Atlantis Online
March 28, 2024, 11:08:59 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Comet theory collides with Clovis research, may explain disappearance of ancient people
http://uscnews.sc.edu/ARCH190.html
 
  Home Help Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Plato's Atlantis My Theory

Pages: 1 ... 124 125 126 127 128 129 [130] 131 132 133 134 135 136 ... 141   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Plato's Atlantis My Theory  (Read 102121 times)
0 Members and 500 Guests are viewing this topic.
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1935 on: April 09, 2010, 09:25:02 pm »

Monastery of St. Stephens, Thessaly, Greece.     I can see where even in ancient times, people would choose to build on the top of these rock formations, especially if they had dealt with floods in the past.

Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Tom Hebert
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1370


« Reply #1936 on: April 10, 2010, 06:22:11 am »

Yes.  That was also the original purpose of the Tower of Babel.
Report Spam   Logged
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1937 on: April 10, 2010, 10:17:42 am »

Hi Tom
The Tower of Babel was to get out of the floodwaters?  I thought it was so the people could get closer to God, and God didn't like it that they would do that and caused them all to speak in different languages so as to confuse them.  Some God.  Very loving I'm sure Wink
Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Paulo Riven
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 452



WWW
« Reply #1938 on: April 10, 2010, 03:12:18 pm »

This is my hometown of Praia de Victoria on Teiceira Island,Azores Islands.



Here's a pic near Mt.Parnassus showing concentric circles. In this case an olive garden.



The Mesara plains on Crete also look the same.



« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 03:13:02 pm by Paulo Riven » Report Spam   Logged

[R]...Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis...[R]

New! Tribes of Atlantis Academy of Atlantis Research Forums; http://tribesofatlantis.freeforum.ca/index.php
Website; https://sites.google.com/site/tribesofatlantis/
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1939 on: April 10, 2010, 03:44:12 pm »

That's very beautiful Paulo.  And I do get your point.  It could be that whoever told the Egyptians about Atlantis, you think could be describing your home island.  I agree it is similar to Thessaly, however Plato did describe the mountains as the most beautiful and magnificent in the world, and I think the mountains of Greece do appear to be higher and more abundant that on your island.

The second thing I'd like to say is that MY point, was in showing that after trying to make all the information Plato gave, fit the story, it doesn't, that he made it up and that for the story he used things he knew and had seen.  It was my suggestion that since Thessaly is there in Greece, it's possible it saw it and was impressed with it, and used it for his story.    He was not for democracy as he felt it was  the "rule of the rabble" and being of the aristocracy, he felt the aristocracy should be privileged and dictate basically, how a country should be divided up and how each class should stay to itself.  In his story of Atlantis, the King OWNED Atlantis, but was separated into "kingdoms" and each kingdom was supported by the people thereof, who were alloted so much land each, to farm and for that, they had to support the King and his army.  Being a philosopher, he would not not likely automatically know how much land it would take to support such an army, and he may have looked out over the plains of Thessaly and thought, that would to it.  However, the measurements he gave do not work out.  Back in this thread, I did the math for how many would be in the army.  The size he gave for the land, would not have supported that size of an army and civilians as well.  In some areas, Plato gave too much information, and in some areas he didn't give enough. 

He also talks about the "army" as it would have been in HIS day, not knowing that 9,000 years before Solon's time, there were no chariots, or organized army as he describes.  I don't buy into the story that the 9,000 years are lunar years (or months) because all the other info in the story talks about thousands of years ago when people like Deucalion lived.  Not lunar years. 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 03:49:02 pm by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1940 on: April 10, 2010, 03:58:54 pm »

Let me just try to clarify this a bit.

Plato says that Solon is chatting with the old priest of Egypt and he's talking about "ancient" times, about the first man, Phoroneus and Niobe and the flood of Deucalion.   Here's a quote:

Quote
To this city came Solon, and was received there with great honour; he asked the priests who were most skilful in such matters, about antiquity, and made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellene knew anything worth mentioning about the times of old. On one occasion, wishing to draw them on to speak of antiquity, he began to tell about the most ancient things in our part of the world-about Phoroneus, who is called "the first man," and about Niobe; and after the Deluge, of the survival of Deucalion and Pyrrha; and he traced the genealogy of their descendants, and reckoning up the dates, tried to compute how many years ago the events of which he was speaking happened.

