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News: Plato's Atlantis: Fact, Fiction or Prophecy?
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Atlantis in Antarctica

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Chronos
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« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2007, 01:16:09 pm »

DDDnD3D, the "Where was Atlantis" topic is in the polls category, which is the last category in the Atlantis section, after "Atlantis in the Media."

Right here:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,473.msg10064.html#new

Alex's theory seems to encompass both Antarctica and lower South America (you have to have seen the special to understand it). Like I said, he was invited here, but hasn't spent a lot of time in forums discussing his theory and hasn't sought out a lot of publicity, so he has largely been unknown until recently.
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« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2007, 10:59:11 pm »

***yeah Chronos. . . thats cool. . . i agree. . . definitely a connection between the southern ANDES & ANTARCTIC . . . a former landbridge existed comparable to the former Bering Strait / Aleutian Islands landbridge . . . & the still existant Panama landbridge between North & South America.   *DDn***
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« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2007, 02:24:09 pm »

000 ECUADOR 000 ........Entrance........ ...............to................ .......Antarctica  ? ................by............... .........DDDnD3D.........**************     With my view from space I see a chain of elliptical formations in the ANDES MOUNTAINS running the length of ECUADOR . . . & Only ECUADOR ! Three of the Ellipses are very evident & are equal in size & shape . . . each approximately 55 miles in lenght !  Three other semi-elliptical formations are partly visible & exhibit similar size & curvature......................*Copyright2006*****DDDnD3D***
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« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2007, 01:09:35 pm »








Atlantis as Antarctica



Ever since the great American horror writer Edgar Allen Poe wrote about a lost city in Antarctica in his `The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym', which appeared in 1838, arguments have raged on whether or not this frozen continent once supported human life.

Although Antarctica is the only major continent that has never produced any evidence of human occupation, it was Professor Charles Hapgood of Keene College, New Hampshire, who first drew attention to the fact that the continent appears on ancient portolans (port to port nautical charts) that long antedate the discovery of Antarctica by Capt. James Cooke in 1773-4. More important, some of these maps appear to show the landmass as it was before the ice obliterated its coastal features. In his opinion, these nautical charts were constructed from age-old source maps that had been copied and re-copied across many thousands of years and were the handiwork originally of a sophisticated sea-faring culture that existed as early as 7000 BC.
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« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2007, 01:12:20 pm »








Hapgood pointed out that although most estimates suggest that Antarctica became icebound as much as 300,000 years ago, core samples from the Ross Sea area show evidence of pollen spectra from a relatively green environment as late as 4000 BC. He also proposes that the ice only fully engulfed the landmass following a polar shift in c. 9500 BC, a date coinciding with the end of the last Ice Age. All these ideas are outlined in Hapgood's extraordinary book Maps of the Ancient Seakings, first published in 1966.

Spurred by Hapgood's theories of a pre-ice Antarctica and a polar shift at the end of the glacial age, Canadian writers Rose and Rand Flem-ath proposed in their 1995 book When the Sky Fell that the Antarctic continent was Plato's Atlantis. They pointed out that this huge landmass matches Plato's description of the island in both the Timaeus and Critias, which he asserts was the size of Libya (North Africa) and Asia put together. Furthermore, Antarctica lies beyond the Pillars of Hercules as also stated by Plato.

Antarctica as Atlantis is an attractive proposition. However, this theory has major drawbacks. For example, Plato states that Atlantis was placed in the Atlantic Ocean which lay opposite the Pillars of Hercules, mythical rocks which stood either side of the entrance to the Mediterranean Sea.

