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Atlantis in Antarctica

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Mark of Australia
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« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2007, 08:30:23 am »

I think Hapgood only identified a fairly short length of the Antarctic coastline on the Piri Reis map .

What do you believe about Atlantis Essan?
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« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2007, 11:35:52 am »

What do you believe about Atlantis Essan?

That Plato based his tale on an amalgamation of various places and events - some historical, some just stories even in his time.

The basic premises of a now lost city, or idyll, may have it's origins right back at the end of the ice age, possibly due enforced migrations of people due to climate shifts etc (humans have a habit of longing for the 'good old days' - we even do it today!).  But names, locations and details in his account are all made up or based on contemporary knowledge.  Because his listeners knew only of bronze armour, so his Atlanteans, 9,000 years previously, had bronze armour Wink 
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Andy
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« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2007, 12:45:13 pm »

All,
I wrote the following brief summary from my own research some ago (in another forum) 
Essentially, I feel that Precession of the Equinoxes triggers Crustal Displacement.  Additionally, in line with the current topic, I forward that Antarctica once held a sizable population and was much further north, perhaps by more than 1600 miles, prior to 11500BP. 

I would value your views…

The Season of Change. A re-examination of a Catastrophe.
 
Sometime around 11,500BP  the earths axis changed by as much as 30° and so ended what is described as the ‘Golden Age, a preceding c12000 year stable period. 

I forward that this happened quite suddenly as Precessional swing reaches its half cycle (occurring every c12000 years). This Axis Change  was a sudden event as ‘eyewitnesses’ calling to us down through the ages do testify. However, those ’eyewitnesses’  also tell of significant, sometimes dramatic geophysical events that paved the way before the sudden, end of age, catastrophe finally struck.

What were these precursors to final disaster?   Let me simply and concisely explain a geological order from the available sources I have to hand…

1.   Global warming.
Scientists and archaeologists are now agreeing that a chaotic gradient of climatic change took in the late Pleistocene and are now using these studies to ‘mirror’ the global warming effects that are taking place today.  It is clear that by 11500BP these warming effects was registered in many ways, mostly in tropical fauna spread, animal migrations and land desertification.  We also know that mankind was on the move, migrating,  as sea tables rose and/or with land becoming uninhabitable. This is also the time period when some creditably believe the Giza complex is raised.
There is no easy answer to ‘how’ gradual this pre-historic climatic change was.  However, and probably significantly, the science of dendroclimatology  (looking for climate change in tree rings) do show that study of bogged trees, from the era, recorded striking climate change occurring well within a 50 year period.  Ultimately, the social upheaval this would have caused mankind living in those times can only be summed up by our own contemporary experience of global warming.  Arguably, this is greatest geological killer of mankind we have today, and its on the increase with no sign of reversing.

Note: Global warming has got nothing to do with carbon, methane emissions released by man.  Man’s annual carbon dioxide output into the atmosphere is only c6000 tons, which is little more than that released by one decent volcanic explosion.  Pollution is one thing - Global Warming - quite something else.

2.   Seismic Activity.
Significant Sumerian descriptions of such activity are contained within the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Creation Epic, the Enuma Elish and also from other notable ancient works, such as the Norse saga’s, whose ‘modus operandi’ are the detailed description of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, storms and other violent life destroying events.  Again, we find scientists, geologists and archaeologists bringing to light the deranged topographical nature of Late Pleistocene earth as it was subjected abnormal periods of seismic activity. Again, we find the same academics coming to terms with the dramatic rise in violent seismic activity from the 1980s, when there were 86 earthquakes and now from 1990 through to 1996, when there was more than 150.  The events affecting the Indian Ocean on the 26 December 2004 that wiped out more than  270,000 unsuspecting souls needs no further explanation.