Do you think Solon was doing HIS reckoning, by the Egyptian calendar of lunar years?  No, he was talking in Greek time, as in years.  The "first man" was not born just a few hundred years in the past from Solon's time.  He was talking about ANTIQUITY.  Then the priest tells him Greece has no history hoary with age, and that what Solon is relating to him is not even ANCIENT, but that the story he tells of Athens saving the known world from the tyranny of the Atlanteans, was way farther back in time, 9000 YEARS  back.   They are talking about the history of Greece, and they are using the method of measuring time as years. 

Again, I say Plato is telling a story as a lesson, and he is using what he knows as a basis for that story.  Coincidentally, I just recently discovered that Deucalion and his wife survived the flood and landed in Thessaly!!  Again, something Plato would have learned as a history lesson.

Quote
The story of Deucalion and Pyrrha is the flood story of Greek mythology.
Warned by his father, Prometheus, Deucalion built an ark to survive the coming Bronze Age-ending flood that Zeus was sending to punish mankind for its wickedness. Deucalion and his wife, Pyrrha (daughter of Prometheus' brother Epimetheus and Pandora), survived for 9 days of flooding and then landed at Mt. Parnassus. All alone in the world they wanted company and were told by Themis that they should throw the bones of their mother behind them. They interpreted this mysterious instruction as meaning "throw stones over their shoulders onto mother earth," and did so. The stones Deucalion threw became men and those Pyrrha threw became women.

Deucalion and Pyrrha settled in Thessaly where they produced offspring the old-fashioned way. Their two sons were Hellen and Amphictyon. Hellen sired Aeolus (founder of the Aeolians), Dorus (founder of the Dorians), and Xuthus. Xuthus sired Achaeus (founder of the Achaeans) and Ion (founder of the Ionians).

The article says that this particular flood ended the Bronze age.  Here's a bit about the Bronze Age in the Aegean region:

Aegean
Main article: Aegean Civilization


Bronze Age copper ingot found in Crete.
The Aegean Bronze Age begins around 3000 BC, when civilizations first established a far-ranging trade network. This network imported tin and charcoal to Cyprus, where copper was mined and alloyed with the tin to produce bronze. Bronze objects were then exported far and wide, and supported the trade. Isotopic analysis of the tin in some Mediterranean bronze objects indicates it came from as far away as Great Britain.[citation needed]
Knowledge of navigation was well developed at this time, and reached a peak of skill not exceeded (except perhaps by Polynesian sailors) until AD 1730 when the invention of the chronometer enabled the precise determination of longitude.
The Minoan civilization based in Knossos appears to have coordinated and defended its Bronze Age trade.
Illyrians are also believed to have roots in the early Bronze Age.
Numerous authorities[citation needed] believe that ancient empires were prone to undervalue staple foods in favor of luxury goods, leading to famine. This may have arisen because money was concentrated in the hands of a few people, rather than due to a lack of modern accounting methods.
[edit]Collapse in Aegean
Main article: Bronze Age collapse
How the Bronze Age ended in this region is still being studied. There is evidence that Mycenaean administration of the regional trade empire followed the decline of Minoan primacy, and that several Minoan client states lost much of their population to famine and/or pestilence. This would indicate that the trade network may have failed, preventing the trade that would previously have relieved such famines and prevented illness caused by malnutrition. It is also known that in this era the breadbasket of the Minoan empire, the area north of the Black Sea, also suddenly lost much of its population, and thus probably some cultivation.

