Atlantis Online
October 27, 2020, 08:09:16 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Update About Cuba Underwater Megalithic Research
http://www.timstouse.com/EarthHistory/Atlantis/bimini.htm
 
  Home Help Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Plato's Atlantis My Theory


Pages: 1 ... 134 135 136 137 138 139 [140] 141   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Plato's Atlantis My Theory  (Read 55857 times)
rockessence
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1688


Using rocks and minerals to heal the earth and us.


WWW
« Reply #2085 on: July 02, 2010, 02:31:12 am »


Do you believe Schliemann found Troy?  Do you believe that the city he found, was the Troy of the Trojan War?

If so, then you believe what Homer said.  Yes?

Well, Homer said the Phaeacians(not to be confused with Phoenicians) had ships that themselves understood what people were thinking.  Do you believe that also?
although your questions relate to the "airship" specific... I am piqued by your first ...about Schliemann and his city....  I am one who has followed Felice Vinci's brilliant arguments concerning those exact questions..  and the far wider proofs that he has now published some years ago.  I am mystified why more scholars have not taken the opportunity to consider his work as a water-shed event of huge significance.  Here is a bit of his essay I posted here a long time ago...
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,606.0.html

this is a bit of the essay and the essay is a bit of a precursor to the published book.. now in several languages, including Russian.

"Let us look for the region of Troy now. In the Iliad it is located along the Hellespont Sea, which is systematically described as being «wide» or even «boundless». We can, therefore, exclude the fact that it refers to the Strait of the Dardanelles, where the city found by Schliemann lies. The identification of this city with Homer's Troy still raises strong doubts: we only have to think of Finley's criticism in the World of Odysseus. It is also remarkable that Schliemann's site corresponds to the location of the Greek-Roman Troy; however, Strabo categorically denies that the latter is identifiable with the Homeric city (Geography 13, 1, 27). On the other hand, the Danish Medieval historian Saxo Grammaticus, in his Gesta Danorum, often mentions a population known as «Hellespontians» and a region called Hellespont, which, strangely enough, seems to be located in the east of the Baltic Sea. Could it be Homer's Hellespont? We can identify it with the Gulf of Finland, which is the geographic counterpart of the Dardanelles (as both of them lie northeast of their respective basins). Since Troy, as we can infer from a passage in the Iliad (XXI, 334-335), lay North-East of the sea (further reason to dispute Schliemann's location), then it seems reasonable, for the purpose of this research, to look at a region of southern Finland, where the Gulf of Finland joins the Baltic Sea. In this area, west of Helsinki, we find a number of name-places which astonishingly resemble those mentioned in the Iliad and, in particular, those given to the allies of the Trojans: Askainen (Ascanius), Karjaa (Caria), Nästi (Nastes, the chief of the Carians), Lyökki (Lycia), Tenala (Tenedos), Kiila (Cilla), Raisio (Rhesus), Kiikoinen (the Ciconians) etc. There is also a Padva, which reminds us of Italian Padua, which was founded, according to tradition, by the Trojan Antenor and lies in Venetia (the «Eneti» or «Veneti» were allies of the Trojans). What is more, the place-names Tanttala and Sipilä (the mythical King Tantalus, famous for his torment, was buried on Mount Sipylus) indicate that this matter is not only limited to Homeric geography, but seems to extend to the whole world of Greek mythology.

What about Troy? Right in the middle of this area, halfway between Helsinki and Turku, we discover that King Priam's city has survived the Achaean sack and fire. Its characteristics correspond exactly to those Homer handed down to us: the hilly area which dominates the valley with its two rivers, the plain which slopes down towards the coast, and the highlands in the background. It has even maintained its own name almost unchanged throughout all this time. Today, Toija is a peaceful Finnish village, unaware of its glorious and tragic past."


Report Spam   Logged

ILLIGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM

Thus ye may find in thy mental and spiritual self, ye can make thyself just as happy or just as miserable as ye like. How miserable do ye want to be?......For you GROW to heaven, you don't GO to heaven. It is within thine own conscience that ye grow there.

Edgar Cayce
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #2086 on: July 02, 2010, 10:12:53 am »

Thank you Rocky!!!!

