The Question of Morality (Original)

[Pagan]

Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 08:33 PM                       
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What about the rights of the unborn?? Does it ever occur to you that they should have a say in the matter while you terminate this "unwanted pregnancy"? I would make abortion illegal in every circumstance, rape and incest included. Simply because a woman ends up in that condition doesn't mean that the child should suffer from it. It's God's will that the child was conceived, after all. It should also be God's will that the child be brought to term.
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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   

[Pagan]

Rorie Lafay

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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 08:49 PM                       
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And just who is going to provide for all these unwanted children in your America, Calvin?
"Illegal even in the case of rape or incest," do you even conceive just how horrible those two crimes are? You fundamentalists make me sick.

People like you try to couch their beliefs in religious terms, but it's basically all just about control of women. The male dominated society uses this issue to impose it's sub-human will upon women because it's AFRAID of women. It's the last vestige of control you middle-aged old cretins try to have over the rest of us and you're afraid to let it go.



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Posts: 7 | Registered: Feb 2005   

[Pagan]

Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 09:00 PM                       
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Yet another woman with loose morals. Are there any decent women left in this country today? This all started with "women's rights." Well, women shouldn't have the right to kill their unborn children. Doubtless, you've had an abortion or two yourself, Miss Lafay, else you wouldn't be so defensive about it.
I can't wait until George Bush imposes his God-given will upon all you heathens and makes America moral again.



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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004   

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iwannano
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 09:13 PM                       
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Calvin Noble, Muslims don't want to ruin us , they want to kill us because we don't believe what they do. You just want to put us in jail. When that doesn't work ,what then?
Suppose that there comes a time when "your people" are no longer in power and the new group decides to rid the country of Christians. They won't have to pull a Hitler, they will merely legislate it. Will you be so happy about the power of government then? And contrary to what you may believe , I'll be fighting them too.

Our founding fathers foresaw this. That is why they put into the constitution that congress shall not establish a religion. They did not say that government and religion are separate, in fact they acknowledged their creator. They were also smart enough to know that America was and was going to become a diverse land. They had seen England and its King impose a state religion and that is why they left(among other reasons). Our constitution has worked fine for 200 years but is now in danger from something our forefathers would never have considered. That our once strong, brave , independent and honorable people would become pathetic weaklings who want government to do what they should do themselves and then use religion as their shield.


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Posts: 178 | From: River Ridge, La. USA | Registered: Dec 2004   

[Pagan]

Author  Topic: The Question of Morality 
Ishtar

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  posted 03-14-2005 11:12 AM                       
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He who? Who's talking about who?
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Absonite

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  posted 03-14-2005 11:24 AM                       
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who's on first.


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iwannano
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Rate Member   posted 03-14-2005 04:14 PM                       
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Calvin Noble, Dorian is an atheist. I am an agnostic. He rejects gods existence , I question it. That said, although I know Dorian can speak for himself, neither of us believes in "the devil". It would be immpossible to turn away from what you don't believe in.
I find George Bush to be a honorable man. Although I don't share it I believe his faith is what makes him honorable. What scares me about your comments is you think it is possible to legislate Morality. I'll defend your right to have your opinions and to speak them but I can never support passing laws to regulate morality. Live your moral life, teach your kids your morals, share fellowship with those like you but if I choose to go to hell and I'm not hurting anyone, wish me "bon voyage".


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Posts: 178 | From: River Ridge, La. USA | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged |   
 
Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 03-14-2005 07:28 PM                       
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Iwannano,
The groups that I am affiliated with are already pressuring George Bush into acting in our (and, by that same token, America's) best interests. He owes us for getting him elected, I doubt very much that he could have won the election without us. The seven million Christians that turned out to support him made the difference, and restoring America's moral character is at the very top of our agenda. Bush has a mandate to rule (given to him by us) so he can do whatever he wants. You people will have your morality legistated against whether you like it or not. And it is for your own good, too, you'll thank us for it later. Mark my words, it will be a very different America after these next four years.