Recent research has discredited the theory that exhaustion of the Cyprus forests caused the end of the bronze trade. These forests are known to have existed into later times, and experiments have shown that charcoal production on the scale necessary for the bronze production of the late Bronze Age would have exhausted them in less than fifty years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age

I don't know if the flood of Deucalion did end the Bronze Age in Greece or not, but this gives a bit of a time line as to the measurement of time per the Greeks.  So if Solon and the priests are already talking about a time (the Bronze Age - although it's not called that yet) that was that far in the past, and they said Atlantis was way farther in the past than that, then of course Atlantis had to be way older than that.  The math is not that hard to do.



« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 04:21:35 pm by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1941 on: April 10, 2010, 04:34:39 pm »

I've also been thinking about this business of the different seas Plato talks about.  It finally dawned on me that even in his day, they did not call the Mediterranean Sea, the Mediterranean Sea, they called it by the areas and locations within it.  Here's a map to show what I mean.  It's divided up into subdivisions.  In Plato's time, he likely did not know what the sea was called near the Atlas mountains, and coined the term Atlantis sea meaning - sea of the Atlantoi (plural) or if you like - Sea of the Atlant-ees.   Smiley  The N. Western area of Africa, was once thought to be an island.  Plato, mixing up the facts a bit, could easily have thought to make his story more dramatic by saying the Atlant-ees came from the farthest side of said island, the side that was actually in the ocean.  The side where the Atlas mountains are, would be called the sea.  (Of the Atlant-ees or Atlantis therefore Sea of Atlantis).  We pronounce the word as ending in ---iss perhaps it was originally pronounced as ---ees. 


Major subdivisions include the Adriatic Sea, Aegean Sea, Balearic Sea, Tyrrhenian Sea, Ionian Sea and Ligurian Sea.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 04:36:27 pm by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Paulo Riven
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 452



WWW
« Reply #1942 on: April 10, 2010, 11:29:39 pm »

Qoasis;

Plato must have known that the Ocean past the straites was called Atlantic because of Herodotus.
I was merely showing you how other plains compare that may have been an Atlantean concept for settling preferable locations of survival like river delta regions or plains surrounded by mountains that can provide freshwater.
Based on the size and location of the plain being in or near the middle of the island in Critias, the island would have to be at least a minimum of 1000 x 500 miles,plus consider the other islands around Atlantis. I would imagine that the army could be sustainable. How many people live in and around Hong Kong?

Yes,I agree that Solon and the Priest were talking in years except that they were "generational years" as mentioned various times in the script that can be anywhere between 3000 - 9000 years prior.

341 kings mentioned by Herodotus @ 25 year generations is still 8,525 years or we would use a 2.79 or roughly a 1/3rd converstion factor compared to our modern lists of Egyptian kings, that by the way is at least 1000 years off the mark anyway.

There is also the factor of biennial years or every two years for cattle counts marking a kings reign that would account for 4000 years instead of 8000 by the Egyptian priest, but the wooden statuettes of priests counted by Herodotus seem to go against this, unless of course we should divide those by two for upper and lower Egypt.

Report Spam   Logged

[R]...Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis...[R]

New! Tribes of Atlantis Academy of Atlantis Research Forums; http://tribesofatlantis.freeforum.ca/index.php
Website; https://sites.google.com/site/tribesofatlantis/
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1943 on: April 11, 2010, 10:25:45 am »

Quote
Riven
I would imagine that the army could be sustainable. How many people live in and around Hong Kong?

As I said before, there is nothing in written history or in archaeology to substantiate the size of army Plato describes.  That's why we're still looking for it, because there is no proof.  There is no proof, because it didn't exist.

Plato
Quote
and he traced the genealogy of their descendants, and reckoning up the dates, tried to compute how many years ago the events of which he was speaking happened.

This is quite plain.  he traced the genealogy - reckoning up the dates - and computed how many YEARS.  Genealogy is the life of each of the ancestors.  You take the number of years each one lived and add it up to try to determine the total number of years.  How can that be misinterpreted?  They are talking about ANTIQUITY - times that were ancient to THEM.

The story also repeats the definition of the amount of time involved, by saying the goddess created Greece, then created Egypt one thousand years later.  Then further in the story, the part that helps to show it's just a story, is when he says that nine thousand years ago Greece was just being born but it was also 9000 years ago that Atlantis supposedly attacked. 

