Plato's Atlantis My Theory

[Qoais]

Frisland was not the Isle of Avalon.  If Phillips is correct, the place he found which he believes is Merlin's resting place, (the Merlin of his book) it's just off the coast of Massachewsetts.  (sp?) 

What I had been thinking though, was that perhaps the island of Frisland did exist at one time, and maybe - like with the Bok Saga - a rememberer told the story of this island and somehow Plato and the Greeks heard the story.  Like maybe it WAS there and then it wasn't.  Then it was.  Then it wasn't.  If it is sitting in the proper location for such a thing to happen, could this island not be going up and down with the movement of the ocean floor?  Were there people like Plato, and Merlin, who were of a secret group, who knew of the New World all along, but kept it quiet?  Were they great thinkers and perhaps suspected that this New land would be ruined once the Europeans knew of it's existence? 

It seems the New Land was known to a few for sure, but was it known about 2000 years ago?  Did Plato maybe say it sank so as to put off those who would try to find it?  To discourage them from trying to find it?  Did Plato know even more than he let on when he told the story of Atlantis?

[Qoais]

I've said before, and I guess others have had the thought as well, that Plato could have been highly psychic.  I've also said he could have read the akashic records and now I've said he could have belonged to a secret society.  I think it all goes hand in hand. 

Perhaps it was the psychics who decided to find each other and make a society, people who understood about the "second sight" and where they could gather as a group to take the peyote or magic mushrooms in complete privacy and travel together to the psychic realms of revelation.  Maybe they each traveled alone and then told of their experiences at annual meetings or conventions.  Perhaps people like Merlin, and Socrates knew of the New World long since.  They saw it in their travels when their minds were in an altered state.  It's possible that Plato did know of an island that sunk since he'd traveled there in an altered state and "saw" it.  Maybe this "seeing" experience is them actually accessing the akashic records which play like a movie in 360 degrees so that you feel like you're actually there yourself. 

I've been wondering and wondering how it was we became civilized as it were.  How is it that the ancients of Greece contemplated the universe and the Egyptians seemingly understood the theory of reincarnation and spiritual advancement in the first place?  Did they perhaps have a lot of psychic talent to start with, that allowed them to see and understand the higher thinking?  Remember that in one story of Egypt, the architect supposedly went to sleep and dreamed how to make the pyramid.  He dreamed the knowledge of the stones and which rock was to be used, he dreamed the knowledge of engineering as to how to build the thing.  Tapping into the psychic consciousness of the universe perhaps. 

I mean, it bothers me that for hundreds of thousands of years, man supposedly never progressed mentally/mindally.  Then suddenly, he started doing stuff that he hadn't done before. Like building things.  Somewhere he got the knowledge of how to say, stack stones so they wouldn't fall over and build a protective wall for himself.  I know a lot of things can be learned from necessity - necessity being the mother of invention, but it had to START somewhere.  I suspect it did start with what were termed dreams but were really psychic visions and the knowledge was more or less gained by osmosis.  Something else I've always thought we should be capable of!!  Along with being able to communicate with mental telepathy.  When I was a kid, I always thought we should be able to just "know" stuff without having to do the lessons.  I do wish that's the way it would be today.  We could be so much further along in our advancement if that were true.

 

[Qoais]

So - if the Egyptians had psychic powers, did they perhaps have a little help?  Is it possible that the priests and royalty had hallucinogens that caused altered states of awareness?  Something that didn't give bad trips, but made them aware of something larger at work in the universe?

This is a rather long clip for a YouTube production, but it does explain how it's possible that the Blue Water Lily could have been used by the ancient Egyptians to alter their awareness.  The Blue Lily is depicted in a lot of Egyptian art (including some in the video that I've certainly never seen posted before!!!!)  Didn't even know the Egyptians did depictions of erotica!! 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5760375070244574893#

[Mario Dantas]

Dear Qoais,


Always "cutting edge" research! Nice film!

Egyptian way of life must have been a reflection of Atlantis... large delta cities must all look alike in a certain way, and of the many places upon which all the world population was scattered, the Nile and the Egyptian culture certainly was the best example of Atlantis and we even know that it had prime access to the tale of Atlantis and was the first reporter to Solon's old Greece that Atlantis as a large island that existed in the Atlantic... meaning that certain old "worshiping" had passed through time and managed to remain in people's mind as something that they longed from an very ancient time, like Christmas.

Very interesting material, i will look in for fossils, maybe there is a possible relationship with the exuberance of Laurissiilva forests... i wouldn't be that surprised if in fact you are to find, at least, something similar. India also as it, the veneration of Lotus also must be related.

it has been a while...

regards,
Mario Dantas

[Qoais]

Hi Mario
It has been some time, hasn't it?
I agree, large delta cities would of necessity have a lot of things in common, however, inasmuch as I've heard there WERE other cities that were built with consecutive rings, I've not seen any, nor actually know where they might have been.  Therefore, I'm wondering if Atlantis was unique with not only it's rings, but it's temple city in the middle of the rings.  The only other place I've read of such rings is in the Urantia Book talking about the first city on earth, 500,000 years ago, being built like much Atlantis is described, but then, there's no proving the Urantia Book so it's not accepted as a source for anything.

"Worshiping" - yes, that's quite a word isn't it?  It's not until a creature realizes it has a consciousness that he then finds himself in awe of his surroundings and it may dawn on him to wonder at it - to see nature in action, and then thoughts  and wonderings regarding these phenoms coalesce into the idea that nature is to be treated with something beyond what the creature has so far treated even himself, and we have the beginnings for worship.  Not understanding something, like fire, other than knowing it can hurt you and you have no control over it, would certainly cause you to show respect.  If you've just developed a consciousness, you could be forgiven for thinking the fire is a god. 

I think the time line for when man developed consciousness is more important than when he was homo this, that or ...whatever.  For to be aware of oneself, to have a consciousness seems to me, to be when the mind has opened enough to understand ideas, theories, spirituality.  When it has opened for psychic information to be received - firstly - and eventually, also to send.  I'm sure man "received" psychic information, long before he figured out that it even existed and that he could control it.  Which means that there had to be "someone or something" someWHERE, to be sending to the humans in the first place. 

When asked what religion he was, the Dali Lhama  said he had no religion, if it was a religion at all, it was the religion of kindness.  Those who have raised themselves in enlightenment as have the Tibetan monks, know that religion per se, is man made, and used for control of others.  When one has raised themselves that high, they know more than the average bear about what the mind can do, what the universe is made of and how even we as puny as we are, can overcome the known laws of physics and perform what the common people would call miracles.  When in reality, it is setting the mind to the vibrational level required, for whatever task is at hand.  (and it ain't easy!!)

According to those who have written about the Atlanteans, namely Plato, Herodotus and Edgar Cayce, they've all said that in the beginning, the Atlanteans were very "spiritual" people.  I take this to mean highly enlightened such as the Dali Lhama, living in peace and harmony with their surroundings, taking nothing they didn't need, and helping any who were less fortunate than themselves.  Gradually, they lost that aspect of their natures and became more interested in materialistic things.  Then of course the big slide downwards!!

People say "if they were so far advanced" why don't we have proof?"  If I could sing a song, and break a glass by doing so, how do you prove it 11,000 years later?  What is there to show as proof, for what I have done? 

Skeptics are very quick to laugh and ridicule people who believe in Atlantis, and can be very mean about it, but I say there has to be a beginning, evolution or no evolution.  A beginning where the mind opened and somehow psychic information was transfered.  Which made us become one more step removed from our "cousins" the monkey.  But the point is, there is still a lot that hasn't been discovered and that which has, is even more baffling. 

Look at Puma Punku for instance.  More finely engineered that the pyramids, and 13,000 years older, being supposedly, 17,000 years old or so.  Personally, I would say the gigantic blocks have been made of a poured product, and if they have been as finely cut as is said, I don't believe it was done with a mere bow drill and sand.  It's the indentations that are so interesting and unique.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocr0kY81qKQ&feature=PlayList&p=5B0CECF7ED6EC645&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10

[Qoais]

It Figures!  I KNEW they'd change the time line sooner or later, they had to.  Stuff just won't fit otherwise.

ScienceDaily (Sep. 23, 2009) — After decades of debate and four years of investigation an international body of earth scientists has formally agreed to move the boundary dates for the prehistoric Quaternary age by 800,000 years, reports the Journal of Quaternary Science.

The decision has been made by the International Commission on Stratigraphy (ICS), the authority for geological science which has acted to end decades of controversy by formally declaring when the Quaternary Period, which covers both the ice age and moment early man first started to use tools, began.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090922095703.htm

[Qoais]

Long Debate Ended Over Cause, Demise Of Ice Ages? Research Into Earth's Wobble

I KNEW THAT!!   