1 & 2 above we can possibly relate to, but what are the other, less definable, precursor Axis Change events to be expected…

3.    Infernal weather change.
As Precessional tilting pressure is forced through the earth’s crust onto the molten mantle the earth starts to brake hard in effort to compensate.  This ‘brake’ is the mantle, upper & lower, straining to increase more pressure on the surface in order to stop it moving. (An act of Gaia?)   As the pressure increases - the mantles metalliferous veins  burst massively through to the surface.  The result is near endless  torrents of hot volcanic ejecta being rained down on huge areas of the earth.  Traditional accounts of this happening are quite graphic; mentioning the ‘burning world’ ‘when the Sun fell down’  ‘The great fire was blazing, roaring over the earth, burning rocks, trees, people, burning everything….’ 

These are not simple memories of  unusually severe volcanic eruptions. These memories are literally world wide, from Europe, to Asia to North & South America.

4.   Tempests.
This is also known as the ‘diluvium venti’ the ‘deluge of the wind’ where the ancients described a ‘wind which has no equal’.   As Gilgamesh explains:  “…six days and a night… the hurricane, deluge and tempest continued sweeping the land” 

We can gather that hot explosive magma gasses are now circulating the globe at an ever increasing velocity.  This is similar, if I may use the comparison, to the catastrophic WWII fire bombings of Hamburg, Dresden and Tokyo.

By now mankind of 11,500 years ago has been decimated.  Survivors are now those who have taken to naturally found  sanctuaries, such as caves, or to ‘pre-known’ regions least likely affected. Meanwhile, the Annunaki of Sumerian fame, and as described by Gilgamesh, have long departed after hastily bestowing their Kingship to man.

5.   Hail from Heaven
Huge amounts of metalliferous debris have now been thrown up into the earths atmosphere:-  the Stratosphere and Mesosphere.  This metallic and molten rock junk, now frozen, falls back, bombarding the earth ceaselessly.  Each one falls with the same critical velocity as a large meteor strike.  ‘Youthful’ and numerous crater strike sites from around the world have long baffled our scientific community leading some to believe that some sort of large planet or comet must have passed our way; depositing their ‘celestial tails’ into the atmosphere.
By now surviving mankind is in deep trauma, victim to ’solar horses’ with erasing the  bare memory of the stable life they once enjoyed.  Few have survived, those who have, begin to eat the animals that share the same shelter as them.

6.    Axis change - the deluge.
The winds and fire abate.  The earth, now dimmed of light, is still - quite silent. Mankind now ventures out onto a landscape dramatically different to the one they knew just a short time ago.  Above them they see the stars starting to shimmer. They are moving.  Night then becomes day, as if in a moment, while the sand under their feet shakes violently.  They fall to the ground as the earth slips some 1600 miles in less than 24 hours. ‘The angry God, Jubmel, has reversed the world’.  They no longer believe they are alive in the same world.  Starving and dying of thirst, they carry themselves to the plains looking for water, while others stay high, too frightened to venture. 

Those on the plains see bright lights across the horizon, it is brighter than the dimmed Sun.  They send scouts to investigate.  What they see is water mountains in the distant. A vast flood is approaching them.  Across the world, the Navajo see the self same phenomena.  They rush back to the sanctuaries. http://www.sacred-texts.com/nam/nav/nol/nol.htm. A Midrashic account tells: “The waters were piled to a height of sixteen hundred miles.  Less exorbitant accounts mention the waters being so great they ‘overtopped the mountains’ The prevailing picture is ‘huge towering walls’ of water.
The Koran tells of Noah’s ark riding on a the crest of huge wave.  These memories go on and on.

Eventually the water walls break, drowning the land, finally extinguishing the still raging infernos. The landscape is now diametrically different.  What was sea is now land, and what was land is now sea.  The Sun starts to break through the dispersing atmospheric clutter and begins to dry the new lands.  Mankind retreats from his sanctuaries onto the drying plains and the new sea shores, which they hope to be benevolent.  Nothing remains of the world they knew just a few short months before.  They start again, hopeful, that their shared memories will be enough to rekindle a civilisation lost.

Summary.
The mean average geological dates of this cataclysm, covering all aspects of tectonic, metrological, hydrological, botanical, zoological points directly to 11500BP.  Accuracy of which  is the difference of + or -  100 years.

What occurred back then has endless ramifications for mankind today if we believe, as I do, that we have entered into another ‘Season of Change’ dictated by the long calendar clock we call Precession of the Equinoxes.  The prolific indications of this are there for anyone to study.  The case, I must mention, has already been made that Global Warming and increased Seismic Activity are already upon mankind.  They are causes of an effect, perhaps a renewal Gaia effect, one that happens every 12000 years.

John.
 




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Mark of Australia
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« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2007, 03:16:36 pm »

Welcome Zeptepi ,

                  only 3 posts !?  that will soon change,

I have had a brief look at your post ,I am really tired, heh .But I just saw the part where you say Global warming is one thing and pollution something else altogether.. ,hooray!

Given the  ridiculous hysteria amongst the public about this Global Warming caper ,I can't help feeling absolute derision toward anyone who firmly believes humans cause Global climate change ,scientist or not.but especially scientists,they should know better than to be idiots.

Any real scientist knows it's got nothing to do with insignificant humans.

Since it has become so political ,so be it .I'm taking sides then, so I am with Zeptepi and any other rational thinker.
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« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2007, 06:20:47 pm »

Hi Zeptepi
I agree with this.  Many years ago, I read an article about the earth having tilted on it's axis, and that somewhere in the near future, it was going to happen again.  (Like maybe in my lifetime Smiley)  The walls of water from the tidal waves would have been higher than the Empire State building.   What had been lush lands, turned to desert, and the desert areas became fertile lands.  I can't remember the date this was supposed to have happened, but I see you've got it figured at 11,500 years.  Makes sense.  Anywhere on earth, where there was a body of water, would have suffered greater damage that interior places.  Even a lake, would have sloshed back and forth with tremendous waves, destroying anything in the vicinity.  I'm thinking of places like the Black sea, Greece, the Greek islands, etc.  That water couldn't run out, so it would have gone back and forth in tremendous waves, washing away all the fertile soil.
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
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« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2007, 01:10:53 am »

Just a short, short reply before I'm off to bed. Been reading this thread for hours (it's 2:07 AM here as I type this) ...

As far as Global warming goes, I suggest you read the Fiction book "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton. It has a very real, very non-fiction bibliography attached to it.



 
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Rush  --> "Freewill"
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« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2007, 05:31:37 am »

Hi Anteros, and welcome to the forum,

Actually Michael Crighton is not to be believed.  First off, he is a well known global warming skeptic, but in the State of Fear book you are referencing, he is actually misrepresenting much of the research printed there.

I assume you are talking about the reference to Antarctica cooling.  Well, parts of it are, but the scientist responsible for the research that led to those conclusions has flatout said that Crighton is wrong in the way he uses it.

Here is an Op-Ed piece that he wrote for the NY Times:

Cold, Hard Facts
 Michael Kupperman

             
By PETER DORAN
Published: July 27, 2006
Corrections Appended


Chicago

IN the debate on global warming, the data on the climate of Antarctica has been distorted, at different times, by both sides. As a polar researcher caught in the middle, I’d like to set the record straight.

In January 2002, a research paper about Antarctic temperatures, of which I was the lead author, appeared in the journal Nature. At the time, the Antarctic Peninsula was warming, and many people assumed that meant the climate on the entire continent was heating up, as the Arctic was. But the Antarctic Peninsula represents only about 15 percent of the continent’s land mass, so it could not tell the whole story of Antarctic climate. Our paper made the continental picture more clear.

My research colleagues and I found that from 1986 to 2000, one small, ice-free area of the Antarctic mainland had actually cooled. Our report also analyzed temperatures for the mainland in such a way as to remove the influence of the peninsula warming and found that, from 1966 to 2000, more of the continent had cooled than had warmed. Our summary statement pointed out how the cooling trend posed challenges to models of Antarctic climate and ecosystem change.

Newspaper and television reports focused on this part of the paper. And many news and opinion writers linked our study with another bit of polar research published that month, in Science, showing that part of Antarctica’s ice sheet had been thickening — and erroneously concluded that the earth was not warming at all. “Scientific findings run counter to theory of global warming,” said a headline on an editorial in The San Diego Union-Tribune. One conservative commentator wrote, “It’s ironic that two studies suggesting that a new Ice Age may be under way may end the global warming debate.”

In a rebuttal in The Providence Journal, in Rhode Island, the lead author of the Science paper and I explained that our studies offered no evidence that the earth was cooling. But the misinterpretation had already become legend, and in the four and half years since, it has only grown.

Our results have been misused as “evidence” against global warming by Michael Crichton in his novel “State of Fear” and by Ann Coulter in her latest book, “Godless: The Church of Liberalism.” Search my name on the Web, and you will find pages of links to everything from climate discussion groups to Senate policy committee documents — all citing my 2002 study as reason to doubt that the earth is warming. One recent Web column even put words in my mouth. I have never said that “the unexpected colder climate in Antarctica may possibly be signaling a lessening of the current global warming cycle.” I have never thought such a thing either.

Our study did find that 58 percent of Antarctica cooled from 1966 to 2000. But during that period, the rest of the continent was warming. And climate models created since our paper was published have suggested a link between the lack of significant warming in Antarctica and the ozone hole over that continent.
These models, conspicuously missing from the warming-skeptic literature, suggest that as the ozone hole heals — thanks to worldwide bans on ozone-destroying chemicals — all of Antarctica is likely to warm with the rest of the planet. An inconvenient truth?

Also missing from the skeptics’ arguments is the debate over our conclusions. Another group of researchers who took a different approach found no clear cooling trend in Antarctica. We still stand by our results for the period we analyzed, but unbiased reporting would acknowledge differences of scientific opinion.

The disappointing thing is that we are even debating the direction of climate change on this globally important continent. And it may not end until we have more weather stations on Antarctica and longer-term data that demonstrate a clear trend.

In the meantime, I would like to remove my name from the list of scientists who dispute global warming. I know my coauthors would as well.

Corrections:
An Op-Ed article on Thursday, about the use of climate studies, included an incorrect date. A study found that part of Antarctica cooled from 1986 to 2000, not 1996 to 2000.

An Op-Ed article on July 27, about the use of climate studies, incorrectly described a San Diego Union-Tribune article that questioned global warming. It was a column written by an editorial-board member, not an editorial.

Peter Doran is an associate professor of earth and environmental sciences at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

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Allison
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« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2007, 05:40:43 am »

I would like to ask everyone to please, please, please, please, don't take all the anti-global warming propaganda at face value!  Don't just get the skeptic side, but dig deeper.  I have had many, many arguments with Merlin about global warming.  He doesn't like it himself, but he has never been able to produce evidence that it isn't the scientific consensus. No one likes to feel we are responsible, but unless we get past that fact, we will never do anything about it.
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« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2007, 12:22:40 pm »

Hi Allison ,  For the record  I am a skeptic of global warming as 'caused by humans'  but what I want to say here is that scientific consensus does not necessarily mean fact.  I guess this brings up all those philosophical arguments about science ,'if everyone agrees it is a fact ,is it really a fact? '    That's the dilemma here.

Because Ice Ages are the major climate phenomenon of this epoch and they are still not understood ,I think it is hasty to conclude anything at this point .

Here is an Aussie article about carbon capture    http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1901661.htm   clik on the link in the page to watch it.

It says that this is the most carbon dioxide there has been in the atmosphere for about 650,000 years.  Ok ,so what happened 650,000 years ago ?  Is it safe to say there wasn't a major industrialisation of the human race back then ?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2007, 12:25:06 pm »

As for Atlantis being in Antarctica , Nonsense , there may have been a civilisation there ,but to call it Atlantis is just silly.
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« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2007, 11:19:30 pm »

Hi Mark,

Scientists simply have the most complete data from the ice cores for the last 650,000 years, and that is what they are going by.  There was no particular event that they are comparing it to. When CO2 rises, heat usually follows (although there is a lag time).  The CO2 PPM are off the charts now, and the ocean temps have risen, causing coral reef to die off and polar bears to lose their habitats.

Here are some photos of how glaciers have been retreating all around the world:



The ice from the melting that is on land (in Greenland and Antarctica) will eventually flood the coastal areas. 

But global warming in itself does not simply mean higher temps, but more violent storms - tornadoes, hurricances, and, in winter, even more violent snowstorms and lower temps!



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« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2007, 12:41:59 pm »

***STACEY*** The April 14 1994 Major Solar Flare Projected Towards Earth *** reminded me of a Series of Major Events that were Transpiring Around this Time !   *JAN.17 1994 A HUGE EARTHQUAKE IN LOS ANGELES   *JUNE 8/9  AN 8.2 QUAKE NORTH OF LA PAZ BOLIVIA 400 MILES DEEP !  [the date & size was actually predicted weeks in advance on & happened Live during the Art Bell Show]   *About the same time in JUNE Richard Hoagland Announces on the Art Bell Show. . . RUINS OF ARTIFICIAL STRUCTURES ON THE MOON  [this was immediately smokescreened the next daze & months by the OJ Simpson scenario?]   *JULY 16-22  COMET SHOEMAKER-LEVY BREAKS UP & IMPACTS JUPITER AS 21 SEPARATE FRAGMENTS   *JULY 20 NEIL ARMSTRONGS' SPEECH AT WHITE HOUSE COMMEMORATING THE 25th ANNIVERSARY OF THE 1st MAN ON THE MOON   *DEC. 94 issue OMNI magazine Cover:  "ALIEN CITY ON MARS"  Hoagland Interview.   ****D3D
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« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2007, 01:12:41 pm »

I'm posting this over here (as well as in the Where was Atlantis topic) because Alex Chionetti is also a proponent of the Atlantis in Antarctica theory, in fact, if memory serves, he claims to have come up with it first:

ALEX CHIONETTI
48 years old.

Born in Argentina.

Moved to Red Bank in 2001.

Returned from March expedition to the caves of Tayos in Ecuador.

Has written freelance articles about other expeditions to the Caves of Tayos; was given artifacts and documents by the late explorer Juan Moricz.

Former executive producer and Los Angeles resident.

Featured in Sci-Fi channel "Quest for Atlantis" documentary for his research and theories.


Chionetti holds a spear he says struck him as he fled from the natives who control the region.



Red Bank writer-explorer has tale to tell on film
Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 04/21/07
BY LARRY HIGGS
COASTAL MONMOUTH BUREAU

 Post Comment
RED BANK — Alex Chionetti doesn't look like Indiana Jones, the fictional archaeologist and adventurer, but Chionetti's experiences, in his quest to explore the ancient Caves of Tayos in Ecuador, could rival the movie character's adventures.

Home after a March expedition, Chionetti is tired from literally running for miles as his expedition fled for their lives, finally leaving behind any extra clothing, gear and a camera so they could outrun their pursuers.

Chionetti, 48, went to Ecuador to document the caves and the civilization that lived in them, and to find clues to a library of ancient writings and scripture thought to be in the caves.

Chionetti, who has participated in a Sci-Fi cable channel documentary about Atlantis and written articles about other expeditions to Ecuador, has collected information about the Ecuadoran caves. He continues the work done by Scottish explorer Stanley Hall, who led the largest expedition to the caves in 1976 with astronaut Neil Armstrong, and Juan Moricz, an Argentinian-Hungarian who explored the caves in 1969.

"The quest for the caves is part of my life," said Chionetti, who grew up in Argentina, moved to Red Bank in 2001 and makes his living doing freelance writing and production work. "The caves are the (Mount) Everest of archaeology. Now, they are forbidden (by local tribes to be visited), and it almost cost me my life."

The caves bear evidence of an ancient civilization that once lived there. There are writings on the cave walls of unknown age, and Chionetti produced photos he took of doorways and arches built inside the caves.

"We calculate it's 12,000 years old. The stones (in arches and doorways) are a perfect fit," he said.

The caves also contain formations of gold, and they are home to the Tayos bird, which is about the size of a falcon. The bird is revered by the native tribes, and navigates by sonar, similar to a bat, he said.

Because of oil drilling and mining in the region, the Shuars (a native tribe formerly known as the Jivaros) don't trust Americans or Canadians, and restrict access to the caves, he said. The Shuars have been known historically for their custom of head-hunting.

"The word I'm associating with Alex is tenacity," Hall said in a telephone interview Friday from Scotland. "He was determined to get some film. Hats off to him."

Chionetti interviewed Hall about his expedition for magazine articles and started gathering information from him for his own expedition, Hall said.

He also interviewed Moricz before his death in 1999 and decided to mount an expedition in his memory, Chionetti said.

His fascination with the caves and ancient civilizations prompted him to go from interviewer to explorer. Hall warned him of the pitfalls.

"I talked with him long about the many difficulties he'd face — and he'd come to realize I was right — on the dangerous and difficult people he'd have to deal with," Hall said.

Hall said he was concerned because he hadn't heard from Chionetti since receiving a letter he wrote during the March expedition.

"He did get in trouble, wrote to me and told me he was being chased out of the area," Hall said. "It's more than a tourist visa and a trip."

Chionetti's first expedition, in October, failed to reach the main entrance to the caves. The most recent, in March, was done with training and help from the Ecuadorian Air Force Intervention and Rescue team, said Chionetti, who financed his expeditions himself with some help from Argentinian television.

The caves, which are thought to be a little over two miles long, are located in the Coangos River area, and his expedition forced him to cross that and two other rivers, the Mongosa and Santego. He had to negotiate with various political factions that control the territories the expedition had to pass through and with the Shuars, who control the area at the mouth of the caves.

To access the caves, the expedition of six people had to set up a tripod to lower people straight down in the cave about 100 meters, or more than 300 feet.

"It is the most fantastic experience to desend into Mother Earth," Chionetti said.

Two Indian guides were left to protect the climbing apparatus from the Shuars.

"The fear is they'll cut the ropes," Chionetti said. "If they cut the ropes, you're gone. There are supposed to be two entrances, one which goes to the river, but no one has found it."

Chionetti took photos and shot film for a documentary he hopes to make. He wanted to stay longer, but the Ecuadorian members of his team got word that the Shuars had a dispute with one of the guides and that their lives were in danger.

The expedition had to move quickly to stay ahead of the Shuars, and they bargained with local officials for passage along the way, trading flashlights and a generator.

Finally making it to the river, the expedition hid in the home of Christian missionary overnight.

"The lady said, "Very bad people are looking for you and want to take your life,' " Chionetti said. "She said, "You remain here, and we'll cross you the next day.' "

No one slept that night; all kept watch, he said.

"I prayed," Chionetti said.

They left at 5 a.m. and crossed the river by means of a basket pulled to the other side with ropes. On the shore, they found the remains of a Shuar encampment, he said.

"If we'd been walking faster and come there hours earlier, we'd be history," Chionetti said.

After cutting the rope, they heard gunshots. They began a marathon race for their lives until they got back to town, where transportation was supposed to be waiting, he said. Because they were late, however, it was gone and they took the bus, riding for three hours to safety, he said.

"I lost one of the tapes that I recorded in the cave," Chionetti said.

Now Chionetti is doing editing and post-production on the documentary, but hopes to negotiate with a network or a show to help with the work. He is working various jobs to finance the project.

Despite the run for his life, Chionetti said he hopes to return to the caves.

"I've gotten a lot of gray hairs in the past six months," he said. "I've got another clue of the real location of the lost library. I'm going back."


 
http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070421/NEWS/704210334
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DDDnD3D
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« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2007, 07:39:48 am »

 *@#Chronos#@* cant find "Where Was Atlantis" topic? i want to respond to the "Ecuador Caves" article but this doesnt seem like the right place? Even tho the the Awesome Andes run the entire length of South America down to Antarctica. Perhaps we can move this to Ancient South America ? or Andes ? or Ecuador?   DD****D
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HUH?


« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2007, 12:42:35 pm »

As for Atlantis being in Antarctica , Nonsense , there may have been a civilisation there ,but to call it Atlantis is just silly.

Then again if they ever found anything there it would be no less special and unique.
Just ask H.G. Wells..... Tongue


Ancient Astronauts.com has a cool story about actual ruins.
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