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the Giza Building Project

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Catastrophe
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« Reply #120 on: April 08, 2007, 05:55:14 pm »

Quote
Do I have brains YES

Trying to convince someone apart from yourself?

Why do you abhor education?
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Catastrophe
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« Reply #121 on: April 08, 2007, 06:01:55 pm »

Brooke

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I realize that you have some issues with what you see as "pseudoscience."

I have some issues with ignorance.

Wink
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Catastrophe
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« Reply #122 on: April 08, 2007, 06:04:57 pm »

I certainly have issues with anyone who denigrates education.

I don't know any culture that promotes ignorance.

Maybe I am missing something?
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Qoais
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« Reply #123 on: April 08, 2007, 07:46:37 pm »

Missing Something?  You're putting things in that aren't there.  You're being deliberately obtuse and try to twist everything you don't like into insult.  I have not denigrated education.   You have.  You refuse to answer the question about Dr. Davidovits. I said that he also had a PHD and you ridiculed his work with words calling it intellect, but have no proof of a theory to back yourself.  So instead, you twist things to suit yourself, and imply things that were never intended to change the subject, so you don't have to reveal that perhaps you're not as smart as you claim to be.
 
Quote
Trying to convince someone apart from yourself?

What is with this attitude? You asked me what qualifications I have.  I answered you and get a wise ass remark in return.Are you implying that because I don't have a PHD I couldn't possibly be smart? You claim to have de-bunked Dr. Davidovits' theory.  You haven't proved it.  I was using his work as a reference and the next thing I know, you're insulting me and making cheap wisecracks, and diverting attention from the fact that you haven't answered any of the questions.  You refer to books written by people who themselves have been debunked, and that's your answer.   YOU insult people with as much education as yourself, nevermind anyone who doesn't, and think that's clever and smart.
Quote
I certainly have issues with anyone who denigrates education.
Then why are you down on Dr. Davidovits?

Quote
Why do you abhor education?


Where do you get that from?  I have said it many times and I'll repeat since you seem to be a slow learner.  I think an education is one of the most precious things a person can acquire.  I also think it's important to continue educating oneself on an ongong basis.  If one doesn't agree with one opinion, or thinks there's more out there than what one has been taught, one can seek knowledge on their own.  You seem to have an "issue" with that as well.     
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 11:55:36 am by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

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Qoais
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« Reply #124 on: April 12, 2007, 08:36:44 pm »

Here is a bit from a book written by a Tibetan monk regarding the destruction of Atlantis:

Great harm was done to the Earth by the followers of darkness, natural imbalances were created by them.  Thus did these actions bring about the physical fall of Atlantis.
The greatest of these natural imbalances was created by drilling huge holes in the Earth's crust, down to the levels of molten Earth.  The Belialians used the very gross physical forces of the inner Earth to generate their power.  They used concentrated light energy beams (like lasers) to bore great holes in the Earth.  Remnants of them can still be seen in many places.  (notably such as Florida, the Caribbean, and the "Blue Hole of Belize).  Creating their power plants was much like making a series of un natural volcanoesand it resulted in great instability and seismic disturbances.  Even though they were warned of the consequences, the Belialians persisted in this un-natural activity, and caused the Earth changes that destroyed Atlantis.
Before the final destruction of Atlantis, knowing the time, knowing the signs, those of us of the light, went to many other parts of the Earth, in order to continue our work.

During the exodus from Atlantis, many of us followed Thoth (pronounced Toth) to the land of Khem, now called Egypt.  There he built the Great Pyramid, and other temples and places of healing, for purposes of completing our work, initiating the wise, and enlightening the ignorant. 

"Modern Science" has surmised that these great pyramids were built by workers over many, many years, for the purposes of tombs.  However, lacking any real facts from that time, these scientists make great assumptions, and their conclusions are truly un-scientific.  These great structures were in fact built by Thoth, using forces he controlled with the help of the advanced technology aboard his terrestrial airship (a common Atlantean mode of transportation in the days of Atlantis)These vibratory forces could change molecular density, so that the great stones could be made to float in air, just as wood floats in water.  The power generators built by the Children of the Law of One, were very harmonious with nature, in stark contrast with the Belialian methods.  Ther generators were simple pyramids, that harmlessly collected the energy present in the Earth's aura (a frequency of the electromagnetic field - the field that makes a compass point to North)  The power generator pyramids used only crystal and copper capstones, combined with a large peak release collector (capacitor) inside the pyramid.  This allowed "wireless" transmission of the power to any building, or vehicle, including the air borne terrestrial ships such as Thoth's.

The Great Pyramid itself was both a power generator and a center for final stage spiritual initiation, for the Children of the Law of One.  It's great hall was once lined with the painted tablets depicting the stages of spiritual development and initiation that were later to become the Major Arcana of the Tarot. 

Thoth's ship remains, hidden under the Sphinx.  This may yet be found and used by initiates, when it is time and the need arises.  Between the Sphinx and the Pyramid, is buried a chamber that contains the records of our history from the beginning.  This, or duplicate records in the Yucatan, or the ocean, will be found just prior to the great Earth changes that will again rock the Earth on it's axis.
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cleasterwood
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« Reply #125 on: April 13, 2007, 05:12:02 am »

Qoais,
Ok first, let me ask you what is this Monk's name?  What's the name of the book?  And can it be acquired at the bookstore or library?  Although I don't believe everything I read, I collect books on Atlantis regardless of whether or not it's 'scientifically based' and it's always interesting to read versions of the story.  I've so many books my living room looks like a library.  Smiley

Quote
Remnants of them can still be seen in many places.  (notably such as Florida
  I'd like to know where because I live in Florida and have never heard of any of the holes (unless he's talking sink hole) and I'd like to see that for myself!  I do know of the pyramids off the coast of Ft. Pierce though.  Smiley  Also most of what you have posted looks like something Cayce has said before.  Don't get me wrong I love the theory that Tehuti built the pyramid in Egypt.  I even used it in my novel with almost precisely the same ideas (Tehuti led them to Khem from the sinking continent and the GP is place of initiation), but that's fiction so I can do that.  To many this theory is old already.  Another thing I don't understand is why you use the word Khem, but not Tehuti, his Khemetic name (Thoth is the Greek translation of his name, not Egyptian).  To be honest I put more stock in the Sleeping Prophet, but it's only because Cayce was 85% accurate and that's pretty danged accurate for a pyschic.  Sylvia Brown has a high accuracy rate as well and you should hear what she had to say about Atlantis. Smiley

However, your quote above actually debunks the Pyramids were made from concrete theory.

Blessed be,
Lynn
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Qoais
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« Reply #126 on: April 13, 2007, 11:31:07 am »

Hi Cleasterwood
Quote
I've so many books my living room looks like a library.
  Yeah, I just added two more book shelves in my office!  Hubby is nagging for me to downsize - I think I'll chuck HIS books into the living room Grin

Sorry - I thought I'd put up the name of the book - I ordered on-line - The Children of the Law of One & the Lost Teachings of Atlantis - author - Jon Peniel.

Quote
However, your quote above actually debunks the Pyramids were made from concrete theory.
Not necessarily, however, altho I like the logic of the concrete theory I've kind of always leaned toward the "advanced technology" theory for the pyramids.

Quote
Another thing I don't understand is why you use the word Khem,

I just typed right from the book.

The monks and Cayce were both reading from the Akashic record. 



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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

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Qoais
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« Reply #127 on: April 20, 2007, 03:05:55 pm »

http://www.drexel.edu/univrel/media/pyramid.pdf

Above is a link to an excellent site regarding The Great Pyramid of Giza - Evidence for Cast Blocks - Drexel Univ. Philadelpia.

DREXEL UNIVERSITY
Short History
 The Great Pyramids of Egypt were built roughly 5000 yrs ago.
 They are the only remaining of seven wonders of antiquity.
 The established theory of how they were built is that limestone was
carved with rocks and copper chisels and carried up ramps.
 In the early Eighties, Joseph Davidovits came up with the radical
but inspired idea that the pyramids blocks were cast using a mixture
of limestone, clay, lime and water. These ingredients reacted and
formed a concrete that he termed geopolymers.
 His idea was rejected by the Egyptological community because he
did not have irrefutable scientifific evidence.
 Four years ago, A. Ganguly, my graduate student, Dr. G. Hug, a
colleague in France, and I, obtained some stone samples from the
outer and inner casings of the Great Pyramid of Khufu. It took us 3
years, but we fifinally managed to prove beyond a shadow of doubt
that indeed the inner and outer casing stones were NOT natural.
This evidence is technical and is summarized at the end of this
presentation.

DREXEL UNIVERSITY
Current Understanding
 Egyptologists maintain that the entirety of the
pyramids are made of carved stones.
 J. Davidovits claims that they are made entirely
of cast stones.
 In this presentation I will show the pyramids are
actually a hybrid, where the outer casing,
backing blocks - i.e. outer skin - inner casing
and architecture and the top half are probably
cast. I say probably because I do not have
backing block or upper tier samples.

DREXEL UNIVERSITY
Major results of our paper
 The inner and outer casing stones of the
Great Pyramid are not natural.
 The microstructure is consistent with a
reconstituted limestone where the cementing
phase is either silicon dioxide or a Ca-Mgsilicate.
 The starting materials are believed to be
diatomaceous earth, dolomite and lime.
 In other words, some of the blocks must have
been cast in place.


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Qoais
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« Reply #128 on: April 20, 2007, 04:04:14 pm »



Thermal energy storage.

DREXEL UNIVERSITY
Major results of our paper
 The inner and outer casing stones of the
Great Pyramid are not natural.
 The microstructure is consistent with a
reconstituted limestone where the cementing
phase is either silicon dioxide or a Ca-Mgsilicate.
 The starting materials are believed to be
diatomaceous earth, dolomite and lime.
 In other words, some of the blocks must have
been cast in place.


Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms, a type of hard-shelled algae. It is used as a filtration aid, as a mild abrasive, as a mechanical insecticide, as an absorbent for liquids, as cat litter, as an activator in blood clotting studies, and as a component of dynamite. As it is also heat-resistant, it can be used as a thermal insulator.


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Catastrophe
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« Reply #129 on: May 08, 2007, 03:23:42 pm »

In other words there some idiots posting here ...
Not I!
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Qoais
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« Reply #130 on: May 08, 2007, 06:04:02 pm »

Here is the opening paragraph of Guy Demortier's work:

1. The construction with hewn blocks represents an
impossible task
The Cheops’ pyramid, with a volume of
2.7 · 106 m3, was completed over a period of 20–25
years. One can then estimate the average daily
cadence at 300–400 blocks having all an average
volume of 1m 3 (i.e. 750–1000 tons). This represents
one block put at the right place every 2 min.
To achieve this goal, 1m 2 of hewn face would have
been ready every 20 s! What a performance with
tools made of stone or soft copper! Hoisting huge
blocks of more than two tons with rudimentary
means (wheels and pulleys did not exist at that
time) is evidently an impossible task. As several
dozens of those monuments have been constructed
on the left bank of the Nile by the Pharaohs of the
first dynasties, we cannot imagine the average time
of construction of each pyramid to be longer.
When looking carefully at the surface of the
blocks of the pyramid of Cheops (those visible
today and therefore those underlying the casing
blocks, which totally disappeared), one clearly sees
irregularity in the shape (Fig. 1), but a remarkable
close fit of adjacent faces (Fig. 2). It would be
surprising that these blocks could have been so
badly cut but so perfectly joined. This admirable
close fit would have been easier to achieve if the
blocks had been hewn with perfect rectangular
shapes! Furthermore, this care in this optimal
juxtaposition was useless because these blocks
(visible today) were originally hidden under the
casing [1,2].
We can also see that blocks of Fig. 1app ear to
be more porous in the top part than in the bottom
part. This porous feature on the top of the blocks We can also see that blocks of Fig. 1app ear to We can also see that blocks of Fig. 1app ear to be more porous in the top part than in the bottom part. This porous feature on the top of the blockspropose a construction similar to our modern
concrete.
Narrow channels, with a section of 20 cm · 20
cm, starting from the Queen’s chamber and
investigated by Gantenblink’s robot (Fig. 3)
clearly indicate that they were not carved [3].
There is no gap between the two lateral sides
(walls) and the ceiling of this conduit. On a TV
show of the Gantenblink’s expedition, one could
see that no protrude (convex) defect appears in the
walls and in the ceiling of this narrow tunnel.
Irregularities are only of hollow (concave) shapes.
A carving procedure would have given convex and
concave irregularities in equal proportions. When
thinking about a moulding procedure, the apparent
cavities could be understood by some loss of
material during the demoulding.
Many other arguments including (a) the chaotic
organisation of nummulites in the blocks, with
respect to parallel alignment of shells in natural
stones, (b) the high water content (about 13%) of
the whole pyramid measured by the transmission
electromagnetic waves, (c) traces of mortars
mostly at the base of the blocks, play in favour of another way of construction: not natural hewn and hoisted stones but the agglomeration of natural limestone using a binder. . . which contains natron,alumino-silicates and certainly water.
All ingredients have been transported in small quantities,dropped in moulds installed progressively onto or on the side of blocks which were previously moulded.

Pictures corresponding to the above:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/DemortierPic1.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/DemortierPic2.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/DemortierPic3.jpg

2. The chemistry of the binder
In the 70s, Davidovits [1] proposed that the
great pyramids were made of a kind of concrete
whose basic binding element was natron: a sodium
carbonate. Natron was indeed widely extracted
from a region of the North of Egypt, on the left
bank of the Nile, very close to the site of Giza. The
binder is obtained by some chemical reaction giving
rise to a geopolymer (name given by Davidovits
to a class of x-polysialates, x being an alkaline
nucleus, in particular sodium) [4]. Natron, lime
and water form caustic soda, which reacts with
aluminous limestone to yield the basic geopolymer.
A mineral ore containing arsenic (scorodite
or olivenite) is added to produce sodium arsenate
acting as an activating ingredient that could have
been used in various concentrations to control the
speed of the hydraulic setting. The invention is
attributed to Imhotep, the architect of the pyramid
of the Pharaon Djeser.
3. Physico-chemical analyses
In addition to the analyses carried out by Davidovits
with X-ray fluorescence [5] and X-ray
diffraction, which showed that the blocks mainly
consisted of limestone (85–92%), we have also
performed investigations on a little number of
samples from the Cheops’ pyramid: elemental
analysis was performed by ion beam analyses,
PIXE and PIGE and structural characterization
by NMR-spectroscopy.
By using the PIGE–PIXE techniques (proton
induced gamma-ray emission or X-ray emission)
we have determined the elemental content of small
fragments. The light elements F, Na, Mg, Al, Si
were quantitatively determined by using PIGE [6],
and K, Ca, Fe and other trace elements by using PIXE [7]. A small sample from the Cheop’s pyramid
is made of a central compact structure containing
mainly limestone with traces of other
elements (Fig. 4(a)). The outer part (Fig. 4(b))
contains a large amount of F, Na, Mg, Al, Si,
indicating that a material to aggregate the limestone
has been used [8]. The ratios of concentrations
of F, Na, Mg, Al and Si in the coating
relative to the bulk are given in Table 1. Except for
Al, those ratios are much more greater than one,
indicating a complete different structure. The highconcentration of sodium is certainly due to the useof natron for the binder. The PIXE spectra of Fig.5(a) and (b) illustrate the low content of calcium in the coating relative to the bulk. Furthermore, the
significant signal of As in the coating may be
attributed to some additional ore which could be
scorodite as more extensively discussed below. In
addition to PIGE and PIXE measurements which
allow us to have insight to the elemental composition,
the nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy
(NMR) of Al27 and Si29 enables us to
determine the type of synthetic medium (basic pH)
and to differentiate a natural environment (neutral
pH) from an artificial one. We have then fabricated
the binder based on the geopolymer formula
of Davidovits [1]. The NMR-spectra of Al and Si
on this modern synthetic material shows typical
resonances assigned to Si [Si(OSi)4] and Al (tetrahedral)
in this synthesized material which is highly
chemically basic (pH around 10). The NMR
spectra (Fig. 6) of several samples of Cheops’
pyramid indicate that the tetrahedral Al content is10–15% of that obtained for the pure synthetic
mixture reproduced in our laboratory and which
exhibits a very fine adherence with small gravels
(Fig. 4(d)). This value of 10–15% of the NMR
signals is in direct relation with the amount of
geopolymeric binder and, consequently, also relatedto the original water content of the blocks
(Fig. 6(a) and (b)). Si-NMR leads to the same
conclusion.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/DemortierPic4004.jpg

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Bianca
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« Reply #131 on: May 08, 2007, 06:10:57 pm »





Cleasterwood:

Where can I find Sylvia Brown's opinions on Atlantis?

Love and Peace,
B
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cleasterwood
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« Reply #132 on: May 10, 2007, 05:14:35 am »

The book is called "Secrets & Mysteries of the World".  I picked it up from the library but you can buy it on Amazon.com  here:  http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Mysteries-World-Sylvia-Browne/dp/1401900852

Blessed be!
Lynn
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Qoais
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« Reply #133 on: May 10, 2007, 01:57:36 pm »

Bianca
Borrow it from the Library, it isn't worth paying for.  I wasted my money on it just to find it's basically a synopsis of everyone elses theories.  Not a new thing in it.
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

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Catastrophe
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« Reply #134 on: May 11, 2007, 12:13:56 am »

Please show me where the samples are authenticated by a qualified Egyptologist and not illegally 'collected' from a preserved monument.

As I have stated, mortar was used by the AEs and modern repairs have been made. Who collected this sample and from where?

As regards porosity, this is natural:

Quote
The two main variants (of limestone) are 1) porous limestone of an inferior quality, which was used mostly in foundations and the core masonry of walls, 2) harder and better quality limestone, mainly used in visible surfaces, casings and similar. The specific gravity of limestone is 1.7 to 2.6 (porous) and 2.65 to 2.85 (dense)

So once again the proponents of mouldy concrete seem to be blurring the 'facts'.

You seem an intelligent person. Can't you see how all the evidence really stacks up?
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