Now Paulo, neither history nor Archaeology show us that anyone had an army the size Plato is talking about, in that time frame.  There is no science proof that has shown there were chariots at that time. 

Chariots

Main article: Chariot

The development of first city-states, and then empires, allowed warfare to change dramatically. Beginning in Mesopotamia, states produced sufficient agricultural surplus so that full-time ruling elites and military commanders could emerge. While the bulk of military forces were still farmers, the society could support having them campaigning rather than working the land for a portion of each year. Thus, organized armies developed for the first time.
These new armies could help states grow in size and became increasingly centralized, and the first empire, that of the Sumerians, formed in Mesopotamia. Early ancient armies continued to primarily use bows and spears, the same weapons that had been developed in prehistoric times for hunting. Early armies in Egypt and China followed a similar pattern of using massed infantry armed with bows and spears.
As states grew in size, speed of movement became crucial because central power could not hold if rebellions could not be suppressed rapidly. The first solution to this was the chariot which became used in the Middle East from around 1800 BC. First pulled by oxen and donkeys, they allowed rapid traversing of the relatively flat lands of the Middle East. The chariots were light enough that they could easily be floated across rivers. Improvements in the ability to train horses soon allowed them to be used to pull chariots, possibly as early as 2100 BC,[1] and their greater speed and power made chariots even more efficient. The major drawback of the use of chariots is similar to one of its advantages, the fact that it is light. The lack of armor causes it to be extremely vulnerable to spears, pikes, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_warfare
Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1944 on: April 11, 2010, 10:48:29 am »

Regarding what Plato knew of the Atlantic Ocean and Herodotus.  Plato was 3 when Herodotus died.  It's not known how long it would have taken for Herodotus to publish his works, especially his map so it's not known if Plato actually studied any of Herodotus' work.  I suspect that if he did, it would have been later in life, after he's already been taught that the western end of the known world was islands.  In all the Greek myths, it tells about the islands at the western end of the world.  This would have been Plato's mind set, until he possibly read Herodotus and learned that in fact the lay of the land was different.  However, since he is just telling a story, it is in keeping with the stories he had heard all his life of the myths which make the land in the west, islands.  By the time he wrote the story of Atlantis, we can see that he must have read Herodotus' work, since he does mention the Atlanteans that Herodotus mentioned, who lived near the Atlas mountains. 

IF Atlantis existed and she sunk, why is there no other mention of her or her people, or their trade with other countries?  She supposedly  had so much trade with other countries that her harbors were full of ships.  Large ships - as compared to what Plato knew of large ships, which were Triremes.  Where was she located, that all the other countries of the known world could trade with her?  Who were these other countries that had the large ships?  History shows us that there were no large ships 9000 years before Solon.  If Atlantis was as influential as Plato says, then every country would have some record of dealing with her.  There isn't any. 

We have the Egyptians mentioning the Sea Peoples.  But it was also these knowledgeable Egyptians who supposedly told Solon about the Atlanteans.  Why would they not have just said the Sea Peoples, if they were one and the same?  We actually have a written record saying SEA PEOPLES, we do not have a written record of the Egyptians, saying ATLANTEANS.   Even if the name WAS changed into Greek, you with your cleverness should be able to figure out what Atlantis means in Egyptian, but the way you've been going on about how words in all these different languages are correlated, shows that you don't know the history of languages at all.  In over 2000 years, no one has figured out what Atlantis might have been in Egyptian.  Because there was no Atlantis in Egyptian.  It was always in Greek, because it was a Greek who first mentions Atlanteans - Herodotus - and it was a Greek who made them famous - Plato.



« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 11:09:25 am by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1945 on: April 11, 2010, 12:17:04 pm »

Going back to the word Atlantis - I was thinking also that it could have been an interpreter that mis-interpreted what Plato wrote and thereby coined the term Atlantis.

Here's a post about it I made in another forum.

I think Plato was very much influenced by what he knew of the past, and used it to tell his story of Atlantis. I think the part where he talks about the Atlantis Sea confuses people, but if you look at any map of the Med., you will see that from ancient times, different areas of the Med. Sea are called other seas. In other words, it's sub-divided into the Adriatic Sea, Aegean Sea, Balearic Sea, Tyrrhenian Sea, Ionian Sea and Ligurian Sea. Since Plato had never actually travelled as far as the Atlas mountains, and likely made a guess at what the land of the Atlas -ees was called, he figured it out as the land of the people of Atlas. At-lant-ees (We say ---iss) therefore At-lant - is. Since he didn't know the name of the sea there, he called it the Atlantis sea, or sea of the Atlant-ees. I wonder if Plato actually coined the name or if some Latin interpreter did. I don't know how the Greek language is constructed, but in Latin for example - I've used this before - the family of Julius Caesar was called the Julii - pronounced Julie - eye. I suspect that some interpreter thought Plato was using the plural for people of the land of Atlas, somehow making it a combination word of "land of the Atlantii - putting the s on the end for plural. I don't know that for a fact, but if the word in Greek was already Atlas, what would Atlas' descendants be called? Atlasians? Maybe they were and the interpreter made a spelling mistake.
Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Paulo Riven
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 452



WWW
« Reply #1946 on: April 11, 2010, 08:23:12 pm »

Qoais;

Quote
As I said before, there is nothing in written history or in archaeology to substantiate the size of army Plato describes.  That's why we're still looking for it, because there is no proof.  There is no proof, because it didn't exist.

What didn't exist Qoais? The army or Atlantis?

Compare the small nation of Israel that can put together an army of 2 million people while next door in Iran they can arrange some 300 million people.

How many people were involved in the battle against Xerxes, some half a million?
The Battle of Troy and Sea People invasions should have been larger.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of Absence, besides,Plato is one of our historical accounts or "written history" as you say.


Herodotus is credited with "coining" the term Atlantic Sea or Ocean outside of the Straites of Gibraltar.


Herodotus Book 1: Clio

203. Now the Caspian Sea is apart by itself, not having connection with the other Sea: for all that Sea which the Hellenes navigate, and the Sea beyond the Pillars, which is called Atlantis, and the Erythraian Sea are in fact all one, but the Caspian is separate and lies apart by itself.

203. [1] ἡ δὲ Κασπίη θάλασσα ἐστὶ ἐπ᾽ ἑωυτῆς, οὐ συμμίσγουσα τῇ ἑτέρῃ θαλάσσῃ. τὴν μὲν γὰρ Ἕλληνὲς ναυτίλλονται πᾶσα καὶ ἡ ἔξω στηλέων θάλασσα ἡ Ἀτλαντὶς καλεομένη καὶ ἡ Ἐρυθρὴ μία ἐοῦσα τυγχάνει. ἡ δὲ Κασπίη ἐστὶ ἑτέρη ἐπ᾽ ἑωυτῆς,

source;http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh1200.htm

Quote
The first part of its name refers to the Atlas of Greek mythology, making the Atlantic the "Sea of Atlas".

The oldest known mention of this name is contained in The Histories of Herodotus around 450 BC (I 202); see also: Atlas Mountains.

source;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Ocean

Quote
This is quite plain.  he traced the genealogy - reckoning up the dates - and computed how many YEARS.  Genealogy is the life of each of the ancestors.  You take the number of years each one lived and add it up to try to determine the total number of years.  How can that be misinterpreted?

The same way you just mis-interpreted it Qoais. Genealogy and lifespans are two different things. Genealogy or generations is when the next child is born.
Herodotus estimated 100 years for every 3 generations or 33.33 years each,this is what most Greek chronologists go by like Carlos Parada for example.
That is why Herodotus said 11,350 or so years for 341 kings from the first to the last being Psammeticus III ca.526.bC and not some 300,000 years for lifespans as you suggest.

Upon studying kings reigns for the mediterranean as I have shown, you will find an average of 25 years per generation while our "erroneus" modern Egyptian kings lists is a mere 11 years per king.

