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Poseidon
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2007, 11:18:43 am »



Cape Spartel

The antique commentators did not seem to take to the serious one the dimensions that Plato attributed to the island Atlantide.  Explicit Proclus for us this special point:  "It is necessary here to remember the basic principles of Plato on the earth, to know that it not some measures the magnitude of the same manner that the mathématiciens, but considered that she has bigger range, as the said Socrates in the Phédon, and puts than there is many other places of almost equal stays to our lived earth.  This is the reason it retrieves the existence in the exterior sea, of an island and of a such a extent continent.  Timée:  "This is therefore of your fellow-countrymen of there is nine thousand years that I will discover you briefly the laws" Geology: this date (11 000 years BP.) coincides exactly with the one of the submersion of the two major islands of the archipelago of the Cape Spartel.  The sea attains the coast - 55M about 11 Ka BP.  (Fig.  2) : this is, curious, the exact date advisable by Solon that had not nevertheless no knowledge of the steps of the climbed one back up one glacial finished sea!  This exactness disrupting is maybe pure coincidence, but, it is necessary to recall that, in the corporations without writings, the discount of genealogies is very practiced with examples of lines memorize during more than thousand years in African corporations.  The Egyptians recorded the events and the dynasties since more than 3000 years.  They could strong well to have recorded the genealogical lists of the previous and attained corporations to a chronology at least approached the events.  Timée:  "But, in the time that suivit, it there eut of the frightful earthquakes and cataclysms.  In the space of an alone day and of a terrible nights, all your army was swallowed up at one go under the earth, and of even the island Atlantide s'abîma itself in the sea and disparut.  Here why, today again, this ocean of over there difficult east and inexplorable, by the obstacle of the muddy and very low funds that the island, while swallowing up itself, deposited."  Geology:  Outside of the certainty of an accelerated submersion (4 meters by century) paléodétroit and of his archipelago, contemporary of the swing towards the conditions interglaciaires current, it is not excluded that of the seismic phenomena or tidal waves be themselves products in the same temporal fork as the watches the historic examples.  The earthquake of November 1 1755 (Intensity 10-11 on the ladder of Mercalli), of which the epicenter was submarine, partially destroyed the Lisbon city and released a tidal wave on the quotations Portugueses and Moroccans.  The waves of this tidal wave attained more than 6 meters to Lisbon, more than 5 meter to the Cape St Vicente (SW Portugal) and more than 10 m throughout the Gulf of Cadiz.  Altogether, the Geology proves the reality of a swallowed one up island 9000 years before Plato in front of the Detroit of Gibraltar (the columns of hercules).  Plato sends back for its part to a tradition égyptienne engloutissement of an island in front of the Columns of hercules (the straits of Gibraltar) :  Except improbable coincidence it can himself although these two speeches relate back to a same reality, the one of geological facts proved and vérifiables transmitted by the oral tradition …


http://www.futura-sciences.com/fr/comprendre/dossiers/doc/t/histoire/d/latlantide-et-gibraltar_549/c3/221/p5/
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2007, 11:19:12 am »

The prehistory of the hunters cueilleurs shows conservatisms that imply the transmission of traditions during millenniums.  The European prehistoric art remainder, practically unchanged during more than 20 000 years.  In the cave of the Parpallo close to Valence (Spain), John Clottes, raised the récurrence of unchanging rites during 10 000 years (repeated offerings with 4500 engraved or painted small plates in of the put to bed going Gravettien to the Magdalenian final one).  As the notes this specialist of the rock art:  "These behaviors indicate indisputable manner of the persistence of the same religious tradition on ten millenniums". 



