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Plato's Atlantis My Theory


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Qoais
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« Reply #105 on: May 12, 2007, 01:25:52 am »

 
ANCIENT ALPHABETS COMPARED
By R. Cedric Leonard

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Have you ever wondered why our system of letters is called an alphabet? The word is merely the combination of the Greek names of the first two characters of the Greek alphabet, alpha and beta. But where did the Greeks get these names? Why call the letters alpha, beta, gamma, delta, etc., in the first place?


These are merely the Greek variation of the Phoenician names aleph, beth, gimel, deleth, etc., and these are actual words in the Phoenician language for ox, house, camel, door, etc. These names were most likely applied to the characters in this manner: 1) the characters were simplifications of earlier pictograms; 2) each character so-named was the sound for that original object (acrophonic principle).


For years the scholarly world had been in complete disarray when it came to the question of the origin of the characters. That the Greek alphabet (and most later European alphabets) is basically made up from the earlier Phoenician letters is clear. But the big question is, where did the Phoenicians get these letters?


For want of a plausible theory, Dr. Isaac J. Gelb, professor at the Oriental Institute and the Department of Linguistics of the University of Chicago, once suggested that the entire Phoenician system of signs was an arbitrary invention throughout. (Gelb, 1974) Even more recently, the discovery of the Proto-Sinaitic inscriptions in Egypt has been alleged as the sole source.


Let's take an entirely different tack. Let's assume the Glozel Tablets--now proven to be authentic, and infinitely older than the Phoenician (Cohane, 1977)--are the key to the puzzle. Let's make a comparison between several "western" systems and the Phoenician letters.

 
Table showing comparison with "western" alphabets dating back to 12,000 B.C.

The Azilian, Iberian and Berber character-sets all correspond somewhat to that found on the Glozel Tablets. The "Proto-Sinaitic" inscriptions discovered on cliffs near Luxor, Egypt may represent a contributing factor. And even though the correspondences of several of the characters with its associated "hieroglyphic original" seem somewhat strained, there is little doubt that certain Egyptian hieroglyphs contributed to the overall Proto-Canaanite system.


My contention is that the final Phoenician (an "eastern" system) was cribbed mainly from a "western". However it should be mentioned, that just as in the hieroglyph/sinai conversion, the character-shapes correspond--but not necessarily their phonic values.


Professor Johannes Friedrich, archeologist and linguist at the Free University of Berlin, implies that the Berber alphabet of North Africa may have been a relatively late invention--the earliest inscriptions appearing only in the 2nd century B.C.--therefore some of its characters may have been based on the Phoenician (Punic) script, rather than vice versa.


He writes: "The political and cultural independence of the Numidians manifested itself also in the creation of an alphabetic . . . script which has been preserved in our days in more than a thousand inscriptions." He adds: "A variant of this script is still being used today by the desert tribes of the Tuareg." (Friedrich, 1957) The independence spoken of was acquired with the backing of the Romans early in the 2nd century B.C.


But what about the inscriptions discovered among the Berbers of the Canary Islands? In 1878 French anthropologist Dr. Rene R. Verneau discovered rock carvings in the ravines of Las Balos that bear similarities with Libyan or Numidic writing from the time of Roman occupation or earlier. In other locations the older Libyco-Berber (T'ifinagh) script has been identified. (Verneau, 1881)

   
Three brief examples of Numidian script found inscribed on rock cliffs by Dr. Rene` Verneau.

Keep in mind that we are comparing several "western" (i.e., Glozel, Azilian, Iberian) with the alphabet supposedly INVENTED by the Phoenicians. The similarities are simply too great. The Phoenicians obviously did not invent their character-set known today as the "alphabet". I believe they discovered it (at least the idea, and possibly some elements) in their travels to the west from sources dating back at least 12,000 years (i.e., the Glozel and Azilian).