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Trent

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   posted 03-14-2005 08:07 PM                       
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Wow, Calvin is a right-to-lifer, who would have seen that coming.
The government has to get out of people's bedrooms. There are already laws passed against morality that borders on criminal behavior. We don't need people like Calvin (who are basically trying to enforce their religious beliefs on everyone else), telling people how they should live their lives.

Is Bush a good Christian..? I always thought it was all an act to woo people like Calvin. Apparently, it's been working from that last bit of wit and wisdom.



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Rorie Lafay

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Rate Member   posted 03-14-2005 09:03 PM                       
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This is a perfect reason for separation of church and state.
Calvin, I loathe people like you: people that want to enforce their own morality on others, as if their own lives were so perfect. In regards to your stand on abortion, I can guarantee you that you would feel a whole lot different about it if you had an unwanted pregnancy.


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Andrew Waters

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  posted 03-15-2005 12:28 AM                       
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Define ''unwanted'' pregnancy Rorie.
Would there be something congenital with the fetus or would it be simply...unwanted?



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Posts: 2639 | From: Akron, Ohio, USA | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged |   
 
Dorian Gray
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   posted 03-15-2005 01:38 AM                       
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 Don't get on your high hat and think you can lecture me on morals, I doubt very much whether you're not in a position to lecture anyone on them.
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I think "missionary" is the perfect position from whence to dispense moral judgements.
And I am against COERCED and FORCED polygamy. Bring your reading comprehension next time. I just don't see anything wrong with polygamy that is NOT forced or coerced.

Calvin Noble:


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 That's just the type of attitude I expected one of your kind to take, Miss Poe. This just goes to confirm my opinion that you are a woman of loose moral character, and so, not to be trusted.
...
I would hate to think how this country's morals would have degenerated all the more had that atheist John Kerry won.
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You were being sarcastic, right? I don't know you that well.

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 You people will have your morality legistated against whether you like it or not. And it is for your own good, too, you'll thank us for it later. Mark my words, it will be a very different America after these next four years.
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Nope, I guess you're serious. That makes you fair game.
Why do you hate the Constitution that this land was founded on? You want to take away everyone's guns and leave us defenseless, and you want us to go back to being ruled by the Pope. What's next - declaring Protestants heretics and torturing and burning them?

Oh, by the way, if GW Bush can now "do whatever he wants", then why the hell does he have to listen to you anymore? He got your vote, and now he is free to abandon you like the loser he has always thought you were. Also, every president has had a "mandate", and none of them has ever legislated morality for anything other than a political reason.

I will close by reminding you that millions of Christians voted for John Kerry too. Your little megalomaniacal control fantasy is very entertaining. It made me laugh while I was having sex with my wives and husbands in our human sacrifice room.


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docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 07:15 AM                       
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You people will have your morality legistated against whether you like it or not. And it is for your own good, too, you'll thank us for it later. Mark my words, it will be a very different America after these next four years.
Dorian,Christians or not, the people made it very clear in the last election, that America is tried of where the country is going in the morality department,especially in light of Clinton`s character.Do you know how how many kids think oral sex is not sex.Even little kids in school were giving candy for the favors.
Considering, we know so much now days about STD. Anyone is really dumb to think a simple condom would stop it. I think we should teach kids of the dangers of sexual abuse and STD, not just passed out condoms and say go to it. I don`t think we should judge anyone`s behavior by death, like they do in some counties, but there is nothing wrong in teaching the old fashion moral values  its takes the people and the people have spoken. 



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iwannano
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 07:40 AM                       
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Calvin , I appreciate your honesty. I vote conservative because I don't want to see a small minority of fringe groups impose their beliefs on the majority. By last census 7 million christians is still considered a minority. Why can't groups like you are associated with demonstrate to the rest of us how wonderful your lives are and let us decide if it is right for us. What do you propose to do , jail me because I don't go to the church of your choice? Why don't you just kill us all who don't believe what you do and reveal yourselves to be no better than the muslim terrosists who are trying to do the same for the same reason? Is that your morality? Does your god say punish those who don't believe in me?
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Posts: 178 | From: River Ridge, La. USA | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged |   
 
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 07:46 AM                       
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The most commom STD affects about 5.5 million Americans each year.
Although genital warts can be treated with medications and surgery, they are a serious health concern. The virus that causes them — the human papillomavirus (HPV) — has been associated with cervical cancer. It has also been linked with other types of genital cancers.
I have know so many women through the years that have cervical cancer,and they wonder where they ever got it from.They say 1 out of every 4 women have it.If anything people should be concern about the dangers of sex with so many, instead of all that is portrayed as harmless on the media shows.