I guess I understand why you didn't comprehend what I was saying because of your view of generations.

Quote
There is no science proof that has shown there were chariots at that time.

To be honest, we don't have a precise dating for the chariot that could have been around in even 3000.bC since the wheel was invented already. Typically they attribute it around 1600.bC to the Hyksos just like they say they introduced the horse to egypt. The Tomb 100 map clearly shows horses in egypt ca 3200.bC.

Neither were Triremes, and I have explained why that is because of what Critias says at the end of the Timaeus dialogue where he is going to merge the old with the new for the Critias performance so that his audience can better relate to the story of antiquity being told.The story is also a progressive succession of history and not just 9000 or 8000 years ago.

That is why some people think that 9000 years was 900 years.

The Atlantean war occured sometime after Egypt's founding.There is something wrong with the translation of [9000 years "since" the war occurred] that should mean "within this 9000 year timeframe from Solon" was the war.

The same error is responsible for people thinking that Cecropes,Theseus and the Erichthonios kings who were some 300 years apart of each other fought in the Atlantean war because the priest "mentioned" those names "during" the account of the war.

How could Plato not have studied Herodotus? It would be the same to not study Homer's Illiad. I can't imagine Plato's academy not having a book of Herodotus.

Quote
IF Atlantis existed and she sunk, why is there no other mention of her or her people, or their trade with other countries?

There is, you just don't know what name to choose from because we aren't sure of Atlantis' real name. You've studied Atlantis long enough to know about the many different references to her Qoasis.

People should spend more time trying to figure out the Egyptian names first as I inspire and have shown.

Don't forget that the disaster of ATlantis portrays the Biblical flood where many had to start over. It's like they say for us that WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones.


.........Plato preserved the legend from Solon.................

He is not the author of Atlantis.


Quote
you with your cleverness should be able to figure out what Atlantis means in Egyptian, but the way you've been going on about how words in all these different languages are correlated, shows that you don't know the history of languages at all.  In over 2000 years, no one has figured out what Atlantis might have been in Egyptian.


Try again Qoasis.

It's all of you and historical "editors" who don't know the history of languages or even of our origins.One man's food is another man's poison.

You can't say who or when knew the name in Egyptian Qoais. I think Unsolved mysteries forums has polluted your mind with their cynical and negative attitudes.

Most people get sidetracked into looking for Atlantis rather than decrypting the Egyptian names as I have shown.......

........after 2580 years as you say. Isn't it nice that people are getting this info for free? I love inspiration. Smiley


Would you say the cup is half full or half empty Qoais? I bet you don't know the answer to that question. Why don't you ask your friends at UM? Bet they don't know either.

Besides,Qoais, if you believe Atlantis didn't exist, then all your work was in vain.

Success comes from believing.













 



Report Spam   Logged

[R]...Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis...[R]

New! Tribes of Atlantis Academy of Atlantis Research Forums; http://tribesofatlantis.freeforum.ca/index.php
Website; https://sites.google.com/site/tribesofatlantis/
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1947 on: April 12, 2010, 12:00:43 am »

Paulo, the question of the cup being half full or half empty is one of the oldest psychological questions in the book.  Supposedly, if one answers half empty, they have a negative attitude, if they answer half full, they have a positive attitude.  I say the container is presently holding half of it's capacity.

All my work was not in vain Paulo.  I've shown that Atlantis couldn't have existed as Plato wrote it.  All my searching and the answers I came up with, are in this thread, written like a diary as I went along, thinking one thing, changing my mind, learning something else, researching to see if there is anything at all that can corroborate the story without changing it into something else.  It doesn't work.    The people at UM are realistic.  They want facts and proof.  There isn't any.  There is only speculation. 

Yes I agree about Xerxes army, I was going to mention it myself as one of the largest in known ancient history.  But Paulo, we are talking long before that.  I'm still not how sure how many years you're trying to make it out to be, but as I said, the story specifically states that 9000 was the number of years.  Had they meant something else, some other way of measuring the time line, they would have said so.  It's not a complicated story.  If we keep it simple, it's not hard to figure it out. 