Just as a footnote to all this riggamaroll about characters and alphabets (included because this also is a fact not widely known to the man in the street), the early Biblical Hebrews, from about the time of King Solomon until after the Babylonian captivity, used the Phoenician alphabet. In other words, whether they wrote on parchment or inscribed on stone, they wrote utilizing Phoenician characters. One of the earliest known Hebrew inscription is the famed Moabite Stone (dated 9th Cent. B.C.). It is written in the Hebrew language, but with Phoenician characters. The so-called "Hebrew" or block characters so familiar to us moderns belong to the Aramaic alphabet, not the Hebrew.


To those of you who hung in there through all this jargon, I congratulate you. I hope I have stimulated some thinking in regards to alphabets and origins. Whether you agree with me or not, I think the link between the Glosel Tablets and Atlantis is reasonably solid. It just may be that we owe our form of writing to the lost Atlanteans of antiquity.
 

 
Bibliography

Cohane, John Philip, "Paradox," Crown Publishers Inc., New York, 1977.
Friedrich, Johannes, "Extinct Languages," (translated from German by Frank Gaynor) published by The
Philosophical Library, New York, 1957.
Gelb, I. J., "A Study of Writing," The University of Chicago Press, Chicago & London, 1974.
Verneau, Rene R., "Sur les anciens habitants de la Isleta, Grande Canarie," Bulletin of Social Anthropology,
Paris, 1881.


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« Last Edit: May 12, 2007, 01:31:10 am by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #106 on: May 12, 2007, 01:33:14 am »

Thanks Akelius
I was getting there!  Grin

What I like about this article also, is the straightforward way he just puts everything in it's place. 
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« Reply #107 on: May 16, 2007, 01:06:16 am »




Where to start?

Let's start with the time line - which I know nothing about! Grin  Diodorus Sicilus says he was copying older works when he wrote his books.  In his works, he talks about the Amazons and how they attacked their neighbors, the Atlantians.  I'm going to make the next line in caps because I think it's important.  WHEN THE AMAZONS ATTACKED THE ATLANTIANS, IT WAS WAAAY BACK WHEN THE ATLANTIANS WERE STILL A PEACEFUL SPIRITUAL PEOPLE.  So far back, that perhaps, whoever Diodorus is copying - in THEIR day, the edge of the Western world was today's Tunisia, and the western end of the Med. was considered part of the Oceanous.

Let's go to Plato - and HIS times.   In his times, the western world has now stretched to the ends of the continents and he knows Spain is Spain etc.  Plato says Atlantis is larger than Libya and Asia.  Well, if you consider that the whole Western side of Africa was Atlantis, then yeah - it would be bigger.  In my copy of Plato, it says that Eumelous' portion "faced" what was in Plato's time Gades.
That would be the "extremity" of Atlantis of course, since Atlantis was at the end of the Western world.  The western extremity of the western extremity, was Morocco.

I don't know where all these other people came from, like the Amazons and the Gorgons, etc. but Siculus says that the Amazons fought the Gorgons on one of the borders of Atlantis, on behalf of the Atlanteans.  IF and it's a big IF, the Amazons originated where we now call LAKE TRITONIS, then they fought their neighbors on the west (the Atlanteans), and then they continued on in their conquests, across Libya, made friends with the Egyptians, fought the Arabs, and swung around to Turkey and the Greek islands, building cities wherever they went.

Then along comes Hercules, and takes on their main base at Cherronesus, wipes it out, and puts up some pillars to comemmorate his exploits.  Cherronesus ends up sunken in the water, (as do the pillars).  Somewhere in here, the Atlanteans are turning to their dark side, and they take control of Libya to the borders of Egypt, and also Italy.  Not hard to do if they have THEIR main city on a then NESOS (nose) with their temple hill being in the vicinity of Malta.  Which was a man-made island- cut thru with canals, so they could egress out either side.   The western end of the Med would be considered part of the ocean, since it was open, but the eastern end was a harbour.  They COULD sail the ocean - if they could get to it, which it seems, they used to do, before Atlantis sunk causing a mud blockage.

After that part of Atlantis sunk, the Western end of the world became Gibralter.  I've always maintained that the time line is important, because to me, Plato goes back and forth in time - like a flash-back in a movie.  So - if Atlantis was this super large country with the best part being around Malta, then Nikas would be right in saying that the Temple city is in the water there.  It makes a lot of sense to me (other than that Siculus says the Amazons city was at the Atlas mountains) but I don't know exactly where the mountains end, and maybe there was a bit of confusion over that in ancient times as well.  The Lady of Elks (or however it's spelled) was found I believe in the South eastern part of Spain.  Makes sense if she was an Atlantean noble. 

The way I read Plato - was that Eumelous was given the extremity of Atlantis - that point furthest away from Egypt - as the story is being told - but that HIS portion faced a country which was eventually named after him - Gades.  Whether he took it over and annexed it, (must have, since the Atlanteans controlled all the way to Italy) and perhaps, he named it after himself or whether he was just a great guy and it was named after him, who knows?   Perhaps the Lady of Elks was of his family line, and they ruled from the southern shores.



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« Reply #108 on: May 16, 2007, 04:02:47 am »

Just a bit of a repeat here, but maybe a bit more coherent:

Once upon a very loooong time ago, the "Gods" divided the earth amongst themselves. (According to Plato)
So - does that mean the whole planet? I would say yes, since these Gods seemed to need a lot of room, and also seemed to be constantly fighting each other and we see ruins in all parts of the world. From reading about these "gods" they were beyond "super" human, so what were they? What were the ancients calling "gods"? Some being(s) that had incredible knowledge and powers of some sort.

Ok - so Poseidon got his territory, and who knows how many gods there were in the very beginning? So let's say one god got South America, Poseidon got Atlantis, and whatever other Gods there were, divied up the rest of the world equally. Or picked choice locations for themselves at least. (Seems they all picked waterfront property anyway)!

Ok - so at the very beginning, we're concerned with Poseidon - and he marries Cleito, and has a bunch of kids. Time moves on, and these families go forth and multiply - but keep the spiritual and lawful ways their "god-father" taught them.

Now wherever this land was, it seems to have been front and centre in the "eventual" civilized world, since they received goodies from all the surrounding countries.

Time moves on, things develop. Boats are invented, horses are used, the wheel is discovered, etc. SOMEWHERE in time, other peoples develop. From where? Well, they must have developed from one of the other "gods" since apparently that was all there was in the beginning. Gods. Also somewhere in time, back when the Atlanteans were still in their peaceful mode, the Amazons were not - and they attacked the Atlanteans - their neighbors. Then, after the Atlanteans said "Hey, we concede - just don't wreck all our cities", the Amazons made friendly with the Atlanteans and fought the Gorgons, on one of Atlantis' borders. Now how many borders does an ISLAND have? Hee Hee - one! BUT - if we accept that the word used was Nesos - meaning - well, all those things that were mentioned before, then we'd have a peninsula, and a peninsula is joined to a mainland. Diodorus describes the land of the Amazons, and it compares very nicely to the land of the Atlanteans, will all the good food, and precious stones, etc.
So - there may be a little confusion as to exactly where the Amazons originated, but Diodorus says the island of Mene, which supposedly was in Lake Tritonis, in what is now Tunisia. Makes sense - especially if they attacked their neighbors to the west. The Atlanteans. Then the Amazons carry on, and make forays against the Libyans, they get to Egypt where they make friends with the ruler of the day, fight the Arabs, and continue on around the eastern end of the Med. till they get to Turkey and the Greek islands, putting up cities as they go.

Now while queen Myrina of the Amazons, is off doing these excursions into other lands, along comes Hercules to their home city of Cherronesus, and razes it to the ground. He puts up pillars to commemmorate his deed, but lo and behold, if Cherronesus doesn't end up in the brink, along with the Pillars of Hercules.

