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S P A R T E L

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Bianca
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« on: November 12, 2007, 08:45:45 am »









                                                            S P A R T E L





Spartel Bank or Majuán Bank is a submerged former island located in the Strait of Gibraltar at 35°55' N 5°58' W near Cape Spartel, the top currently 56 meters below the surface. It vanished under the surface around 12,000 years ago due to rising ocean levels from melting ice caps after the last Glacial Maximum. It has been proposed as a site for the legendary lost island of Atlantis.
 
 


Spartel Bank as Atlantis hypothesis



The origins of this hypothesis are disputed. It may have been proposed in 2001 by French geologist Jacques Collina-Girard, but a similar hypothesis was first published by the Spanish-Cuban investigator Georgeos Díaz-Montexano in an April 2000 issue of Spanish magazine Más Allá de la Ciencia (Beyond Science), and later in August 2001 issues of Spanish magazines El Museo (The Museum) and Año Cero (Year Zero).

Collina-Girard first published his hypothesis in a September 2001 issue of Science Academy.
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2007, 08:47:37 am »








Collina-Girard's hypothesis





Collina-Girard's hypothesis states that during the most recent Glacial Maximum of the Ice Age sea level was 135 m below its current height, narrowing the Gibraltar Strait and creating a small half-enclosed sea measuring 70 km by 20 km between the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean.

The Spartel Bank formed an archipelago in this small sea with the largest island measuring about 10 to 12 kilometers across. With rising ocean levels the island began to slowly shrink, but then at around 9400 BC (11,400 years ago) there was an accelerated sea level rise of 4 meters per century known as Meltwater Pulse 1A, which drowned the top of the main island.

A possible magnitude 9 earthquake proposed by marine geographer Marc-Andrè Gutscher as occurring in this region at about this time may have contributed to this relatively sudden disappearance by generating tsunamis.

Collina-Girard proposes that the disappearance of this island was recorded in prehistoric Egyptian tradition for 5,000 years until it was written down by the first Egyptian scribes around 3000–4000 BC, and the story then subsequently inspired Plato to write a fictionalized version interpreted to illustrate
his own principles.
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 08:50:13 am »








Further reading





Collina-Girard, J., (2001).-L'Atlantide devant le Detroit de Gibraltar ? mythe et géologie. Comptes Rendus de l'Académie des Sciences de Paris, Sciences de la Terre et des Planètes. 333 (2001) 233-240 available on : http://www.sciencedirect.com

Collina-Girard, J., (2001-2002).-La crise finiglaciaire à Gibraltar et l'Atlantide : tradition orale et géologie. Prehistoire Anthropologie Mediterannees, Tome 10-11, p 53-60

Collina-Girard, J., 2003. La géologie du Détroit de Gibraltar et le mythe de l’Atlantide. Bulletin de la Société Vaudoise de Sciences Naturelles, 88.3: 323-341

Collina-Girard, J., (2004). Atlantide réelle et imaginaire dans le Detroit de Gibraltar. Chapitre III : l'Atlantide face à la Science, pages 110-121 in Atlantides imaginaires, réécriture d'un mythe, Centre International de Cerisy la Salle, Editions Michel Houdiart, Paris.

Collina-Girard, J., (2004).-Du vestige géologique au vestige litteraire, Gibraltar et l'Atlantide , LUKHNOS, Connaissance hellénique, n°100, Juillet 2004, Université de Provence, Aix-en-Provence, pp 9-21
 
Collina-Girard, J., (2004).-La transgression finiglaciaire, l’archéologie et les textes (exemples de la grotte Cosquer et du mythe de l’Atlantide) in : Human records of recent geological evolution in the Mediterranean Basin-historical and archaeological evidence. CIESM Workshop Monographs, n° 24, 152 pages, Monaco, www.ciesm.org/publications/Santorini04.pdf, page 63-70

Collina-Girard, J., (2004). Atlantide réelle et imaginaire dans le Detroit de Gibraltar. Chapitre III : l'Atlantide face à la Science, pages 110-121 in Atlantides imaginaires, réécriture d'un mythe, Centre International de Cerisy la Salle, Editions Michel Houdiart, Paris.

Atlantis in Gibraltar by Collina-Girard (in French)

Díaz-Montexano, Georgeos. (2000). Dossier: La Atlántida en España. Huellas Atlantes en la Península Ibérica. ¿La Atlántida de Platón? Revista "Más Allá de la Ciencia" nº 134 (Mar/Apri-2000) 20-31
 
Marc-André Gutscher. "Destruction of Atlantis by a great earthquake and tsunami? A geological analysis of the Spartel Bank hypothesis" in Geology Volume 33, Number 8, pp. 685–688 (2005).
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2007, 08:54:47 am »







Description



Español:
Estrecho de Gibraltar y Mar de Alborán


English:

Strait of Gibraltar (Morocco and border of Spain as seen from STS-59), image rotated by 90 degree.

The Atlantic Ocean, Straits of Gibraltar, and Alboran Sea (the westernmost portion of the Mediterranean Sea) separate Spain on the left from Morocco on the right.

Algeciras Harbor is the prominent notch cut out of the eastern end of the north shore of the Strait; the Rock of Gibraltar is the tiny arrowhead that separates the notch from the Alboran Sea.

The Sierra Nevada, farther away down the Spanish coast, lives up to its name in this April scene. The difference in elevation between the Sierra Morena and the Guadalquivir River valley is highlighted nicely by cumulus clouds.

Tangier, Morocco can be seen as a light-toned spot on the southern shore of the Strait, near the entrance to the Atlantic Ocean.



Source: NASA
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2007, 09:01:48 am »



A view across the Strait of Gibraltar taken from the hills over Tarifa, Spain








Location

On the northern side of the Strait is Spain and Gibraltar, while on the southern side is Morocco and Ceuta, a Spanish exclave in North Africa. Its boundaries were known in antiquity as the Pillars of Hercules. There are several small islands, such as the disputed Isla Perejil, that are claimed by both Spain and Morocco.


Geology

About 6 million years ago, the Strait closed, effectively turning the Mediterranean into a huge salty lake that eventually dried up, in what is known as the Messinian Salinity Crisis. The Mediterranean then turned into a lake, known as the Mediterranean Sea. At the Miocene/Pliocene boundary, approximately 5.33 million years ago, the Strait opened up for the last time, and has remained open since.


Communications

The Straits are an important shipping route from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic. There are ferries that operate between Spain and Morocco across the strait, as well as between Spain and Ceuta and Gibraltar to Tangier.


Tunnel across the strait

In December 2003, Spain and Morocco agreed to explore the construction of an undersea rail tunnel to connect their rail systems. The gauge of the tunnel would be 1435mm to match the proposed construction and conversion of significant parts of the existing broad gauge system to standard gauge. [
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2007, 09:07:09 am »



Description Mosaic of two astronauts' photographs of the Strait of Gibraltar, with arrows pointing out internal
waves caused by water flowing through the Strait.
 
Source http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=16581
 
Date June 2, 2004
 
Author Earth Observations Laboratory, Johnson Space Center
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2007, 09:11:01 am »








Inflow and outflow



 
Internal waves caused by the Strait of GibraltarOn a net basis, water continually flows eastward into and through the Strait of Gibraltar, due to an evaporation rate within the Mediterranean basin higher than the combined inflow of all the rivers that empty into it. The sill of the Strait of Gibraltar acts to limit mixing between the cold, less saline Atlantic water and the warm Mediterranean waters. The latter are so much saltier that they sink below the constantly incoming Atlantic water and form a highly saline (thermohaline, both warm and salty) bottom water, called the Mediterranean outflow.

A density boundary separates the layers at about 100 m depth. It flows out and down the continental slope, losing salinity, until it equilibrates after mixing at a depth of about 1000 meters. The Mediterranean outflow water can be traced for thousands of kilometers before losing its identity.

Internal waves (waves at the density boundary layer) are common in the strait. Like traffic merging on a highway, the water flow is constricted in both directions because it must pass over a shallow submarine barrier, the Camarinal Sill. When large tidal flows enter the Strait, internal waves are set off at the Camarinal Sill as the high tide relaxes.

The waves—sometimes with heights up to 100 m—travel eastward. Even though the waves occur at great depth and the height of the waves at the surface is almost nothing, they can be traced in the sunglint because they concentrate the biological films on the water surface, creating slight differences in roughness. The waves flow eastward, refract around coastal features; can be traced for as much as 150 km, and sometimes create interference patterns with refracted waves.



www.wikipedia.com
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2007, 11:13:49 am »

Great thread, Bianca, allow me to add the information that I had in my thread in it:
Atlantis Rises Again

Location is everything, and perhaps no location has been more debated than that of the legendary island of Atlantis. Now a scientist is arguing that a submerged landmass off the West African coast has a geological history that fits well with the first written accounts of the island.


 
Sinking feeling. The time line of events on Spartel Island according to Collina-Girard. By around 12,000 years ago, the island would have been almost completely submerged.

CREDIT: Marc-Andrè Gutscher
 

    Like a very long game of telephone, the Atlantis story was orally passed down for 9000 years before Plato immortalized it in writing. "There occurred violent earthquakes and floods," he wrote. "And in a single day ... the island ... disappeared in the depths of the sea." Plato reports Atlantis sat off the coast of North Western Africa, sank 12,000 years ago, and was inhabited by an advanced civilization. Since Plato's time, scholars and nonscholars alike have claimed to have deciphered the location of the lost continent. One popular theory suggests that Atlantis was in Greece and perished by volcanic eruption 3500 years ago. Yet, Plato never reported volcanic ash; plus, the location and timing are off.

     A sunken land mass suggested to be Atlantis in 2001 by geologist Jacques Collina-Girard of University of Aix en Provence in France also seemed a promising candidate because of its location off the northwest coast of Africa. His work indicated that the island, known as Spartel, sunk slowly under the rising sea levels of a melting ice age starting 20,000 years ago and that by 12,000 years ago it was less than 500 meters across. But this timing and gradual sinking also does not resemble Plato's account.
Now an analysis by marine geologist Marc-Andrè Gutscher of the University of Brest, France, may give new life to the Spartel hypothesis. At first, Gutscher's work seemed to discount the Spartel-Atlantis connection. A high resolution map he made with sonar indicated that the island was even smaller than Collina-Girard had speculated, meaning it would have been uninhabitable as long as 14,000 years ago.

But sediment gathered by Gutscher tells a different story. A magnitude 9 earthquake appears to have rocked the region around the believed time of Atlantis' doom, Gutscher reports in the August issue of Geology. At that time, the island would have been big enough to be inhabited. He also found evidence of subsequent earthquakes and tsunami's--apparently every 2000 years--that may have whittled the rest of the island away.

Did people live there? So far, Gutscher has found no evidence to support an ancient culture. "I will admit I was hoping to find concentric structures or walls of some kind," he says, "but we didn't"

The study provides more support for Plato's writings, says geoarchaeologist Renee Hetherington of the University of Victoria in Canada. But hard proof such as artifacts or structures needs to be found to confirm that a society actually inhabited this island, she says.

--GENEVRA ORNELAS
http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2005/722/1




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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2007, 11:14:21 am »

July 22, 2005

Seafloor survey buoys Atlantis claim
Earthquake debris shores up evidence for lost city.
by Andreas von Bubnoff
news@nature.com


"There occurred violent earthquakes and floods. And in a single day and night of misfortune... the island of Atlantis disappeared in the depths of the sea."

This account, written by Plato more than 2,300 years ago, set scientists on the trail of the lost city of Atlantis. Did it ever exist? And if so, where was it located, and when did it disappear?

In a recent paper in Geology, Marc-Andre Gutscher of the European Institute for Marine Studies in Plouzané gives details of one candidate for the lost city: the submerged island of Spartel, west of the Straits of Gibraltar.

The top of this isle lies some 60 metres beneath the surface in the Gulf of Cadiz, having plunged beneath the waves at the end of the most recent ice age as melting glaciers caused the sea level to rise.

Geological evidence has shown that a large earthquake and a tsunami hit this island some 12,000 years ago, at roughly the location and time indicated in Plato's writings.

Gutscher has surveyed this island in detail, using sound waves reflected off the sea floor to map its contours. His results bring mixed news to Atlantis hunters.

Ups and downs

“With the information we have from the ancient text, it may never be found, if indeed it ever existed.”
Floyd McCoy, geologist
University of Hawaii, Kaneohe

At first, his conclusions seemed disappointing. At the time identified by Plato for the city's loss, the sea level would have been fairly high on the island's banks.

According to sea-level measurements alone, Gutscher estimates the island "would have been reduced to wave-swept rocky islets" and would have been less than 500 metres in diameter, making it impossibly small for a sophisticated city.

But there is a saving grace. Gutscher says the island might have sunk further since those times from seismic activity.

Layers of turbidite, the sand and mud shaken up by underwater avalanches, suggest that eight earthquakes have happened in the area since Atlantis sank. Each earthquake could have resulted in a drop of the sea floor by several metres.

So 12,000 years ago, Spartel might have been 40 metres higher than expected, and could have measured five by two kilometres.

"This is an interesting contribution to the discussion," says Jacques Collina-Girard, a geologist at the University of the Mediterranean in Aix-en-Provence, who suggested Spartel as a candidate for Atlantis a few years ago.

Simple folk

"This does not mean the island was inhabited," Gutscher cautions. At a conference of Atlantis researchers in Greece this month, he became convinced that the sophisticated city described by some could not have existed this long ago. "If inhabited, it would have probably been simple fishermen and not a Bronze Age culture as described by Plato," he says.

The Bronze Age is usually described as beginning just 5,000 years ago. Gutscher adds that his sound reflection data revealed no unusual geometric structures that could suggest an extinct civilization.

He says that the Egyptians who told Plato the Atlantis story may have used a different definition of 'years', meaning the destruction of Atlantis happened more recently than thought.

Candidate city

The conference in Greece came to no firm conclusions about the city's existence. But researchers managed to agree on 24 criteria that a geographical area must satisfy in order to qualify as a site where Atlantis could have existed. The place must have accommodated such oddities as hot springs, northerly winds, elephants, enough people for an army of 10,000 chariots, and a ritual of bull sacrifice.

At present there are half a dozen candidates for Atlantis's location, each one with its own shortcomings. Some say that settling on a final answer may prove impossible.

"The geophysics is well done, the geology excellent," says geologist Floyd McCoy of the University of Hawaii, Kaneohe, of Gutscher's study. "But most of Plato's description of Atlantis is so ambiguous and open to interpretation. With the information we have from the ancient text, it may never be found, if indeed it ever existed."


1 Gutscher M. A., et al. Geology, 33. 685 - 688 (2005).

Article Copyright © 2005 MacMillan Publishers Ltd. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=1908
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2007, 11:14:54 am »

Since 2000 years, the history of the atlantide, swallowed up 9000 years before our era, was the object of the speculations more various.  According to Plato (IV° century before our era) this narrative would originate archives of the Egyptian priests of the city of Saïs. 

In the "Timée" Plato insists to present the narrative of the engloutissement of the atlantide as a true history.  The moralist serves himself next of this event to develop a city utopia ideal … Since two thousand years, in the absence of data archeological or geological, the innumerable speculations on the myth of the atlantide are based only on the testimony of the Greek philosopher.  After debating during centuries of the serious one information, the majority of the hellénistes treat now this testimony as a fabrication (vidal-naquet, 2000).  It true that none of locations proposed by the favoring Atlantide real one does not correspond, or in place or in dates, to the matter of the Egyptian priest.  Too much ramblings ésotériques have besides, discredited the research of an anchorage in a geological one besides untraceable reality (Kukal, 1984). 

The universal myth of the swallowed one up city always exercises such a fascination that it is difficult to do leaves it imaginary one and reality

At first of our era, the philosopher neo Platonic Proclus enumerates the envisaged hypotheses to his era (Festugières, 1966) : total philosophical utopia? does real? does partially real?  For lack of factual arguments, two thousand years of exegesis not nothing brought of more to the analysis of Proclus, resumed, to the letter, by Brisson in his introduction to the Critias (Brisson, 1999).  We will evoke here the two positions more extreme before approaching the intermediary position than the Geology now could confirm. 

A special forum celebrates Science with Jacques collina-girard will be opened of the 3 to October 21 you will be able to put him all your questions. 

Brief

Three different positions THE geological HISTORY of the straits of Gibraltar The end of the paléodétroit The geological reality heart of
the myth?  Before the writing: the oral tradition?  Conclusion Bibliographie

http://www.futura-sciences.com/comprendre/d/dossier549-1.php



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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2007, 11:15:41 am »




Jacques collina-girard THE atlantide and Gibraltar - 25/09/2005 following preceding Carte blanche to:  Jacques collina-girard Geologist To Discover his trade To Read his bibliographie His dedicates

Position 1:  All imaginary east in the narrative of Plato


Leaving a tradition, presented as authentic, Plato develops the fiction of an Ideal Republic, opposed victoriously to an invader Atlantic.  As a novelist that, from a does various, constructs his matter, the philosopher puts together a moralistic fable.  The complex corporation atlantidienne of the "Critias", transposed utopia in the past of a history presented as true, is very confession of his author, imaginary (this is we that let us underline) :  "The citizens and the city that yesterday you represented us as a fiction, we will transpose them now in the order of reality: we will suppose that it is a matter of the city that here: the citizens that you had imagined, we will say that this are these, the true ones, our ancestors, those of which had spoken the priest.  There will be agreement completes, and we not at all will wander if we assert that they are well those that existèrent in those times.  "



Plato

THIS IS also the opinion of the learned, familiar ones of the Greek texts, that there rediscover, transposed and idealized, the cities states contemporary of Plato.  The current tendency with these specialists is again more radical since she generalizes this opinion has the entirety of the narrative.  One refuses then all net one, and has priori, the evocation of a real event that would be the source of the history.  It true that all the "interpretations" proposed so far are being delirious.  One will find an inventory of these productions litteraires where the science fiction claims to replace the science in a recent work on these "imaginary atlantides".  Science novelists fiction and holding fantastic archeology currently contributed to do the comments of the antique philosopher a modern one always living myth, of which the general public, more familiar of Walt Disney than of Plato, has well often completely forgotten the sources! 
Outside of the scientific field, but itself while claiming, certain vulgarisateurs, not very exacting regarding coherence with the archeological and geological data, evoke a continent populated of a very advanced, swallowed one up civilization somewhere between the old one and the New World.  This civilization ghost would be the hypothetical source but asserted, of all the big civilizations of the antiquity since egypt to the Mesoamérique.  The man would divert thus ancestors more illustrate than those discovered by the archeology "official".  The research of prestigious native Fathers (indeed extraterrestrial!) with recalcitrant authors to all rational argument is a constant one sufficiently clear one and repetitive, to relate back to mechanisms psychopathologiques shed.  Position 3:  The narrative of Plato could be partially true Exasperated by the deliria of the atlantomanie most of the hellénistes do not evoke anymore the possibility of a reliable tradition.  To the VI century after J.C, Proclus does not exclude nevertheless this possibility in interprètant the text of Plato as a reality mixture historic and of allegory.  To support this view point Proclus quotes Marcellus and his geography treaty "on the things éthiopiques" (on Africa) : this source would confirm the testimony of Plato while evoking the tradition of an archipelago of seven swallowed ones up islands to the gone out of the Columns of hercules.  Certain specialists of the Greek texts, interviewed by the magazine "Science and Life" do not seem as adamant as their colleagues and do not refuse, without arguments, the possibility as there can be a reality kernel in the myth.  Of fact, for lack of new facts to pour to the file since two thousand years, supporters and opposing of a real Atlantide do nothing but to assert, more or less violently, personal impressions …


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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2007, 11:16:26 am »



The discovery of a swallowed one up island to the place and to the date advisable by Plato would be evidently a decisive argument to support an in contrast to position the currently dominating ideas.  Before the second World War, one had looked for this Atlantide "damaged in the sea" in America, to the Azores, to the Canaries, to Madère, in Iceland, in Tunisia, in Sweden, in western Africa, to the Sahara … Etc.  The attempt more recent was the one of the Greek archaeologist Marinatos that wanted to assimilate the atlantide to the Crete of which the civilization would have been ruined by the explosion of the Santorin.  This hypothesis is abandoned: or the place, or the date do not correspond to the text of Plato.  Besides the correlation between the ruin of the Cretan civilization and the explosion of the Santorin is not anymore so certain!.  For lack of find a swallowed one up island in the Atlantic the Czech geologist Kukal concludes, at the end of a serious inventory of the possibilities, that it there has not nothing habitable in the Atlantic except the zone of Madère and Azores.  Unfortunately, none of these islands was not lived has a sufficiently old era to be candidate.  The discovery of Madère and Azores does not seem previous to the Roman era.  The occupation of the archipelago of the Canaries does not climb back up to more than 2000 years before we and these volcanic islands to the abrupt flanks are not surrounded by sufficiently wide continental shelves to hide something else.  Brief THE atlantide and Gibraltar Three different positions THE geological HISTORY of the straits of Gibraltar The end of the paléodétroit The geological reality heart of the myth?  Before the writing: the oral tradition?  Conclusion Bibliographie To Vote for this file

 

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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2007, 11:16:57 am »

Curious, one looked for testimonies of this island very far in the Atlantic without never to evoke the immediate opening of the Detroit of Gibraltar while Plato says explicitly that the island Atlantide is located:  "In front of the columns of hercules".  Our knowledge on this region benefitted from recent geological studies from the perspective of a construction project of a tunnel between Africa and Europe.  Besides, of recent countries of prospected update our knowledge on the prehistoric archeology of this region key again little known.  The prehistorians wonder again on the prehistoric sites immersed Moroccan and Iberian coasts and on the reports, again poorly elucidated between the two continents during the Superior Paleolithic.  This is following these countries, on a suggestion d' HAS. Bouzouggar that we were very interested in the Detroit of Gibraltar of the end of the last glaciation. 



Straits of Gibraltar

The current landscape of the Detroit of Gibraltar is, to the ladder of the geological, recent times: this is the direct inheritance of the climatic warming that succeeded the last glaciation.  The level of the sea is climbed back up of 135 m in the space of twenty thousand years while submerging the continental shelves between 19000 BP and the beginning of our era.  The absence of surrection tectonic of big amplitude during the last ones 20 000 years was verified by the Spanish geologists.  It suffices therefore, to restore the geography of the straits of Gibraltar of the glacial era, to do descend by the thought the sea of 135 m (Figure 1).  This depth is the one currently admitted for the sea level of the last glacial maximum. 




Figure 1 To The northwest of the Cape Spartel, a top melts (Banco Majuan or Bench Spartel of the Spanish marine cards, The Ridge of the marine English cards), oriented NOT sw, formed then an island (14 km of long one on 5 km of wide one).  His summit peaks to –56M (Fig.1, n° 1).  This island was not isolated and was part of an archipelago.  Three small islets constituted as much relays towards the Iberian continent (Fig.  1: n°2, n°3, n° 4).  The pass between Mediterranean and Atlantic, very shrunken in comparison with the current one, considerably was extended towards the west by the émersion of the European and African continental shelves.  The island of the Cape Spartel faced this widened goulet towards the west in a protected havre of the houle of the ocean.  Three islands blocked the access to the big wide one (Fig.  1 n° 5, n° 6 and n° 7).  Altogether this paleo-detroit of the last glacial maximum (Fig.  1) extended itself by an internal sea bathing an insular world.  This his towards the ocean Atlantic spread itself on 77 west Km some Is and of 20 to 10 km of the North to the South.  One reasonably can suppose that this island, situated to 5 km-8 km of the coasts was occupied by the Paleolithic populations of which the presence is abundantly testified on the coastal Moroccans, Spanish and Portuguese.  The émersion period of the archipelago of the Cape Spartel coincides with major replacements of populations.  In Africa of the North and on the Iberian continent, The glacial maximum, sees the elimination of the homo sapiens archaic by the modern men of the superior Paleolithic.  These populations shed themselves quickly on the African and European coasts between 18 000 and 9000 before our era before undergoing the effects of the climatic warming and climbed back up one sea on their insular and coastal territories. 

http://www.futura-sciences.com/fr/comprendre/dossiers/doc/t/histoire/d/latlantide-et-gibraltar_549/c3/221/p3/
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2007, 11:17:36 am »