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iwannano
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 01:42 PM                       
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docyabut, STDs are horrible, of that there is no doubt. Teach your children well, don't be afraid to discuss sexual topics. Passing laws won't stop STDs. Giving someone AIDs is murder, that's already against the law but it still happens. What if you didn't know you had AIDs or another STD, then you are an idiot. You know if and when you had unprotected sex so that excuse doesn't wash. Don't blame the media for not censoring itself and don't blame Bill Clinton. I didn't vote for him and still don't like him but I'm not going to blame him for what happens to my family of kids. I talked to each one of my nephews and nieces about Clinton's behavior and in no uncertain terms explained how he was not a role model. Turn off the damm TV if you don't like what your kids are watching. Take responsibilty and educate them yourself and hold them accountable when they make a mistake. You don't need congress passing laws about morality for you to do that.
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Posts: 178 | From: River Ridge, La. USA | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged |   
 
Ishtar

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  posted 03-15-2005 04:18 PM                       
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A gee, wow,um, ok, say ,has anyone read any good books lately? 
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iwannano
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 05:05 PM                       
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docyabut, I am sorry for ranting. I wasn't directing that at you but at the idea of legislating morality. People like Calvin Noble scare me and when I get scared I rant. I agree the morals are declining but I see it more a result of parents trying to friends with their kids than trying to be parents. If people don't want to do what it takes to raise them then don't have them. Making laws regulating morality makes raising your kids my responsiblity, you don't want that and neither do I.
again , sorry for ranting at you
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Posts: 178 | From: River Ridge, La. USA | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged |   
 
docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 05:12 PM                       
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iwannano, yet they are forcing the dangers of cigerette smoking to the health, however as far a STD, its all so hush hush and use protection? 
You know if and when you had unprotected sex so that excuse doesn't wash? When are they going to start really telling the people the truth, that a simple condom is really not a protection, just like with a pregnancy. Any one is really dumb or senseless to think that.
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docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 05:25 PM                       
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iwannano,ranting is ok. I`ve done it enough my self, however I am concern about innocent children and where they going with out the truth.We made raise our kids to moral values, but yet they have to go out in the world with other opinions or options.
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Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 08:13 PM                       
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He got your vote, and now he is free to abandon you like the loser he has always thought you were. Also, every president has had a "mandate", and none of them has ever legislated morality for anything other than a political reason.
I will close by reminding you that millions of Christians voted for John Kerry too. Your little megalomaniacal control fantasy is very entertaining. It made me laugh while I was having sex with my wives and husbands in our human sacrifice room.


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In the first place, Dorian Gray, I would urge you to temper your atheistic-liberal comments for the sake of any children who might be reading this. I suppose that I am the only one here who happens to ever think about them. I don't know you very well either, but I don't like what I happen to see. I have an inkling you're a sodomist given the comments you have just made.

You seem to believe that Bush does not believe as sincerely as many of his supporters do. What this fails to take into account, though, is that we are the ones in control of the Republican Party now and they must please us in order to continue to get our vote. That means that Bush must appoint judges to enact our moral agenda, and pass legislation to insure it as well. As for having a "megalomaniacal control fantasy," we currently control the presidency and both houses of congress. How much more control is needed? Make no mistake, America will enact our moral agenda and become a sound Christian nation again. Your people had their chance to enact their agenda in the last election (doubtless one filled with free abortion, sodomy and atheism), and failed, miserably, I might add. Incidentally, this is not "our" agenda, it is an agenda for the good of America, and that is it.



