE, and they had no metallurgical skills, no navigation skills, no knowledge of permanent construction, no writing system, no far flung trade routes, and absolutely no sort of civilization whatsoever. They were not the amazing empire Plato describes in his Atlantis story.
14. Seeing as they went out 8200 BCE (probably by a drought our some such), there is no way for them to somehow communicate with a nonexistent Egyptian state and tell their story in such detail, nor is there any way for them to fight with Athens.
15. Not only does your theory lack every basic element of the Atlantis story (the empire, the location, the catastrophe), it has absolutely no circumstantial evidence.
Plato does not say it was the first food producing society.
He does not say it had a monotheistic religion -in fact, he implies it worshipped the Greek gods.
He does not say all other civilizations in the world emanated from there.
He does not give any shape for the island.
You list "bull sacrifice" as among the most relevant clues Plato gives us, but it is not. These are the most "relevant" clues.
While he does say that the center island was an important religious cult, this is not one of the relevant clues.
1. It was an island.
2. It was in front of the Pillars of Herakles.
3. It was a western power that attempted to subdue the E. Mediterranean.
4. It was destroyed by a flood.
5. It had a civilization with writing, engineering, specialization of labor, a hierarchy, an army, a navy, a confederacy of kings, and so on.
Those are the five basic tenets of the Atlantis story, and your theory does not fulfill any.
In addition, I would like an answer to your outrageous lie that Plato says Atlantis was the first food producing society, and the first civilization.