It also seems certain that the legendary island lay in the west since the name Atlantic is derived from Atlas, the Titan of Greek mythology, who was granted dominion over the lands of the Far West. This included the ancient kingdom of Mauritania (modern Morocco, Algeria and the Western Sahara) where we find Mount Atlas, which legend asserts is the petrified Titan supporting the heavens on his shoulders. Those who inhabited the region were known as the Atlantes (after Herodotus) or the Atlantioi (after Diodorus Siculus), while islands placed in the Atlantic Ocean were known as Atlantides, `daughters or Atlas'. It was from this tradition that Plato chose the name Atlantis, `daughter of Atlas', for the utopic world he describes in the Timaeus and Critias, written c. 350 BC. There is even a small island called `Atlantis' said by the Roman writer Pliny to have laid off the West African coast, although this is clearly not the same one alluded to by Plato hundreds of years beforehand.
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« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2007, 01:13:38 pm »







In addition to these facts it can be shown that the immense size attributed by Plato to his Atlantic island empire relates not to its geographical extent but to the regions of the ocean over which the kings of Atlantis were considered to hold dominion. This is verified in the knowledge that the Atlantic Empire consisted of a whole series of islands which lay in front of an `opposite continent', an allusion most probably to the Americas, reached via a series of `other' islands. Accommodating these facts into the Antarctica-Atlantis hypothesis would mean attempting to prove that the `opposite continent' was either Australia or South America, with the `other' islands being those of Indonesia, Melanesia or Micronesia. It just does not make sense (anyway, these are the remnants of James Churchward's lost continent of Mu, and not Atlantis!).

The biggest argument against Antarctica being Atlantis is the sheer fact that no reliable evidence of human occupation has ever come to light, even though the continent really does appear on pre-discovery maps. We must therefore look elsewhere for the true location of Atlantis.




Reading list:


Hapgood, Charles, Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings, 1966, Turnstone Books, London, 1979

Flem-ath, Rand, and Rose Flem-ath, When the Sky Fell: In Search of Atlantis, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, London, 1995


http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/interactive/antartica.htm
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 01:14:19 pm by Bianca2001 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2007, 11:38:24 am »


Atlantis could never had been Antarctica for the simple reason that Piri Reis Map shows a continuity along the American Coast until it reaches Antarctica as one single body, so we know it wasn't an Island before.

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« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2007, 01:11:55 pm »








                                        T H E   O R O N T E U S   F I N A E U S    M A P




Written by Paul Lunde


Whatever one may think of the Hapgood hypotheses, the Oronteus Finaeus - or Finé-map poses questions that are difficult to answer.


Oronteus Finaeus Delphinas—his vernacular name was Oronce Finé - was born two years after the discovery of America. A Frenchman, he taught mathematics at the University of Paris, published a number of important works and was one of the first "modern"cartographers. His careful maps of Europe are models of their kind and superseded all those which had gone before.



Finé's world map, done on a "cordiform" or heart-shaped projection, was drawn in 1531 and published for the first time in Grynaeus' Novus Orbis. Quite apart from its scientific interest, this map is a thing of great beauty. It influenced - both in projection and design—many later maps, including the famous world map of Mercator himself (see page 29). The most striking feature of the Finé map, and the one that particularly struck Charles Hapgood, is its representation of Antarctica. The continent of Antarctica, as is well known, was not discovered until 1820, by seal hunters and neither its true extent nor its major geographical features, including the Transantarctic Mountains, were fully known until as recently as 1957-1958, when the continent as a whole was scrutinized by scientists on the occasion of the International Geophysical Year.
                                 

Yet here is a map, published 426 years before the IGY and 289 years before the discovery of the continent, which fully outlines Antarctica - and even seems to show such features as the Ross Sea, which is normally hidden by great sheets of ice. That this is so can be seen immediately by comparing the reproduction of the Finaeus map with the outline of Antarctica as shown in modern a tlases (see page 29). It is no wonder that Hapgood was amazed, as it is difficult indeed to explain away the similarity between Finé's Antarctica - called on his map, Terra Australis, "the southern land" - and today's Antarctica.   
« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 01:19:19 pm by Bianca2001 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2007, 01:14:19 pm »








Classical geographers, it is true, had hypothesized the existence of just such a southern land, but in doing so they appear to have been led by esthetic - or logical - considerations. Since they knew the earth was a globe and that the land mass to the north was frozen, it was logical that there should be a land to the far south, balancing that to the north. But it is a long way from a general hypothesis such as this to the delineation of a continent.