I never believed the theory that humans were responsible for global warming.  If that was the case, where are the lost civilizations that caused the previous global warming trends that gave us several different ice ages in between?

ScienceDaily (Aug. 7, 2009) — Researchers have largely put to rest a long debate on the underlying mechanism that has caused periodic ice ages on Earth for the past 2.5 million years – they are ultimately linked to slight shifts in solar radiation caused by predictable changes in Earth's rotation and axis.

In a publication to be released Friday in the journal Science, researchers from Oregon State University and other institutions conclude that the known wobbles in Earth's rotation caused global ice levels to reach their peak about 26,000 years ago, stabilize for 7,000 years and then begin melting 19,000 years ago, eventually bringing to an end the last ice age.
The melting was first caused by more solar radiation, not changes in carbon dioxide levels or ocean temperatures, as some scientists have suggested in recent years.
"Solar radiation was the trigger that started the ice melting, that's now pretty certain," said Peter Clark, a professor of geosciences at OSU. "There were also changes in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels and ocean circulation, but those happened later and amplified a process that had already begun."
The findings are important, the scientists said, because they will give researchers a more precise understanding of how ice sheets melt in response to radiative forcing mechanisms.


Sometime around now, scientists say, the Earth should be changing from a long interglacial period that has lasted the past 10,000 years and shifting back towards conditions that will ultimately lead to another ice age – unless some other forces stop or slow it. But these are processes that literally move with glacial slowness, and due to greenhouse gas emissions the Earth has already warmed as much in about the past 200 years as it ordinarily might in several thousand years, Clark said.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090806141512.htm

[Qoais]

Back to psychic powers and what they mean to someone who has them. 
I've been having discussions in another forum about evolution.  Let me tell you, people who study that subject treat it more religiously than do churchgoers!!  However, when I asked where, in the line of evolution, man developed consciousness, they could not answer me.

The difference between man, and his distant cousin the monkey, is that although both can be taught to do things, the monkey does not seem to grasp "concepts" and nor does the monkey teach what it has been taught, other than what they already pass on by way of natural behavior.  So I'm kind of wondering how this consciousness we have that raises us higher in our reasoning powers, came to be and how we realized there was something more than being a cave man.  I got to thinking that maybe somewhere along the line, someone went into a semi-sleep state and went astral traveling by mistake and learned a few things, came back and told everyone else what he'd seen and they thought he was special so they made him a Shaman!!  I mean, a lot of cultures say they were taught how to do things by "gods" from the sky.  Well, when you astral travel, you leave your body and soar like a bird, so you're "flying" and since you're flying, you're above the earth, right?  So, when you astral travel, you meet people who help you out and teach you things, and when you come back, you think those entities live in the sky, that that's where they come from. 

It's not hard to imagine that magic mushrooms grow pretty much everywhere, and cave men looking for food, likely tried just about everything.  I mean, how did they figure out what to eat and what not to in the first place?  So, it's not hard to figure that people on different sides of the world would experience the same things when they went astral travelling and learned the same things, and came back and taught what they'd learned.  From this, society and extended knowledge was born.  We started to know more than our cousins, and used the knowledge gained to start building shelters and so forth. 

Since I have a bit of a psychic bent myself, I find this easy to accept.  I mean, how else does caveman learn what to do?  How long were they hunter/gatherers before they finally got the machinery working?  The little gray cells stimulated??  We were supposedly cavemen a hell of a lot longer than we've been civilized, so what took so long?

[Qoais]

Something just twigged with me.  Remember that book that came out years ago called Clan of the Cave Bear, by Jean Auel?  The heroine in that story was being taught to be a medicine woman, and at one point she had to make the concoction that the chiefs used, when they wanted to "study the omens" or whatever.  She was warned explicitly that she should take none of the liquid as it would kill her, but she got some on her tongue just the same, and boy did she trip out.  She saw the future, with airplanes and skyscrapers, but of course wasn't really aware what they were and had no way to describe what she'd seen either. I think Jean Auel was onto something there.  It's possible that the way we first started becoming civilized was through the psychic powers of certain people, with a little help from mother nature.

[Robert0326]

Evolution through natural selection is a slow tedious process.  That's what took so long.  And consciousness is a state of awareness and the ability to adapt to ones surroundings.  I would venture to guess mans consciousness surfaced  with the arrival of homo habilis 1.6 million years ago.  But who knows.  It could have surfaced with the recently discovered ARDI.  Unfortunately the farther you go back in history the harder it is to find evidence and they didn't leave an diaries lying around.

[Qoais]

Hi Robert0326

I agree evolution took a long time.  BUT as you say, if we developed consciousness 1.6 million years ago and became "aware", it certainly took us a long time to figure out how to build shelters of something more substantial than hides, and how to farm etc.  And here's the thing.   
Once we did develop consciousness - who was it that the Shamans were contacting in the spirit world that knew how to teach them?  Their ancestors didn't know as much as they did, because supposedly each generation learns a bit more and adds to the knowledge base.  So you wouldn't want to be contacting your great grandfather about building a new hut, because HE didn't have a clue, HE lived in a cave.  So, who was in the spirit world already that had knowledge they could pass on?  Means there had to be someone already more highly evolved that died, and could then be contacted.  I'm saying this in the case of ancestor worship, where they contacted those who had gone before. 
I guess what I'm trying to say is, whoever is in the other realm that is being contacted, must have already been highly developed, (higher than caveman anyway) to be able to show the caveman how to grow food and domesticate animals. (or whatever)  I'm saying that because a lot of cultures have a folktale about the gods coming from the sky (or water) and teaching them farming, and government, and writing and building, etc.  Well, where did those entities live before they died that they had this knowledge? 

Interesting.  I think when we die, we are free to know and understand a heck of a lot more than we do when we live here on earth.  I think we are then aware of other beings on other planets, other beings in different vibrational levels, and that the group consciousness of all these entities is accessible, if we knew how.  I think all entities reincarnate, until such time as they have worked they way towards the ultimate goal on this plane and don't have to come back anymore.  But that doesn't mean they aren't carrying on elsewhere. 

Anyway, what I was getting at in my earlier post about it taking a long time for us to start developing our manufacturing and structural skills as compared to with how long we've been "conscious", was that it seems to be out of balance.  This is just my theory and I'm just rambling in my thoughts here.  Let's say we WERE "conscious" 1.6 million years ago, instead of the 4.4 million years ago when Ardi was roaming the planet and we started to make psychic contact with superior beings and we started to do what they taught.  SCIENCE tells us, that it's only been in the last 40,000 of those 1.6 million years that we figured out the farming thing.  Then, it took another 35 and a half thousand years until we finally built the pyramids, forgot how to do it, and then in the last 100 years, we've sent space probes to mars. 

Something's happening here, what it is, ain't exactly clear!!

[Robert0326]

I believe that our brains have not evolved to the point of being able to have psychic abilities.  Although I'm sure many on this forum would disagree with me.  Now as far as Shamans communing with long dead ancestors, there has been instances that they use hallucinogenic herbs, berries in order to achieve an altered state of consciousness.   Past life regressions can be attributed to the mind being very pliable in deep hypnosis.  Anyways that is my opinion on the subject.

[Mandy Esser]

I like that story about Clan of the Cave Bear.  I saw the movie, don't remember that in there, was it in the book?

[Qoais]

Hi Mandy
Yes it was in the book.  You remember she had 2 sons?  One from when one of the clan members raped her and then she had another one.  When she tripped out, she saw that she had a second son (she hadn't had him yet) and then she saw that her present and the future were divided and that the one son would never be more than a cave man but the other son would advance by leaps and bounds and be a son of the "future" sort of thing.  I really liked that books and the one that came after as well.  Still got them around here someplace.

[Qoais]

Here's a link to a video called Entheogenic Shamanism - Ancient Astronauts History  It's almost an hour long, but most interesting.  It's about this very thing, basically altered states of consciousness and when man might have started using mind altering plants etc., for purposes of gaining information.

I find this rather interesting really - wondering about when we became "conscious" and was it then that we could start using psychic powers?  Or did we have to develop a bit of a higher intelligence on our own first?  Speech really fascinates me.  I've said before that in all reality, we should be talking in grunts and squeaks and hoots and chirps, and so forth, mimicking the sounds we heard around us.  Science says we're still "animals" so why is it only we who developed the jaw that allows speech and why did we have to have such a jaw in the first place?  So we could evolve higher and higher?  If that's the case then we were pre-planned I think.