the Sinking of Atlantis

[Gwen Parker]

Hi All ,

I agree with Gwen that a tsunami itself does not explain the sinking of Atlantis ...That just never made sense in my mind. Any tsunami would be a symptom of the sinking itself I reckon.

 Over at AR ,Georgeos has said he is close to releasing some kind of report about ancient tsunami evidence in southern Spain.

Hi Mark,

Did you ever notice that Georgeos only relseases information that supports his theory?  And even then, it tends to be very vague and unscientific.  I have yet to see something tangible from him that cuts through the propaganda.  If there were such a thing, then the world media would pick up on it, like it did with the findings of the Milos Conference, or the work of Sarmast or Girard.

Gwen

[Mark of Australia]

Bluhue, the global tsunami theory of 855 bc is a bit wacky. 

Hi Gwen ....   A 'bit' wacky ?   a GLOBAL tsunami ?  that was caused by the Moon (that's right,the MOON) hitting the Pacific Ocean or something like that .

Well I suppose it's not as wacky as nuclear weapons 9000 years ago .Although the part about the moon is .


.....About Georgeos ,well I notice he is really annoying Cern over there at AR .    ,We'll see what he can come up with . As you suggest ,he has not presented anything of substance so we'll see if he can present anything of value about these supposed tsunami. As for the circular cities ,they are an interesting novelty,but not that much more.

[Bianca]

QUOTE:


"Well I suppose it's not as wacky as nuclear weapons 9000 years ago ."



Wacky or not, Mark, I'm 'sticking' with THAT theory.....

Ciao, Bello!!!

[Mark of Australia]

Hi Bianca ,

   As I was writing that I was thinking how you subsribe to the nuclear theory ...

For now it seems wacky to most people ,even me , but I have an open mind and the last thing I would ever want to do is hinder the investigation into the nuke idea ,I atleast consider it possible... I guess I was having a dig at BlueHue more than anything 

If anymore evidence comes to light about the nuke theory I'll be the first to take it seriously ...honest.

Ciao Bella   ( is that right?)   

[Bianca]

Ciao Bella   ( is that right?)   


That's Great!!!


ROTFLMAO, Mark.  You don't need to be agreable, I know that theory
of mine is 'out there', but one NEVER knows......

I'm going to have to track down the others who have/had the same
suspicions.....

Hugs to you both,

Tutti Belli  (All Beautiful Ones!!!)

[Desiree]

I totally believe in the possibility of an ancient nuclear war at 10,000 bc!  The Indian cities of of Rajasthan, Harappa and Mohenjo Daro were all abandoned and show evidence of an atomic blast. 

Not only that, there have been found vitrified forts in Scotland (vitrification evidence of strong heat), and, of course, the Libyan glass! 

As for the high tech part of it, I agree that is part of the problem.  However!  If the world was actually destroyed by an atomic blast, just how much evidence of that would be left?

[Bianca]

LIBYAN GLASS THREAD:


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,1929.0.html




ANCIENT ATOMIC KNOWLEDGE?


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,1760.0.html




ANCIENT FLYING MACHINES (VIMANAS)


http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,1659.0.html

[Bianca]

Interestingly, Manhattan Project chief scientist Dr J. Robert Oppenheimer was known to be familiar with ancient Sanskrit literature. In an interview conducted after he watched the first atomic test, he quoted from the Bhagavad Gita:

'Now I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds.'
I suppose we all felt that way.




When asked in an interview at Rochester University seven years after the Alamogordo nuclear test whether that was the first atomic bomb ever to be detonated, his reply was:



"Well, yes, in modern history........."25




At the bottom of Post #38, here:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,4333.30.html

[Desiree]

That's interesting, it would be cool to do some more digging on that to find what his views on the ancient nuclear war actually were.  What did he believe supported it?  Did he see Mohenjo Daro and, if so, what was opinion on it?  He would be in the best position to know!

[Adam Hawthorne]

Another candidate for the event that triggered the destruction of Atlantis:


Comet Wiped Out Early North American Culture, Animals, Study Says   
John Roach
for National Geographic News

May 23, 2007
A comet exploded over North America about 13,000 years ago, causing a long bout of climate cooling, according to a controversial new theory presented today.

The extraterrestrial impact may help explain massive mammal die-offs and the demise of one of the earliest American cultures.



Comet Hale-Bopp as seen as it passed over Mexico in 1997. A new study suggests that the impact of a comet some 13,000 years ago may have caused the extinction of ancient mammals and brought about the demise of one of North America's earliest cultures.

Photograph by Jose Fernando Barral Caballero, courtesy NASA/JPL


RELATED
Clovis Point Culture: Photos, Map, More
Ice Age Bison Decline Not Due to Hunting, Study Says (November 30, 2004)
First Americans Arrived Recently, Settled Pacific Coast, DNA Study Says (February 2, 2007)
It would also be the first known extraterrestrial impact to affect modern humans.

Evidence for the impact comes from a thin layer of sediment found throughout North America, said James Kennett, a geologist at the University of California in Santa Barbara.

"There are materials with particular chemistries in that layer that collectively provide very strong evidence that the layer was produced by this extraterrestrial impact," he said in a telephone interview.

Kennett said the layer contains tiny spheres of carbon and metals, bits of diamonds, and extraterrestrial concentrations of helium 3 and the element iridium.

The layer dates to 12,900 years ago, he added.

At about the same time, according to the researchers, Earth's climate cooled; mammals like mammoths, mastodons, and saber-toothed cats went extinct; and one of the first American cultures disappeared.

Kennett and colleagues outlined evidence of the impact and its repercussions at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union this week in Acapulco, Mexico.

Climate Cooling

The timing of the impact, according to Kennett, coincides with an era of climate cooling known as the Younger Dryas.

"We are suggesting for the first time that this very abrupt and large cooling that occurred at 12.9 thousand years ago … was triggered by the extraterrestrial impact," he said.

The impact would have destabilized an ice sheet over North America, which allowed large bodies of fresh water to drain into the ocean and alter circulation patterns, he explained.

The change in currents included a temporary halt to one that brings warm, tropical waters to the North Atlantic.

Scientists have long debated whether the cooling event or human hunters are responsible for the extinction of the so-called North American megafauna.

At least 17 species are thought to have gone extinct around the time of the proposed impact, according to the researchers.

(Read related story: "Humans to Blame for Ice Age Extinctions, Study Says" [August 10, 2005].)

"We find it rather unbelievable that human hunters would drive a fairly large variety of animals into extinction fairly suddenly at 13,000 years ago," Douglas Kennett, an archaeologist at the University of Oregon in Eugene, said in a telephone interview.

Douglas is James Kennett's son and a project team member.

"We think a better explanation is this dramatic [impact] event, which would be coupled with the fallout and major changes in climate and environments that would have associated with it," he continued.

Douglas added that the impact may be linked to the disappearance of the Clovis culture. Clovis people are considered to be among the earliest Americans and at one time were thought to be the first.

According to Douglas, archaeological evidence suggests Clovis populations, which were spread out across the Americas prior to 12,900 years ago, became fragmented.

The archaeological record shows a time gap between the presence of Clovis people and later cultures, particularly in the Great Lakes region where the comet is thought to have struck, he added.

"The basic story seems to be, there's more of a gap in the East and less of a gap in the West," he said.

Findings Questioned

David Meltzer is an archaeologist at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas, who is not part of the research team. He said the theory is far from proven.

First, he said, the team must prove a comet did in fact hit Earth 12,900 years ago, an issue that geologists will eventually resolve.

Then, if an impact is demonstrated, the team has to show what the effects were.

"At the moment, the issues are far more complicated than all animals died at once and people suffered tremendously," he said.

For example, some of the big animals went extinct well before the proposed impact, and others disappear later.

Nor does Meltzer see evidence for the disappearance of Clovis populations.

"At least out on the [Great] Plains, populations are booming [at the time of impact], they're not declining at all despite this horrific global conflagration," he said.

 
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/05/070523-comet-impact.html

[BlueHue]

Dear. . . . GWEN,
You know my standpoint that the last global tsunami hit atlantis in 855 bc and that this Event trigerred Tectonicf faultline Tsunamies simulaneously all over the globe.  Wich indeed is always misdated at 1650 or 1200 bc.