I knew I'd read that somewhere.  I didn't believe Troy was where Schliemann supposedly found it, but I could not remember where I read about it's probably location in the north.  Also, the route of the Argonauts seemed not to make sense either.  It makes more sense if they traveled north and came to the land where the sun never set.  When I was looking for where the Pillars of Hercules were located originally, since it appeared that the Greeks did not know the lay of the land in the Western end of the Med. at the time of Heracles,  it was logical to deduct that they had to be somewhere else!  They were supposedly a marker, that was like a notification to travelers saying "You can go no further".  If I could remember where I read all this stuff, I'd link it, but the original Pillars of Heracles may have been in the north where there is a deep chasm between two of the Scandinavian countries and you cannot get through.  I could go back in this thread and find it no doubt, but even I don't feel like doing that!!

The point is, the ancient writers didn't always write the truth.  Just because they say it's the truth, doesn't mean it is. 

So - do we believe Homer and his mind reading ships?

Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
rockessence
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1688


Using rocks and minerals to heal the earth and us.


WWW
« Reply #2087 on: July 03, 2010, 03:39:42 am »

Thank you Rocky!!!!

I knew I'd read that somewhere.  I didn't believe Troy was where Schliemann supposedly found it, but I could not remember where I read about it's probably location in the north.  Also, the route of the Argonauts seemed not to make sense either.  It makes more sense if they traveled north and came to the land where the sun never set.  When I was looking for where the Pillars of Hercules were located originally, since it appeared that the Greeks did not know the lay of the land in the Western end of the Med. at the time of Heracles,  it was logical to deduct that they had to be somewhere else!  They were supposedly a marker, that was like a notification to travelers saying "You can go no further".  If I could remember where I read all this stuff, I'd link it, but the original Pillars of Heracles may have been in the north where there is a deep chasm between two of the Scandinavian countries and you cannot get through.  I could go back in this thread and find it no doubt, but even I don't feel like doing that!!

The point is, the ancient writers didn't always write the truth.  Just because they say it's the truth, doesn't mean it is. 

So - do we believe Homer and his mind reading ships?



Olof Rudbeck, in the mid 1600s, while working on his proofs of Atlantis being located in Sweden, set his students to duplicate the feat told of in the story of the Argonauts.. of traversing a ship overland from one river to another across many miles in a certain space of time... which had long been(in his day) held as a proof that the story was fable/fiction... and they were successful!  He considered that the tale of the Argonauts was the oldest story of human adventure.. and had been misplaced as being in the Mediterranean... so he deduced what the rivers might be and worked from there.. taking into consideration the long distances reported in the story. Nowhere in the southern locations was this even possible to attempt, as the method required the use of certain slender tree trunks as rollers, and also of greasing the hull with a certain material commonly available in the north but not the south...(sorry can't remember.. and I've loaned the book "Finding Atlantis" by David King).. Now David King had never heard of either the Bock Saga OR of Felice Vinci's work... nor had Vinci seen David King's book or heard of the Bock Saga till long after he published his work on Homer.

I don't believe that the Argonauts TRAVELED north.. I do believe they already were in the north when it took place and the story actually traveled SOUTH with the migrations of the tribes at the end of the climatic optimum (maybe 2500 or so BC?) .. as did all of the tales that Homer reported...

As to the "Pillars of Hercules", Vinci gives an interesting suggestion... that the pillars are actually describing the arrangement of an island in the far North Atlantic, split in two massive halves and viewed from boats passing through appear to be enormous gates (or pillars)  ... again.. I will have to fill in details when I get the book back...

By the way, can you show the passage or passages relating to the airship so I can have a look?

cheers..

M

found my old thread on Rudbeck...

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,937.0.html
« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 03:42:47 am by rockessence » Report Spam   Logged

ILLIGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM

Thus ye may find in thy mental and spiritual self, ye can make thyself just as happy or just as miserable as ye like. How miserable do ye want to be?......For you GROW to heaven, you don't GO to heaven. It is within thine own conscience that ye grow there.

Edgar Cayce
Paulo Riven
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 452



WWW
« Reply #2088 on: July 03, 2010, 06:43:53 am »

Quote
since it appeared that the Greeks did not know the lay of the land in the Western end of the Med. at the time of Heracles,

I'm glad you said "appeared" Qoais, because personaly I doubt that very much!

After all, the Minoan city of Knossos goes back to 2000.bC and they were excellent seafarers who communicated with the Pelasgian Greeks and Mycenaeans.
There is also evidence at Dartmouth Universities, studies of the Aegean, that suggest the presence of Mycenaens or Greeks ca.1900.bC enroute of their voyages for amber and probably tin and zinc in and around Iberia and also to the cassiteride tin islands above Iberia.
This suggests that they either sailed through the pillars or cut across the pyranees mountains towards Santander.
In any case, there is evidence of them around the coastlines of Iberia ca1900.bC.

So they must have had knowledge of the straites and western Europe.

Already in 6000.bC, they were sailing as far away as Pantalleria island in search of obsidian.

 
Report Spam   Logged

[R]...Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis...[R]

New! Tribes of Atlantis Academy of Atlantis Research Forums; http://tribesofatlantis.freeforum.ca/index.php
Website; https://sites.google.com/site/tribesofatlantis/
Paulo Riven
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 452



WWW
« Reply #2089 on: July 03, 2010, 06:51:48 am »

By the way, on a side note, I think these forums numbers and rating system is seriously over rated or over inflated. Like 1,710 guests are going to be viewing this at 4:30am?

Or most online is 164,820 ? Get serious, that's more than David Icke and Above top secret combined!

Someone had fun with the programming or is having fun with the number rating system.

Report Spam   Logged

[R]...Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis...[R]

New! Tribes of Atlantis Academy of Atlantis Research Forums; http://tribesofatlantis.freeforum.ca/index.php
Website; https://sites.google.com/site/tribesofatlantis/
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #2090 on: July 03, 2010, 09:25:33 pm »

I think it's stuck.  The rating system that is.
Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #2091 on: July 03, 2010, 09:44:37 pm »

Paulo - when did Heracles live?  He was a demi-god - in other words, part human, part god, and supposedly existed when the gods still lived on the earth.  So just when exactly, was that? 


Quote
In any case, there is evidence of them around the coastlines of Iberia ca1900.bC.

So they must have had knowledge of the straites and western Europe.

Already in 6000.bC, they were sailing as far away as Pantalleria island in search of obsidian.

Can you link us to information telling us about these statements?   I'm especially interested in the last one, about the Greeks sailing as far away as Pantalleria island in search of obsidian.

Thank you again Rocky, I am starting to remember!  I have the book Finding Atlantis by David King.  I loved it. 

The "airship" was MY terminology for the ships Homer describes as the Phaeacians' ships:

Quote
Scheria - The Phaeacian ships

Odysseus was understandably worried about the dangers of the trip from Scheria to Ithaka. To reassure him, King Alcinous described the remarkable qualities, of the Phaeacian ships.

Tell me also your country, nation, and city, that our ships may shape their purpose accordingly and take you there. For the Phaeacians have no pilots; their vessels have no rudders as those of other nations have, but the ships themselves understand what it is that we are thinking about and want; they know all the cities and countries in the whole world, and can traverse the sea just as well even when it is covered with mist and cloud, so that there is no danger of being wrecked or coming to any harm. (Homer, The Odyssey, Book Cool

I was kidding about it being an air ship Rocky, but was comparing it to a fighter jet that Clint Eastwood flew in a movie, where he had to "think" a particular word, to get the rockets to fire, except the thing was Russian built so he had to "think" the word in Russian otherwise it wouldn't fire.!!

Obviously though, since it took Odysseus 20 days to get home even with this magical "ship" it obviously wasn't "flying" him home. Cheesy

I was trying to make the point that if we believe the ancient writers, word for word, then we have to believe these Phaeacians had super advanced technology beyond what we have today.  Yet everyone just skips over this bit as fantasy.  I can't imagine why? Grin



Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Paulo Riven
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 452



WWW
« Reply #2092 on: July 04, 2010, 03:13:50 pm »

Hi Qoais;

Actualy, the numbers appear higher because the board keeps you logged in if you don't click log out and just close your browser or go to another site. Look at your time logged in, mine says 1 day 2hours 19 minutes and when I logged in I only chose 1 hour. I'm pretty sure I clicked log out yesterday, and I always clear my cookies.  That's why the ratings are so high.

Hercules really has nothing to do with the Greeks having a previous knowledge of the west, even though his voyages do.
Hercules generally falls into 3 different categories being;

Greek; 1250.bC, Phoenician,2350.bC or was it 2700, I forget what Herodotus said, and Egyptian, 17,440.bC or 17,000 years prior Herodotus.
The Phoenician one around 2700 compares with the Sumerian Gilgamesh as hercules. Gilgamesh may have also travelled to the pillars at gibraltar.

The Prehistoric Archaeology of the Aegean
http://projectsx.dartmouth.edu/history/bronze_age/

Lesson 22: Aspects of Mycenaean Trade
THE AMBER TRADE
The source or sources of the amber found in the Aegean can be determined by means of infrared spectroscopy. Most of the amber from Mycenaean Greece, as well as that from Italy and elsewhere in the Mediterranean, comes from the Baltic Sea.

There is no evidence from Egypt for true amber, as opposed to other fossil resins, before the 18th Dynasty (ca. 1570 B.C. onwards). The earliest amber in the Near East may date from ca. 1800 B.C. at Assur and Hissar (level IIIC), or it may date from as early as ca. 2400 B.C. in the finds from a grave at Tell Asmar.

Greece's earliest amber comes from Shaft Grave O in Grave Circle B at Mycenae and from an early tholos at Pylos in Messenia, both of which contexts are dated to the latest phase of the MH period (ca. 1725-1675 B.C., on the high Aegean chronology).

The first Baltic amber arrived in Greece ca. 1725-1675 B.C., possibly in only three consignments (one each for Mycenae, Pylos, and Kakovatos [Messenia]). The next consignment need not have arrived until the transition from LH IIIB to LH IIIC ca. 1200 B.C., this time possibly through middlemen in northwest Greece, as suggested by finds of the material in Aetolia and Epirus. The early consignments, it has been argued, probably came to the Peloponnese by sea, possibly from as far away as Britain on the basis of remarkable similarities between Mycenaean and British spacer plates.

Atalante brought to my attention the obsidian trade with Pantelleria ca6000bC.
It is common knowledge of the obsidian trades anywhere in that time frame.
Just google it, for example;
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=obsidian+sailing+pantelleria+6000bc&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

I'm not sure where his article is and or his source, however there is also articles on obsidian here in AO.
Report Spam   Logged

[R]...Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis...[R]

New! Tribes of Atlantis Academy of Atlantis Research Forums; http://tribesofatlantis.freeforum.ca/index.php
Website; https://sites.google.com/site/tribesofatlantis/
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #2093 on: July 04, 2010, 04:15:06 pm »

I had read before, that amber came to Greece from over-land expeditions.  I also read that obsidian was carried via small boat - reed or animal skin boats - from the Greek Islands to mainland Greece. 

I see where obsidian was brought to Africa from Pantelleria, but I don't see where the Greeks "sailed" to Pantellria for it, especially

From your link:

The presence of amber, which is not an artifact per se but rather a material, in areas where it does not naturally occur is not necessarily an indicator of intercultural contact, but only of some sort of exchange system operating between or through two or more cultures. In other words, the presence of Baltic amber in southern Greece is not necessarily evidence that the Mycenaeans travelled north to the Baltic nor that northern Europeans visited Mycenaean Greece. The amber in question could easily have passed through a multitude of hands in an exchange network which brought the material by a series of relatively short hops over what in the end was a long distance. In any case, amber is light and a great deal of it can be carried by one man. Numerous finds of it need therefore not imply that several trips were made to obtain it.

 In Greece itself, there is no certain evidence for amber before the very end of the Middle Helladic period, and there is no certainly earlier amber from any other area of the eastern Mediterranean.

Greece's earliest amber comes from Shaft Grave O in Grave Circle B at Mycenae and from an early tholos at Pylos in Messenia, both of which contexts are dated to the latest phase of the MH period (ca. 1725-1675 B.C., on the high Aegean chronology). Other finds of this substance, from Peristeria Tholos 3, from Pylos Tholos IV, and from the Shaft Graves at Mycenae, date from the immediately following Late Helladic I period. A total of over 1560 pieces, 1290 of these from Shaft Grave IV in Circle A alone, is known from latest MH and LH I contexts.

MH or Middle Helladic period - circa 1725-1675 B.C. 

This is showing that amber was brought to Greece in this time period.  No where near the time period in question regarding Atlantis and ocean going vessels.