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Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 08:16 PM                       
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Why can't groups like you are associated with demonstrate to the rest of us how wonderful your lives are and let us decide if it is right for us. What do you propose to do , jail me because I don't go to the church of your choice? Why don't you just kill us all who don't believe what you do and reveal yourselves to be no better than the muslim terrosists who are trying to do the same for the same reason? Is that your morality? Does your god say punish those who don't believe in me?
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First off, Iwanno, I am deeply offended by the equation of people who have strong Christian beliefs with Muslim terrorists. We love America and hate what it has become. They hate America and want to see it ruined. Does our God say "punish those who don't believe in Him?" No, but we see it as our Christian mission to convert those of you who don't believe in Him. We wouldn't be Christians if we didn't care about our fellow man.

As for "demonstrating how wonderful our lives are", we have tried to lead by example and it hasn't worked. For every good example one of us might set, there are just as many very public bad ones: the heathenistic Jackson family, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry. The only way for us to restore America to it's strong Christian character is to impose legislation upon the rest of you so that you come to obey. You will learn to abide by the law of strong moral behavior even if none of you ever come to agree with it.

Perhaps it's too late so save some of you (the sodomists like Dorian), but you will no longer be setting a bad example for the children of this country, as well as their children's children.



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Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 08:17 PM                       
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Docyabut, please let's not dwell anymore on genital warts, this is a family forum. And if it's not, perhaps we should do our best to make it become so, praise the Almighty.
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Rorie Lafay

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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 08:26 PM                       
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Good question, Andrew, 'what is an unwanted pregnancy?'
I would define it as one with a congenital defect, yes, but also one that resulted from a rape or incest, that endangered the life of the mother, happened to a teenager, or anything that occurred within the first trimester of any pregnancy.

Answer your question?

It just so happens to be a woman's right to control her own body. No court controlled by men should have a say in the matter. In fact, no man should have a say in the matter, period. Men aren't the ones to carry the babies, women are.



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Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 08:33 PM                       
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What about the rights of the unborn?? Does it ever occur to you that they should have a say in the matter while you terminate this "unwanted pregnancy"? I would make abortion illegal in every circumstance, rape and incest included. Simply because a woman ends up in that condition doesn't mean that the child should suffer from it. It's God's will that the child was conceived, after all. It should also be God's will that the child be brought to term.
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Rorie Lafay

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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 08:49 PM                       
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And just who is going to provide for all these unwanted children in your America, Calvin?
"Illegal even in the case of rape or incest," do you even conceive just how horrible those two crimes are? You fundamentalists make me sick.

People like you try to couch their beliefs in religious terms, but it's basically all just about control of women. The male dominated society uses this issue to impose it's sub-human will upon women because it's AFRAID of women. It's the last vestige of control you middle-aged old cretins try to have over the rest of us and you're afraid to let it go.



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Calvin Noble

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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 09:00 PM                       
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Yet another woman with loose morals. Are there any decent women left in this country today? This all started with "women's rights." Well, women shouldn't have the right to kill their unborn children. Doubtless, you've had an abortion or two yourself, Miss Lafay, else you wouldn't be so defensive about it.
I can't wait until George Bush imposes his God-given will upon all you heathens and makes America moral again.



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iwannano
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 09:13 PM                       
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Calvin Noble, Muslims don't want to ruin us , they want to kill us because we don't believe what they do. You just want to put us in jail. When that doesn't work ,what then?
Suppose that there comes a time when "your people" are no longer in power and the new group decides to rid the country of Christians. They won't have to pull a Hitler, they will merely legislate it. Will you be so happy about the power of government then? And contrary to what you may believe , I'll be fighting them too.

Our founding fathers foresaw this. That is why they put into the constitution that congress shall not establish a religion. They did not say that government and religion are separate, in fact they acknowledged their creator. They were also smart enough to know that America was and was going to become a diverse land. They had seen England and its King impose a state religion and that is why they left(among other reasons). Our constitution has worked fine for 200 years but is now in danger from something our forefathers would never have considered. That our once strong, brave , independent and honorable people would become pathetic weaklings who want government to do what they should do themselves and then use religion as their shield.


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Posts: 178 | From: River Ridge, La. USA | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged |   
 
Felecia

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  posted 03-15-2005 09:17 PM                       
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Calvin Noble, you impudent little ****ant. How dare you lecture any of us on morals. You Christian fundamentalists, who have usurped the word of God, then turned it into something vile and despicable, have not even the slightest concept of what God is. You selectively choose phrases from the Bible than use them to pressure others, while ignoring others. God loathes hypocrites like you. There is a special place reserved in the afterlife for all the liars, the presumptuous, the ridiculous little fools like you.
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Posts: 123 | From: the Seventh Heaven | Registered: Nov 2004   
 
 

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iwannano
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 09:18 PM                       
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docyabut, you are right to worry about kids going out into the world and being subjected to other peoples opinions. You can do nothing about those opinions so you arm you kids with knowledge of right and wrong and you trust you did a good job. It can work and it does. My sister-in-law and her husband will not let their daughters watch the "Simpsons". The youngest is now 14 and when she visits and I am watching the "Simpsons" she leaves the room until its over or I turn it off. Why, because her parents told her it taught bad morals to kids. It works!!!
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Posts: 178 | From: River Ridge, La. USA | Registered: Dec 2004   

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Jennie McGrath

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   posted 03-15-2005 09:23 PM                       
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Wow. Everyime I see you write something, Calvin, two things come to my mind. First thing: I just can't believe that there are people out there that actually think like you do. But there are, aren't there? You actually have those thoughts. You actually think you're better than the rest of us.
Second impression: I really should have voted in the last election. People like you are dangerous and you really are in control of everything right now. I don't know much about John Kerry, but he had to have been better than you are.



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Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2004

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Aristotle

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   posted 03-15-2005 09:41 PM                       
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For once, I agree with McGrath.
Calvin (Blockhead), do you really think that anyone cares one bit what you have to say, or what your opinion is on anything? You are a blithering on deranged fundamentalist. Your opinion is wholly irrelevant to this forum. Wonderful that you found God, now go participate in a Christian bake sale or something and stop insulting people.

Also, if you have as much pull with George Bush as you say, then make him do something about the price of gasoline. What good are his ties with the Saudi royal family if we're still paying over two dollars a gallon?



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Posts: 357 | From: ancient Athens | Registered: Nov 2004   

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Baphomet

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   posted 03-15-2005 09:53 PM                       
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Calvin, if you truly are a "right to lifer," then please explain to me how your people can bomb abortion clinics (killing nurses and doctors), be for the death penalty and also for the war in Iraq? All those things cause the loss of life, too. Is it all in the timing of such life or something..?
If there is a hell (and I believe that there is  ), I believe that the devil is warming his hands with greed to get his clawed mitts on vain, hypocritical little fools like you.



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Posts: 173 | Registered: Oct 2004 

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Veronica Poe

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  posted 03-15-2005 10:07 PM                       
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Calvin, why do you even still come to this forum? It's clear no one even likes you, and you haven't converted anyone. Take your obscure Bible belt propaganda, stick it up your a**, and then go back to having incest with your teenaged daughter. That's what all you Bible thumpers tend to do in private anyway, isn't it?
Nobody likes you, and you're entirely insignificant to this forum. In other words, GO AWAY!



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docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 03-15-2005 10:38 PM                       
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Calvin, you don`t sound any different then the Islam fanatics, however what I taking about is balance in moral behavior and the risks that are taken in that moral behavior.
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Posts: 7894 | From: toledo .ohio | Registered: Mar 2000   

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Zodiac

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   posted 03-15-2005 10:40 PM                       
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I think Calvin must have felt insulted and left (I could sense him choking back the tears).
Careful, guys, Calvin might take all your names and report you to his new best friend, George Bush. Then, Bush will have you all locked up for having abortions.





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Posts: 260 | From: the Netherworld | Registered: Nov 2004  |

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iwannano
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Rate Member   posted 03-16-2005 06:36 AM                       
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Calvin Noble is an extremist. He believes that he is doing good for us all. He is also honest and upfront about what he believes. Maybe it is because the current political climate has made him feel more comfortable outwardly expressing his opinions. We are now aware of the agenda and can deal with it. But as he and docyabut have both expressed there appears to be a moral decline in our country. Maybe if we haven't had judges and legislators pass laws to hasten the destruction of our moral fiber then people like Calvin wouldn't feel the need for these extreme measures. Our government has , by a process known as incremetalism, given itself more power and taken away more of our ability to do anything about it. There are extremists on both sides. When we sit back and allow any of them to ram their views down our throats, we get what's coming to us. Morals are subjective, as has been said here but rights are black and white unless we allow them to be "interpreted" by those who seek to destroy them.
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Posts: 178 | From: River Ridge, La. USA | Registered: Dec 2004   

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Ishtar

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  posted 03-16-2005 05:12 PM                       
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Well, it is not true that nobody likes Calvin, I don't dislike Calvin, in fact right now I feel a lot of love and compassion for him, , and I doubt very much he is having sex with his daughter,
and no, all christian fundamentalists are incestuous.
That is just out right cruel.

Bap very few christian bomb abortion clinics, they are the crazy few.

Ari I care what Calvin has to say, everyone should. I don't think we should be mean to calvin. I believe he is so upset because he is ridiculed because of his faith.


Finding a common bond would be more fruitful.

As I read through the post I am really shocked and saddened by everyone's mean spiritedness.

How do two wrongs make a right?

If you find what Calvin has to say so repugnant, would it not be better to reach out to him in love.

I don't have words, I just don't know what to say.

How will we as humans ever find common ground ?

And please don't say Calvin started it like a bunch of school children.

Morals , we are talking about morals? How immoral is it to be cruel?

I would be less worried about sex and more worried about how I treat my fellow man.

[This message has been edited by Ishtar (edited 03-16-2005).]


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Posts: 9824 | Registered: Feb 2002  |

[Pagan]

Calvin Noble

Member
Member # 2238

Rate Member   posted 03-16-2005 08:14 PM                       
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Ishtar,
Thank you for your kind words, you are one of the few here who have shown a true moral character.

Iwannono,

The law of God should take precedence over the law of man, and we intend to make sure that the courts begin to rule through the law of God. There is no excuse for things like abortion, infidelity, promiscuity, or even, for that matter, bearing false witness, coveting one's spouse, lying, cheating or dishonoring one's parents. America should be a moral nation and only with a complete makeover of the courts can we proceed. The groups I am associated with will not rest, will not tire, for the sake of our children is at stake. We will not be satisfied until all of America is thinking clean Christian thoughts, leading good clean Christian lives.

We do have a right to invade your bedrooms both to insure the lives of the unborn and to make certain that none of you are engaged in any deviant behavior. Only if America has a strong moral character can America itself be strong. You may see us as extremists, we see ourselves as patriots.

You can label us as you wish, we have a task at hand and the path is clear. With a devout man like George Bush in charge, we have the instrument that will lead America back to it's former greatness once again. Bush, and his successors, will spread the Christian doctrine throughout the Middle East first and then (one hopes) the rest of the world. All of us are soldiers in the cause for the greater good, and it matters not how many wars we fight, how many casualties any of us, or any of you, have to suffer, how many sons and daughters we have to lose in this great moral struggle in the world. Our ultimate cause is to make the whole of the world moral again, and we fight for a greater good.

If a man truly loves his brother, he wants what is best for his brother, and that is the light that guides us. God willing, our brand of Christianity shall be spread throughout the entire world. We will transform all of the Arab extremists into good Christians and they will all turn away from their heathenistic ways. The world will achieve a brotherhood through God. Iraq is only be the first of such many countries to be converted into Christianity. It may be too late to save Europe (especially the godless French), but in the end, mark my words, we will make this a Christian world.



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Posts: 344 | Registered: Nov 2004