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the Giza Building Project

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Author Topic: the Giza Building Project  (Read 7769 times)
Dr. Lee
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« Reply #105 on: April 05, 2007, 03:46:12 am »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070330/ap_on_sc/france_pyramid_theory
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cleasterwood
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« Reply #106 on: April 05, 2007, 06:33:38 am »

Interesting.  Water and natron you say?  Well care to explain how a water based cement held up for thousands of years?  Looks pretty iffy if you ask me.
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Qoais
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« Reply #107 on: April 05, 2007, 06:33:48 pm »

Why wouldn't it?  The blocks are massive.  It's sitting on bedrock.  What's to disturb it?
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

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Catastrophe
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« Reply #108 on: April 05, 2007, 11:32:38 pm »

It is extremely iffy unless you need to believe any old rubbish for some undisclosed purpose.
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Catastrophe
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« Reply #109 on: April 05, 2007, 11:54:17 pm »

quote:
the “Davidovits theory” that soft limestone was quarried on the damp south side of the Giza Plateau. This was then dissolved in large, Nile-fed pools until it became a watery slurry”

This is not chemistry it is total trash. Limestone does not dissolve in water and slurries do not make themselves.

Here is some real chemistry:


quote:
Calcium carbonate (limestone) is practically insoluble in water, but in the presence of dissolved carbon dioxide, calcium carbonate dissolves owing to the formation of calcium bicarbonate. On standing this decomposes with the precipitation of calcium carbonate and the production of carbon dioxide. This reaction takes place over very long periods of time and has led to the formation stalactites and stalagmites.


Calcium bicarbonate may be obtained as a flocculent white precipitate when a cold aqueous solution of potassium bicarbonate is added to calcium chloride solution cooled in a freezing mixture On warming the precipitate to atmospheric temperature it decomposes yielding calcium carbonate, water and carbon dioxide.

Strange, I thought it was warm in Egypt

Note that the natural real process produces stalactites and stalagmites not slurries.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 12:03:44 am by Catastrophe » Report Spam   Logged
Qoais
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« Reply #110 on: April 06, 2007, 03:55:20 am »

I can copy from Wikipedia too:

~ Calcium carbonate is the active ingredient in agricultural lime. It is a common substance found as rock in all parts of the world and is the main component of seashells and the shell of snails.

~ it reacts with strong acids, releasing carbon dioxide

~ Calcium carbonate will react with water that is saturated with carbon dioxide to form the soluble calcium bicarbonate.

~ Calcium bicarbonate is many times more soluble in water than calcium carbonate

~ lime·stone (līm'stōn')
n.
A common sedimentary rock consisting mostly of calcium carbonate, CaCO3, used as a building stone and in the manufacture of lime, carbon dioxide, and cement.

~ Most marine limestones (perhaps 90% or more) originate as calcium carbonate skeletal elements of various organisms, including both plants (marine algae such as Lithothamnion and phytoplankton such as coccoliths) and animals (such as corals, clams, snails, and oysters). The larger organisms are broken down into cobble-to-silt-sized sediments by biological processes, such as boring, browsing, and grazing, in the environment. Once formed, these sediments react to environmental processes as do their siliciclastic counterparts.

~ Some limestones and limestone components are formed by direct chemical precipitation from marine and meteoric waters. Most modern, tropical, marine surface water is supersaturated with respect to calcium carbonate. If carbon dioxide is removed from this water by warming, agitation, or photosynthesis, there is a tendency for calcium carbonate to be precipitated.

~ ce·ment (sĭ-mĕnt') - a building material that is a powder made of a mixture of calcined limestone and clay; used with water and sand or gravel to make concrete and mortar

~ In Serbia, remains of a hut dating from 5600 BCE have been found, with a floor made of red lime, sand, and gravel. The pyramids of Shaanxi in China, built thousands of years ago, contain a mixture of lime and volcanic ash or clay

~ The Assyrians and Babylonians used clay as cement in their concrete. The Egyptians used lime and gypsum cement. In the Roman Empire, concrete made from quicklime, pozzolanic ash / pozzolana and an aggregate made from pumice was very similar to modern Portland cement concrete

~ Lime mixed with natron and water produced a third substance, a much more corrosive one, that sparks off a strong chemical reaction and transforms other materials. The water dissolved the Natron salt and put the lime in suspension, forming caustic soda.

~ Caustic Soda is the catalyst Imhotep needed to trigger off a powerful chemical reaction, one which would produce the fast integration of silica and alumina.

~
Quote
slurries do not make themselves

~ Men mixed the ingredients in the canals until a homogenous binder paste was obtained.

~ workers added more fossil shells, limestone rubble and silt from the river Nile, producing a concrete paste

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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

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Qoais
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« Reply #111 on: April 06, 2007, 12:09:40 pm »

Quote
It is extremely iffy unless you need to believe any old rubbish for some undisclosed purpose.

I have no idea what this means.  Why would I NEED to believe anything, and what undisclosed purpose do you have in mind?

No - I don't have a PHD in anything.  Doesn't mean I'm as dumb as a bag of hammers.  Doesn't mean I couldn't have gotten one either, if I would have had the opportunity.
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

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Tom Hebert
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« Reply #112 on: April 06, 2007, 01:22:35 pm »

I like to think of myself as open-minded, but I feel very strongly that this poured-concrete theory is "all wet."  I don't have a PhD either, but common sense would tell you that the scenario of Egyptians pulverizing limestone blocks and then reforming them into limestone blocks again just doesn't add up.  Why would they want to go around their elbows to get to thier thumbs?
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Qoais
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« Reply #113 on: April 06, 2007, 05:50:46 pm »

Logic.  They couldn't quarry and haul those megalithic stones with the equipment they had.  That theory has not been proven.  It has been "accepted" by certain people, but others have shown it can't work.  Therefore, scientists are still working on a theory to prove how it COULD be done.  If it was a totally accepted fact that they did this with the tools they had, scientists would quit trying to find other solutions.  Why would a scientists as reputable as Dr. Davidovits, want to stick his neck out to ridicule, if he didn't feel his theory was feasible?  I say thank God for people like him who have gone the distance, to use his education to extend knowledge and not leave humanity in the dark ages.  He at least shares his knowledge with the common masses. 
Making and hauling cement is hard work - true.  It would have been even harder to make a building with such precise measurements and architectural detail with the tools of the day.  But when you have a crew of 2500 people, (or more), ~ well ~ as others have pointed out ~ that's the human factor involved isn't it?  Look back not so long ago, and you see where people put out fires using a bucket brigade.  Or building dykes with sand bags - passing the bags along a chain of people.  We still do it that way.
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

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Catastrophe
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« Reply #114 on: April 07, 2007, 03:16:13 pm »

Why not stop cutting and pasting things you are not educated to understand.  Anyone here who has any sort of education knows that theory is rubbish

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Catastrophe
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« Reply #115 on: April 07, 2007, 03:19:08 pm »

Just tell us honestly your qualifications ..
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Qoais
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« Reply #116 on: April 07, 2007, 07:05:58 pm »

How many more times do I have to tell you?  What qualifications?  Do I have a PHD?  NO  Do I have brains YES
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

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Qoais
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« Reply #117 on: April 07, 2007, 07:10:58 pm »

Quote
Why not stop cutting and pasting things you are not educated to understand.

Oh EXCUSE me - I didn't realize this forum was for PHD's only.  I AM educated.  I can even read and write.
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Brooke
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« Reply #118 on: April 08, 2007, 12:40:47 am »

Just tell us honestly your qualifications ..


Sorry, Catastrophe, but people don't have to disclose any of their qualifications or any of their other personal details about themselves here if they feel uncomfortable doing so.

I realize that you have some issues with what you see as "pseudoscience."  I have some issues with that sort of stuff as well.  But let's keep the debate fair-minded and friendly, okay? Thanks.

Brooke
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Qoais
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« Reply #119 on: April 08, 2007, 11:24:08 am »

I'm not a scientist Cat.  Are you saying that Dr. Davidovits is not a scientist either?
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
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