Caves under navies on the bench of the Veyron to Marseilles © Jacques collina-girard All reproduction rights forbids To Canada, one was able to correlate geological events (landslides, volcanic eruptions, drying up of lakes) to the myths of the Indian Gitksans:  The events of which it is question took place between 6000 BP and 10 000 BP.  The Indian ones send back often to a time before or after the flood ("Before the flood" or "Soon after the flood") referring itself to the first population of their territory, liberated ices at the end of the Pleistocene one and at first holocène More close to us, the homère narrative of the Troy war a long time was considered as a myth.  Nevertheless the archaeologists are currently unanimous to admit his historic foundation.  Recent geological studies showed that the reconstruction paléogéographique of the landscapes adjusts themselves exactly to the narrative homérique while that i's has only a distant report with current geography.  Towards the VII century BC, the Bible transcribes oral traditions, echos of historic events vérifiables and probably geological very old facts.  More recently, to the IV° century BC, Plato writes the Timée and the Critias.  Their author, big
traveler, had taken knowledge, in Egypt and in Sicily, of legends and of historic facts on the western pool of Mediterranean and can be regions océanes. 



General view of the cave of Taforalt (Eastern Morocco).  © Jacques Collina Girard - All reproduction rights forbids The cave of Taforalt is a major site to understand the evolution of the prehistoric cultures of the superior paleolithic of the Africa of the north.  To levels "Atériens" (type industry average paleolithique cut by a modern man archaique) that seem to begin towards -100 000 succeed abruptly about 25 000 BP of the levels "iberomaurusiens" (industry of the superior paleolithic to outillage microlithique associated to modern men).  The iberomaurusien finishes about 10 000 B.P and evolves towards the neolithic.  The site furnished many sépultures of the men iberomaurusiens and many pieces of information on their life method.  The searches in this site one resume recently.  These men iberomaurusiens saw the émersion and the disappearance of the islands of the Detroit of Gibraltar If the ethnographie and the prehistory show us the effectiveness of the oral tradition with the peoples without writings and the aptitude to transmit on millenniums to remember it disastrous natural events why will we refuse this possibility to the antique peoples?  Why a tradition of
this type would not have she been able to succeed in the first Egyptian scribes for next to be transmitted to Plato?  Maybe it is necessary to believe the Greek philosopher when it asserts the véracité of his history!  The cataclysm that well unfolded itself to the date and to the advisable place suggest that transmitted information was, can be reliable! 

http://www.futura-sciences.com/fr/comprendre/dossiers/doc/t/histoire/d/latlantide-et-gibraltar_549/c3/221/p6/
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2007, 11:19:57 am »

In the Straits of Gibraltar, the geological history of the island of the Cape Spartel and of his archipelago adjusts itself to the retrieved tradition 9000 years after in the "Timée" : place, dates back to submersion and geography coincide.  The transcription by the Egyptian scribes, after 5000 years of oral transmission, was able to be possible as early as 4236 BC.  This date the one of the first calendar based on the got up héliaque of Sirius, (astronomically dated) and the one of the beginning of the writing hiéroglyphique. 




A visit inside the cave of Taforalt, where the levels cendreux superior correspond to the archeological dépots "ibéromaurusiens" (25 000 BP-10 000 BP) The "myth" atlantide could send back, at least some left for oral traditions, alone witnesses about 9000 BC of the collapse of a world squarely apogee: the one of the hunters of the end of the Paleolithic and of them.  It is true that the alone certainty is that the real geological history of the Detroit relates a "true history" near of the one retrieved by Plato.  Itself it is a question of a pure coincidence or do we touch here to the origin of the myth that would have inherited knowledge, older, oral tradition … The question remains opened!  The Geology notes in any case that, if one looks for a lived island and his archipelago, submerged 9000 years before our era in front of the "Columns of hercules", this island exists well!  This is the bulk of the line of argument of this item that puts the problem of a coincidence enough disrupting, and so far been unaware of, to rest the question of the origin of the Platonic myth …

http://www.futura-sciences.com/fr/comprendre/dossiers/doc/t/histoire/d/latlantide-et-gibraltar_549/c3/221/p7/
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Bianca
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« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2007, 04:37:11 pm »



Thank you for the input, Poseidon!!

Please feel free to add to my posts anytime.


BTW, I may have more to add in "Morocco and East Atlantis" that may be relevant to this
thread. 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 04:41:12 pm by Bianca2001 » Report Spam   Logged

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Poseidon
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2007, 12:35:51 am »

You are welcome, Bianca.  My research was primarily to give Girard his due and to set the record straight on the numerous claims (by Georgeos) of plagiarism. To that, I would like to add a little more:

!    Lorem Ipsum
 
"Jacques indicated that he was aware of Georgeos and perhaps even corresponded with him, but he was also dismissive of Georgeos. Apparently, he considered GD-M a little over the top, but didn't seem overly worried about him."




