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the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future

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Author Topic: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future  (Read 6005 times)
Dawn Moline
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« on: June 24, 2007, 10:45:07 pm »



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Author  Topic: the Origins of Love - Past, Present or Future 
Dawn Moline

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   posted 01-02-2005 11:14 PM                       
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the Origins of Love

The idea for this topic arose from HereForNow's thread, "War in Heaven." To start with, we used the the model of the Watchers seducing the Daughters of Cain in the Book of Enoch. The question I first posed was, why were the Watchers first drawn to mortal women, was it lust, as the texts would have us believe, or was it love, as I personally happen to believe?

It could not be simple lust.

An angel, knowing the grace of God, would not sacrifice that grace lightly, and surely a being that is All-Knowing would know that lust is simply a passing fancy. An Angel, not knowing the draw of love, would be seduced and might make such a sacrifice. I also hold that it was not mere beauty alone that led the Watchers astray. There are female angels as well as male, and surely a female angel could become a thing of beauty far more enticing than flesh could ever conceive. I believe it was some inner quality that drew the angels, an element they saw in their creator, an innate human quality. The Watchers fell in love with the daughters of Cain because they sensed, in them, the same human quality they saw in the creator. In other words, their love for the women was the same as their love for their God. Loving the women helped them become closer to God, just as when we love one another we, too, become closer to God.

Love could not conceive of the monsters (giants) such a union at first reproduce, love simply is, it knows no master but itself, and that it enough.

When did love first enter the world? Did Neandertal man have any love for his mate? While the Ice Age hunter/gatherers hunted the Woolly Mammoth, did they do so for love?

From what I can see, love can be said to have first entered the world in one of two ways:

Human beings, descended from the apes, and all our impulses, love included, are nature's trick to get us to reproduce, impulses present in any species.

Human beings, descended from the angels, and the ability to love is of God's gift to us, perhaps our one saving grace amidst a sea of troubles.

Knowing many of you as I do, I think I can imagine which of the two camps some of you might split into. Still, I would like to put a more personal touch on this. I invite everyone to share their opinions, theories, even experiences on the reality of love, no matter how plain or how intimate. I notice many of you aren't using your real names, so there is nothing to conceal, no secret to protect. The only thing that you are protecting is whatever standing you have may have built up in the forum, which, in the final analysis, means very little anyway. I want to judge no one, I wish to understand everyone.

As human beings, I believe it our responsibility to try and gain a greater appreciation of one another. In my opinion, that is the one thing we owe to our past generations, to our children who come after us. No greater understanding can be greater than the one we have of love.


[This message has been edited by Dawn Moline (edited 01-02-2005).]

[ 08-29-2005, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Dawn Moline ] 
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"The unexamined life is one not worth leading."
-Plato

Keri Powers
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2007, 11:52:08 pm »

 
Baphomet

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   posted 01-02-2005 11:37 PM                       
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I think, in speaking of this, we should be careful to separate "love" from "lust." Perhaps the angels lusted after mortal women because they simply were drawn to the idea of sin. Everyone wants to get away with something "naughty," once in awhile. They were forbidden them, and so, wanted them all the more
 
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Keri Powers
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2007, 11:52:41 pm »

Veronica Poe

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  posted 01-03-2005 12:07 AM                       
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The remark about instincts was directed at me, I suppose, but I am hardly going to be the champion of non-love, if that is what you're thinking, Dawn. I believe that true love exists, but I believe it is much more rare than we think it is. As for the Watchers, well, why not lust? Men, included, I assume, male angels, are attracted to the visual. Men are more apt to buy Playboy, buy pin-ups, watch pornography.
I like to believe that, since the Watchers gave so many bad gifts to this world - weapons, warfare, lies and deception, that love was the one good gift they left us.


 
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Keri Powers
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2007, 11:53:18 pm »

bluducky

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   posted 01-03-2005 12:11 AM                       
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The origns of love are as mysterious as the origin of ourselves.
I once heard that "God is love", if that is true, then that is your answer. The mystery lies in both memory and chemical reactions. Combine the two, and you have love, an inescapable feeling of goodness sparked only by the object of your affection.

Regardless of HOW it happens or where it came from, love is the only thing in this world worth having...



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Keri Powers
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2007, 11:53:44 pm »

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   posted 01-03-2005 12:26 AM                       
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True love is rare.
I don't believe that everyone who marries one another actually is knowing true love. I think that, by our very nature, people simply don't want to be lonely and so, as a whole, often make bad and hasty choices. I have friends that are too practical, while others aren't practical enough. As I said, I don't believe that love is non-existent, I just don't believe it's as common as suggested. True love is rare.


 
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2007, 11:54:18 pm »

docyabut
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Rate Member   posted 01-03-2005 05:46 AM                       
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Well I think when the second wave of angels came to help the frist out of the lower vibrations, they also got trapped into selfness. As far as love, even animals love without lust.Its not only a emotion of man.
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Keri Powers
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 11:55:02 pm »

Absonite

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  posted 01-03-2005 07:36 AM                       
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Respected Dawn,

There is another answer as to why these "Watchers" took the daughters of men and it is part of the so-called "war in heaven" and the so-called Lucifer rebellion.
You will remember that the Tree of Life is always a recurring theme in all of these myths or facts. It appears in many of the Sumerian cylinders of Enki and Enlil and Marduk and always shows Adam & Eve. This was a real plant with life extending energy for the dual-circulartory systems of these super-material beings. The so-called Gods. Upon the rebellion of the "Watchers" Van took possion of this "Tree of Life" and deprived the "Watchers" of it's sustanance and life extending properties. They were forced to mate with Earths mortal offspring in order to procreate their progeny. Eventually even Adam & Eve upon their own particular default resorted to the same method of reproduction.

Therefore it was neither lust nor love.


67:4.2 The sixty members of the planetary staff who went into rebellion chose Nod as their leader. They worked wholeheartedly for the rebel Prince but soon discovered that they were deprived of the sustenance of the system life circuits. They awakened to the fact that they had been degraded to the status of mortal beings. They were indeed superhuman but, at the same time, material and mortal. In an effort to increase their numbers, Daligastia ordered immediate resort to sexual reproduction, knowing full well that the original sixty and their forty-four modified Andonite associates were doomed to suffer extinction by death, sooner or later. After the fall of Dalamatia the disloyal staff migrated to the north and the east. Their descendants were long known as the Nodites, and their dwelling place as "the land of Nod."

╩ 67:4.3 The presence of these extraordinary supermen and superwomen, stranded by rebellion and presently mating with the sons and daughters of earth, easily gave origin to those traditional stories of the gods coming down to mate with mortals. And thus originated the thousand and one legends of a mythical nature, but founded on the facts of the postrebellion days, which later found a place in the folk tales and traditions of the various peoples whose ancestors had participated in these contacts with the Nodites and their descendants.

╩ 67:4.4 The staff rebels, deprived of spiritual sustenance, eventually died a natural death. And much of the subsequent idolatry of the human races grew out of the desire to perpetuate the memory of these highly honored beings of the days of Caligastia.

>>>>>>>>


67:3.3 The traitorous Prince marshaled the disloyal midway creatures and other groups of rebel personalities and organized them to execute his bidding, while Van assembled the loyal midwayers and other faithful groups and began the great battle for the salvation of the planetary staff and other marooned celestial personalities.

╩ 67:3.4 During the times of this struggle the loyalists dwelt in an unwalled and poorly protected settlement a few miles to the east of Dalamatia, but their dwellings were guarded day and night by the alert and ever-watchful loyal midway creatures, and they had possession of the priceless tree of life.

╩ 67:3.5 Upon the outbreak of rebellion, loyal cherubim and seraphim, with the aid of three faithful midwayers, assumed the custody of the tree of life and permitted only the forty loyalists of the staff and their associated modified mortals to partake of the fruit and leaves of this energy plant. There were fifty-six of these modified Andonite associates of the staff, sixteen of the Andonite attendants of the disloyal staff refusing to go into rebellion with their masters.

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p067.htm


 
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 11:55:46 pm »

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   posted 01-03-2005 09:43 AM                       
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Dawn,
What a thoughtful question.

Love, in my opinion, is all there really is. And I doubt that we, as human bodies, get more than a tiny glimpse of that feeling.

True love creates - because it is pure, unadulterated energy (light) expanding outward.

Love does not see guilt - it sees through the illusion of guilt. Love is the very essense of reality.

If God is love - and I would be willing to say He probably is - than anything NOT based in love - is not of God - and hence, not real.


 
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Keri Powers
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2007, 11:56:22 pm »

iwannano
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Rate Member   posted 01-03-2005 10:54 AM                       
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Was it only the male angels who loved/lusted after female humans? Why would the female angels not love/lust after human males? Does anyone think females , human or angelic, have the lock on love and virtue. 
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2007, 11:56:53 pm »

iwannano
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Rate Member   posted 01-03-2005 11:05 AM                       
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How does one define love? Is love the same for spouse, children, pets, friends or life in general?
I love my wife, my family and my pets but I couldn't begin to describe the feelings. I feel happiness, joy, sorrow, frustration, anger and can include love in combination with all.


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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2007, 11:57:37 pm »

Tippy
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   posted 01-03-2005 11:10 AM                       
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quote:
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Was it only the male angels who loved/lusted after female humans? Why would the female angels not love/lust after human males? Does anyone think females , human or angelic, have the lock on love and virtue.

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Good point.

Another thing worth considering is how an angel could "lust" in the first place.

Do angels need to eat food to sustain themselves? Do they need to sleep to keep their wits about them? Is their hearing limited to physical "ears"? Do they urinate and defecate as human beings do?

Because if the answer is "no" - then there is also no reason to believe that they need depend on the physical apparatus we humans, possess in our nether-regions to propagate.

And lust is just a chemical reaction in the brain intended to promote procreation.

Somehow, the idea of angels sneaking off and "doing it" seems contradictory.

But that's just me. 

 
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 11:58:08 pm »

bluducky

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   posted 01-03-2005 02:59 PM                       
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In the book of revelation, there is a mention of a tre that the "chosen ones" may eat from during their blissful time in eternity.
If the angels are not much higher than ourselves (according to the bible), and we are to become like them, and then we also have a need to eat of the fruit of this tree, then Yes, Angels DO need to eat, and given that angels have displayed "human" emotions in the past, I would think it quite probable that they could also feel these "urges" that make the flesh so grand.

angels are merely magical human-faeries


 
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2007, 11:58:47 pm »

Tippy
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   posted 01-03-2005 03:43 PM                       
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Angels - human faeries? Goodness. Who would'a thunk it?
I thought I saw a faerie once. I was young and had just chewed upon a weed plucked from the earth.

If I am correct (I usually am  ) the word 'chosen' or 'ejklektov▀' appears only once in Revelations. But I was unaware that they were going to eat anything.

There are truly a lot of angels in that book, though, doing all sorts of things.

Faeries.

That makes me hungry.


 
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Keri Powers
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2007, 11:59:25 pm »

Brig

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Rate Member   posted 01-03-2005 05:12 PM                       
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Angels, as I see scripture, are neither male nor female. There are two types of "love". Well actually in some languages there are six or seven; but being most familiar with english, I have to stay with the two. One is spiritual and the other physical. "God is love" fits the spiritual. It is the more important. The other was intended to procreate; but we have made it into a "lustful sport". Read the biblical definition of "charity", just substitute the word "love" for the word "charity". 
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 12:00:06 am »

bluducky

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   posted 01-03-2005 06:52 PM                       
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Calm down Tippy, I was trying NOT to get caught up in semantics.
In Revelation, there is a tree by the river, the river flows from God etc. Those 'lucky' enough to be accepted into God's perfect world were allowed to eat of that tree.

Speaking of love, it is often difficult to know what one means by 'love', when someone tells you they love you.
(I know this first hand)
What is harder is the words associated with the various levels of love. each level has certain words which must ONLY be used on those levels, and, if you confuse these words.. misunderstandings can easily result...



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