Plato's Atlantis My Theory

[BlueHue]

Dear, . . . QOUAIS,

SORRY TO BUTT IN,

But did you realise that Atlantis is spelled wrong ?? But maybe you think that a misspelled geographical name is not importent ? dfiorinstance: " CADIZ is not GADARAs but KADESH ! "
The original phrase for Atlantis, was INSULA  ATLANTIDis MARE OLIM ABSORPTA, that's why the French also got the name wrong because Atlantis/Atlantidis is a possesional Pronoun not a Geographical NAME !

The proper name for Atlantis is thus: AT-Lant but in the Koran it is better spelled:" AD- LAND ". HOWEVER,

Since Atlantis is not Egyptian or Greek neither it was origionally spelled in Punician: HAT-Land and in (Modern-)Hindi or sanskrit: HATTi-Land.

This puts on a different aspect on the Geographical situation, because the Hebrew and babylonian HATTi-Lands were in South Arabia.
HERODOTUS himslf mentions that Atlantis(+ Hatti-Land) was on the World-Ocean(= mediaterra-Okeanos.)which was not the present MediaTerra-Nean Sea, but the Erytraean Sea(= mare Rubrum in latin.)

Professional Cartographists equall this Erytraean-Sea with the GULF-of- ADEN, or in extention the ARAB/Indian-Sea as well.

Europe is mistakenly seen as the site of ancient Atlantis, but that is impossible just BECAUSE:

1 Atlantis was at war with Europe, 2 after it's demise by submersion ithe disaster-victimes became colonists of Europe.

That means that to continue to call Europe ancient Atlantis is collaborating to History falsification.

How come than that we keep looking for Atlantis in Europe ? ? ?

In 1500 King FERDINAND OF Spain DECREED THAT his-Spagnola was the original Atlaqntis/Hesperis that was a political decision niot an historical one and we amateur Historians fell for it Lock stock and barrel !

Sincerely " BlueHue ":dd. 3 Dec.2007

PS ( I express my sincere apologies, Sorry to debuke your theory this unelegant way ! But Julia has made the same mistake, however she saw the Light in ras den as atlantis, too.

[Qoais]

Hi Blue Hue
Sorry it took so long to get back to you.  I've been rather busy lately.

I do understand what you've said.  I see your point about "Europe".  In other words, Europe isn't fighting herself, she's fighting the Atlanteans, who, after their land sunk, spread out and settled in parts of Europe.  However, since I don't know European history, I would ask if Spain was considered part of Europe back then?  Just what was considered Europe back then?  Plato says the Atlanteans and Athenians were fighting.  There were others who "fell away" and Athens was left to fight on her own. 

[Mario Dantas]

Hi Qoais,



I think your question is pertinent. I have been working on something (since very little is known about the Asopus river). Kircher's Map might be the answer.

Notice the only and bigger Insula Atlantis river facing Europe (Oropus district)... Then, answering your question, Kircher show us but the "tip" of Oropus, more or less, as in Plato's book:

"Concerning the country the Egyptian priests said what is not only probable but manifestly true,
that the boundaries were in those days fixed by the Isthmus, and that in the direction of the continent they extended as far as the heights of Cithaeron and Parnes; the boundary line came down in the direction of the sea, having the district of Oropus on the right, and with the river Asopus as the limit on the left."


Regards,

M

[julia]

The ancient literature about Atlantis:
By Cedric Leonard

TIMELINE OF ANCIENT SOURCES


Whence came the story of Atlantis?



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It has been suggested that a timeline of ancient authors who wrote about Atlantis would contribute to the material presented in this website. In compliance with the suggestion, I am including the following timeline. The sources (Plato is not the source) of the Atlantis story are sometimes hazy, but many in the list below are quite solid.


When perusing the list below it might be well to keep in mind that to Philo the island mentioned by Plato was called Atalantes. The "Atlanteans" mentioned by Herodotus and Diodorus were Atlantes to Herodotus, but Atlantoi to Diodorus only four hundred years later. Also we find that the Aletae of Sanchuniathon were Auritae to Manetho nine hundred years later.


It is foolish to expect all references to Atlantis and Atlanteans to be spelled to our liking. The Berbers of North Africa had place-names like Attala, while the Sanskrit writings tell us of an island in the Atlantic called Atala. It is my contention that these are merely different forms of the Greek "Atlantis".