Atlantis Won't Go Away
   
 
A detailed description of two people who are looking for Atlantis: one, a geologist with a realistic methodology; the other, a pseudoscientist who seems only interested in the limelight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

During a few months in 2003, I found myself caught up in a sometimes-bitter discussion on the Internet in regards to the possible discovery of Atlantis. This discussion began in a forum thread at SciForums.com with someone posting "some archaeological news." The originator of the thread carefully avoided mentioning the word "Atlantis" and, instead, referred to it as the "unnamed city" and other similar monikers.

Well, I like being a little more straightforward, so I didn't have that compulsion to avoid the name of the city. In fact, I began the thread quite skeptical of the "news," which was of the "research" of one Georgeos Diaz-Montexano (a.k.a. Jorge Diaz).

Before I go further, let me point out that my opinion of Atlantis at that point was that it was a myth that popular culture and New Agers cling to like UFOs, BigFoot, the Loch Ness Monster, and psychic energy. In short, I thought then that it was just bunk. Now, I think that Atlantis was very likely a Neolithic or Bronze Age society that existed in a area now submerged by the rise in sea levels at around 11,000 years ago. I don't believe that Atlanteans were an advanced society, but rather one that you would expect for the period. I don't think that there was a sudden "sinking" of a continent, but rather a slow rise in sea level that forced the residents to move to Spain or Morocco. I think it's unlikely that they even referred to themselves as living in "Atlantis," and that this moniker came from Plato.

The Anti-Georgeos Society

But the reason that I believe this new information about Atlantis is one of the reasons I became caught up in the "conspiracy against Georgeos" and became a founder of the "Anti-Georgeos Society!" This was the term used for three members who questioned GD-M's claims.

Let me pick up from the SciForums thread: this discussion began with the title, which it still has, of Some Archaeologic News in a forum for "Human Sciences" such as anthropology and archaeology. The information that was presented for discussion was based on the "research" of Georgeos Diaz-Montexano (GD-M) and had some inconsistencies. First, GD-M made claims of finding some spectacular artifacts and features of an ancient, Bronze-age civilization, which included "smelting factories," "roads," "columns," "chimneys," and a "striker pin" among others. The problem with these claims is that they didn't offer any idea of the context of the finds or provenience of the artifacts. Some random pictures were shown of divers holding artifacts or pointing to underwater features but, curiously, none of the divers had the characteristic tablets for taking notes or making sketches that you expect from those conducting sub-aqueous archaeology. Nor were any grids being delineated by string, PVC pipe, or metal rods as you would expect from serious researchers collecting data for provenience records.

But it was possible that these photos were taken on a separate dive without the research gear or were taken during moments in which the gear was in use elsewhere. As unlikely as that seems, it was possible. But the explanations of how GD-M determined that these features and artifacts full-filled the functions he described were not forthcoming. Many of the links to information that GD-M was willing to release came from his own websites and on the Atlantis Rising website. I was reluctant to post my questions there, initially, as I try to avoid the pseudoscience and New Age websites, but I was hooked, thanks in part to a member of both forums that seemed to stay as impartial as she could. I was also encouraged to respond to some of the negative remarks that arose in regards to another, legitimate researcher.

Enter Jacques Collina-Girard.

Jacques Collina-Girard made headlines with his hypothesis about Atlantis and recent contract with National Geographic that will provide him with the opportunity to test it. Jacques believes that the submerged shoal of Spartel (or Majuan, depending on which side of the Strait of Gibralter you get your maps from) was once above sea level about 11,000 years ago and is the source of Plato's account of Atlantis.

I learned of Jacques Collina-Girard (JC-G) at about the point I was researching GD-M's credentials. In searches for "Atlantis" at the National Geographic website, JC-G's information kept coming up. At first, I dismissed it as another New Age claim and continued my search for information on GD-M. Almost nothing can be found to support that GD-M is qualified to excavate or even identify an archaeological site. His claimed credentials pointed only to membership in several societies, neither of which train or instruct in archaeology and one of which was "founded" by Georgeos himself. I suspect he's one of the few members!

Jacques, on the other hand, still kept popping up. So I started reading his stuff. I even ended up emailing JC-G after noting that GD-M appeared to be bitterly put off by his work and perhaps even jealous. Jealousy was a likely emotion, as GD-M and his "secretary," who was posting information and answering questions on GD-M's behalf, consistently pointed out similarities in their "theories," made wild accusations about legal actions, and actually resorted to ad hominem remarks and comments about JC-G.

Jacques, in his emails to me, was completely the opposite of GD-M. His work, he told me, was based on the discovery a few years ago that the late Quarternary shorelines in the Mediterranean were above sea level. This led him to wonder about the legend of Atlantis and the fact that Plato (the source of the legend) claimed that Atlantis sat beyond the Strait of Gibralter (which he referred to as the Pillars of Hercules). After looking at geologic data, JC-G noted that several shallow shoals were present off of Cadiz, which would have been above sea level approximately 11,000 years ago. This timeframe is consistent with the period that Plato gives. Moreover, the legend of Atlantis is consistent with other legends that began as oral tradition, such as the Flood myths of the Black Sea region.

Jacques indicated that he was aware of Georgeos and perhaps even corresponded with him, but he was also dismissive of Georgeos. Apparently, he considered GD-M a little over the top, but didn't seem overly worried about him.

National Georgeos-Graphic

Interestingly enough, Georgeos also claims to have a contract with National Geographic, but after being questioned about it by myself and a couple other members of the Atlantis Rising discussion board, Georgeos now claims that the contract is with Camino Media. As it turns out, they are, indeed, interested in putting together an expedition to film an exploration of the area and, according to an email that another member received, are looking at who might constitute an appropriate scientific team. This indicates that Georgeos' team is either non-existent or inappropriate.

It was also telling that during one of the discussions that Georgeos had on the Atlantis Rising discussion board, he provided links to several photographs, many aerial, which were allegedly of the Cadiz area and possible sites of excavation for the archaeological remains of Atlantis. Many of the features he described were questionable, and one notable example was a circular feature that was clearly the result of crop irrigation. This and GD-M's failure to use the terminology expected of someone conducting archaeology seemed odd. I asked questions. A lot of them.

All in all, my questions, along with those of at least two other members of the Atlantis Rising discussion forums, prompted some very harsh responses from Maria, Georgeos' "secretary." She consistently referred to us as liars, deceivers, haters, envious, and mentirosos, which is Spanish for slanderer. "Super Anthropologist" she reserved for me, however! Apparently, she read the thread in the SciForums where I mentioned that I was a student of anthropology and archaeology.

A Case Study: pseudoscience versus science.

Overall, the whole Georgeos Diaz-Montexano versus Jacques Collina-Girard argument appears to be a good case study of pseudoscience versus science.

JC-G presents a classic scientific approach by offering a hypothesis supported by previous research and clearly documents his proposed methods to test his hypothesis. It seems very likely that JC-G is right in his hypothesis and whether the region in question is actually Atlantis or not may be secondary to the significance of a possible land bridge for human migration in the region. Artifacts he might find could provide valuable clues to migration and trade patterns for Africa and Europe.

GD-M, however, is marred by all the classic signs of pseudoscience. Pigliucci (2001) provides us with a list from John Casti's Paradigms Lost and Georgeos easily meets these five of the eleven total:

Anachronistic Thinking. GD-M is relying on the "wisdom of the ancients" without accepting that much of what Plato is describing could be loosely based in fact at best or totally contrived at worse.
Seeking Mysteries. It seems obvious that the mystery of Atlantis has taken hold of GD-M and his secretary. The glory and romance that go along with discovery has also lured them. Several mentions about being the next Schleimann (one of the discoverers of Troy) allude to his desire for glory.
Appeals to myths. Again, the idea that the myth of Atlantis is based on some real civilization and that this civilization was far more advanced than possible for the period is prevalent in GD-M's messages and website.
Casual approach to evidence. This is by far, one of the more serious points that GD-M demonstrates. The lack of context and provenience in most of the alleged evidence that he describes in photos and words is telling. In addition, there is little consideration given that these artifacts and features might be of other contexts than a "submerged civilization," such as the fact that the "paving stones" he "discovered might simply be ships ballast. There was a recent admission that the so-called "striker pin," which is supposedly made of copper, may be from shipwreck. Absolutely none of the evidence that GD-M offers is solid or reliable.
A theory is legitimate simply because it's new, alternative, or daring. Several times, Georgeos and Maria made comments about being ridiculed because they are outside the establishment of science or used the "they made fun of Columbus" argument. The "Galileo was persecuted, too" argument was even used.
These and other markers exist that pokes holes in Georgeos Diaz-Montexano's so-called theories. His desire to find fame and glory are reminiscent of Graham Hancock and Robert Bauvel and his ignorance of established methodology and basic understandings of scientific method and reporting is similar to the fictions of Van Daniken. Georgeos would have us all believe that he is a renowned linguist, archaeologist and explorer. This may all be true, but unfortunately, there is no evidence to support it.

References:

Pigliucci, M., 2001. Science vs. Pseudoscience : Where is the Difference ? Found online at : http://www.rationallyspeaking.org

Atlantis Rising Discussion Forum, 2003. We needed the opinion Wise people Erick, Cfeagans and Riven on these Photos. Found online at: http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000759.html

Atlantis Rising Discussion Forum, 2003. For the detractors, envious and enemy of Georgeos Diaz >:-( [sic]. Found online at: http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000754.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~ctfeagans/atlantis.htm
 
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« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2007, 10:07:08 am »

In the Straits of Gibraltar, the geological history of the island of the Cape Spartel and of his archipelago adjusts itself to the retrieved tradition 9000 years after in the "Timée" : place, dates back to submersion and geography coincide.  The transcription by the Egyptian scribes, after 5000 years of oral transmission, was able to be possible as early as 4236 BC.  This date the one of the first calendar based on the got up héliaque of Sirius, (astronomically dated) and the one of the beginning of the writing hiéroglyphique. 
A visit inside the cave of Taforalt, where the levels cendreux superior correspond to the archeological dépots "ibéromaurusiens" (25 000 BP-10 000 BP) The "myth" atlantide could send back, at least some left for oral traditions, alone witnesses about 9000 BC of the collapse of a world squarely apogee: the one of the hunters of the end of the Paleolithic and of them.  It is true that the alone certainty is that the real geological history of the Detroit relates a "true history" near of the one retrieved by Plato.  Itself it is a question of a pure coincidence or do we touch here to the origin of the myth that would have inherited knowledge, older, oral tradition … The question remains opened!  The Geology notes in any case that, if one looks for a lived island and his archipelago, submerged 9000 years before our era in front of the "Columns of hercules", this island exists well!  This is the bulk of the line of argument of this item that puts the problem of a coincidence enough disrupting, and so far been unaware of, to rest the question of the origin of the Platonic myth …
http://www.futura-sciences.com/fr/comprendre/dossiers/doc/t/histoire/d/latlantide-et-gibraltar_549/c3/221/p7/


Dear. . . . POSEIDON  &  Bianca,,

 Cry  POSEIDON or POTAN is actually a word-corruption from RAS(= Pos-)AIDAN(=Port- ADEN in Yemen.)

As you may have read most Atlantologists today agree that Atlantis demise was in 900 bc and not 9.500 nor 10.600 bc,
Besides The whole of Europe thus including Spain was a Colony from Atlantis demise refugies and thus SPAIN was never Atlantis but a mere COPY, The Pictures and explanations on SPARTEL, are intresting though, but it was not the - original- Atlantis !

The CANARY Islands were called les ISLAS -  FORTUNATES by the Romans, they dumped some political prisioners there ! as if in a Roman Siberia !  Islas - Fortunates refers to the greek/ ROMAN Elyseum.