This is not to deny that there are differences - important differences - between Finé's "southern land." and Antarctica as we know it. The most obvious of these is the distance between the southern tip of South America and Antarctica. In Finé's map the two continents are virtually touching, when in fact they are separated by some 600 miles. He appears to have thought that the "southern land" lay immediately south of the Strait of Magellan and that it was much bigger than it really is.


Furthermore, there is nothing on the Finé map that could correspond to the Palmer Peninsula. If a charitable critic should say that this is because it is partially obscured by sheet ice, and its true outline could not have been visible, then why is the Ross Sea shown - as it apparently is—without ice? And there are smaller differences as well, such as the slightly mistaken orientation of Byrd Land.


On the other hand there is no denying that Tine's "southern land" closely resembles Antarctica - nor the fact that Finaeus had added a Latin inscription that reads: "The recently discovered southern land; it is not yet fully known". 
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« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2007, 01:15:37 pm »








As far as is known, the first cartography to indicate a southern continent was by the great Leonardo da Vinci himself, who depicted it on a globe and the planispheric map made by Francesco Rosselli. Dated to about 1508, the globe shows a vast land below Africa, labelled Antarcticus. In 1515 a southern continent was shown on another globe made by Schoner. But Finé's continent is more exactly drawn than those of his predecessors and in fact - as can be seen from the illustrations - the great Mercator adopted Finé's version of the shape of the continent wholesale, along with a similar Latin inscription: "It is certain that there is a land here, but what its limits and boundaries are is unknown"


One possible explanation appeared in a longer inscription on a map by Cornelius de Judaeis dated 1593. It says that a promontory of this land was "discovered by the Portuguese, but they did not explore the interior. This reference to the Portuguese is interesting, for Finé inscribes a portion of the Antarctic continent, "Regio Brasilis", "the region of Brazil" - which might imply Portuguese discovery.


Furthermore, the coastline that turns eastward on the Piri Reis map - identified by Hapgood with the coast of Queen Maud Land - also bears a curious inscription referring to the Portuguese. It reads: "It is related by the Portuguese that on this spot, night and day are, at their shortest period, of two hours duration, and at longest phase, of twenty-two hours. "Unfortunately, this tantalizing bit of information - which would certainly suggest Antarctic latitudes - is vitiated by what immediately follows: "But the day is very warm and in the night there is much dew".
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« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2007, 01:17:34 pm »



ORONCE FINE'






Put together, those clues suggest that some unknown Portuguese navigator, before 1513, reached Antarctica, mapped part of its northern coast and left only maps as the record of the expedition.


It is a tempting explanation. But it does not, unfortunately, explain warm days and dewy nights in Antarctica, the details of the Ross Sea or the outline of Antarctica as a whole on Finé's map.


Another possibility is that the Portuguese—who occupied Timor, only 285 miles away - may have mapped the northern coast of Australia; it does resemble the far coast of Antarctica. Because of the intense rivalry with Spain, such a map not only could have been kept secret, but most likely would have been. If Finé had a copy of that map his map of Antarctica could have been a composite: of rumored Portuguese sightings of the coast below South America and the secret Portuguese map of the Australian coast. If Finé did combine them, it would account for the otherwise inexplicable - and incorrect—sizeof Finé's Antarctica. This theory would also account for its resemblance to modern maps—there is at least some resemblance between the northern coast of Australia and the opposite coast of Finé's Antarctica - and explain the, inscriptions referring to the Portuguese.


It is, certainly, simpler than Hapgood's hypotheses. But it still involves missing maps and undocumented voyages. Major historical and cartographical problems, therefore, remain unsolved. The mystery is still there.
 


AUTHOR:

Paul F. Hoye, Editor of Aramco World and formerly a reporter and columnist on The Providence Journal, studied Middle East affairs at Columbia University under the Advanced International Reporting Program. Paul Lunde is a graduate of London's School of Oriental and African Studies, and is currently working on Arabic manuscripts in the Vatican Library in Rome.




www.saudiaramcoworld.com
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« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2007, 01:23:03 pm »



Left a modern map, right the one by Oronteus (1531), showing its remarkably accuracy.
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« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2007, 03:22:26 pm »







More about THE PIRI REIS MAP and HAPGOOD here:


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,1506.0.html
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« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2007, 11:40:28 am »








                                           Atlantis Under Antarctica?





After WW II, scientists started to pay close attention to the issue of a supposedly once-existing civilization in Antarctica. The hypothesis is confirmed by some medieval maps and research of paleogeologists and glaciologists.



In January of 1820, Lieutenant of Russian Empire Fleet Mikhail Lazarev discovered a new continent. In the beginning of 20th century, a Russian encyclopaedia, while adducing the approximate square milage of south pole continent, reported that it was insufficiently explored and there was no flora and fauna. The author of the article also mentioned the richness of the algae and sea life.



Twenty years later, the director of the Istanbul National Museum, Khalil Edkhem, was sorting out a library of the Byzantine emperors in an old palace. He found an ancient map made on gazelle skin. On the map, there were the shores of western and southern Africa, as well as the northern shores of Antarctica. Khalil could not believe his eyes: the shores of the Queen Mod Land, to the south of the 70th parallel, was free of ice. An ancient cartographer marked a mountain chain there. The name of the cartographer was known: an admiral of the Ottoman Empire fleet, Piri Reis, who lived in the first half of 16th century.



The map's authenticity was without doubt. Graphology examinations of the notes on the margin confirmed that they belonged to the admiral.



In 1949, a combined British and Swedish expedition conducted intensive seismic measurements of the South Pole through the ice cap. According to the commander of 8th Technical Investigation Squadron of the US Armed Force Strategic Command, Colonel Harold Olmayer, " the geographical details of the bottom part of the map (the shore of Antarctica) correspond with the results of the seismic measurements. We cannot correlate these data with the supposed level of geography in 1513."



In his notes on the map's margin, made in the early 16th century, Piri Reis explained that he was not responsible for the cartography and that the map was based on earlier sources. Some of these "earlier sources" belong to his contemporaries (for example, to Christopher Columbus), while others could be dated to the 4th century B. C. Not later, because one of these sources belonged to Alexander the Great.



Of course, professional historians who specialize in ancient history could say the following: "This is only one more hypothesis. What about documentary and, what is more desirable, trust-worthy sources? The opinion of the Turkish admiral and notes on a margin You know, it is too disputable!"



Therefore, I would like to present the position of the late historian and professor of Keene College in New Hampshire, USA, Charles H. Hapgood. In the late 1959, he found in the Washington Congressional Library a map created by Orontheus Phynius in 1531. Orontheus Phynius depicted Antarctica with mountains and rivers, without glaciers. The relief of the continent's center was not marked, which, according to Hapgood, could mean that there had been an ice cap in that area.



In the early 1960s, Phynius' map was studied by Doctor Richard Stratchen of the Massachusetts Technology Institute together with Hapgood. Both scientists concluded that Phynius had indeed depicted Antarctica free of ice. The characteristics depicted were very close to the information that was obtained in 1958 by specialists from different countries.



Gerard Cremer, known in the world as Mercator, also trusted Orontheus' evidence. He included the Phynius map into his atlas, in which several maps of Antarctica by Mercator himself were also included. There is one interesting feature: on Mercator's map of 1569, the west shore of South America is pictured less accurately than on the earlier map of Mercator from 1538. The reasons for this contradiction are the following: while working at the earlier map, the cartographer of 16th century proceeded from ancient sources, which were not kept for our time, and while working at the later map, he proceeded from observations of the first Spanish explorers to South America. Gerard Mercato's mistake can be excused. In the 16th century, there were no precise methods to measure longitude: as a rule, an error could have been hundreds of kilometers!



Finally, we come to Philippe Boiche, full member of the French Academy of Science. In 1737, he published his map of Antarctica. Boiche presented a precise picture of Antarctica of the time when the continent was free of ice. On his map, the under-ice topography of the continent is presented, about which our civilization had no clear idea until 1958. Moreover, based on now-lost sources, the French academician depicted in the middle of the South Pole a body of water dividing it into two sub-continents, which were situated to the west and to the east from the line, where the Trans-Antarctic Mountains are now marked. According to the investigation in the framework of International Geophysical Year (1958), Antarctic is in fact an archipelago of large islands covered with 1.5-kilometers of ice.



Medieval maps show Antarctica without an ice cap or partially covered with ice. The precision of the 16th century cartographers was very high and even surprising. Their data surpassed the technical possibilities even of the late Middle Ages (for example, the determination of the longitude of a relief within one minute). This level was reached by mankind in the late 18th century, while in some cases, the 20th.



Scientists cannot comment on the high scientific level of medieval cartography. Information from almost 2000-year-old primary sources is supposed to be not well-founded.



Orthodox geology claimed that the age of the Antarctica ice cap was at least 25 million years; however, recently, it has been reduced to six million years.



Therefore, we should notice the following feature of the Reis map: the shore of the continent was free of ice. On the Phynius map, made 18 years after the Reis map, there is an ice cap around the South Pole within the limits of 80th and the 75th parallels. Two hundred years later, academician Boiche depicted Antarctica with glaciers.



The conclusion is obvious: we can see the process of the spreading of glaciers on the southern continent.



In 1949, Admiral Baird's expedition bore holes into the Ross Sea in three spots, where Orontheus Phynius marked river-beds. In the cuts, fine-grained layers were found, obviously brought to the sea with rivers, whose sources were situated in temperate latitudes (i.e. free of glaciers).



While using the nuclear dating method of doctor U. Oury from the Karnegy Institute in Washington, scientists discovered that Antarctica's rivers, which were sources of fine-dyspersated deposits, were flowing as depicted on the Phynius map, about 6,000 years ago. About 4000 years B. C., glacial sediments started to accumulate on the bottom of Ross Sea. Kernels show that before this, there was a long warm period.



Therefore, the maps of Reis, Phynius, and Mercator present Antarctica when the ancient Egyptian and Shumer civilizations were newborn. This point of view is excluded by almost all professional historians and could be regarded as an operating hypothesis that cannot be verified. Any historian would say that there were no civilization of the kind in the late 5th millenium B. C. According to Doctor Jacob Hock from Illinois University, the deposits in-question could be 6 to 12 thousand years old.



In September 1991, US and Egyptian archaeologists discovered at a distance of 13 km from Nile River, in Abidos, 12 large boats that belonged to Pharaohs of First Dynasty. The age of the boats is about 5,000 years. They are believed to be the most ancient vessels in the world, the leader of the expedition, D. O'Connor far, the find is estimated to be aimed for religious rites.



According to Herodotus, ancient Egyptians tracked stars more than 10,000 years ago. This statement of the "father of history" is supposed to be esoteric and, therefore, not true. However, land nations seldom produced astronomers. The fact that ancient Egyptians were interested in astronomy may indicate that they inherited some knowledge from an unknown civilization of navigators.



Workers of US technical intelligence determined the projection center of the Piri Reis map, whose data belongs to 4000 year B. C. The projection center was supposedly situated near today's Cairo. At that time, according to most historians, all then-existing nations were at a very low level of development.



Between the 5th and 10th milleniums B. C., there was a civilization on Earth that possessed great knowledge in the field of navigation, cartography, and astronomy, which was no less advanced than that that of the 18th century.



This civilization preceded our civilization, and it was not an extraterrestrial one. Its age could be several thousands years, while its location was probably on the northern shore of the most southern continent, or archipelago: Antarctica. Later, this civilization may have resettled to the north-east of Africa.



The reason for the death of the civilization was the covering of Antarctica with glaciers. This process started no earlier not than in 10th millenium B. C. It cannot be excluded that there were also large-scale floods, which were regular and cause long-term local deluges (this is confirmed by archaeologists). These disasters could have destroyed most of the civilization's cultural objects. However, some fragments might be found in the future under the thickness of ice. It can also be assumed that the survivors of Antarctica kept and handed down knowledge to the ancient Egyptians.



Therefore, if there will ever be an extensive exploration of Antarctica, mankind will most likely be surprised with the results.



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Translated by Vera Solovieva

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« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2010, 02:50:15 pm »

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