As I've said, for over 2000 years, no one has found a trace of Atlantis.  Supposedly it existed for a very long time.  Surely some of her people would have been living in other countries, running a trading post, or store or something.  When she went down, some of her people would have been in other countries and they would have survived to tell the tale.  But there isn't any surviving accounts.  Only Plato.  If they held sway over all of western Europe and the N. Western portion of Africa to Egypt, don't you think there would have been a lot of Atlanteans living in those parts, who would have kept a record of their history? their family line?

Plato didn't say the name Atlantis was an Egyptian name.  He said  that
Quote
you must not be surprised if you should perhaps hear Hellenic names given to foreigners.
  Meaning the names of people.  As I said before and you've agreed, that a Greek coined the name Atlantis (Herodotus, and another Greek perpetuated it, Plato).

Mentions of years:
.... She founded your city a thousand years before ours, receiving from the Earth and Hephaestus the seed of your race, and afterwards she founded ours, of which the constitution is recorded in our sacred registers to be eight thousand years old.
Timaeus page 2 at http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Atlantis/timaeus_page2.html
...As touching your citizens of nine thousand years ago,

...Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place

Critias, Page 2 at http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Atlantis/critias_page2.html

Success comes from checking out the facts - doing the research.  I have successfully  concluded from my research, that Atlantis did not exist. 



« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 12:07:02 am by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1948 on: April 12, 2010, 12:12:27 am »

Quote
Quoting Paulo:

How could Plato not have studied Herodotus?

Quoting myself:

Regarding what Plato knew of the Atlantic Ocean and Herodotus.  Plato was 3 when Herodotus died.  It's not known how long it would have taken for Herodotus to publish his works, especially his map so it's not known if Plato actually studied any of Herodotus' work.  I suspect that if he did, it would have been later in life, after he's already been taught that the western end of the known world was islands.  In all the Greek myths, it tells about the islands at the western end of the world.  This would have been Plato's mind set, until he possibly read Herodotus and learned that in fact the lay of the land was different.  However, since he is just telling a story, it is in keeping with the stories he had heard all his life of the myths which make the land in the west, islands.  By the time he wrote the story of Atlantis, we can see that he must have read Herodotus' work, since he does mention the Atlanteans that Herodotus mentioned, who lived near the Atlas mountains. 
Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 3423



« Reply #1949 on: April 12, 2010, 12:20:15 am »

History of the Wheel



A depiction of an onager-drawn carts on the Sumerian "battle standard of Ur" (circa 2500 BC)

(The Onager (Equus hemionus) is a large member of the genus Equus of the family Equidae (horse family) native to the deserts of Syria, Iran, Pakistan, India, Israel, and Tibet. It is sometimes known as the Wild Asian Ass.)

The wheel was originally invented in Mesopotamia in the 5th millennium BC (Ubaid period), originally in the function of potter's wheels.[citation needed]
Evidence of wheeled vehicles appears from the mid 4th millennium BC, near-simultaneously in Mesopotamia, the Northern Caucasus (Maykop culture) and Central Europe, so that the question which culture originally invented the wheeled vehicle remains unresolved and under debate. The earliest known depiction of what may be a wheeled vehicle (here a wagon—four wheels, two axles), is on the Bronocice pot, a ca. 3500–3350 BC clay pot excavated in southern Poland.[4][5]
The wheeled vehicle from the area of its first occurrence (Mesopotamia, Caucasus, Balkans, Central Europe) spreads across Eurasia, reaching the Indus Valley by the 3rd millennium BC. During the 2nd millennium BC, the spoke-wheeled chariot spreads at an increased pace, reaching both China and Scandinavia by 1200 BC. In China, the wheel is certainly present with the adoption of the chariot in ca. 1200 BC,[6] although Barbieri-Low (2000) argues for earlier Chinese wheeled vehicles, circa 2000 BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel
Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Pages: 1 ... 124 125 126 127 128 129 [130] 131 132 133 134 135 136 ... 141   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy