DEAR QOIAS, ABOUT DATING THE SEA-PEOPLES:March 4 , 2007
Dr. Velikovsky has done this in his 1970 (Pocketbook.)"The PEOPLES-of-the-SEA" but he was boycotted.
Whilst other professional or learned scholars, made.( and continue to make!) wild theories about the provenance of these Invaders, ( Like possibly Hittites from Anatolia.) he just asked his famous question:
WHO WERE THE -synchronic- CONTEMPORARIES of: King RAMMESSES-3 ??We know for Fact that Egyptian Kings of the 25-th Dynasty,( 750-650 bc.) have copied Assyrian Modells for their GraveTemple-Walls. The only difference is in the Style, of the Clothing whilst Egyptian Gods usually sit on a couch, the Great assyrian Kings Stand in front of a standing Deity, and by lo, most egyptian Tombwall-pictures during the Assyrian period
650-600 bc)depict standing Dieties !
MEDINET HABU IS 800 YEARS -YOUNGER- THAN WE GAVE CREDIT FOR: NOT 1200 bc but 380 bcSo likewise the Egyptian 27-th Dynasty of the NECTANEBO's has copied Persian Reliëf Paintings on their Tomb Temple walls at MEDINET HABU( to stay within this Thread-Topic !)The 19th Dynasty of Rammesses-3 has in this Mortuary Temple reliëf-paintings-arrangements copied from the Persian King's halls, notably the warHorse Cart, with the Horse feather-Headgear exactly the same as from the persian original.
MIXED-UP DYNASTIES HAVE RIDDLED THE EGYPTIAN CHRONOLOGY: But Professionals don't want to knowThis is impossible because Rammesses-3 supposedly reigned inbetween: 1200-1175 bc and the persian overlordship started only since Chambyssos- conquest( by treachery of the egyptian Chiefstrategos.)in 525 bc.
The question thus rises that the date 1200 bc must be a false conjecture, because The Conquest of Egypt at 525 bc is a well documented historical fact from both the Egypt & the Perian records
Thus Rammesses-3 must be identical with NECTANEBO-1 who reigned in 380-350 bc ( in, round figures.)
"
DOUBLETTS of DYNASTIES",
Thus the 19-th and 20-th Dynasties as Priest-King Dynasties were actually "Doubletts"of the 27-th Dynasty. Ramesses-3 was originally a persian vassal King who rebelled agains Artaxerxes-2 and The Persians tried to re-capture the Country's main Capital Memphis in the Nile-Delta, rather than trying to occupy Egypt from it's soft bellyside along the Theban-Nile region.
SEA-PEOPLES WERE NOMINAL PERSIAN SUBJECTSContrary to popular believe, after the Battles of Marathon & Termopyle against Xerxes-2 ( About 550 bc.)
more than 60% of the Greek isles preferred to remain under Persian Suzereinity, rather than face their own harsh-countrymen as taxcollectors from the mainland.
This accounts for the fact that 2/3 of the persian attack/expeditionary force to Memphis consisted of Greek marine mercenaries and only a third were Persian bowmen( the ones with a headband with Feathers.) The Greek names were ofcourse originally written in Persian not greek, and translaed from the Persian origin by the egyptians on the Temple Walls at Medinet-Habu, so these purely Greek names got a curious punician/Hattian flavour. Which sent the Sea-People wrters on a wrong footing.
EGYPTIAN VICTORY BY A LUCKY STROKE> > > HERODOTUS, quoted by Dr Velikovsky tells that the original Fleet-Admiral-Commander was King AGESILAUS from Sparta. But this king said that he was rich enough to bribe the Fleetcommanders into attacking Perisan Ports and occupy Persia ( e.g. Sardes.)itself instead of -just-Memphis, so he was replaced by a Persian Admiral( who proofed to be an in-experienced Honorary-Court-Admiral.)PHARNABAZOS. with a greek General for the landbattle-part:"IPHICRATES. So, by the srvices of the greek traders in Naukratis, the Egyptians had plenty of warning for what was to come as boarderfighting goes.! and heeded it
To catch a country, capture it's capital !!Rammesses-3 had not enough troops/Boats to occupy all 3 Brances of the Nile Delta: The Sybennitic, the Alexandrian & the Canopic Brances. When the breaching of the canopic Brance was twarted and the Fleet Admiral AGESILAUS called back, ( together with his men the 1/3 part of the whole force. ( the ones with the Sundisk between the Helmet-Horns.)NEXT, the Persians went past the Alexandrian brance and attempted to enter into the Sybennitic Brance not realising that it was the Month of the "little -Niledelta-Tsunami"
DID THE SEA-PEOPLES TURN AGAINST THEMSELVES AT THE BATTLE-FINISH ?? So they were washed-out to open seas where the Egyptian Boats could easily enclose them. The greek mercenaries rather than becoming egyptian captives decided to rebel against their Persian allied Chiefs: Iphicrates & Pharnabazos and turned against the Persian Bowmen. Which explained why these "Sea-Peoples apparently were fighting themselves at the battle finish.
COULDN'T HISTORIANS TELL GREEKS APART FROM " those fictual Hitties from Anatolia" ??Because the Egyptian Soldier's gear has remained unchanged for 1000 years, and the Grek mercenaries"uniform"LOOKED PRETTY PRIMITIVE, the scholars decided that the Peoples of the Seas must date from very early times before the"real-Greeks"( from Turkey & Palestine.)had occupied Greece( about 1100 bc.)
HOW DID -REAL- GREEK HOPLITES LOOK LIKE. . . ( BEFORE THE GLORIOUS HELENISTIC TIMES" ?? )Certainly we as moviewatchers ( Troy with Brad-Pitt & The Argonautes & Odysseus homecoming".)are spoiled, to the core, in our conception of the greek soldier's resplended greek military uniforms with golden feathers and a giant Horsetail Helmet-paraphranelia, the cheek-protectors emboissed with flying angles , and the goldmetal harnesses with bodymuscle-imprint,
But these really existing armors, were from general-officers not from the common soldiers who often wore cumbersome heavy Helmets made only from 50% bronze metal, by melting ( expensive!)copper , not with Casserite or Tin, not even Lead, but: with 50%( inexpensive
limestone( so that they wore shiny-helmets which resembled to bowls of metallic Glass, rather than metalsheet frying-pans, & body armor was often made from "Starched cardboard", painted shiny-white to look like metal-plates. the shields were not metalsheet either but from glued Perkament. Leather was only on the shoe-strings.
"PEOPLES-OF-the-SEA"is DIFFEREND from: "PEOPLES-from-the SEA WHO GIVES A HOOT abou it ??The name Peoples from the Seas'' is somewhat misleading because they came from a Persian naval-Base near present JOPPA in Philista, where the individual Fleets from the Persian dependances in the greek Cyclade-Isles had to convene before being "send-out"to occupy Egypt(=Memphis.)
Philistia is also a misleading name it looks different from the Geo-name PALESTINE, but it is the same name
Philis-may mean Sons -of -the -Land, but PALES-Tine simply means:"LAKE-People" by extention"SEA-people
WHEN A SEA, is not a SEA, but an inland irrigation LAKE: The Name SEA-People is thus an transcription of Palestine ! to illustrate for the very intrested persons how a translation error made the Word: "Lake-People" into the more know SEA-People, I quote that in the German language the Geo-Names of SEA & LAKE have been in-explicably:"Switched" their respective meaning during the centuries. When a German speaks about the irrigation-LAKES in his country he calls them ( Stau-)SEE, thus: SEAS, not Lakes this is very strange to english speakers who name a LAKE a POND but not a SEA/ "SEE". Do you see what I meant ?? It is Odd but you'll get used to this anomaly .
CONCLUSION:We now know that the
DATE is WRONG: 1200 bc should be 380 bc accounting for Greek & persian artefacts in Medinet Habu( which were explained-away as:"inserted tomb-Gifts of Later dates./days")
RAMMESSES-3 is the Throne
name of NECTANEBO-1( which he took while yet being known as Nectanebo-1 by the Greeks.)He thus did not live in 1200-1175 bc but 380-50 bc ( Which is indeed even more than Dr.V's ( average-)500-years apart.)
This also means that all the other Eleven/ Seven! Ramesses that comprized the whole of the 20-th dynasty were compressed inbetween Rammesses-3's death in 350 bc & the reconquest of Egypt by Artaxerxces-3 "Longimanes" in 345. Thus the 20 "Pharaohs"of the 20-th Dynasty were actually the 27-th dynasty that only existed"in about 350-345
Thus a Dynasty of only 5 years with 20 Kings!The obvious-solution to this "
Enigma" is that these Priestkings called Rammessess-3 to Eleven, were reining
concordantly in 20 provence(=Nomo.)at the same time, but claiming the royal title "illegally" or just structurally, as part of a honorary titulature.
because: PTOLEMY DID NOT LIKE ERASTHOSTENES( who was accurate.), HE USED THE( wrong )COÖRDINATES OF POSIDONIS( who was in-accurate.) to locate Atlantis (in 200 ad )in North-Africa/ Mauretania.)By this Ptolemy had set-back Cartography for 500 years, it took another 1500 years and the condamnation , of that Polish monk Copernicus, & Gallileo, before Orthelius & Mercator found the right Carthesian-Coördinates only because Ptolemy did not like Erasthostenes work. Likewise, Nancy Sandars ( Book The Sea-Peoples, London Thames & Hudson.1975)and other writers after her ( Betancourt- 2000.) could have easily picked-up or copied the right information so briljantly provided by Dr Velikovsky, but they culled nothing from Dr Velikovsky, afraid to become a laughingstock to the professional academic-establishment, to their own detriment.
SEA-PEOPLES ??... WASN'T THAT HITTITES from-ANATOLIA in 1200 BC? ( I THINK I GOT THAT RIGHT ?!?.)Even in This Thread everybody follows the traditional-route for the Sea-Peoples and doubts if Dr Velikovsky's discovery is to be trusted because as a geologist, he had no standing as an amateur-Egyptologist, and however right he was, the professional Egyptologists kept seeing him as an New-age-"Interloper" on their sacret 'territorry'.
IOANNES WAS A GARDENER< NOT A SEA-PEOPLE, despite his - mistaken-"FISH"-JACKETYou asked specifically about the OANNES FIGURE, it is YOUR Question, I did not bring this up off topic-here-
So I hope to be excused for digressing a bit here: OANES is a ( Babylonian-)copy of the Greek Poseidon.
Etymology & Iconography are Arts that professional Assyrologists like to avoid as:"{ Unscientific".)
So except on Coin-iconology they do not mention it.
FROM:"OANNES"-to-KING-"AD".The name OANNES is wrong as-usual- it is a word-corruption of the name of "Atlantis": IO-DANN(+ESH.)
The name for OMAN was originally IO-MAN, and the name for
Hadramaut(= Catramotita from the"Periplus" edition year: 600 ad, by nestorial-Patriarch: Cosmas io-Pleutes.)was originally AYAMAN( thus io-MAN. IOMAN became Oan-nes by wordcorruption, it means just:"Greek King"or KING-DANN, of the GREEKS", by extention, it means ATLAS-the-KING-of-ATLANTIS, this ( 1st-)King was: DANAOS: King"AD"
King POSEIDON, AS: King DEUKALIONAs the'original "Poseidon he was depicted as a standing Figure above a plantpot with a sappling in it. ( the Babylonians have elaborated him a bit, put a crown on his head gave him shoes and a basketlike Bucket- with a sponge instead of a thin vase as watercontainer. This Sappling( a Siccomore-Figtree.) had 3 Branches representing the ( 3 Seasons.) with his right hand he held the stem with his left hand he watered this sappling from above by a Can in the form of a long, tall teapott, Thus, comemmorating the( First-Tsunami/=seismic-Flood, that hit "Atlantis- Aden in 1075 bc.)
A FISHTAIL WAS THE COVERTED SYMBOL/= ICON FOR AN ELEPHANT(= a WaterPIG,/Piscus.) FROM AtlantisOriginally Poseidon/Oannes, was seated on ( THE BACK OF:)a small -Elephant while doiing this.
Thus the real Poseidon was also standing above 2 Elephants depicted as sea-wadeing:"Hippo-Campii.)
Later in the Babylonian Reliefs of this Tree-of-Life, he was standing with the head of a Griffion or Harpy which both mean the Tabooed Elephant's Head. Later jewish practice was to depict jewish Kings with BirdHeads. Thus the GRIFFION is the "Bird-of-Atlantis" These"Birda-of-Paradise"were thus( White-)Elephants. ( Sure it is hard to see the cxonnection between a Bird nan an Elephant, but if we were shaped in the likeness of the oldes God than we are all Elephants.)
in Atlantis, and Punicia the White Elephant was nicknamed as a Fish, because he lived like a moose in the coastal waters under the name "Sun-Bull-of-Helios. In the Babylonia transcript the phrased"On the Back of this Fish/ Elephant may have been misprinted as"on his back he had a fish". So this Oannes-Fish was not a Fish at all !! It was the Elephant on which BACK, Poseidon was supposed to have seated, not the other way around that the fish/ Elephant sat on Poseidon('s back.) Translation errors became"Dogma's"
The god DAGON or Dagan has a fish body and a man's torso, an impossibility BUT to save space on COINs the Coinmaker merged the Figure of Poseidon, with the animal Elephant he was sitting on, to a new composite the:"Mer-Man".) Likewise CECROPS & ERICHTHONIOS were depicted as Men with"fish, (later "Snake-)bodies. The Fish-part meant that they were originally depicted as riding an Elehant until the year 855 bc when the white-Elephant was declared TABOO in the Known-World and killed.
PERSIANS CAME FROM A LAND(=Fars) ALSO KNOWN AS:"ARABISTAN" or Lurista or Beluchistan or Pakistan orThe Persians were called Arabians because they had occupied all of Arabia from head to toe, but this is a modern term: Arabia used to be named:"HYPERBORIA" when this LAND became TABOO, the translators simply reversed the Letter-order: HyperBoria became: Hyper-abians=Airab/Repia this was further "Contracted" to: 'Europa' ( Eurybia"just happened to mean 'Broadface-d'.)
ABOUT THE RED-SEA CANAL( IT DID NOT EXIST YET IN 1200 bc.( So no Sea-Peoples there !)This Mediterranean Red-Sea-Canal was carved from the soft silt soil in the Delta, and started 30- km from the Mediaterranean Sea-shore at Memphis and was paralell to the present Suez-Canal but 5-Km apart.
it was started and finished by Ramesses-2 in about 600( not 1200. bc.) but it was soon blown in with sands and Darius in 520 bc only removed this sands from the allready existing Canal.
Rammesses-2 was warned that the PERSIANS COULD HAVE WELL USED THIS CANAL TO INVADE EGYPT SECRETLY,But that is nonsence this dreaded invasion came indeed about a 100 years after Ramesses-2 by the treachery /bribary-of- an egyptian official, the then Minister of War of Psammetticus-3, in 525, who had made waterholes into the desert Cliffs to provide for the approaching persian Army.( Quote=Herodotus.)
In earlier times, the Time of Pharaoh/ King
Shabatakko-Tarhakka,( Known as "Sethos"= vassal-King of Assur.) (and his son the Last( native-) king
Tanut-Amun, also known as: "Seti-1")the Assyrian host of Assurpanibal occupied the Egyptian capitals of Memphis & Thebes, at the end of the 25-th Dynasty in 670-650 bc by crossing a landbridge at Bab el Mandab/ Perim( which is the original "Strait-of-Gibraltar".)it appeared however that a meteoric shower happened to hit the invading assyrian army in 670 in Ethiopia, and Assurpanibal only fluke was that at the first skirmishes he already had taken prisionner the Egyptian king Tarhakka, and forched him to acknowledge assirian overlordship in Egypt. Tarhakka escaped during the meteoric shower but kept his allegence to Assur, incidentally, in the Bible Tarhakka is called "MANASHE"
This was in the
AFAR-TRIANGLE which is known for spontaneous Landrises (= Guyots.)and Seashore sinking,(=Tombolos.) so maybe Assurpanibal was just Lucky to be there when the seabottom occasionally rose. If memory is correct: the distance between Africa/ Tanger & Spain/ Gibraltar is 40.Km at a dept of 40 meters the distance between French Somaliland & south-Araby is 15 Km and the mean Depth is also 15 meters, That's why in earlier times( Before 855 bc !) this STRAIT-of Bab-el-Mandab" was nick-named the: "Indian-BOSPHOROS".
MARK PONTA has read some parts( as a schoolbrat, illegally at the NewsStand ??)of: the PEOPLES-of-the-SEAS"by Velokovsky and found it intriging but was not quite ready to accept it, after yeras of study of Atlantis he is now impatient for "real Evidence". . . . In this case of Debuking or Denouncing the Wrong date of 1200 bc for the non-existant"Peoples-of-the-SEAS" How 'real' should REAL-evidence be?
If people don't want to accept Dr Velikovsky's solution of the Seapeople's problem and keep writing about it with wild theories not quoting Dr.V's discovery, then, we are guilty not only of Bliss-ignorance, but of promoting it!
GEORGEOS, ALREADY MENTIONED ( IN, A.R.) THAT YOU DON"T READ HIS CLEAR EXPLANATIONS VERY WELL, and that he is not mad at you in re-explainig what he just had said.I hope to have sufficiently answered some of your Questions, and more to come, You know that I have posted these answers 400 times on www"Atlan-Org" and still most people there were promted to believe in an ATLANTIS in Indonesia, just forgetting that in 9.000 bc indonesia was in the Arctic zone.
Please, IN CASE THAT, you think replying to the ABOVE, is too tyresome,
just COMMENT on my damned Subscript !Sincerely
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BlueHue "
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