The climatic warming that puts an end to the last glaciation accompanies itself of an accelerated bottom of the polar ices and of a climbed one back up jerky one sea level (135 m altogether in 10 000 years).  The steps of this "transgression finiglaciaire" well knew thanks to carried out drillings these twenty last years in the tropical coral reefs (Barbades, Tahiti, New Guinea).  These reefs are excellent markers of the position of the sea level: the coral fresh growth accompanies it climbed back up of the sea.  Constituted carbonates these organisms are perfectly datable to carbon 14.  The published bends are coherent (Figure 2) and show the same steps in the climbed one back up one sea.  According to these data, the submersion would be uniform outside of at least two periods of collapse accelerated glacial where it climbed back up of the sea attains 4 m by century (2 m in a life of a group of around fifty year!).  Recent data, on the estuary of the Rio Guadiana, (Algarve, coasts of the border hispano-portugaise) allowed confirming locally this scenario. 




Figure 2 These bends allow understanding the steps of the engloutissement of the Paléodétroit under the sea that leaves places to the current landscape 11 400 years before we.  To the glacial maximum (19 000 before the present), the sea, to -130/-135 m leaves totally emerged the archipelago of the Cape Spartel (Fig.  1).  The climbed one back up one sea begins itself next to attain the level of the - 100 m to 14 000 before the present, period where she quickens brutally (Melt Water Blows 1A) The sea climbs back up next more slowly to the coast - 55 m to 11 300 before the present dates back to a new acceleration (Melt Water Blows 1B).  This accelerated transgression submerges definitively THE ISLAND of the Cape Spartel (-56m) and the island North of the pass West (Fig.  2-5) alone residual witnesses of an archipelago of which the other islands (between -80 m and -130 m) disappeared at the time of the acceleration of 14 000 before the present (Fig.  2). 

http://www.futura-sciences.com/fr/comprendre/dossiers/doc/t/histoire/d/latlantide-et-gibraltar_549/c3/221/p4/
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2007, 11:18:15 am »

Timée:  "In fact, in those times, one could cross this sea.  She had an island, in front of this passage that you call, done you say, the columns of hercules" "Geology:  To the west of the Straits of Gibraltar an internal sea preceded the ocean Atlantic.  One easily could cross this sea to attain the African and European continents An island, currently immersed faced the "columns of hercules" (Fig.1).  Timée:  :  "For of a side, in inside of this straits of which speak to us, it seems that there be only a havre to the tightened goulet and, other, to the outside, there is this true sea and the earth that the surrounds and that one can call truly, to the clean direction of the term the one continent."  Geology:  Plato describes perfectly the Detroit of the glacial period (Fig.  1).  The pass Is presents itself well as a very narrow corridor ("havre to the tightened goulet").  The party west forms a small internal sea (77 Km of long one for a width of 10 km to 20 km).  This Mediterranean in miniature, his before the ocean Atlantic, almost was closed by the émersion of the European and African continental shelves. 



Plato Timée:  "And the those times travelers could pass of this island on the other islands, and of these islands, they could win the whole continent, on the opposed shore of this sea that deserved really his name."  Geology: from this island, one could pass on the others (Fig.  1, 5-6-7) and win next the continent to the North or to the South after to have crossed a sea almost closed (to the west by an island barrier) of 77 km on 20 km (sea "that deserves really his name").  Proclus (V° century of our era) quotes for its part, a geographer, Marcellus and about ten disappeared iles in front of the Detroit of Gibraltar.  Timée:  "This island was bigger than the Libya and Asia met".  Geology:  At first sight, the dimension given by Plato is without commune measures with the one of the island of the Cape Spartel and other islands of the archipelago.  One nevertheless can raise in the Critias a contradictory indication or this not more the dimension of the island Atlantide of which one speaks but the one of the range of the territory of the "atlantes" :  "… Not only were they masters of several other islands in the sea but again, as it was said earlier, their power spread itself on the regions that are located in on this side héraclès columns, up to Egypt and to the Tyrrhénie".  It was also the case of the prehistoric populations that had just invaded the coasts of the Maghreb of the Columns of hercules has the Tunisia while their European counterparts shed themselves on the coasts of the European continent to the Thyrénnie (and well beyond!).  Maybe, it is necessary, also and simply, suppose a certain drift idealizing, during 9000 years of oral transmission?  The has priori Plato wanting to idealize the power that it opposes to the former Greeks in his fiction is not maybe foreign has this exaggeration. 

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