Stopping here for a moment - we have to picture Plato's story like a modern day movie that does flash-backs. Sometimes he is talking at his own time line, and sometimes he is talking about things in the ancient past.

Somewhere along the time line, the Atlanteans start turning to their dark side, and take control of Europe to Italy, and Libya to the borders of Egypt.

Trying to follow this bouncing time line then - at one time, the borders of the western world were Atlantis and Amazonland. Therefore the borders of the western world way back, was at modern Tunisia. Africa was joined to Sicily with a land bridge. When the city of the Amazons sunk, along with Hercules' pillars, this now left the Med open and the western extremity of the world became Gibralter. Since THAT time, whenever it was, the western extremity of the world was referred to as the Pillars of Hercules, that were recognizable to Plato as such.

Yes - in Plato's day, they called the Straits of Gibralter, the Pillars of Hercules - and even before his day. BUT - somewhere in time, the Pillars of Hercules - denoting the western extremity of the known world, were at Tunisia. Even the Egyptians didn't know their land was on a huge continent until they sent out an expedition to find out. As someone pointed out to me, lands were called "islands" or peninsulas, that hadn't been sailed all the way round, therefore, if one sees nothing but water for thousands of miles, they think they're on an island. So in VERY ancient times, perhaps even when the Egyptians FIRST got the story, they thought Atlantis was an island, when perhaps instead, it was a mainland with very large peninsulas sticking out from it.

I think - that being the story was old even to the Egyptians, that the western end of the Med., was considered at the time of the story - to be part of the ocean. It would seem so to anyone on the inside of the landbridge at Sicily. If nothing else, once you were in the western Med, you certainly could navigate the ocean. And it would seem that they DID navigate it before Atlantis sunk, causing that shoal of mud. Those on the eastern end of the Med, were cut off for a while.

So taking into consideration the bouncing time-line, the confusion about island and peninsula, the story of the Amazons vs. the Atlanteans, the goodies arriving in Atlantis from the surrounding countries and the grand finale being this supposed war started by the Atlanteans against the Athenians and Egyptians "at a blow", I contend that Atlantis WAS not an island, but a peninsula of the mainland of Africa, with it's temple city in the vicinity of Malta. In this theory, it was definitely bigger than Libya and Asia "together" not between the two. For the simple fact that Atlantis was probably the whole western "Nesos" of Africa.

PLEASE REMEMBER I AM NOT DOING THIS SCIENTIFICALLY AND HAVE NOT PROVEN ANYTHING WITH EVIDENCE OR OTHERWISE. I AM SIMPLY PUTTING TOGETHER ALL THE INFORMATION I'VE COME ACROSS.

In my version of Plato, it says that Eumelous was given the extremity of the territory "facing" what Plato in his day, knew as Gades. That Gades, was named after Eumelous. Or - as some would have it, "beside" Gades, or "across from". Means all the same thing to me. I would say that Eumelous annexed Gades as part of his territory when they started expanding their control. Therefore, yes, way back in the beginning, Eumelous being of the first genration and being an Atlantean, annexes Gades and makes it a part of Atlantis.
If - to the Eastern Med. peoples, anything west of the landbridge at Sicily was called "ocean", then the only place that could become a shoal of mud blocking them off, was at Malta. Where the City of Atlas (Atlantis) was buried in the water and mud.
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« Reply #109 on: May 16, 2007, 02:32:08 pm »

Qoais,

RE: "Once upon a very loooong time ago, the "Gods" divided the earth amongst themselves. (According to Plato)
So - does that mean the whole planet? I would say yes, since these Gods seemed to need a lot of room, and also seemed to be constantly fighting each other and we see ruins in all parts of the world. From reading about these "gods" they were beyond "super" human, so what were they? What were the ancients calling "gods"? Some being(s) that had incredible knowledge and powers of some sort.

Ok - so Poseidon got his territory, and who knows how many gods there were in the very beginning? So let's say one god got South America, Poseidon got Atlantis, and whatever other Gods there were, divied up the rest of the world equally. Or picked choice locations for themselves at least. (Seems they all picked waterfront property anyway)!"



The Bock saga tells that the earth was populated by kings and queens sent across the planet by the Aser in Hel (now Helsinki) in Oden-ma at the north pole, long before Ice-time (beginning about 55 million years ago-according to it's reckoning).  When the Ice-time began, those populations were cut off from the contact and information system which had been constantly in use for countless thousands of years, and which kept a world-wide system active.  The word "god" originally meant "good", as we know it.

By the time Plato heard and related the story (in relatively modern times) it had naturally changed almost totally. 

Studying the Bock material tends to deeply expand into the past the sense of what is "modern".

By the way, I think it was ten kings and queens which travelled out from Hel.   Maybe that number is residually remembered in relation to the 10 kings of Atlantis?

Also, at the end of Ice-time, about 10,000+ yrs ago, the Aser who had survived the duration, sent emissaries out to the 10 kingdoms to try to re-establish the old information system.  In the Med. region they were known as the Hyperboreans, across the world were reports from every culture of their arrival.   The name, a sort of "diplomat", they were called by the Aser was Han-u-man, a name which survives in India.

These "diplomats" discovered a vastly different world than their ancestors had left, kingdoms which condoned war, tyranny, slavery, and every sort of destructive activity.  They carried the message of the old way which survives to this day as the "Golden Rule".

Another thought, If it is the case that the story was related through Egyptian perception, how would they have described ice, the sliding ice-sheet which drove the surviving Aser into the water, or the grinding glacier which stripped the whole of Hel down to bed-rock and into the sea??
« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 02:56:45 pm by rockessence » Report Spam   Logged

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Thus ye may find in thy mental and spiritual self, ye can make thyself just as happy or just as miserable as ye like. How miserable do ye want to be?......For you GROW to heaven, you don't GO to heaven. It is within thine own conscience that ye grow there.

Edgar Cayce
Qoais
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« Reply #110 on: May 16, 2007, 03:26:31 pm »

Hi Rock
I think 55 million years is pushing it a bit. 
NOT that I believe everything scientists tell us, but so far, these frozen bodies they've been finding in the ice, are a little more recent than that! Smiley

In the ancient beliefs, there were "gods" that stuck their noses in the affairs of men, fought in human wars, played favorites, etc.  What were these beings?  If the Aser were just "good", that does not give them the attributes of the "gods" described in the legends. I can see that being isolated, and with nothing to do but keep warm and put food on the table  Grin they had time to raise their levels of consciousness much like it is explained the Tibetan Lamas do.  When one has attained that higher level, apparently one can DO a lot more things than we normal mortals. Like using the mind to lift heavy items, communicate with mental telepathy, etc. Therefore, they would appear to be "gods" to the under-developed.  But where did it come from, that one could pray to a God for it's benevolence, or assistance in a war, or bless the crops or whatever?  How would these Gods "hear" these prayers?  There's a giant leap here, from being "good" and teaching ways of righteousness, to being prayed to for everything under the sun.  Ok, some of the original Aser people eventually split up, and we have Denmark and Sweden and the other Scandinavian countries.  Over time, they also became egotistical and greedy and selfish, but that didn't make them "super" beings that could hear prayers from miles away, or lift a hand to ensure success in any given battle thousands of miles away.  Something is missing here. 
What sticks out as obvious to me - that's missing - is technology.
How did the original Aser people contact say the colony in South America?  How did the messenger after say several thousand years go by, know how to even get to the colonies?  And  how did they physically  get to the colonies?  We would have to accept then, that the technology of the day - (maybe not 55 million years ago) but SOMEWHERE in the past, the technology was available for them to make contact, and for them to travel great distances.  Let's pretend for instance, that one of the colonies - like Atlantis - was totally destroyed by a cataclysm.  How would the Aser know that?  How would they know the way wasn't closed off by some other catastrophe?  And yet - apparently - according to legends all over the world - the messenger did come.  Perhaps they were so advanced to a higher consciousness - as Thoth in the emerald tablets says - that they could leave their bodies behind, and re-manifest somewhere else.  Like Melchizadek in the Bible "who was not born"?
 
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« Reply #111 on: May 16, 2007, 09:26:48 pm »

Qoais,

To address a few of your statements and questions...

As to 55 million years... The Aser saga describes a long "golden age" called PA RA DIS ET or "Paradise time" which was ended by the 1st Ragnarok (total destruction) 55 million years ago.  That is what the saga says.   I offer one strong confirmation of that date, that Baltic amber dates to the same time.   It is the oldest amber on the planet.  Amber comes from the resin of semi-tropical conifers that were crushed under immense weight for millions of years.

As to bodies in the ice, are you referring to humans or the famous mastodon?  Certainly there have been many many backs and forths of the ice, identified as different "ice ages"....  The area that trapped the Aser, (south Finland) was finally cleared 10,000 years ago.

You were right on about the ice-olation raising conciousness, surely.... but I am wondering if you are saying above that the "gods" could actually DO all the things that was said of them?  We may never know if they could dematerialize.... but we are learning that their prowess as sailors keeps going back further and further.
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Edgar Cayce
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« Reply #112 on: May 16, 2007, 10:14:39 pm »

Hi Rock
Quote
but we are learning that their prowess as sailors keeps going back further and further.
Yes - and then it seems like a lot of other died-in-the-wool theories are changed over and over as well, until one doesn't know what the heck was going on. 

When there was a first golden age, does the Saga say that there were humanoids on the earth at that time, or that the earth itself, was a paradise, waiting for habitation?  I realize there were several ice ages, and I knew about the amber, but how can one know if amber is 55 million, or 55 thousand years old?  I know they can test the trees and stuff I guess, so if the amber is in the tree, I suppose it's confirmation.

I was referring to the human bodies, since scientists keep changing the time line on when we developed. I think it's funny in a way.  In the other forum I was debating about the pyramids possibly being made of poured concrete (or something similar) and got accused of saying it was a fact, over and over.  Then I got called a cultist wierdo because I posted a few times on the subject.  But it's the scientists that always come out and say "we have discovered such and such and it's a fact, cut in stone", and next week another scientist will do the same thing.  Especially when it comes to dating things.  I had never said poured concrete was a fact myself.  Maybe some of the stuff I copied did, but that wasn't me, I was just putting the info out there.

The gods in the legends certainly were given a lot of credit for being able to do incredible feats, and I go back to (without sounding toooo repititious,) the Bible and the Ark of the Covenant.  Moses kept going in to it and communicating with it.  Saying God was telling him what to do.
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« Reply #113 on: May 17, 2007, 12:31:49 am »

Qoais,

Here are a couple of sites:

www.bocksaga.de    www.bocksaga.com

Yes, the saga says the Aser populated the earth starting at the north pole when the planet was perpendicular to the sun.   It was MUCH later that the 1st Ragnarok ocurred, probably resulting from a meteor strike, ending the Paradise time and beginning "Alt-land-is" (all the land is ice).
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Thus ye may find in thy mental and spiritual self, ye can make thyself just as happy or just as miserable as ye like. How miserable do ye want to be?......For you GROW to heaven, you don't GO to heaven. It is within thine own conscience that ye grow there.

Edgar Cayce
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« Reply #114 on: May 17, 2007, 02:14:09 am »

Thanks Rockessence, I've been to those sites, and I think there's another one as well, I'd have to go back in the posts to look it up.  I don't think I've read the whole Saga tho.  Was going to order the sound tapes, but didn't get around to it.
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« Reply #115 on: May 18, 2007, 12:04:09 am »



I've been trying to check up a bit on the Amazons, because I've still got that bouncing time-line in my head, and it may just be that if I go with the assumption that the peoples in the Eastern Med., considered the Amazons and Atlanteans as being at the western edge of the world at some point in time, it will help place things in their proper location.  When you think about it, the Atlas mountains kind of kept people hemmed in on the eastern land side, and the desert kept them hemmed in to the south.  People on the Morocco side either had to trek the mountains or go by boat.

Ok - so folks say that it is mentioned in history that the Amazons had something to do with Lake Tritonis (Tritonis marsh according to Diodorus)

Here's an article I found regarding this:

Chott Djerid - the legendary Lake Tritonis
Ancient geography:

The ancient knowledge of geography has been handed down to us by Claudios Ptolemaios (2nd century AD).  According to him the lake Tritonis name Palus Tritonis is the third of a row of lakes (Palus Pallas, Palus Libya), which are connected with a river Triton.  This river empties into the Mediterranean Sea some miles north of Tacapae.  Tacapae is indentical with the today's city Gabes.  Consequently, the lake Tritonis must be in this salt lake basin which stretches from the Mediterranean Sea at Gabes to the west.  We know that still in antiquity the climate in this region was much moister, thus there was much more water, so we have to assume that they were real lakes.  Today the salt lakes only fill with water after much rain mostly in winter.  According to Ptolemaios the Tritonis was the third lake.  Today we distinguish the salt lakes Chott Fedjadj, the large Chott Djerid and then the Chott el Rharsa (also: el Gharsa).  Due to this the hott el Rharsa must be the lake Tritonis.  Actually, there is an unambiguous hint.  According to Ptolemaios next to the lake Tritonis there is a place named Thusuros, which is undoubtedly identical the the today's city Tozeru.  This town is situated at the Chott Djerid.  Thus it is clear, which was always certain in antiquity - that the Chott Djerid is identical with the legendary lake Tritonis.  The detail that the Tritonis was the third lake can easily be explained that in the moister period the extended Chott Fedjadj was divided into two basins.  Even today there is a special name for the western part of the Chott Fedjadj - Chott Faraoun.

Presumable position of the island Hespera respectively Phla:
Between the salt lake basins of Chott Djerid and Chott el Rharsa there protrudes an extensive elevation from the surrounding landscape.  It stretches from Nefta in the west across Tozeur, the main place, to El Hamma du Djerid in the northeast and Degache in the southeast.  At Degache there starts the wide basin of the Chott Djerid, at El Hamma the landscape drops into the hott el Rharsa basin.  In fact, this special region is enclosed to the east by a mountain chain named Cherb, to the south and north by the salt lake basins, and in the west at Nefta it ends in the desert.  The unity of the region gives the impression of an island.  Actually, this landscape is the only inhabited area for many miles around.  Therefore the identification of this secluded region with the island Herspera or Phla seems plausible.




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« Reply #116 on: May 18, 2007, 12:45:54 am »

Actually, I didn't realize the Atlas Mountains came so far East.  In the ancient times, I can now see where they would think that the land bridge at Sicily was a demarcation line, for their world.  Who would want to try to get farther west by hiking thousands of miles thru the mountains, or a blistering hot desert?  Only the nomads I guess.  So - if we place the Amazons at or near Gabes and they attacked their neighbors the Atlanteans, who were even more "western" than they were, the Atlaneans had to have been all along the north and west coasts of Africa and possibly in Spain as well.  However, it is possible that the lay of the land was a bit different back then than now, tho I wouldn't have a clue as to HOW different.  Diodours does say tho, that an earthquake caused the marsh Tritonis to disappear when those parts of it that toward the ocean were torn asunder.

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55. Now as the Amazons, they go on to say, relaxed their watch during the night because of their success, the captive women, falling upon them and drawing the swords of those who thought they were conquerors, slew many of them; in the end, however, the multitude poured in about them from every side and the prisoners fighting bravely were butchered one and all. Myrina accorded a funeral to her fallen comrades on three pyres and raised up three great heaps of earth as toms, which are called to this day "Amazon Mounds". But the Gorgons, grown strong again in later days, were subdued a second time by Perseus, the son of Zeus, when Medusa was queen over them; and in the end both they and the race of the Amazons were entirely destroyed by Heracles, when he visited the regions to the west and set up his pillars in Libya, since he felt that it would ill accord with his resolve to be the benefactor of the whole race of mankind if he should suffer any nations to be under the rule of women. The story is also told that the marsh Tritonis disappeared from sight in the course of an earthquake, when those parts of it which lay towards the ocean were torn asunder.

As for Myrina, the account continues, she visited the larger part of Libya, and passing over into Egypt she struck a treaty of friendship with Horus, the son of Isis, who was king of Egypt at that time, and then, after making war to the end upon the Arabians and slaying many of the, she subdued Syria; but when the Cilicians came out with presents to meet her and agreed to obey her commands, she left those free who yielded to her of their free will and for this reason there are called to this day the "Free Cilicians". She also conquered in war the races in the region of the Taurus, peoples of outstanding courage, and descended through Greater Phrygia to the sea; then she won over the land lying along the coast and fixed the bounds of her campaign at the Caicus River. And selecting in the territory which she had won by arms sites well suited for the founding of cities, she built a considerable number of them and founded one which bore her own name, but the others she named after the women who held the most important commands, such as Cyme, Pitana, and Priene.


Depending on the time line, or the different time lines we should look at - one being the time-line of Atlantis itself, as apparently it was an "original" area, as in being there when the Gods divided up the land.  So - if we are going THAT far back, then the Med, wasn't the way it is now.  Apparently at one time, the western end of the Med. was actually a lush plain.  Also at one time, the Sahara desert was a lake.  When the Straits of Gibralter opened, the same seismic activity caused a split in the floor of the lake, and the water drained away.  So if you can imagine that the western end of the Med was like a plain - in other words dry land, bordered on the South by the Atlas mountains, but that there was water where the Sahara now is, then in very ancient times The area from Morocco east to Tunisia, then NE to Tyrrenia, then North to France and Germany, and then west again to Spain, would have been the "island" of Atlantis. 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 01:02:19 am by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #117 on: May 18, 2007, 01:23:38 am »

According to the Urantia Book the Straits of Gibralter opened 34,000 years ago.  Since Atlantis was a God's kingdom, from day one, I have to assume the Atlaneans were established at that time.  So I played with a map, and changed the look of the area so the western Med is dry, and the Sahara is a lake.  (I don't know how big that "lake" would have been)  So maybe, the first break-up of Alantis was when the Straits opened:



IF the land was something like that, then we can see that Georgeos would be correct regarding the "exremity" (the northwestern most corner) belonging to Eumelous, would be what is now the Iberian Peninsula.  We could also see, that it would be possible for Nikas to be correct in his location of the "Royal" city at Malta.  When the straits opened, according to the Urantia Book, the was THE most severe catastrophe the earth had experienced and the loss of life was immense.  The whole landscape was altered.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 01:32:12 am by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

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« Reply #118 on: May 18, 2007, 01:49:16 am »

I can't remember where I got this from, but was just cleaning out "my pictures" and came across it:

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« Reply #119 on: May 18, 2007, 02:02:20 am »

Nice work, Qoais, I especially like the graphics.

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Diodours does say tho, that an earthquake caused the marsh Tritonis to disappear when those parts of it that toward the ocean were torn asunder.

I remember Riven once had a secondary theory once that the demise of Lake Tritonis was the source of the Atlantis myth.  It almost fits, provided that you believe that both Plato and Diodorus were writing about the same people.
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