Quote
The only two ancient Aegean sources of obsidian are on the islands of Melos (in the Southwestern Cyclades) and Yiali (by Nisiros in the Dodacanese.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=-aFtPdh6-2QC&pg=PA509&lpg=PA509&dq=Where+did+ancient+Greeks+get+obsidian%3F&source=bl&ots=vI9dpJVJcl&sig=72aYlOZR7xGSrADyfnjBP1DpDp4&hl=en&ei=__MwTN2DAc-FnQe_9r3lAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false


Quote
Pantelleria is situated along the tectonic rift between Africa and Sicily and is an island with clear volcanic origins and there are still many volcanic manifestations present on the island.
The first settlings on Pantelleria were about 6000 BC. The main economic factor was Obsidian, used for all cutting tools followed by farming and stock-breeding. About 1800 BC most of the island was occupied by groups of farmers coming from Sicily. Sometime during the 9th century BC the island became part of the Phoenician trade network from Lebanon to the Atlantic. Pantelleria's first name was Yrnm, and later was changed into Cossyra. After the Phoenicians and Carthage, Pantelleria was conquered by the Romans 248 BC. The Arabs captured the island from Byzantium around 750 AD and introduced the cultivation of cotton, for many centuries the major export of the island. The arabs called the island al-Quasayra or Bint-al Rion, "daughter of the wind".
http://www.rondinara.net/trips/s_sicily.html

Quote
During the ice age the Mediterranean area was not a sea but a number of lakes with land bridges. Sicily was connected to the north of Africa and Malta was a mountain along the land bridge. As the ice melted, the water level raised, the street of Gibraltar opened to the Atlantic Ocean and the land bridges were submerged.

Same link.

So we have it here, that this little island has been inhabited since about 6000 BC. People obviously having arrived there when there was still a land bridge.  We also have it that obsidian was an economic factor.    But nowhere do we have it that the Greeks were sailing to Pantelleria searching for obsidian circa 6000 BC. 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 04:17:26 pm by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #2094 on: July 11, 2010, 08:52:16 am »

Well, I'm sure glad to see that SOME of those "dogma-driven fundamentalists" are open minded enough to admit they could be wrong, and announce the new finds they've made. 

I've always said the time lines are wrong and I'm very happy to learn that more research has been done, and proven me right!! Grin

Golethia Pennington has posted an article in  Timelines of Ancient Europe > History of Britain which indicates that humans were in Briton 250,000 years earlier than previously thought.  THAT is a huge jump in the time line.

Boreas has given further links:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jul/08/first-britons-clothes-shelters-fire
Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #2095 on: August 18, 2010, 11:55:27 am »

Although I've explained that my conclusion that Atlantis didn't exist as Plato tells us, in the timeline he gives us, was based on study of scientific explanations regarding a number of different fields - such as ship building technology, training of horses, development of civilizations, and where and when they developed, etc., people still get ticked with me and say I'm a skeptic.  I'm not.  I'm just saying that science doesn't bear proof - yet.  As I've said in the Geology of Atlantis thread, if I've misinterpreted the scientific information, then please correct me.  I have no grudge against any other person with a theory, I make no insults - there's nothing personal about the information I've researched.  Since the things Plato describes for the timeline he gives, didn't exist, it's only logical to conclude that he made the story up.  It has nothing to do with whether there was an impact event sending water into outer space, nor whether there was ever a piece of land sticking up out in the Atlantic ocean. 

It has to do with everything else necessary that makes up the life and times of a people who would have had to have a number of prerequisites in order to achieve what Plato said.  Where is the evidence for a civilization having all those necessaries in the time line Plato gives?  If they are out there, we haven't found them, and if such evidence is ever found, then every field of science will have to be torn down and put back together again.

Even if aliens from another planet crash landed here, they would not have the necessary technologies to do what Plato said the Atlanteans did.  They may know how to travel from one galaxy to another, but they wouldn't know how to build a ship, milk a cow, grow food that wouldn't kill them, etc. etc.  These developments take time - and there is no evidence that shows there were people who could sail the ocean, come through the straits of Gibraltar and attack three cultures at a time.  There weren't even established civilizations at the time, so who were they attacking?

Having said all that, I would like to link you to a clip that I found absolutely fascinating.  Some of what is included, has been disproved, but what I found so wonderful, was the artifacts and where they were found.  The film speaks to a possible "global culture" which is highly interesting.  I find this more plausible than there being only one culture on an island somewhere, totally in advance of everyone else attacking a bunch of farmers and hunters.  Perhaps the person(s) was right who said that at one time all the people of the Atlas (globe) were Atla-n-teans.

http://projectavalon.net/lang/fr/klaus_dona_2_interview_transcript_fr.html
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 04:42:17 pm by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #2096 on: August 30, 2010, 09:45:15 am »

Just thought I'd link to this, since I found it rather interesting.

Absence of evidence for a meteorite impact event 13,000 years ago.  An international team of scientists led by researchers at the University of Hawaii at Manoa have found no evidence supporting an extraterrestrial impact event at the onset of the Younger Dryas ~13000 years ago.

http://www.physorg.com/news179489405.html
Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #2097 on: September 11, 2010, 09:50:47 am »

Not that this has anything to do with Atlantis, but I do like to post things I find interesting.  A number of cultures have folk tales about how their ancestors fled their homeland, due to floods and destruction.  They also have stories about their gods, and it seems there is a common thread running through the stories of these gods, since before the time of the flood that sent the ancestors scrambling for safety.

I've posted this link in another thread as well, but here I will include a link to the author of that clip and this theory regarding the Ship of Heaven.



http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/Saturn/shipart.html

Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #2098 on: September 24, 2010, 02:03:17 pm »

Can the Earth's Axis Flip?

Yet another common catastrophist theme has to do with causing the Earth's axis to shift somehow. When I mention continental drift to non-scientists, I often am asked if having the continents all together as they were 200 million years ago might have unbalanced the Earth. Surprisingly, the Earth's continents are closely bunched now. If you look down on Paris on a globe, you will see a hemisphere containing most of the Earth's land. If you look down on the opposite point on the globe (southeast of New Zealand), you will see a hemisphere almost entirely covered by ocean. The Earth is very asymmetrical - in fact there is very little land on earth diametrically opposite other land - but a second surprising point is that the distribution of continents and oceans has almost no effect on the balance of the Earth. First of all, the crust is only 1/300 of the Earth's mass, and second, recall that the crust 'floats' on the plastic mantle. Continental crust is thick and high, but it's light. Oceanic crust is thin and low, but it's dense. This buoyant effect, called isostasy, in effect makes the Earth self-balancing. The plasticity of the Earth's interior has another important side effect. The centrifugal force resulting from the Earth's rotation causes the Earth to bulge at the Equator by about 14 miles. Changing the rotation of a sphere is hard, changing the rotation of an ellipsoid like the Earth is harder yet. The Earth has a lot of extra mass where it counts most. Finally, recall your attempt to get your swivel chair rotating; the Earth cannot cause its own rotation to change significantly.

Some people think of the Earth's axis "flipping over," like a top falling on its side or perhaps like one of the novelty tops that spontaneously flips over. But tops change their motion because they are balanced on a firm surface and because gravity is pulling them downward. Under zero gravity conditions, like in a spacecraft, both types of tops would spin until they slowed due to air resistance. In space, with no air, they would spin forever, and not flip or fall over. The Earth is spinning like a top, but like one spinning in space.

The amount of energy contained in the earth's rotation is pretty large: 2.1 x 1029 joules. You'd have to supply an appreciable fraction of that to change the earth's rotation in any major way. To put this number in perspective, a megaton is 4 x 1015 joules. You'd have to supply about 5 x 1014  megatons, or about 100 million times the total nuclear arsenal of the Earth. So we can see that the science fiction theme of a nuclear blast affecting the earth's rotation is just plain impossible. The kinetic energy of the earth in its orbit is about 2.7 x 1033 joules or about 10,000 times its rotational energy, so the entire earth's nuclear arsenal could hardly affect the earth in its orbit even if we could somehow deliver the energy effectively.

Another way to look at this is that it takes 400,000 joules to melt a kilogram of rock, so to change the earth's rotation, you'd liberate enough energy to melt 5 x 1023 kilograms of rock or almost 10 per cent of the earth.

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/flipaxis.htm
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 02:06:18 pm by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #2099 on: October 05, 2010, 10:37:10 am »

http://www.physorg.com/news175338826.html

The world's oldest known submerged town has been revealed through the discovery of late Neolithic pottery. The finds were made during an archaeological survey of Pavlopetri, off the southern Laconia coast of Greece.

Marine geo-archaeologist Dr Nic Flemming of the National Oceanography Centre, Southampton said: "The discovery of Neolithic pottery is incredible! It means that we are looking at a port city which may be 5000-6000 years old, with trade goods and wrecks nearby showing some of the very earliest days of seafaring trade in the Mediterranean."
Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Pages: 1 ... 134 135 136 137 138 139 [140] 141   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy