Were the Sea Peoples a confederacy led by Atlantis?

[Mark of Australia]

This is not a new idea .Jurgen Spanuth suggested in the 1950's that the attack of the Atlanteans on the eastern Mediterranean mentioned by Plato is none other than the event seen in the archaeological record as the invasions of the Sea Peoples around 1200BC .

Spanuth may or may not have been the first to suggest this. 

Some of the Sea Peoples mentioned by Rameses III at Medinet Habu have been identified as being from the western Mediterranean ,eg.) Mesh Wesh ,Shekelesh ,Shardana  = Libyans ,Sicilians and Sardinians respectively .
We will recall that Atlantis held sway ,starting in the west,  over Europe as far as Etruria ,and over Libya as far as the border with Egypt.

Mainstream scholarship has reached the conclusion that the Sea Peoples were not organized and that they were a rabble, mostly conducting random pirate raids.
I disagree ,I think they were guided from afar by the Atlantean warmongers ,and they were very organized and deliberate in where they invaded.

[BlueHue]

DEAR   MARK,

You said to have read some Parts of the"Ages-in-Chaos book( dd, 1950 repeatedly re-issued & reprinted.)reprints.)As if you did not know: Dr Velikovsky allready found out in 1971 that these socalled Sea-People had nothing to do with the demise of Assyria.  It was a supprize attack from the Port of Joppa in israel on the New 29-th rebel Dynasty of Nectanebo-1/ Rammesses-3 in Egypt by the mercenary General Iphicrates & the persian Admiral Pharbazanes or MegaByssos( I forget!)


Alas they were supprizes themselves by the Spring-Nileflood which threw the invasionforce back to open Sea followed by the Greek mercenary marines from Naukratis.


Nectanebo-1/Ramesses-3 reigned: about 380-349 bc  then after his death King Atraxerxes-3 retook Egypt in 349-333 bc, untill Alexander the Great had himself crowned Pharaoh at Shiwa-Oases.


In 1971 Dr V. issued the Book "About the Sea-Peoples"after Ages-in-Chaos, where he stated and explained that as the 500 years of Egyptian history did not exist, those greek DARK-AGES'also did not exist.  This book, was less reprinted therefore less known but in 1975 another english-female Author issued a book by the same title totally ignoring Dr V's findings and solution as the invading foexpeditionary forces of the Persian monarch Artaxerxes-2


Sincerely      "BlueHue"   =:(

[Mark of Australia]

I did read some of Velikovskys 'Peoples of the Sea'  and it is very intriguing . I couldn't quite accept his idea but I couldn't deny it either .It does need more study ..

Who was this other author that published his own work that was similar ??   only same title ?  or similar content aswell

[BlueHue]

I forget I got brain dammage you know,

The only reason that dr.Velikovsky's ( 4 )books don't read "swell"
is because as a russian born he had to self-aquire english when he went to the US.

Anyway the Story of Rammesses-3 against these Sea-Poples IS a confusing story because of the many Greek mercenary forces that were employed on both Sides of the enemy frontline.

Time frame is:  380 bc, thus not the "traditionally false" date  of: 1200 bc.

The story is about  the reconquest Raid on Egypt by persian Emperor Artaxerxces-3 in 380 bc
His persian mercenary fleet was repulsed during an UNEXPECTED ANNUAL FLOOD IN THE MOUTH OF THE DAMIETTA BRANCE of the Nile

The Persian fleet commanders were "Pharzabazanes and Iphicrates"  in 380 bc, this raid was repulsed but in 343 Artaxerxces did succeed in retaking Egypt but had to release it ten years later when Alexander-the-great entered Egypt at the Shiva-=Oasis and had himself Crowned Pharaoh there , by the Amun-Priests

The other Book on the Peoples-of the Sea was by a Female author who's name I forgot. (I read that book 15 years ago.) who put no new evidence forward beyond dr Velikovsky, but used more photographic details.  The Greek mercenaries were in Persian service, but when later they went Turncoat and other collugues did not, the ones that had chanced sides got sun-disk stickers on their helmets, between 2 horns.

The confusion arised because one sees clearly that the same Greek"syrian"-Soldiers are first helping than attacking the invading Phillustins( actually the Persian mariners-in feather-helmets.)because of egyptian bribed alliegian-change during the fighting.

Casual sceptic readers of dr.Velikovsky "Peoples-of-the-Sea" thus feel legitimized to say that they could make heads nor tail out of his narative!

I hope that your recollectiopn is now somewhat more transparant?

Sincerely    "BlueHue"

[Apollo]

Mainstream scholarship has reached the conclusion that the Sea Peoples were not organized and that they were a rabble, mostly conducting random pirate raids.
I disagree ,I think they were guided from afar by the Atlantean warmongers ,and they were very organized and deliberate in where they invaded.

Wonderful, and what do you base this on?

[Mark of Australia]

Lots of assumptions Apollo.... ...That the war between Athens and Atlantis occurred around 1200 BC .Athens is one of the few palatial centres of Greece that survived the Sea Peoples ,and despite that was left virtually derelict according to archaeologists.That fits well with the scenario that has Athens winning the war but her warlike men were in turn destroyed.

So if the Atlantis War is one and the same as the Sea Peoples hostilities of conventional history ,it follows that Atlantis were the leaders of the Sea Peoples confederacy. Athens being the leaders of the opposing side,as Plato said.I am combining Platos story with conventional ancient history.

You don't just wipe out the Hittite capital in a random pirate raid, for starters ,Hattusas is nowhere near the coast of the Med or the Black Sea ,it is a fairway inland ,secondly ,the Hittites were one of the most militaristic of any nation at the time.Anyone who says it is random just is not grasping the ferocity of Hattusas destruction...And then the Sea Peoples swept down through the Levant with Egypt in their sites.All this was after they had laid waste to most of Greece,except Athens,gee what a coincedence. .  I cannot accept that the destruction of these major empires was due to 'random' pirate raids.

Ramses III mentions that the Sea Peoples formed their evil plot in 'their islands' . hmmm  interesting. It is known that some of the tribes were from west of Egypt,the Libyans. again,very convenient.

So that is just a little of why I think that the Sea Peoples were the fighting force of the Atlantean warmongers.

And Apollo, if you didn't know what I was basing it on ,and you weren't just being condescending then you've got a lot of study to do mate.   ... Surely not?   
.I guess you must just hold some other belief concerning the age of the Atlantean war. If so  ,do tell.

[Qoais]

Hi Peoples
Was just having a boo here and thought I'd pop this link in to see what you think:

http://lobsang-rampa.net/ramcave1.html

I don't know if you follow the Tibetan trainings at all, but in his books Lobsang Rampa tells about his life and training for a special purpose in the world.  Highly enlightening.  If you want to scroll down about a third of the way to where he starts talking about the intended trip to the Cave of the Ancients and read from there, it's really fabulous.

The reason I popped this link in here, is because if what Rampa tells is true, then the priest that talked to Solon was a very high initiate and knew whereof he spoke - and it was not quite what Plato told.  It WAS a history, but not of the Athenians at war.  (Plato put that in to please his audience )  The story tells of an advanced society, two sides really, one good, one bad, and how they warred with each other and wiped everything out: about how the earth quit spinning on it's axis for a time, and then resumed spinning in the opposite direction.  How the land was extremely different then, and then how centuries later, the land broke and the Med. was formed.  It tells of pockets of people who managed to survive and about the "Time Capsules" the good guys built to preserve their technology for the future.

[Bianca]

Q:

I am sitting here quite stunned and dazed by what I just read.  It all
resonates with me overwhelmingly, as if I had seen it before and am
seeing now, at present in the world.  The fear sometimes paralizes me,
not for me, but for the world. 2012......karma to be met...again....

[Qoais]

Hi Bianca
I know. 

[Bianca]

Well, Q.  these books are a MUST read.  I just ordered The Cave of The Ancients

and The Rampa Story. 

Thanks for the "Heads Up".


Love and Peace (Emphasis on the PEACE!)
B.

[Qoais]

You're welcome Bianca
Lama Rampa has written a number of books, and if you type in Lobsang Rampa in your search engine, you will be able to read a lot of the stuff on line.

[Apollo]

I was  not being condescending, but nor do I buy the central idea that the Sea People formed the basis for Atlantis, much more is needed.

The Sea People are an interesting and mysterious force in the history of the Mediterranean.  For every reason I can think of to make them Atlantis, I can think of more not to.  And yet, there is just enough there to make one not quite able to write the hypothesis off completely.

However, don't bring Ramses into it, he was a boaster who was bound to have exaggerated his own exploits with the Sea People.  In Egypt, it was common for a Pharoah to carve over the writings of the exploits of his predeccessor, which is why the histories of the Egyptians are not to ever be completely trusted.

[Qoais]

Including the priests Apollo?

[Mark of Australia]

I think the account of the pharaohs concerning events of their time has to be considered as much as anything else.Of course we have to be careful with the boastings of a megalomaniac but there is still info to be had from there accounts.

I do realize though ,that even if the Sea Peoples are influenced by a real Atlantis in some way it doesn't get us any closer to finding Atlantis.So it is pretty trivial either way.It is worthy of some study.

I admit that in my years of study about Atlantis I am now impatient for real evidence.

[atalante]

There are three groups of Sea Peoples who appear in the records of Ancient Egypt. 

Around 1200 BC there is:   1)  the group which invaded Egypt during the reigns of Mernepthah and Ramses III.

But a couple centuries earlier there were also:   2) the Keftiu and 3) their conquored subordinates, whom the Egyptians called "The isles in the midst of the Sea". 

At one point, the Keftiu disappeared, but Egypt remained in communication with the "Isles in the midst of the Sea" for approximately the following century.

The disappearance of the Keftiu seems to be the hieroglyphic counterpart for the destruction of Atlantis.