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Plato's Atlantis My Theory


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Qoais
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« Reply #2010 on: April 25, 2010, 07:10:12 pm »

One interesting observation about inventions that are not toys but become part of the way of life of a human society, is that every new development needs to be founded on an old one, because too dramatic a development throws the operation of that way of life into chaos.. Early automobilies for example had to be concieved of as carriages without horses. That would not disrupt society's operation (other than putting liveries out of work, but then, the liveries turned into automobile repair facilities.) If someone had produced an automobile that looked like a modern automobile right away, the public would not have been able to relate to it. The horseless carriage was wonderful. It was still the familiar carriage, but it did not need a horse to pull it.
     The evolution of the boat had to proceed in a similar way. It had to slightly improve something already being done. If someone produced the skin-covered frame boat right away, people would not have been able to understand it.
       The boat probably began with men straddling logs. Then someone cut a hole in it so that the man did not have to dangle feet in the water. Then the hole was made more comfortable, and larger, to hold more than one man. Then someone discovered that making the outside more streamlined allowed it to travel faster.
      It may have taken several generations of someone instituting a change and then many people testing whether the change was beneficial. Eventually the log turned into a dugout with a streamlined shape and thin walls (to be light enought to carry). Such sleek dugouts are still made and used by the Khanti of the Ob River in Siberia, althought they can only make small single-man versions on account there are no large trees in their northern environment.
       People who travelled into the sea, such as the Baltic sea, to harvest fish there, learned that they needed large dugouts to withstand the large waves of a sea (or large lake). Archeology reveals that early dugouts in forested regions were large ones, many meters in length, and typically holding up to seven men -  three pairs of rowers and one helmsman. Indeed this is permanently recorded in the Estonian and Finnish languages, where the word for "7" is similar to the word for "pertaining to riding" (Est. sõiduse > seitse), and the word for "5" is similar to the word for "pertaining to carrying" (the center two rowers replaced by goods.)


       The original dugout boat peoples did not venture into the sea, since going out on the open sea was in itself unnatural. However, once they had developed institutions of hunting sea animals that sometimes lingered away from shore, those animals drew them out. The culture that emerged out of the earliest "Maglemose" dugout boat peoples, to harvest the sea, is called the "Kunda" culture. It was located up the east Baltic coast. Archeology has found an abundance of large harpoons, indicating that these people hunted major sea animals, probably seals.
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« Reply #2011 on: April 25, 2010, 07:11:35 pm »



From the "Kunda" archeological finds, the image at right shows a large harpoon and an adze head -used for hollowing a log for a dugout with the help of fire.
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« Reply #2012 on: April 25, 2010, 07:12:37 pm »

The "Kunda" seagoing dugout of about 6000BC, was a successful one, and its users no doubt expanded into Lake Lagoda and Lake Onega too. The land was still depressed from the former weight of the glaciers, and  it was probably possible to ride a boat from the Baltic Sea area to the White Sea. Those bands that travelled north to harvest seas further north, had to return south whenever they needed to build a new seagoing dugout, because the trees in the north were small, and above the treeline, nonexistent. While the "Kunda" culture in the Baltic, was able to find forests with huge trees a meter in diameter from which to make large seagoing dugouts, those bands who moved north out of the Baltic Sea, found their large dugouts rotting away and no large trees to replace them. All they had were smaller trees for making small one-person dugouts, not suitable for hunting large sea animals in the sea.
      The rock carvings of Lake Onega, north to the White Sea, and across the European arctic to the coasts of arctic Norway show a very interesting boat. The simplest and smallest one shows a moosehead on its prow, and it holds no more than three men. When comparing the scale of people versus the size of the head on the prow, it is clear that what they have done is in fact created a "dugout moose". They have taken a moose carcass, slit it open along its back, and removed its body. Then to retain its shape, they have simply used the same principle as the moose itself has  to hold its shape - ribs. It is possible that the earliest and simplest "dugout moose" retained the moose's own ribcage. I can easily see them using the moose's own skeleton - moving pieces around. Then using fire - just like in the creation of a dugout - to dry and preserve the inside. The final result is a boat which is a dugout moose mummified and hardened by drying with fire.  The resulting boat offered a very high prow that could handle high waves. This was the beginning of all the subsequent boats that have ever been built - up to the oceanliners of modern day - based on the principle of putting a skin on a frame. The greatest oceanliner on earth starts 6000 years ago with a moose swimming across a lake and being initially mistakened for a floating log!!!!
     As the rock carvings also show, pieces of skin could be sewn together, and more frame added, in order to create a long boat capable of holding 20-50 people.

http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-seagoingskinboats.html
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 07:13:18 pm by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #2013 on: April 25, 2010, 07:19:29 pm »

THE EVOLUTION OF THE SKIN BOAT FROM THE "DUGOUT MOOSE"
Theory by Andres Paabo

The concept of the original boat did not involve frames and skins. All boats were dugout logs. The dugout is still made by the Khanti of the Ob (image at right is from a Lennart Meri film produced in Estonia in the 80's) However this dugout is small because at the northern edge of the forest zone, the trees are too small to make large seaworthy dugouts.



Mooseboat
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« Reply #2014 on: April 25, 2010, 07:22:36 pm »

All the rock carvings of arctic Europe show this small dugout (upper image to right, showing a  rock carving from the Norwegian arctic islands)that can carry only one person showing it still had its use. But the boats used for harvesting the sea, are large skin boats that have high prows to withstand the high waves of the sea.

It is interesting that the single person dugout is also seen in Canadian rock carvings (image to left from book by Dewdney), helping argue that  the people who crossed the Atlantic with skin boats also brought knowledge of creating the small river-dugout. While some may say that the image shown to the left is a  birchbark canoe, I disagree. Dugouts were very slim because it was not possible to build up the sides . Birchbark canoes were nothing more than skin boats using birchbark skin instead of animal skin.

Boat people who wanted to harvest the arctic, therefore could not use the slim dugouts made from the small northern trees. They had to develop something new. My theory is that it began with someone's idea of trying to make a dugout from a dead moose carcass.
http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-seagoingskinboats.html




Note that the moose has a massive body giving a great deal of skin that can be stretched to create a boat large enough to hold three men.
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« Reply #2015 on: April 25, 2010, 07:24:56 pm »

The Lake Onega rock carvings present several examples showing the small moose skin boat being used in sea-hunting.  Allowing for some variation by the artist, the scale of the moose head  is generally of natural size, when compared with the size of the two or three people inside.

All the skin-on-frame boats of the world owe their origins to this beginning, which I believe began with applying the concept of the dugout to a moose carcass. The idea may have begun with someone seeing a moose swimming and initially thinking it was a large floating log. Coming close they discover it is a moose; however the idea of making a large boat was already planted in their mind and they wondered if a boat could be made from it. In the beginning the idea of a skin on a frame did not exist. It was born when the concept of the moose's ribs was employed to hold the skin in shape.
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« Reply #2016 on: April 25, 2010, 07:26:53 pm »

The image to the right, shows an illustration from Alta, Norway rock carvings. It illustrates that this basic boat was not local. Since the moose (shown above) is a forest zone animal, the use of the moose meant that its users did not remain in the arctic, but migrated between the arctic coast and forested regions.  It is interesting that the Lake Onega carvings show no images of moose with antlers. Since males grow antlers in summer and shed them in fall, it follows that the Lake Onega people were in the Lake Onega area only in winter-spring. They then left for the arctic, perhaps going as far as Alta, and did not experience the moose with antlers. The Alta rock carvings also show boats with reindeer heads. It suggests that those people who DID stay in the arctic, and did not return south, used the reindeer as a substitute, sewing many skins together.

The next step was of course the enlarging of this boat, to hold many more people. The obvious way to enlarge it was to simply sew skins together and make it longer. The following images compares a rock carving of a large boat at Lake Onega, with a typical UMIAK of the Alaskan Inuit. The umiak shown was made of walrus skins, but it gives an idea of  size. Walrus skin was discovered to be a better skin than reindeer, for those peoples who stayed in the arctic and did not descend south in winter to the forested regions where moose were found.



http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-seagoingskinboats.html
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« Reply #2017 on: April 25, 2010, 07:28:32 pm »


http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-seagoingskinboats.html
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 09:29:21 am by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #2018 on: April 25, 2010, 07:33:24 pm »



Map shows ocean currents of the North Atlantic and some of the names mentioned in this text. The names in quotes represent archeological "cultures". ALTA and ONEGA name two major locations of rock carvings showing boats, dating to 6000 years ago. The letters A, B, C show areas where currents loop around. Since early boats were not particularly wind-driven, they would have been oriented to currents, and each of these loops could have defined a tribe undertaking migrations that may have lasted many years before returning to the same place.

http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-seagoingskinboats.html
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« Reply #2019 on: April 25, 2010, 07:37:04 pm »

This paragraph is extremely important.  I think it explains very elegantly and simply, how people probably traveled down the coastlines of the Americas and found the warmer weather conditions in the South.

Whale hunting tribal territories would have developed according to the behaviour of whales. Whales migrated up and down Atlantic coasts, both on the European side and the American side.  Obviously tribes on one side would in the long run diverge from those on the other side, as a result of reduced contact. When the whale hunting culture reached the Pacific, it would also have descended down the Pacific coast, that also has whale migrations. They could have descended as far south as California, since whales did. If you are a whale hunter, would you not wonder where they went, and try to follow them?
        While whales and the search for large sea animals in general, like also seals and walrus, may have been the original reason for boldly venturing into the open sea (quite scarey until one is used to it), once there, the sea-going hunters also had access to new places to fish, and that would have caused the culture to florish and expand, even without whales. The situation would have been similar to what happened with the creation of the dugout canoe. There too the water craft suddenly gave access to water animal hunting locations previously inaccessible, and benefitted the people beyond what they originally expected.

Whale hunting tribal territories would have developed according to the behaviour of whales. Whales migrated up and down Atlantic coasts, both on the European side and the American side.  Obviously tribes on one side would in the long run diverge from those on the other side, as a result of reduced contact. When the whale hunting culture reached the Pacific, it would also have descended down the Pacific coast, that also has whale migrations. They could have descended as far south as California, since whales did. If you are a whale hunter, would you not wonder where they went, and try to follow them?
        While whales and the search for large sea animals in general, like also seals and walrus, may have been the original reason for boldly venturing into the open sea (quite scarey until one is used to it), once there, the sea-going hunters also had access to new places to fish, and that would have caused the culture to florish and expand, even without whales. The situation would have been similar to what happened with the creation of the dugout canoe. There too the water craft suddenly gave access to water animal hunting locations previously inaccessible, and benefitted the people beyond what they originally expected.

http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-seagoingskinboats.html
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« Reply #2020 on: April 26, 2010, 10:08:54 pm »

Atlantis Exists.

Here's a new picture of my Atlantis Royal City location 475 miles before the Straites of Gibraltar. Cleito's Hill, Visible Wall and Circular Arc  can be seen in this Google Earth image.






https://sites.google.com/site/tribesofatlantis/

Changing MainStream Science.
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New! Tribes of Atlantis Academy of Atlantis Research Forums; http://tribesofatlantis.freeforum.ca/index.php
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« Reply #2021 on: April 27, 2010, 10:04:06 am »

Paulo, here is a link to a theory that is extremely logical.  And it's NOT the Canary Islands!!  Shocked This is based on scientific discoveries in the Black Sea, NOT Atlantis Motherland.

http://www.black-sea-atlantis.com/black-sea-atlantis/

Most people do believe Plato embellished his story, and for reasons I've pointed out myself.  There were no chariots in the times he proposes, and there were no "Triremes" or ships as large as Triremes, that he would use this word to portray the size of ships in the harbor. 

Also originally, the Pillars of Heracles were not at Gibraltar as the Greeks did not know of Gibraltar in the time of Heracles. 

Plato has put a number of places and events together to make a story suitable for the birthday celebrations of the founding goddess and compiled them into one tale.  Obviously, Plato could not know if the story was true or not, unless he himself, made it up.  He would no doubt have heard the verbal histories of people, talking about have to flee their homeland due to a flood.  They may have had a description of the place in their folklore and Plato may have likened it to the Plains of Thessaly which he could very well have seen himself and used for his description. 

Personally, and it's just my opinion, I think the more we learn about what the ancient peoples knew and could accomplish, the more we realize the story IS based on actual places and events - they just aren't all in one place at one time.  To me, the next logical thing to do, is try to figure out just what all he might be referring to.    Therein lies the challenge and the learning experience.

I would like to mention here also, that for a war to be declared on a people - for instance just for an example, for Canada to declare war on China, Canadian troops would not have to be IN China at the time.  We would simply have to make a political for physical attack on the Chinese people in our own country, and China could declare war on us.  It's possible that this is how it was in ancient times as well, if say, Turks are being attacked in some other land they've settled in, they can send word back to Turkey and Turkey will send troops. 

By attacking someone from another country, they were basically declaring war, on that person's home country.  So when Plato says the Atlanteans attacked the Egyptians, the Greeks and Asia "at a blow", he may mean that a city or state where people from these countries were settled, thereby "declaring" war on their home countries. 

We know from the history records, there was no culture at the time with an organized army and/or navy that could attack all three countries at once.  There was no culture that had an organized army or navy in that time line.  However, in more recent history, we see clan wars and "tribal" wars, which could have been an inspiration for the story as well.
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« Reply #2022 on: April 27, 2010, 10:07:37 am »

GEOLOGY
 
In 1997 American Marine-Geologists Walter Pitman and William Ryan published the scientific evidence, that today’s Black Sea used to be a freshwater-lake. Its shoreline then was approximately 350 feet below today’s level of the global ocean. By dating fresh- and saltwater shells with the C14 method they found, that the salinity of the lake changed rapidly from fresh to salty around 5500 BC. They call this Noah’s Flood and we are convinced that this interpretation is true.

The reason for this change is the increase of the level of the global ocean since the end of the last ice age, which peaked 20.000 BC. Then the level was 350 feet lower than today. Even 5500 BC when the flood happened, the level was still 45 feet lower. Due to the steady increase at some point in time the former land connection between Europe and Asia at today’s Bosporus (at the city of Istanbul) had to break and release the salt water of the Mediterranen/Marmara Sea into the Black Sea basin with its lower shoreline.
 
From 1999 to 2003 the theory presented by Pitman/Ryan was challenged severely by a group of international scientists. However, in 2004 Bulgarian Marine-Geologists Petko Dimitrov and Dimitar Dimitrov published the result of their studies under the Black Sea Research Program “Noah”: They are convinced that the flood, a “geocatastrophic event” actually happened and that the dates collected by Pitman/Ryan are correctly dated. This conclusion is based on the examination of sediments rather than mollusks.

http://www.black-sea-atlantis.com/black-sea-atlantis/
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« Reply #2023 on: April 27, 2010, 10:10:14 am »

In addition, on an earlier expedition with a submarine at the former shoreline they found what will probably be recorded in human history as “Noah’s plate”: An object made from sandstone with early letters on it. Currently, scientists are very reluctant to accept this finding; however, leading scientists have dated the plate as being Neolithic and also reviewed the signs, which seem to be in line with Old European Writing starting around 5500 BC on the Balkan Peninsula.

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« Reply #2024 on: April 27, 2010, 10:15:12 am »

ARCHAEOLOGY
 
… before the Flood
 
The official opinion is that first settlers (7000 BC) sailed from Turkey through the Aegean Sea to Greece (Sesklo Culture; 6400 BC) and moved from there to Thracia (Karanovo Culture; today Turkey/Bulgaria), to the middle Danube region (Starcevo-Koeroes-Cris Culture 6200 BC, over the Balkan Mountains) and to the Dnepr region (also 6200 BC, over the South and North Carpathian Mountains).


Spread of Agriculture from Anatolia to Europe - conservative Model

Obviously, this official doctrine has to be reviewed under the new evidence. Even for the late Bronze Age Greece it was an adventure to cross the Aegean Sea and settlements obviously used to stretch alongside waters but not over mountains. Under the new evidence the settlers moved primarily to the north along the coast of the freshwater lake (today’s Black Sea): In the great basin in the northwest they found favorable climatic condition, loess soils and lots of rivers. Here is the center of early Neolithic cultures, others call it “Civilization X”, and we call it Atlantis.
 
The Neolithic development in Europe started from here around 6500 BC and moved up the rivers of Danube and Dnepr. This culture was drowned with Noah’s Flood 5500 BC and we are convinced that this culture also created the Atlantis saga.
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