THE ANCIENT AUTHORS


DATE: AUTHOR: SOURCE: CONTENT:
470 A.D. Proclus Com. On Timaeus Preserves Crantor's account (now lost) of his trip to Sais, Egypt to see the temple records reported by Solon
370 A.D. Marcellinus Res Gestae On the disappearence of landmasses: "in the Atlantic sea, off the coast of Europe, a large island was swallowed up."
300 A.D. Arnobius Adversus Gentes Writes of the destruction of Atlantis as if it were an accepted fact of history.
100 A.D. Plutarch Orb of the Moon Claims that the Atlantic was shallow and unnavigable because of the subsidance of the island of Atlantis.
10 A.D. Philo Judaeus Incorruptibility The Island of Atalantes in Plato's Timaios was overwhelmed by floods and earthquakes and suddenly disappeared.
8 B.C. Diodorus Library of History Describes a race of "Atlanteans" living in Libya (North Africa), whose deities originate in the Atlantic.
25 B.C. Strabo Geography Expressed the opinion that possibly Plato's story about the island of Atlantis was not a fiction.
c. 100 B.C. Marcellus Ethiopic History Canary Islanders preserved traditions of Atlantis, which they alleged had once governed all the islands in the Atlantic.
100 B.C. Aelian De Natura Animalium "Dwellers by the ocean" say the ancient kings of Atlantis traced their descent back to the god Poseidon.
250 B.C. Manetho Old Chronicle Lists the ten god-kings, (which he called the "Auritae") who, during the Reign of the Gods, ruled a "foreign country".
300 B.C. Crantor Com. on Timaeus Priests of Sais show Crantor the temple columns from which Solon derived his knowledge of the story of Atlantis.
320 B.C. Theopompus Meropis Priests of Phrygia tell him of a continent of great size in the far west inhabited by both peaceful and warlike people.
340 B.C. Bhavishya Purana Mentions Atala, the "White Island" across a sea of saltwater in the West, inhabited by Magas who worship Surya, the Sun.
350 B.C. Plato Timaeus/Critias Plato relates the now familiar story of Atlantis and its final destruction by earthquakes, floods and subsidance.
450 B.C. Herodotus Histories The ocean now called the Atlantic he calls "the Atlantis Sea". He describes a tribe of "Atlanteans" living in North Africa.
590 B.C. Solon Atlantica (lost) Solon began his epic poem "Atlantica" based on the story of Atlantis he had gotten from the priests at Sais, Egypt.
600 B.C. Mahabharata Karna Parva The epic war of the Gods and Asuras in which the island of Atala and all its inhabitants sink into the "Western Ocean".
735 B.C. Hesiod Theogeny Tells us of the Titans who, after losing a ten-year war, were imprisoned beneath the waters of the Ocean in the far West.
800 B.C. Homer Iliad Refers to the imprisonment of the Titan Cronos at the "far end of the earth" beneath the "waters of the restless sea."
1190 B.C. Sanchuniathon Phoenician History Calls ancient god-kings of former times the "Aletean kings". Gives Phoenician legends of Thoth, Cronos, Atlas and Zeus.
1300 B.C. Turin Papyrus King-List Lists all ten of the god-kings which reigned in a pre-historic age (Zep Tepi) just before the reign of the demi-gods
c. 2000 B.C. Vishnu Purana Locates Atala, the White Island, in the "Western Ocean" at same latitude as Canary Islands in the Atlantic.
c. 2500 B.C. Palermo Stone Royal Canon Lists the last eight of the ten god-kings, including Cronos (Seb), Osiris, Set and possibly Thoth.
c. 4000 B.C. Egyptian Book of the Dead King Thoth ruled an Island in the West which was destroyed by water, and brought the surviving rulers eastward to Egypt





In the Americas we encounter place-names like Atlan (Isthmus of Panama), Aztlan (Toltec mythology), Atitlan (Guatemala), and Aztalan (Wisconsin). The Americas are rife with such names; and while we should not assert that each and every one refers to Atlantis, neither should we jump to the conclusion that none of them have any connection at all with Atlantis.


Scholars use these natural variations to claim that Plato invented Atlantis as a morality tale. Only recently I observed a Ph.D. assert that "Plato coined the name Atlantis," when he should know that Herodotus used the name (the same identical form) a hundred years earlier than Plato. I guess if you're agin' it, you're agin' it, and ain't nothin' gonna change your mind!


Anyway, I suggest keeping these considerations in mind while perusing through the above references--I haven't chosen them lightly.


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[julia]

ANCIENT WRITINGS
Pre-Platonic Writings Pertinent to Atlantis

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by R. Cedric Leonard


Scholars the world over have repeatedly declared that ancient sources describing Atlantis are plentiful, "but before Plato - nothing". They make such a declaration because of several reasons. (1) They disregard every record in which Atlantis is not mentioned by name. (2) In their skepticism they disregard records which mention Atlantis by name. (3) They are unfamiliar with the Sanskrit writings of India. For a timeline of ancient writers before and after Plato, click Here.


Let us use an example from a hundred years before Plato in which Herodotus, the "father of history," mentions Atlantis by name in referring to the body of water into which it sank. Here is the Greek text of a portion of Clio (History, Bk I, 202) in which the waters outside the Pillars of Hercules is said to be known as the Atlantis Sea.
 
Greek text from the "History" of Herodotus which mentions Atlantis
"But one of the mouths of the Araxes flows with clarity into the Caspian Sea; but the Caspian Sea is by itself, not connected to the other sea. For the sea navigated by all the Greeks and the one outside the Pillars called the Atlantis Sea and the Erythraean, are one and the same." (Translated by R. Cedric Leonard)

One does not need to be a Greek scholar to recognize the word "Atlantis" in the above Greek text (line 5, 3rd word from the left). Many of my colleagues insist that the phrase should be translated "the sea of Atlas" instead of the Atlantis Sea. While it is true that Atlantis is an inflected form of Atlas, these very same colleagues have never suggested that when Plato speaks of the "island of Atlantis" it would be more properly translated as the "island of Atlas". The island and the ocean were called "Atlantis" because they were named after Atlas (which is what the name "Atlantis" means).


The point here, which cannot be gainsaid, is that Atlantis was known before Plato--so well-known that the sea outside Gibraltar was commonly called the Atlantis Sea in Herodotus' time. It had acquired that name because Atlantis had once occupied that area. We carry the same tradition down when we refer to that same body of water as the Atlantic. While in Europe, I noticed that their maps label the same ocean "Atlantischer," preserving the word "Atlantis" intact.


In the above quote, Herodotus also mentions another name of the Atlantic, the Erythraean. The word in Greek indicates the color red--descriptive of the effect of sunset on the water, as would be seen from a European vantage point. (Note: It is this word, not Geryon, that means "red glow of the sunset," Ignatius Donnelly notwithstanding; 1882 edition, p. 307). But even a minimal amount of research demonstrates that the Atlantic Ocean had yet another more common name in ancient times.


Ancient Egyptian, Sanskrit and European sources (e.g., Pliny the Elder) often refer to the Atlantic Ocean as the "Western Ocean"--important if one is looking for ancient records of Atlantis. It is a given that any records dating back before Plato are going to be hard to find; but even though the pickings are slim, records which have been overlooked by most modern scholars do exit.


As we encounter these writings, it should be noted that Atlantis itself is sometimes represented by various spellings (sometimes even unnamed); but it should also be noted that when the context is properly considered, there is no doubt about the identity of the island being referenced. And, as will be demonstrated, there is no doubt that the "Western Ocean" mentioned is indeed the Atlantic.


According to Critias, Solon was given the story by the Egyptian priests at Sais which they had obtained from engraved columns in the temples of Egypt. Manetho, whose writings form the basis of our knowledge of ancient Egyptian history, obtained his famous King-Lists from similar sources. So what about this source?

THE EGYPTIAN WRITINGS

Over a half-century ago Cambridge scholar and explorer, Harold T. Wilkins (1946), noted the depiction of a great festival on column 8 of the Great Hall of the temple of Rameses at Karnak, along with an accompanying text memorializing the loss of a drowned continent in the Western Ocean. The column mentioned cannot be easily dismissed, and is a relevant example of the type of source to which Solon (in Plato's Timaeus) refers.


Plato described Atlantis as being ruled by ten kings before its demise. Egyptian king-lists going back thousands of years before Plato (we will look at one example here) establish four important facts which we should notice. They are:


1) Egyptian tradition begins with the "reign of the gods"
2) In all there were ten of these so-called "god-kings"
3) They were said to have reigned in a foreign country
4) From all appearances they were called "Atlanteans"


This last statement will be challanged by scholars, so let's take a closer look at the Egyptian king-lists. One noticable fact is that Manetho (250 B.C.) calls the first series of kings who ruled during the "reign of the gods," Auriteans. This seems to be nothing more than a corruption of the word "Atlantean". Let me explain.


Egyptian hieroglyphics only approximate real sounds: for instance, a hieroglyphic "k" must be used to represent the hard "g" sound. The hieroglyph that Manetho transcribed as r can equally be transcribed as an l. Thus the "Auriteans" of Manetho's king-lists could just as well be "Auliteans": phonetically almost identical to "Atlanteans". This idea obtains credible support from the fact that the ancient Phoenician historian Sanchuniathon (1193 B.C.) calls these very same kings Aleteans (Cory, 1826).


Although there are numerous ancient Egyptian king-lists in existence, only a few include the famous "reign of the gods". These include the Palermo Stone (2565-2420 B.C.), the Turin Papyrus (1300 B.C.), and Manetho's Egyptian Chronicles (250 B.C.). Of these, the Turin Papyrus is by far the most complete source.


The Turin Papyrus (Gardiner, 1987; Smith, 1872) lists ten kings who ruled during the "reign of the gods," complimenting the fragments of Manetho which have come down to us. Most importantly, it allows us to equate the Egyptian names with the Greek names given by Manetho. Below is a list of god-kings from the Turin Papyrus, with Manetho's fragmented list alongside:

The Turin Papyrus Manetho's God-Kings
Ptah Hephaestus
Ra Helios
Su Agathodaemon
Seb Cronos
Osiris Osiris
Set Typhon
Horus .
Thoth .
Ma .
Horus Horus 


So we have ten Aulitean (or, Aletean) kings reigning in a "foreign land" during the precise time Plato says ten Atlantean kings reigned in Atlantis. The Turin Papyrus also records the installation of the next series of kings in 9850 B.C.! This date is so close to the date given for the end of Atlantis that coincidence is virtually out of the question. In such a case, the equation "Aletean=Atlantean" doesn't seem out of the question. (For more info, return to HOME Page and click on Mythological Traditions or the Writings from Egypt icon.)

THE SANSKRIT WRITINGS
 

The Sanskrit writings of ancient India contain several descriptions of Atlantis, and even assert that Atlantis was destroyed as the result of a war between the gods and Asuras (recalling the war between the gods and the Titans). Present day scholars are so steeped in Greek and Roman (western) literature that Indian sources are too often ignored.



A passage in Sanskrit from the Mahabharata

The Vishnu Purana (circa. 2000 B.C.), one of the oldest of the Hindu Puranas, speaks of Atala, the "White Island," one of the seven dwipas (islands) belonging to Patala (Book II, chaps. i, ii, and iii). This old text locates Atala geographically on the seventh (heat, or climate) zone, which according to Francis Wilford (the translator) is 24 to 28 degrees north latitude, putting it in the same latitude as the Canary Islands just off the North African coast. Col. Wilford rightly calls Atala, "Atlantis, the White Island". (Wilford, 1808)


At least one "authority" has attempted to identify Atala with Italy, but Italy is not an island. Also, Italy is 38 to 45 degrees north latitude. Finally, I fail to see any possibility that the "Western Ocean," mentioned as its location, could be the Mediterranean when the Karna Parva of the Mahabharata clearly describes Africa as comprising that ocean's eastern shoreline--a correct geographical description of the west coast of Africa.


Another non-Sanskrit scholar implies that Atala might be one of the well-known northern lands, such as Iceland or Greenland, and that the epithet "White Island" refers to its being covered with snow the majority of the time--even the mythological Hyperborea has been suggested. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case.


Atala and Sveta Dwipa ("White Island") are not the only names for Atlantis in Sankrit lore. Another name, Saka Dwipa, is used just as often in the Puranas; and according to the Sanskrit Dictionary, Saka Dwipa means "island of fair skinned people." It seems quite probable that "white" refers to the islands inhabitants, rather than to the dominant color of the island--although it should not be imagined that all Atlanteans were white.


The terms "Atala" and "White Island" are used also by the Bhavishya Purana (4th cent. B.C.). Here it is stated that Samba, having built a temple dedicated to Surya (the Sun), made a journey to Saka Dwipa, located "beyond the salt water" looking for the Magas (magicians), worshippers of the Sun. He is directed in his journey by Surya himself (i.e., journeys west following the Sun), riding upon Garuda (the flying vehicle of Krishna and Vishnu) he lands at last among the Magas.


The Mahabharata (circa. 600 B.C.) also refers to "Atala, the White Island", which is described as an "island of great splendour." It continues: "The men that inhabit that island have complexions as white as the rays of the Moon and they are devoted to Narayana . . . Indeed, the denizens of White Island believe and worship only one God." (Santi Parva, Section CCCXXXVII)


This well-known Sanskrit epic contains more than one account of a powerful islandic empire in the Atlantic which sank to the bottom of the "Western Ocean" following a horrendous war. It doesn't take much imagination to link Atala with Atlantis. (For more information, click on War of the Gods either here, or after going to the "Aircraft from India" page, via the appropriate icon on Home Page.)


The Santi Parva also describes Atala as being inhabited by white men who never have to sleep or eat. (Ibid.) Interestingly enough, the Greek historian Herodotus (450 B.C.) describes a tribe of Atlanteans who "never dream and eat no living thing". (History, Book IV) Can this be coincidence? And just as the god Poseidon is very much involved in the Atlantis story, likewise in the Sanskrit accounts we find Varuna (the Hindu Poseidon) very much involved in Atala.


Another description is remarkably similar to Plato's, even down to its circular capital city, Tripura! Tripura is made in three concentric parts, just as Plato's Metropolis is divided into three parts by concentric canals. During the war of the gods and Asuras, the wicked cities of the Asuras began to fall, one by one, amidst loud cries of woe. "Burning those Asuras, he [the hero] threw them down into the Western ocean" (Karna Parva, Section XXXIV).


Concerning the "concentric arrangment" of Tripura, a recent archeological discovery of a fortified palace in Bactria, India, known as Dashly-3, turned out to be a concentric 3-ringed structure of the "tripura type". [Their words, not mine.] The archaeologists, excavating under the auspices of the Archaeological Departments of Pakistan and India (Mahadevan, 15), also state that the Dasyas, the builders of Dashly-3, were "Asura-worshippers".


In the Surya Siddhanta, an ancient Sanskrit text on astronomy, the translator (W. D. Whitney, 1860) mentions an "island" (dwipa) called Jambu Dwipa, surrounded by rings of alternating land and water. I am tempted to equate Jambu Dwipa with the Atlantean capital, which Plato describes as surrounded by circular canals, "making alternate zones of sea and land" (Critias).


The geographical specifics given in the above writings render the location of the powerful island civilization known as Atala beyond question: Atala was a large island, containing numerous cities, located off the western shore of Africa in the Atlantic Ocean. Following a tremendous war, the island with all its cities and inhabitants, was sent burning to the bottom of that ocean, after which peace prevailed. To attempt to separate these accounts from Plato's Atlantis is an exercise in triviality.


I believe the above accounts constitute ample evidence that my years of research have not been wasted. Perhaps literary scholars' assertion that no pre-Platonic accounts of Atlantis exist should be seriously reconsidered.

TOP of Page
Bibliography

Champollion, Jean Francois (translator), Turin Papyrus, 1300 B.C.
Cory, Isaac Preston., Ancient Fragments, London, 1832.
Diodorus Siculus, Library of History, Book III, 54.1, 8 B.C.
Donnelly, Ignatius, "Atlantis: the Antediluvian World," Harper & Brothers, New York, 1882.
Gardiner, Sir Alan H. (translator), "The Royal Canon of Turin," Griffith Institute, Oxford, 1987.
Herodotus, "History": Book I, Clio (Leonard's translation), 450 B.C.
Herodotus, "History": Book IV, Melpomene (Rawlinson's translation), 450 B.C.
Leonard, R. Cedric, Quest for Atlantis, Manor Books, New York, 1979.
Manetho, Egyptian Dynasties, 250 B.C. (from the text of Dindorf & compared with Eusebius)
Plato, Critias Dialogue (Benjamin Jowett's translation), 360 B.C.
Roy, Protep Chandra (translator), Mahabharata, 700 B.C., Calcutta.
Sanchuniathon, History of the Phoenicians, 1193 B.C. (Eusebius Praep. Evang., l.c. 10.)
Smith, George, "The Chaldean Account of Genesis," London, 1872.
Whitney, W. D., "Surya Siddhanta," The Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. VI, Yale
College, New Haven, 1860.
Wilford, Francis, Journal of Asiatic Researches, Vol. VIII, Calcutta, 1808.
Wilkins, Harold T., Mysteries of Ancient South America, Rider & Co., London, 1946.


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Anthropology | Archeology | Geology | HOME | Linguistics | Mythology | Paleontology
Most ideas are from "Quest for Atlantis" by R. Cedric Leonard
Published by Manor Books Inc., New York, 1979.
Copyright © 1979: R. Cedric Leonard   

[julia]

From the Book: Quest for Atlantis  of Cedric Leonard:
http://www.atlantisquest.com/index.html

[Mario Dantas]

Hi Julia,

Indeed there are important references to Atlantis before Plato, i think that makes its existence more evident. Interestingly, the Egyptians were the ones left with the knowledge of Urban Atlantis. Although, its History is told on the four corners of the world.

M

[BlueHue]

Hi BlueHue,     I do understand what you've said.  I see your point about "Europe".   Europe isn't fighting herself, she's fighting the Atlanteans, who, after their land sunk, spread out and settled in parts of Europe.  However, since I don't know European history, I would ask if Spain was considered part of Europe back then?  Just what was considered Europe back then?  Plato says the Atlanteans and Athenians were fighting.  There were others who "fell away" and Athens was left to fight on her own. 

Dear, . . . . . . .  QOAIS,  and   possibly;    'respected   RAJESH' ,

In SHORT,
Breaking, Template etiquette & source-mentioning: " EUROPE" was the colonization Project of Princess-EUROPA on a broad scale like a complete Nation's migration.   Sit tight: in her days(= 1075-950 bc.)"  Europe " was England, Spain, France/ italy / Greece and of all unexpected things: Turkey (= Anatolia.)  Officially the MINOANS invaded Greece in 3.500 bc but actually the were named the MINEANS from:  ASiR(= in Jemen. )

Secondly we are talking about differend TIME-Lines here if you have not noticed that allready: The Greek DARK  AGES never existed, they were the Chonological error THAT THE DESIGNER OF THE EGYPTIAN CHRONOLOGY Dr EMILE BRUGSCH, MADE BAcK IN 1850, WHEN HE COULD NOT READ THE TURIN-DYNASTY SCROLL YET, AND HAD TO RELY SOLELY ON MANETHOON'S  AEGYPTIAKA YET.  Sothere was an admistrative " error " of 500 non-existing Years !
Egyptologists kept it " Mum" for 100 years in order not to loose credibility they coverred that up !

SO, the traditional/ conventional  King-List DATES inbetween years 1500-1000 which are those famous greek " Dark- Years ": never existed but in the Dating error of dr E. Brugsch.  the year 1000 follows directly upon year 1500 and thus the 18th Dynasty dide NOT " florish " inbetween 1500-1000, but inbetween: 1000-500 bc. ( allbeit disguised under similar names:)  fOR INSTANCE READ this sequence:   SESOSTRIS-123, Thutmoses-1,2,3, AMENNEMES- 1,2,3,4, Amenhotep: 1, 2, 3, 4.  And the OSORKONS 1,2,3 are also Thutmoses 1,2,3, the TAKELOTS-1+2=: Amenhotep-3 & 4.  Only Dr Velokovsky noticed that.

Alas he in Princeton bittered by scholars who , at first pretended to sympathise and than, professed, not to understand his chronology of Atlantis DISCOVERY !  Dr Velikovsky, died in 1980, of sorrow, before he could make a detailled and final TIME- LINE Chart of his REVISED Chronology.   OTHERS have  unsuccesfully tried to " Emulate " the late Dr. Velikovsky by using  variants of his Revised Chronology and re0-named this unsourced Time-Line the " new " Chronology exponents of this MONSTRUM are N.C.POPE, Dr Davidd ROHL and AHMED- OSMAN.

PEOPLE who don't know about the  origin of Atlantis as Ad-Land in South-Arabia and the - proven- validity of the REVISED- Chronology, think that ATLANTIS was in Spain, because of the names CFADIZ/ GADARA/ Tartessos without relising that these arerefugy-colonies from the Atlantic disaster and not Sunken Cities of Atlantis itself !  When Atlantis did " sink " for the FIRST time in 1075-1055 bc No Greeks were living in greece and the present city of ATHENS was not built yet so, 

Don't think or stop thinking of ancient-Athens in Europe, when,  PLATO did mentioned an Early- Athens it was still in South-Arabia and NOT in Greece( so before 1.000 bc BOTH Greece & ATHENS-in- Europe, did not Exist !  . . . . . . I hope that You know, better,  what you were saying when you mentioned the other day, that you understood my point about " EUROPE " NOT beiing the scene of the War of ATHENS defending itself against the Atlantean's RAID on Athens !  I made the problem cause of these wrong ideas,  plain enough !     Just Pity that they lost prominence and are too biased to see themselves as mere colonists from the Minoans/ Mineans who departed in 1055 bc, from the unsignificant-obscure-port of MOCCA ( where the Coffee was invented !)in North-Jemen. !

Was SPAIN part of Europe during Atlantis Raid on ATHENS ? ?
FINALLY a very good Question !  You will have noticed that Mario Dantas and Julia who have continued to post in this thread after you, have not noticed nor answered to your Reply, But have made this good by an ongoiing research after Atlantis in: iNDIA, where the Hindi, called Atlantis " Patala or Atala" MEANING: White-Country and White City.

SINCE EL means GOD and GOD means White Elephant alltogether, Atala/ Patala means White Elephant City in the White-Elephant Country.
DEUKALION was king of PTHYA ( which is a corruption of Patala .) PUT, Pythia, PHUL, Phulbe, PILLARS, these corrupted words all mean " White-ELEPHANT ".
ADEN is a Corruption of: ADDE or  HADDAD  and Atlantis is a corruption of : HATTI-Lands which is in South -Arabia,    ARABIA - FOELIX ( not: Felix !)all these different words mean: White- ELEPHANT  Country, thus the  GEO- Name: Arabian Sea means WHITE- Elephant Sea or by extention the MILK- SEA.

PRESENTLY,  Ras ADEN is administratively re-arranged after british rule ended and the YEMENITES were finally free and unrestricted so that they could stage TWO " HAPPY" neccesary Civil-wars, before realizing that how better their lifes were under the golden age of british rule !  The former Ad-LAND was re-Named several times as: SEiiR, SAANAA, HYMYAR, EL- LAHEIJ, ATHE etc. Today Aden Protecto0rate is re-named as: it's ancient arabic name: HODRIYA,
 
Which was HUZLAND (In the holy-Bible, SHORTENED INTO " THAT Land- of- UZ">)when the KORAN was introduced it became Ad-Land, but in EGYPTIAN TIMES it was named: CHETI- Land or REnenuted-RETENUE(= Goddess of RAIN !) Ana HITA or Elephant lady was a rain-Goddess too in Persia. Strangeli enough, in the Sanskrit " RAM-JAN "  EPOS,  Ras- ADEN is named as " SRI- LANKA " and the City itself as:  HASTINA- PURA,  Paklestine and SYRIA were then named: PULASTIYA  and SURIYA all after the " White- ELEPHANT" which was Poseidon's and SHIVA's steed in his disguise as RUDRA, the name of this White- ELEPHANT was:"  AiR-a-WATAR "  or Air-to-Surface and it was called a FLYING- Elephant  ( with the understanding that Flying in india is an IDIOM, meaning " Exalted" or Holy ! just like " Mohammad" means 'Exalted')

When the Assyrians took Ras-Aden/ Ad-land in 855 bc at the Battle of KAR-KAR( meaning Royal-City or City-of- Cities "!) they taboed this white eelphant who than became the SATAN of the christian creed.  In Greek Myth, the white ELEPHANT became the Sea-Horse or " HIPPOCAMPOS" of Poseidon the Star-Constellation ' ELEPHANT " was re-Named as " CAPRICORNUS ".

The fact that in 855 bc,  King Salmanasser-3 ordered the 1.000 " PILLARS" of Ad-Irem murdered, is quite unknown in hisdtory a small wonder, they ould not retell it he wiped out all whitnesses, because of the Death=penalty of mentioning the word " White- Elephants of -Ad-Land "  Salmanasser -3 " your name is MUD" So there !        ( in 855 bc,  salmanassers-3's white- Elephant taboo decree was manifested in the virtual beheadding of the indian Elephant-GOD " GANEESHA ", by it's own ' master' Shiva, the saying went that" When lord Shiva was Bothered by" Flying-Elephants, " he cut their wings, and they became the Himalayan mountains !)  Hence forward, Shiva abandonned AIR-a-WATAR as his  faithfull Steed and donned himself a Black Waterbuffaloe named " NANDA".

The ELEPHANT WAS TABOOED AND NEITHER THE PICTURE NOR THE NAME OF Elephant WITHIN THE ASSYRIAN EMPIRE WAS ALLOWED TO BE USED, SO Elephant  BECAME Azazel BAALZEBUB, OR Behemoth The NAME ELEPHANT is composed of two words : EL ( which means " GOD') and PHANT (which meant PUNT or PONTOS.) Thus Elephant actually reads " God of- Pontos !" but this is strictly for the Birds:  The ' BABES' of Paradise were those white-Elephants
When Queen of SHEBA was asked how she was acquainted with Solomon's splendour, She answered " A little Bird"(= Sapphire'.) told me !  Little do readers know that the Atlanteans gave Birds names to their White Elephants !)


Further more, this Battle between the Athenians(= Defending.) and Atlanteans (= Attacking by Sea.) is wholly described in the Bible  in the disguise of the " EXODUS " , of  Moses, and the Kamoses -Stela, in THEBES, and also in the Part of the Rig-Veda Puranas that is called" RAMJAN " ( re-transcripted from the Pakrit- Kharosti or Kanada, by -Sri- Valmiki in about 400-350 bc.

The Atlantis FLOODING, or CATACLYSM(= Tsunami.) is less apparent in the Exodus, as APOCALYPSE, and in the RAMJAN, it is mentioned more detailed , that STORMEY  WEATHER was acompagning this Projected RAID on Atlantis, but  very clear in the Kamoses/ Ahmoses STORMSTELE .   Atlantis- City was troubled by recurrent if Small Tsunamies for which the Atlanteans/ Aden peoples of Ad, used White- Elephants as ( Trained !) Guardians livingb partly on the Acropolis partly  feeding on the irrigated TIDAL-Plain ! as the " Cherubs" .

Everything about Atlantis is connected with the reverence of the White ELEPHANT as steed of POSEIDON,  altough PLATO only mentioned these Elephants very BRIEFLY in a HALF-Senhtence, he continued to say in the same sentence that  the WHITE- BULLS of Helios were revered in the Temple of Poseidon, so to the moer than casual onlooker, this means that White- Elephants and White (- Elephant--)BULLS are exactly  THE SAME.

The Location of ATLANTIS
 CAN BE DEDUCED WITHOUT DIFFICULTY FROM A PASSAGE OF Herodotus IN WHICH HE PLAINLY STATED THAT THE Sea-OF- ATLAS AND THE MARE -ERYTRAEUM ARE ALSO EXACTLY THE SAME.   If you don't know WHERE this " Mare Erythraeum was aligned than you have got a problem, luckly we DO know that the WORLD- SEA or World Ocean (= OiKUMENE.)and Mare -Erytraeum are also the same they are now called the ARAB- SEA or more specific, the GULF -of- ADEN !     Aden-country  was also named: OPHIR it's Capital also Ophir is now: SHALALA or SAFARA-metropolis in Omanem Emporion.)= (s-)Ophir.) Biblical DHOPHAR/ =Efraiim.

THIS means that ALL Atlantologists, ( INCLUDING:  YOU and '  GEORGEOS ' ! ) that placed Atlantis Royal City(= Poseidon-Polis != Ras-Aden/ Ad-Land) within " [ present-day-Europe ]" Spain, or Mid- Atlantic/America/ Azores, Malta or indeed Cyprus,  ARE  BARKING- UP THE  WRONG TREE ! but since they don't read this, it will not bother them much, because " Ignorance is Bliss " !   Sharmast was as-bogus- as ' Georgeos ' but less cunning in concealing it !

What IS LEFT OF " Atlantis/ Ad-Land today ? ?
First the Sea-Level did rise AFTER Atlantis demise but only 50 meters, but since then, the RIVER of Atlantis now named TUFAN(= Star, in constellation-Little Bear, formerly called Draco[= Elephant.] has silted up the PORT of Aden at the right hand of Little- Aden(= the Poseidon-Temple-Site.)with 30 meters of red-MUD.

About the Auricalcum WALLS, they have melted away because these were Mud-Walls of Sulpheric Iron Oxide.  The PORT consisted of a Promotory that jutted from the BEACH at Ras-ADEN, far into the Sea but at the Last Earth-Quake or rather SEISMIC WAVE, the Left Brance of this MUD- Crater called Ad-Irem or -I forget- ras IMRAM, (= the same as King " HIRAM f" from Davis's days !)subsided.    ( the  sub- marine Google-Earth Map of the Ras- Aden area is not very well focussed and may be in Error because since a smooth FLAT-MUD layer, now is covering the required " CIRCULAR- Features" of Atlantis- royal City, these will have to be probed by ground-penetrating-scan-radar separately !

THE CITY AND TEMPLE ITSELF HAVE BEEN RAIDED  maybe TEN times in 200 years !  and destroyed by the new ruler in useless anger Who consequently  had to rebuilt it each time, at great costs !  Forinstance: it was the CAPITAL of a wealthy trade association of ten PUNIC SEAPORT CITIES A holy-Deca-POLIS !   I equate ATLANTIS, on different grounds than mr. MANUSCHEVICH as the ( PRE- Exillic ) JERUSALEM or KADESH !   And you know how obssesed King DAVID(= Thutmoses-2 )and  King SOLOMON (= Thutmoses-3) were in repairing that City from the last " Jebusite " occupation !  All rebuilding effords put together they sepent 80 years stalling the repairs, IN THE SILLY BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD DIE IF THEY FINISHED THE TEMPLE !   

When, in 855 bc,  King Salmanasser-3 from ASSUR captured Ras- Aden/ Atlantis, from it's previous - nominal- Ruler: King ACHNATON, he put to death the 1.000 " PILLARS " from Ad-Irem, because they supposedly were causing the recurrent Tsunamies & Earth-Quakes !  Thus the 2 PILLARS of HERACLES could not be Stone Stella on mountains, they were live Elephants !  who as thanks for making a FUZZ about in-comming TSUNAMIES were killed for their - misunderstood- service to mankind .    During the TSUNAMI that hit the Asian Coasts in Dec 200 many tourist-Elephants in Thailand ran away from the SEA- shore saving the Tourists on their back from drowning whilst their PIG-ignorent Karnacs were trying to make them return to their proper place.

    IF ONE THOUGHT THAT THE Asian-PORT AUTHORITIES HAD LEANED A LESSON FROM THIS EXPERIENCE ? ?   No way they purchased expensive Earth-Quake monitoring equipment from the American Gouvernment and ignored the " Incidental" savings of tourists lives by the wit of the tourist Elephants ! 

Sincerely and sadly  " BlueHue "          dd 12 Dec.2007

Ps. could you be so Kind as to transfer this POST as quote, to another existing THREAD like: ATLANTIS in ADEN, Julia used to do that, for me but I don't know and never found out despite Moderator Brooks' explanation,  how that  works from my end.  THANK  YOU.

[Qoais]

I have come across a rather interesting theory, so thought I would share it for everyone to have a think about.  About how the ancients communicated "at the speed of light"!


Heliographs mercury clad mirrors called “Aspas”

Xenophon (434-355 BC) an ancient Greek war hero and historian wrote a history of ancient Greece called Hellenica, which contains the phrase to

“Signal with a shield"

This is thought to refer to “reflecting sunlight” with a mirrored shield.” That shield was called an ASPAS the Ancients word for snakes The messages were called “aspasmos” “to handle the snake”: yes they were what you would call snakes.

The King sent Pereus to Gorgon (the land of ugly women) and to Medusa the monster woman with snakes for hair. I am sorry but they were asps :Xenophon”s bright shields NOT SNAKES.

NOW HOW WOULD THE DESCRIPTION OF A COMMUNICATION NETWORK TRANSLATE OVER THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF REWRITES?

MEDUSA'S HAIR OF ASPS

Were her many "Sentinel outposts" manned by her faithful Gorgons really her eyes and ears from the Horizon to Horizon and beyond.

THE SENTINEL OUT POST HAD ONE EYE

This was a mirrored shield that the Gorgons would blink messages to Medusa and to other sentinels outposts that allowed for direct communication with Medusa. The mirrored shields were called Eyes or Cyclopes (sorry that word Cyclopes means a piece of copper with a bright finish not a one eyed monster ) and the Egyptians called them Ra-Hararkhte: Horus of two horizons. These were Quicksilver coated copper shields/disks


TO LOOK UPON MEDUSA
WAS TO BE TURNED TO STONE.

Because of the communication system which Medusa used with her faithful Gorgon Sentinels, she was able to keep a constant watch on strangers, merchant caravans, and enemy troop movements. Medusa could set up ambushes with her troops long before the unsuspecting visitor could even know that Medusa was aware of him. It must have seemed as if he was moving like a stone when events overtook him.

PERSEUS'S ADVISORS

Now Pereus had some smart advisors. They were the Nymphs "Smart young women" at least as smart as Clytemnestra. These Nymphs gave that young man some good advice.



CAPTURE A SENTINEL OUTPOST AND ITS BRIGHT SHIELD

The sentinel outpost had to be captured so that Peresus could use the sentinel Eye also known as a bright shield to tell Medusa that he, Peresus was moving away from Medusa when he was actually coming toward her.

CAPTURE THE CITY

Because Medusa was unaware of the approach of Peresus, her defenses were down. This was because she had grown to rely on the mirrors to blink a warning before an intruder could enter her city. This complacency made it easy for Peresus to walk in, and, with his IRON sword, defeat Medusa.

[Qoais]

"Pegasus"

The best snap shot of the uses of aspas is of the Hittite Winged Sun Disk is a bas-relief sculpture of three men holding the mirrored unit, which is found in the collection at the Metropolitan museum of arts. This sculpture has been dated to 2000 years Before Christ. That is a thousand years before Clytemnestra and Princess Entiu-ny. Two of the men in the relief are stabilizing the device and directing the reflective beam of light. The third is stabilizing the other two men arms. A round disk on a pole was used to blink the mirror reflection This is one of the small portable units used in battle and was carried on the backs of horses, just as General Crook used horses to transport his Heliograph to the top of the mountains Homer's Bellerophn found one of Medusa lost horses with a sun disk aboard with its wings folded over the horse's flanks. That is why Bellerophn named the horse and its load "Pegasus" and Bellerophn used Pegasus to defeat the Chimera.

Homer was BLIND and every thing he spoke of was from a blind mans perspective so you can not take him as an eye witness. When Homer was told of a horse with wings on its back that gave its owner an advantage in war: Homer explained it as a flying horse. The ancient translation of the word we pronounce Pegasus is “Aries PEG-ACE” Which is Aries : Mars the god of war, “PEG” which mean a “stratagem” and Mirrored pool and “ASPAS” the signaling bright shield

[Qoais]

The Mirrored eye of Horus

The Egyptians had a belief that if they would place a pool of ink into the hollow of their hand they could see the future (Chiromancy Hall-Quest P211-212): but it was not always ink, no in the distant past it was a pool of Quicksilver (Mercury). That shiny molten liquid metal in their hand would make a mirror and a face would gaze back at the seer. In Egyptian the word "Hor" translates to face, in English: ( Cyrstalink .com
In the distant past a refection of one's face? the reflection of the sun in a mirror.

The most impressive of all heliographic watchtowers is still standing the Great Pyramid of Giza four hundred and fifty feet tall with a platform. As I have mentioned, the means of transmission was a "Line of Sight" system and the machines to transmit that code were mirrors and beacon fires. The word Pyramid in Greeks: is broken down to "pyra” which means "beacon fire or lights" and "mid" or "metronto count or measure. The Hebrew word for pyramid is Urim-middin is "Urim" which means "lights" and "middin" to measure or count On top of The Pyramid on the back of the US one dollar bill has the Eye of Horus, that machine was a golden mirror that would be winked with a disk or eyelid on a stick to transmit the code.



PYRAMID TEXT
Page 117

"O Height which is not sharpened",

The Platform at the top of the Great Pyramid.

"Gate of the sky… Grasp the King by his hand and take the King
to the sky that he might not die on Earth."

A communication system flashing through the sky giving the King to have knowledge that could very well save his life

.COFFIN TEXT
Passage 148
I am Horus, the great Falcon upon the ramparts of the house of him of the hidden name.

A heliograph on the top (rampart) of the Great Pyramid.

My flights have reached the horizon.

Blinks of light “the message” could be read as far away as the horizon and be transmitted to the next horizon.

I have passed by the gods of Nut. I have gone further that the gods of old. Even the most ancient bird could not equal my very first flight.

Coded Blinks of light traveling at the speed of light beyond the horizon.

I have removed my place beyond the power of Set, the foe of my father Osiris.

[rockessence]

Qoais,

Terriffic!  What is the link for this?  Wiki?

[BlueHue]

"Pegasus"
 horses, just as General Crook used horses to transport his Heliograph to the top of the mountains Homer's Bellerophon found one of Medusa lost horses with a sun disk aboard with its wings . That is why Bellerophon named the horse  "Pegasus" to defeat the Chimera.
of a horse with wings on its back in war: as a flying horse. The ancient translation of the word we pronounce Pegasus is “Aries PEG-ACE” Which is Aries : Mars the god of war, “PEG” which mean a “stratagem” and Mirrored pool and “ASPAS” the signaling bright shield[IMG http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/Neo-HittiteWingedSunrelief.jpg[/img]

NICE conjecture QOAIS,

But the picture of two horned men or animals lifting a Sundisk with Wings from a groundtrodden person is a well known THEME in Egyptian creation Lore,  conserning the separation of the Heavens from Earth.      ( After the SintFLOOD had destroyed Atlantis.)here TWO Ram-headded persons (= Wind-God SHU. )lift the " Universe "/= fallen-Sky, in the form of NUT, from the reclined person called Geb(= earth.). . . . . in the original version.     The Assyrians used men with belt-tails and horned hats instead. the( the Double heaedded eagle was a symbol of south-wind the ZEPHYR of Frankincense.   PEG  or PIG means Elephant to me, because a Flying Horse was POSEIDON's steed or Hippocampos.

The Hyppocampos was a demonized( Flying-)Elephant and it is little known, that God/Planet  POSEIDON and Ares were identical, after a collision with a comet ( Dione ?)the water-planet Poseidon lost it's water by evaporation or a thaw-out freezing process, and became the arid Ares.(= Mars.)          

[Qoais]

Blue Hue, that is an interpretation that you accept, however, for myself, I'm looking for anything that makes sense.  We know the Egyptians always made something to look like something else, and they expressed themselves somewhat differently back then, as everything they did, they credited it to some God or other.

Rocky, I'll get back to you on your question.

[Qoais]

First when you view "Egyptian Art" they do not use "Three Point Perspective" they turn the important portions of their images out. Even if the part should behind the main portion of the picture. So you have to mentally refold the picture into three dimensions.
A process modern man has over come by the uses of "Three Point Perspective "

Now if you link to this site http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highl...p;retpage=15277

(Link doesn't seem to work)



You will notice the leg and talons that holds up the eye of Horus (tripod) however usually it is depicted as a thick line from the base of the eye with a curved line also part of the suspension of the device. You will also a "Long Eye Brow" that was the "Shutter"

If you look at this image imagehttp://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_image.aspx?image=ps267882.jpg&retpage=15276

Look at the end of the eye brow you will see vertical lines there . That brush would blink the golden mirror.

Now think of the Heliograph system from a "Standing Start" transmitting a message from Horizon to Horizon. That message could be sent and received before modern man's could even start the fastest supersonic jet.

"My flights have reached the horizon. I have passed by the gods of Nut. I have gone further that the gods of old. Even the most ancient bird could not equal my very first flight."

PS We get our word "Horizon" from the name "Horus"


My flights have reached the horizon.