( JULIA - & -I, have discovered that Atlantis is a misreading for: Hatti-Land which is Equal to Hadramaut and thus Atlantis or ( H-)AD-Land is actually ADEN in Yemen. )

Sincerely " BlueHue ". dd. 30 Nov.2007  Cry
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 08:59:15 am by BlueHue » Report Spam   Logged

( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
Bianca
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« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2007, 09:08:09 pm »









                                          Spartel Bank Hypothesis – Rest in Peace



 

Recently Jacques Collina-Girard (University Aix-Marseille I, France) came up with the theory, that an elevation before the Strait of Gibraltar in the Atlantic could possibly be Atlantis.

 

Due to the fact that this location perfectly fits the mostly presumed – jet mistaken! – assumption that the Pillars of Heracles are identical with the Strait of Gibraltar, this theory received a lot of attention. It has to be pointed out, though, that neither the Phoenicians nor the Romans had an idea where to look for these Pillars. According to Tacitus (100 AD) Drus Germanicus was searching them in Germany and Servius (400 AD) concluded: “We pass through the Pillars of Heracles in the Black Sea as well as in Spain.”

 

Apart from that the theory was not at all linked into the historical, cultural or technological background of the Plato account. Consequently, the theory provided for a Paleolithic (Old Stone Age) culture that eventually transferred the story of a sunken island to Egypt.

 

This theory has been reviewed by Marc-André Gutscher of the Université de Bretagne Occidentale. He came up with the following conclusion: It is very likely that the so called Spartel islands already had vanished as early as 12,000 BC. This is way too early to be related to Plato’s account.





Marc-André Gutscher at

International Atlantis Conference,

Milos, Greece, July 12, 2005

« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 09:09:43 pm by Bianca2001 » Report Spam   Logged

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Bianca
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« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2007, 09:11:13 pm »









According to a bathymetric map of the area taken by a series of side scan sonar sweeps the depth of the island indicates that, in relation the general rise of the sea level after the last Ice Age, the island already had vanished. Further, the scans showed no indication of any human settlements whatsoever and finally showed that the island even at its largest extension must have been relatively small.

 
       
 

Spartel Bank Islands Map © Gutscher          Post Glacial Sea Level Rise

 

However, a review of the dynamics of the process revealed, that the island may have vanished a little bit later. Due to the fact that the area is located in a subduction zone Gutscher would allow for it be located a maximum of 40 meters higher than today at earlier times. Hope is not completely lost for the followers of the Spartel Bank Hypothesis because in this event, some remains of the island may still have existed at the time described by Plato: 9,500 BC. Further, the review of Atlantic sediments shows that there had been a major Tsunami in the area at that time not to be seen again, washing some 1.20 meters of sediments as far as 200 kilometers away from the coast.

 

At the conference Gutscher did not commit himself for or against the Spartel Bank Hypothesis. However, as the evidence shows it is unlikely that the island existed in the relevant time at all and if yes, its size and importance would be in no relation to Plato’s account.

 

The evidence will be published in Geology, Vol. 33, No. 8, pp. 685-688.

 

Unfortunately at present it appears that the media interprets this as a confirmation of the hypothesis although in the first place it is a falsification.

 

Prof. Dr. Siegfried G. Schoppe    Christian M. Schoppe

July 19,2005
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« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2007, 09:05:14 am »

Already in 2003 I wrote to the french Science magazine: "  SCIENCES-et-VIE " , and Prof Collina-Girard, at the Universite du Midi-France/Marseilles, that Atlantis were in ADEN, South-Arabia and that the PILLARS of Hercules were the Gates of Bab-el-Mandab, but I never received a comment, nor an answer.  Cry   Cry    Cry
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( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2007, 03:10:39 pm »

Somehow, I am not surprised by that, Bluehue.
Have you tried these ideas on Georgeos?  I have heard that he is very interested in your theories and would like to hear more of them.
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« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2007, 02:50:07 pm »

YEAH, sure,. . . .   POSEIDON,

. . . . . Thank you for the optimistic thought !
' Dear GEORGEOS ' was so eager to ,

avoid conversation with me and my Aden-theory and tendancy to ' debuke ' his  Spartel mudshoal-theory that he asked me to put him off my' mailing-List'.

Yet I wonder, WAS there an ' Atlantis-HYPE ' BEFORE " GEORGEOS "?  Than I'll have to say NO !

By the' professionals' none of whom has been spotted yet as a new-forum member, We are considdered to be puny/ punk, amateur- historians, that's why ' GEORGEOS' could fool us all by devising a sort of Piltdown Man HOAX, pre-setting a nonexistant archaeological find and than awaiting if a gullible forum-member or visiting guest-sucker would fall for it preferably one that does not know anything or too little of marine geology !  ( Like most of us !)

' Georgeos' IS NOT-ONE TO SUFFER FOOLS GLADLY AND NO FOOL HIMSELF, BUT A DARING MAN, WHO DARES TO PROPOSE THAT ATLANTIS WERE an undisturbed  mud-SHOAL in THE MOUTH  OF A  SWIFTCURRENT TIDAL STREAM " in the midst of Gibraltar-Sea-Strait. ".

He wanted us to believe that an Isle that sunk 9.600 years ago  " IN the Atlantic " could be recoverred under some mud at 50 meters depth, whilst at the time of it's " demise" the Sealevel would according to the generative Theory be at 150 meters below Sea-level !

His " Bluff your way into Atlantis in Spain geology"  worked for a spell, but when nobody gave him any  proper comment he saw that his efforts in Mud-shoals promoting was wasted,  so at present without saying it out loud he is busy debuking his own theory.

HOW ?   It takes physically little effort to find the relative passage of KRITIAS line nr 111-b where it says that ATLANTIS was a promotory connected to a beach by a Tombolo,(= Greek: Isthmus.) and jutting out far into the Sea. So no Mud shoal would survive 150 meters of currents !

ABOUT the date which is currently 9.600 / 10.000 bc anyone with a good mind as " Georgeos' has, could see that more than ONE geographical-location-Dates of Plato's are/ were contaminated by a virus that changed  single Cyphers into decimal figures !

CAPTAIN GEORGEOS has steered  his pleasure yacht, on a dangerous Course through muddy waters but now his ship has taken over and he cannot jump ship he has too much invested in it his only recourse is a gracefull acknowledgement of  his-virtual-theoretical-defeat, but he has stamna !

Alas for him, I am not the only one that has doubted his theory thus I can only hope that he was " PULLING  our LEGS " and made the most of it !

For my own Theory of Atlantis -in- Aden I am not pessimistic, several Forum members have allready had the ' insight'; that a Volcanic Kingdom in ADEN(= Jemen Rep.) holds more water than a Mudshoal off Cape Spartel before the Coast of either Spain(= Hispagnola/ Hiberia.) or Morrocco/ Mauretania !    We are indebted to him for starting the currentv ' Atlantis-Hype! '  and we'll hope for the best !possible outcome.

WHAT does bother me is that at the past First ( and LAST.)' World-Conference on Atlantis Location" in 2005 at Melos, non of the current Forummembers when they were still at:"  Atlantisrising.com" or: vvv. Atlan.Org, were invited to participate !  I am sure we as mateurs were considdered too poor to furnish the fare and hotel costs! which is true in my case !

Another thing that boddered me greatly, is that the TELEVISION  company in America:  SCI-FI , made a TV-Programm THIS current year 2007, whereby a number of Atlantis location-Theories were reviewed and  " POTZTAUSEND, " again none of " ourgroup' of amateur historians were invited neither. 

 OH well that's al water under the Bridge, but the past years of humiliation that I had to suffer by my 25 ex-neighbours is very disconcerting, they thought when they heard that I was an Atlantis researcher that I wacetainly mustbe a " Goofy-Explorer"!

Sincerely  " BlueHue    Cry   Cry " dd 12 Dec.2007

« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 02:51:40 pm by BlueHue » Report Spam   Logged

( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
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« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2007, 04:45:36 pm »

Bluehue,

I am very sad that Georgeos reacted in such an uncivil fashion.  I get the feeling that he sees you as "competition" of some sort or another, and, when you tell him your theories, he is quite reminded of his own shortcomings in terms of both his research and logic and feels offended.  Not only that, he may also well be tempted to appropriate such theories and say they are his own.

My suggestion would be not to let this little man tear you down in any way, but to keep on competing with him.  If he is so threatened by what you have done with your research, that is his problem, hardly yours.
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« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2007, 12:25:15 pm »

THANK  YOU   POSEIDON, for your ' support'

the MAIN thing is that I    Cry  am the only one that has a valid explanation WHY ( the -Latin-)" Atlantis'(= Ad-Land in Greek !) cannot be found in presentday Europe: because EUROPE did not exist untill AFTER  Atlantis( First-)DEMISE. Because it was a colony named so by surviving refugies from this Atlantis destruction.. . . . ALSO present-day ATHINI did not exist before 1.000 bc.

The  FACT that PLATO DID refer to ATHEns and EUROPE is simple, because there were an OLDER ATHEns and EUROPE in South-Arabia and Atlantis was the name of the ACROPOLIS of Ras ADEN, which was the name of the Capital, then  named Poseidon-Polis or shorter Poseidonis.    When the colonists reached" Europe" they renamed the 9 existing rivers in Greece after 9 waddies from South-Arabia, thus the -9-Underworld rivers !   Europe of the Greek-invasion, was widespread from England to and included Turkey .

ATHINI means" New ATHEns " and ADANA in Anatolia/ Turkey means :" New-Atlantis"  Grin

Ras Aden litterarly means Isle of Ad( Land.) Ad= white, DEN means ' Land-of-')  So, ATLANTIS or Ad-Land means: WHITE Land the same as in Hindi ATALA means White- Land and PATALA means : HADES or underwater Palce-City.

HADES  or  DIS   and ' Am DUAT'  have affiliations with Atlantis , because Atlantis was the ELYSEUM, or ELISION (= Zion !) of the Latins & Greeks, the latin " Islas-Fortunates"(= Canaries.) situated at the EXTREME  WEST of the Arab peninsula. . . .  When compilers translated the phrase " Extreme WEST" they thought of WEST of ROME instead of WEST from the Meridium/ Meridional pivot  in Arabia.

So I hate to say that dear ' GEORGEOS' and all Atlantologists are barking up the wrong tree, in persisting viewing Europe as ancient Atlantis/ Ad-Land !     Thus America and Malta/ Canaries are also fallacies or pseudo-Atlantisses !     . . . .  Forummembers JULIA  &  SEVENS have quoted all there is to know about the original Ad-Land from the Koran Surats ! in their Threads: " Atlantis in Arabia " & about the " WAR of ATLANTIS " ( dd. 1055-50 bc.)

Sincerely " BlueHue " dd 13. Dec. 2007   Cry
« Last Edit: December 13, 2007, 12:26:04 pm by BlueHue » Report Spam   Logged

( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
BlueHue
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il mio va Piano, sono Asino ?


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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2008, 02:52:07 pm »

Bluehue,

I am very sad that Georgeos reacted in such an uncivil fashion.  I get the feeling that he sees you as "competition" of some sort or another, and, when you tell him your theories, he is quite reminded of his own shortcomings in terms of both his research and logic and feels offended.  Not only that, he may also well be tempted to appropriate such theories and say they are his own.

My suggestion would be not to let this little man tear you down in any way, but to keep on competing with him.  If he is so threatened by what you have done with your research, that is his problem, hardly yours.


Well,........ Dear ............. POSEIDON,


"GEORGEOS "is a good sparring-partner !........... but he declined visiting Athens 2008 Conference  he feels slighted  Cry  Cry  Cry
Report Spam   Logged

( Blue's)THEORY, locating"original" Atlantis( in Aden-Yemen.)
1: ATLANTIS =Fake=Latin name, original Greek: ATHE(=a Region in Aden)
2: Atlantic-OCEAN=Greek: RIVER-of-Atlas+also" Known "World-OCEAN(=Red-Sea)
3: Greek-obsolete-Numeral 'X' caused Plato's Atlantisdate:9000=900
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