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Plato's Atlantis My Theory


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Qoais
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« Reply #165 on: June 18, 2007, 06:17:07 pm »

The reason I'm trying to figure out just how far back in the past Atlantis was born is because I'm working on something else as well.  People keep saying there isn't a place on earth that hasn't been proposed for Atlantis, but there is one, and I'm trying to work it out.  But this location would definitely put the age of Atlantis back hundreds of thousands of years.  So I'm going slowly. Tongue
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« Reply #166 on: June 18, 2007, 10:09:45 pm »

Dear Qoais: May be the name of "Atlantis" is just made up.)plato says that already the place had another name..The Places name is taken from Tantalis story(in Turkey Smyrna_manisa)But As a description And geography fits in this Richat structure.I dont care what georgeos of Spain says..There is no inmdication whatsoever Atlantis was In Spain..may be it was an Island between Spain and Africa.Thats why mauritanio, Iberian empire..He cannot prove about the measurments.because In the critias it saysThe last Circle had 168 km.diameter(The water draningae circle)..So, the circle before that must have been 50 kilmeter diameter..It is in front of a river mouth..And Look at the surroundings in the Satellite picture It is Bluegreen algea..why should be a desrt place Blue green.did you pay attention to the land??As if something cut to two and Atlantis is in between..It is obvious that place was under water..than may be dried out again..I think the surrounding geography is really strange.As if pulled and Pushed or something like that.dont you think so??
And The rgions name is" Ad-ar".dont this remind you something?"the people of "Ad" I wonder The yemenites came from there.Herodot talks about two ethgiopias.I wonder one was in Mauritania first and second one is todays Ethiopia.And Then this people went to egypt and Built EGypt.. I dont know , I cannot prove anything unless someone digs out there ..
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« Reply #167 on: June 18, 2007, 10:40:35 pm »

And Look at the measurments:
"At the top of the central hill, a temple was built to honor Poseidon which housed a giant gold statue of Poseidon riding a chariot pulled by winged horses. It was here that the rulers of Atlantis would come to discuss laws, pass judgments, and pay tribute to Poseidon..

To facilitate travel and trade, a water canal was cut through of the rings of land and water running south for 5.5 miles (~9 km) to the sea.

The city of Atlantis sat just outside the outer ring of water and spread across the plain covering a circle of 11 miles (1.7 km). This was a densely populated area where the majority of the population lived.

Beyond the city lay a fertile plain 330 miles (530 km) long and 110 miles (190 km) wide surrounded by another canal used to collect water from the rivers and streams of the mountains. The climate was such that two harvests were possible each year. One in the winter fed by the rains and one in the summer fed by irrigation "
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Atlantis/story.html
Aint it fit in to the Richat structure?? outside ring is 300 miles..So It is big..

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Qoais
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« Reply #168 on: June 18, 2007, 11:38:28 pm »

Hi Julia
Yes there are a lot of neat correlations.  I'm still so confused about the size that it boggles my brain.  I was thinking too you know, about language.  Or shall I say, the pronunciation of a word by someone whose first language is different.  I don't know how different "Egyptian" in those days, was from Greek in those days, but I bet it was quite different.  What if the priest pronounced the word one way, and Solon wrote it down in HIS language, the WAY it sounded to him, but it wasn't that way at all?
Plato did say not to be surprised to hear Hellenistic names in the story, because Solon had asked the meaning of the names, and then wrote the names down in Greek for the Greek meaning.  He could have assumed what this word meant, and then wrote down what he thought it meant, and it might not even be close.

We have a mentally handicapped son, and years ago he kept saying "I want to see wah-dee-nee".  We could not for the life of us figure out what he wanted.  Then one day we're all watching TV and he says "See ? - wah-dee-nee".  We were watching Walt Disney!
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« Reply #169 on: June 19, 2007, 02:12:00 am »

If Atlantis was built on a salt dome, the Atlanteans had more than just convenience of water storage and irrigation.  It seems that where there are salt domes, there is petroleum and natural gas - how convenient - but also a beautiful white, alabaster type rock is formed which is great for carving.  Also, (altho the Atlanteans didn't have worry about freezing!) the springs from a salt dome don't freeze, but stay at a constant temperature because of the high salt content.  (Until they hit the frigid surface).

Hot springs in the High Arctic

(May 19, 2006)  Nunatsiaq News (Jane George)

Axel Heiberg’s salt domes mean running water, carving stone and maybe oil and gas

Imagine a spring flowing throughout the dark polar winter, when temperatures dip well below zero for months on end.

But this isn’t a fantasy: you can find springs like these on Nunavut’s Axel Heiberg Island, where, in some places, water emerges year-round out of ice and permafrost half a kilometre thick.

The springs’ water temperature remains constant, up to 6°C, regardless of the external air or ground temperature.

McGill University research expeditions first noticed these perennial springs near Expedition Fiord on Axel Heiberg in the 1960s. Dr. Wayne Pollard of McGill and his team have since detected and mapped about 40 similar springs on the island.

There are the only two other places in the world where springs of this type exist: in the La Popa Basin in Mexico and the Great Kavir Desert of Iran.

The origins of these springs go back to a time when the region lay on the bottom on an ancient, salty seabed 500 to 65 million years ago.

Even 55 million years ago, Axel Heiberg was a much warmer place, also home to sprawling forests of redwoods. The mummified remnants of some of these ancient forests can still be seen on the island’s Geodetic Hills.

The wet, warm climate of Axel Heiberg’s long ago past is gone, so the water that feeds today’s springs is melt or rain water, which sinks into the earth, or comes from deep underground. This water then returns to the surface through these salt deposits, as if squeezed through a toothpaste tube.

As a result, the water in these springs is salty, about five to 10 times as saline as seawater. The salt in this water ups the freezing point, allowing the water to remain in a liquid state all year round — or at least until it reaches the surface.

There are also other types of springs, which are high in sulphur or methane.

While the springs’ presence tells much about the warmer and turbulent geological past of Axel Heiberg, they may hold the key to the island’s warmer future, which could include gas or oil development.

That’s because these unusual springs are also associated with the presence of salt deposits, called salt domes or “salt diapirs.” Salt domes often signal the presence of gas and oil deposits in the vicinity, although these may lie very deep down.

“Where oil, gas and ground water occur under sheets of subsurface salt, there may be places where these fluids are trapped. If the oil and gas is abundant enough, then there is the chance for a commercial resource,” said Christopher Harrison of the Geological Survey of Canada, who has also studied diapirs in the High Arctic Islands. “This is a common setting for oil and gas in the Gulf of Mexico region where diapirs and salt sheets are also abundant.”

The Canadian Space Agency suspects that Axel Heiberg’s springs may reveal where past life existed on Mars. As these springs are warm, they contain live bacteria and other life forms, so they are considered to be similar to places where life may once have flourished on the now-frozen planet Mars.

Geologist Marcos Zentilli from Dalhousie University has CSA and other research money lined up to study the springs and salt domes. In July, Zentilli wants to return to Axel Heiberg to make better maps of the salt domes, collect hand-size samples of rocks within and around dome, and take measurements to estimate the growth of salt domes, which sometimes grow by as much as five cm a year.

But lack of logistical support from the Polar Continental Shelf Project and funding from International Polar Year, are making this research much harder to carry out.

“It’s our responsibility as scientists to understand more,” Zentilli says. “Where else can we find mountains that are actually growing?”

Zentilli also suggests the stone of alabaster quality, which is abundant near many of the domes, could be also used as an “inexhaustible source” of carving stone.

In the dry climate of the Arctic, summertime evaporation around the springs can lead to rock salt, gypsum and other less common minerals precipitating out of the water. The right combination of water and evaporation at a spring sometimes leads to large build-ups of unusual, brilliant white stone.

Last year, Resolute Bay carver Simeonie Amagoalik fashioned a piece of this stone into a seal, and found it fine to work with: yet another surprising by-product of Axel Heiberg’s unique springs and salt domes.
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Qoais
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« Reply #170 on: June 19, 2007, 02:25:30 am »

Originally posted by 3D:

Quote
Also the map showing the NW corner of Africa and the ATLAS mountains as an ISLAND is actually very close to being an accurate portrayal of the Lay of the Land in recent geological history

3D - do you have references for this?  That would be wonderful.
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DDDnD3D
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« Reply #171 on: June 19, 2007, 06:59:04 pm »

 * * * Hi Qoais * * * The map i was referring to was from June 14  reply # 136 that Julia submitted .
 it has your name in it . . . but i don't know where it originated ?
 Is it yours? Here it is :
 http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/VeryancientAtlantis.jpg

That is why i asked you why you dissected Africa the way you did on your WORLD MAP of your version of Ancient Geography ?
The NW corner of Africa is submerged on your version . . . eventho its a small detail on a world map . . . as an area of focus that we're all are engaging in . . . I believe it is very important to indicate the ATLAS mountains as an ISLAND  [ or peninsula ? ] when we portray or suggest the lay of the land from those ancient times. 
       If the entrance or ONE OF the entrances to the Western  Med was from the west coast of Africa around 21-22 degrees N. that is a very important piece of information. The Richat structure would become relevant ! **DnD**
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« Reply #172 on: June 19, 2007, 07:14:38 pm »

I knew you'd follow my thinking 3D.  Yes, I cut the map up and and I was trying to show that if the parts I've indicated were an island, as the old maps show, then there was another entrance to the Med other than Gibralter.  Therefore, the Richat Structure could have been the location of Atlantis.  I wanted more information on all this before I made my final conclusion, but it's coming out faster and faster!  You may recall that in Robert's Forum, I theorized that this city we're calling Atlantis may not have been a ground mounted city originally.  It could have been a flying craft such as the Vedas describe as being built like a temple.  That is how Plato describes the core.  If the originators were fleeing from a war or something, or even if they wanted to colonize the rest of the world and landed the craft there, they could have camoflaged it as a temple.  They could have built the rings to protect it from humans and animals until such time as they got a civilization built up.  Whoever they were, they lived long lives, if the Emerald Tablets of Thoth are true.  He was a remnant of the last destruction of Atlantis and flew East in his ship to "raise up the people of Khem" (Egypt).  Him and a few others.  If the ship was the central core of the circles, it will be gone of course, and supposedly he then buried it beneath the Sphinx.  Apparently at quite a depth.  But also apparently it will still be functionable for someone who knows how to use it.  I suspect that he was the last of the "good" guys, as he taught the Egyptians spirituality as well as technology and farming.  I think the last one in history, the one to lead Moses, was not so righteous.  He killed everything in his path to get a certain few people to a "promised" land.  Doesn't sound like a spiritually enlightened person to me.

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« Reply #173 on: June 19, 2007, 07:43:19 pm »

Between the Everburning Lamps that seemed to be powered by Mercury and the Vimanas that also used mercury, I think there is some element of mercury that we haven't tapped into. I had a lot more information on the Vimanas when I was posting in Robert Sarmast's site, but have lost it now. I did save some of my posts at one time so will check and see if I have still them.

After reading the Vedas , or what there is in English, and reading Sitchin's works, and checking out a number of things, I had started to think that the City of Atlantis was NOT a "city" at all. I was thinking that it was a rather large flying craft, that was either put down at a certain location for reasons of communications - like in a grid pattern - one to the other, then the next, etc. Or, it was a craft that had to leave it's origins and find a new home. Maybe that nuclear war ended most of the flying craft, and this one found it's way to the western side of the land mass, and set down there. Able to support life for a time until a real city was established, they circled it with water rings to keep out the humans and animals. These craft were built in copy of the gound-mount buildings, so it would look just like a temple. They definitely had the technology to bring up springs from the earth, and flying over the land would certainly give them a birdseye view of the best place to land and start a new life. I don't suppose there was all that many on board, so if there was no one on board who knew how to build water going craft, that would explain why it took so long to develop that invention. Evenutally, when they realized that their part of the world was breaking up, Thoth, or whoever - flew the thing to Egypt where he then buried it under the Sphinx.
(What ancient writer said that the temples of the Atlanteans were "barbarous looking? I'm sure I read that somewhere)
Was it not the innermost wall of the rings that had orichlcum? How do we know this actually came from the ground here on earth? The people who made these craft, if they came from another planet, would tell you this ore was mined, but if they didn't tell you it was mined on another planet, how would you know? Plato said it once existed, but now it's only a name. Perhaps because it didn't originate here on earth. The innermost wall would be the wall of the ship.

In Sitchin's works, the Anunnaki developed rice and grains worthy of eating from cross breeding the wild varieties they found here. Wheat is a manipulated grain. I don't know about rice. The Amazons did not eat grains because they hadn't been "discovered" yet by them.

Ahenaten had a wierd face. Very long, narrow, sunken and with strange long slanted eyes. It would not surprise me if he really was a direct decendant of these people with the flying craft - using a non-scientific term - a throw-back to what his ancestors could have looked like. He was highly entellectual and according to history was a spiritual person.

I always wondered why the Egyptians and no one else depict their gods with animal heads. Perhaps their heads looked different or something, and they wore "masks" for some reason. Maybe at first they wore breathing apparatus and this was designed and fashioned in the shape of something else. The Egyptians did that with everything. They couldn't just build a pillar - it had to look like something - mainly lotus flowers or whatever.
So - I figure Atlantis could have been the name of this flying craft - altho who knows what language it was in originally. We always name ships don't we?

The Vedas really confirm for me that there was still at least one flying craft around to lead Moses out of Egypt.
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« Reply #174 on: June 19, 2007, 08:08:30 pm »

I do think that Plato's story, however he got it, was originally a story by one of the Bok orators who travelled the earth to keep the colonies updated and taught the histories with the sound system.  In the movie "Roots" the American/African whose ancestors had been slaves had a verbal history of their tribe in Africa from before they were slaves.  Then the character in the book decides to go to Africa to see if he can find his originating tribe.  To do that, he had to listen for hours to a "rememberer" who told the history of the tribe from the beginning.  Every detail of everyone in the tribe, for hours.  He did discover his own heritage in the end.

I have been thinking that the world was different at the time of the real Atlantis, and the mix-ups come perhaps for a number of reasons.  Either Solon and Plato did belong to an elite society that were part of the line of rememberers, and weren't supposed to actually reveal the location, or he just copied something he thought he understood, and to describe what and where he THOUGHT Atlantis was, he used the vocabulary of his time.  I think that Iberia and the Atlas mountains and part of N.W. Africa, as well as England, Europe and the Scandinavian countries, were at one time, if not an island, then a giant nesos, or peninsula.  I believe they did at one time speak a language they could all understand, and even if dialects developed, the old language was re-taught or reminded to the people thru the sound system of the Bok Saga.

 

I have no doubt in my mind, that there was definitely an advanced technological society somewhere back in history, and bits and pieces of it are coming to light.  More and more now, as this groundswell of events builds to a climax.  The apex or eye of this storm shall we say, likely centres in Egypt.  It seems strange to me that the Directors of Antiquities of Egypt would build a 20 foot high wall around the Giza project at this late date.  If the pyramids are crumbling, and they don't or can't repair them, why spend all that money protecting them?  Supposedly, other than being a tourist attraction, they are useless.  Tourists would still be able to see them, if they pay to get through a gate, but how is paying a gate fee going to save the pyramids?  Personally, I believe the Egyptians know what's inside the pyramid, and it WILL change history when they finally reveal it. Once it IS revealed, the whole world will be on their doorstep and they want to be prepared.  All other countries will be demanding that they excavate the Giza complex so the whole world will know what has been hidden for so long.  As in the beginning, some will want to use the technology for war and devastation, so great care will have to be taken with whatever is discovered.
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Bianca
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« Reply #175 on: June 19, 2007, 08:18:02 pm »



Q:



                               

                                       V I M A N A S
                                       
                                        AERIAL VEHICLES OF ANCIENT INDIA
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Qoais
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« Reply #176 on: June 19, 2007, 08:21:13 pm »

I had mentioned that I was working on something else, but time is getting away on me and my chores here on the farm are suffering.  My husband is not in the best of health, so I have to cover some of his work also, and I'm spending way too much time on the computer.

Robsang Lampa had made a small mention of the fact that "Atlantis" was now buried under the mountains of Tibet.  If you haven't read Lampa's book, at least read the Chapter called Cave of the Ancients.  

Part of the reason I was trying to figure out the lay of the land was to find out just how old Atlantis really was.  In the maps I posted of the changing land masses, we see that the Med. was open and Tibet was almost on the edge of the shore.  This is a looong way back, and if it existed that far back in time, no one would believe it.  But the Cave of the Ancients is in Tibet, so it makes sense that the ancients would build a cave near where they were at the time, to create a time capsule for the future.  Obviously, the cave survived the ordeal better than did the city.  

Perhaps then, we have a number of civilizations that rose and fell, and perhaps one of these time capsules was found in the ancient past, when civilization had once again risen to the technological level to understand, and they too, built a time capsule for the future.
That future I think, is almost upon us.
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« Reply #177 on: June 19, 2007, 08:21:40 pm »



AN ANCIENT AIRPLANE
By R. Cedric Leonard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The ancient vimanas described in the Vedic and Puranic literature of India are so fabulous in their capabilities and construction, one might, with good reason, wonder if such things were actualities. However, we must keep in mind that for the most part they were the products of a civilization and technology foreign to this planet. However, good evidence does exist indicating that more modest versions were built in ancient times by the aeronautical engineers of India and a few other places.


A manuscript, composed in Sanskrit by King Bhoja in the 11th Century A.D., deals with techniques of warfare, and in particular with certain types of war machines. The work is called Samarangana Sutradhara, or "Battlefield Commander"(sometimes abbreviated "the Samar"), and the whole of chapter 31 is devoted to the construction and operation of several kinds of aircraft having various methods of propulsion.


King Bhoja, who used the Sanskrit term yantra more often than the more familiar vimana, claims his knowledge was based on Hindu manuscripts which were ancient even in his time. Some of the techniques of manufacture described therein have been in use by British and American aircraft companies since World War I, and have been found to be sound aeronautical principles even though described nearly a thousand years earlier in this old Sanskrit work. The word vimana is used only once in these passages, in spite of numerous appearances in some translations. In looking over the complete text, it is perfectly clear that several types of aerial machines are being described.
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« Reply #178 on: June 19, 2007, 08:27:24 pm »

dear Bianca and Qoais:
nothing is impossible.may be the Outer space people did visited us..Qoais We have to find out about History of the Richat structure to find out the truth.may be like you said It was built in WWI or @..Of course if it is anew thing we cannot say it is Atlantis..
Is there a history about it??
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« Reply #179 on: June 19, 2007, 08:30:48 pm »


                                            SAMARANGANA SUTRADHARA


Strong and durable must the machine's body be made of light material, having wings joined smoothly with invisible seams. It can carry passengers, it can be made small and compact, it can move in silence. If sound is to be used successfully, there must be great flexibility in the driving mechanism, and all must be put together faultlessly. In order for it to accomplish its intended purpose, it must last a long time, it must be well covered in . . . it must not become too hot, too stiff, nor too soft, and its sharp-pointed battering ram must also be long lasting. Indeed, the machine's main qualities, which are remembered by one and all, include unending motion, which is to say perpetual motion. Smoothness is one of the machines supreme qualities, thus, the workings of the machines is versatile, complete, not given to expansion, not complaining, and always suitable. . .


At this point the text becomes most interesting . . . but also the most difficult. It is evident that essential elements in the propulsion system are deliberately vague--or completely left out. The reason for this is explained later in the text. I can see why this has never appeared in any of the English translations. (The hiatus indicated by ". . ." involves about five Sanskrit words, and "expanding" is one of them, and "wished for" is another. I wish I could offer a more complete translation.)


At the critical time the beam of fire must be released, which will make the action possible. The time-beam expands, accompanied by sound . . . the expansion performs work like an elephant in an endless cycle.


Further along in the text is a paragraph which mentions using wood as a potential building material in the construction of a yantra; then jumps into a description of a propulsion system which may use a fuel similar to gasoline.


The manufacturing of a conquering yantra is greatly desired . . . using light-weight wood to build a great air-going machine of a strong-bodied type. In the central container is the liquid consumed by the engine, which gradually burns away during complete combustion.


Fully renown is the conquering of the following motions: Vertical ascent; Vertical descent; Forwards; Backwards; Normal ascent; Normal descent; Slanting; Progressing over long distances, through proper adjustment of the working parts . . . And its musical sound and throbbing thunder can easily drown out the trumpeting of the elephant in panic. It can be moved by musical tones.


Shining in every direction, their machine (yantra) could travel wherever the imagination dictated. From their great height they saw stimulating dances, drama plays, and pristine dance ceremonies. The machine gained renown among Royal dynasties and various nations. In such a manner the High-Souled ones flew, while the lower classes walked. All those friends succeeded in their much-deserved acquisition of a yantra, by means of which human beings can fly in the air, and non-earthling, Celestial Beings, can come down to mortals in their visits to Earth.


Some of the aircraft seemed to be winged like a modern aeroplane, but such a craft could not go backwards, nor could it ascend or descend vertically. No doubt, the term "dual-winged" appears in the following text in conjunction with some sort of air, or jet, propulsion.


. . .Thus inside one must place the Mercury-engine; and properly mounted beneath it, the iron heating apparatus. Men thusly set the dual-winged, driving whirlwind in motion. The concealed pilot, by means of the mercury-power, may travel a great distance in the sky.


What follows is the description of a much larger, more complex vimana (Note: this is the only place the word "vimana" is actually used in the text), which is powered by four mercury-engines.


An extremely swift and nimble vimana can be built, as large as the temple of the God-in-motion. Into the interior structure four strong mercury containers must be installed. When these have been heated by a controlled fire from iron containers, the flying machine develops thunder-power through the mercury, becoming a machine much to be desired. Moreover, if this iron engine with properly welded joints be filled with fluid (mercury?), when ascending or descending over land it develops power with the roar of a lion.


The machine's construction and operating details are not publicly disclosed. For if their motivative power became known expressly to others--giving out results described elsewhere--elements of these machines would be wrongly used.


My apologies to Sanskrit experts for any deficiencies in the rendering of Bhoja's text. The script is difficult, and some words are used which are now defunct. I have been as faithful to the original text as my ability allows. When I learn of errors, I will be prompt in inserting the necessary corrections. There are fairly long passages (represented by . . .) with which we are still struggling. (R.C.L.)

                                           
        Drawing of a small, delta-winged, Solar-Mercury powered "vimana" reportedly based on a medieval original.

                                         
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