The story of the Moon hitting the Earth at the Pacific region is encountered in all folkMyths.  In Isreal it was called the Falling of the Splendour of Israel(= THE ANGEL AZRAEL.)in christian lore it was the Devil, in Greek Myth it was Typhoneus/ PHAETHON, the " Son of Helios "( Helios is mistook for the Sun , but it was ther Moon that got the name of the Silver Sun ( Night Sun) towards Hyperion the gold Sun. Sincerly, " BlueHue" dd 3 Dec.2007

BlueHue, the global Tsunami theory of 855 bc is a bit wacky.  The reason why that 1650 date comes in is, of course, the Santorini explosion.  Something simliar must have happened in 1200 bc, to bring about the Greek Dark Ages.  In your era, 855 bc, not only is there no such evidence that something happened, but the Med was re-emerging from the Dark Ages and getting into writing again.  Also, there is evidence for an ancient global tsunami 8,000 years ago, none in 855 bc!  Gwen

Dear,. . . . . . GWEN,    ADAM   &   Desiree,  


10.000 years ago or longer the Earth was not orbiting the SUN, but rather as a Satelite of Planet Jupiter( with the accompaging Silt-stratifications that satelite-Moon, IO is experiencing at the moment,  ( most impact craters on Earth must have originated during this phase in Earth's orbit .)

As the REAL Atlantis was built in an empty Volcano set on a beach in ADEN, and not as an isle in any "Atlantic", but the GULF of ADEN,

it is obvious that, as most Atlantologists, you either never have read Velikovsky's Book(-s) about" Worlds-in-Collision" or ignored them. He placved the submergence of Atlantis in the nineth Century bc.   And if that is right all historians were wrong, that's why the" Scientific" community boycotted his first book in 1950.

My theory was that all " Last" Tsunamies that had supposedly washed away Atlantis into the surrounding coastal Abyss must be dated at 855 bc. Atlantis existed only some 200 stormy years inbetween TWO-global-Tsunamies 1075-855 bc with minor once inbetween.

NOT mentioned by PLATO, is that these Atlanteans employed a-White- arabic Elephant race as" TSUNAMI-GUARDIANS"(= Cherubs in Bible.) Why don't we know that ? ? Simple: in 855 bc Assyrian emperor Salmanasser-3 took Atlantis from the egyptiaqn crown, and murdered the 1.000 " PILLARS"(= White-Elephants!) from' Ad-Hirem'.)  Why, " for a silly thing" Because they were responsable for causing Erthquakes & Tsunamies" that's why a Silly TABOO,  isn't it ?

PEOPLE that believe in Nuclear explosions, Comets falling to Earth causing global extinction  and Dark-ages in Greek history, are very skeptic, but to think of two Global Tsunamies that were caused by the Moon hitting Earth twice, in 1075/ 855 bc seems too much to ask for the stretch of the imagination?

" Never heard about" ? The Moon Falling to Earth so that  be a wacky idea?  NOT SO, celestial objects falling to Earth are no rarity in Hindu Lore nor greek Myth nor Bible-Lore if You do not equate the" SPLENDOUR -of- ISRAEL" with the " Moon falling to Earth" , than you are just throwing away 1.000 years of cryptic descriptions of Celestial movements, who's existence has been censored for various moral reasons in ancient history !

A FREQUENTLY ASKED Question is " WHY people would hide or deny the Moon as an object falling to Earth The first reason is that you must be mad " because the Moon is receding from Earth and not falling to it so it must have been receding from Earth in the past too(  Not taking in account the simple fact, that by the [ present]speed it would have bypassed Earth ! since it was caputerd as a lone sattelite.)

Taking in account " Myths from a time that no Moon were orbiting Earth" is explained-away that the ancient observers must have been wacky ormisled, or mislaid their ( Newtonic-)telescopes not to have noticed the Moon at night !)

About the DARK AGES(= dd. 1500-1000 bc,  or sometimes 1.200- 855 bc, after and in the Wake of Dr Velikovsky's revised chronology findings and the Doublures in Myths and Dynastic histories, other even History-professional scholars have now noticed the same chronology sequence anomalies that Dr Vekiovsky noticed 60 years ago, but was being ridiculed for at the time !

We now know that the invasion of Greece by Minoan people in 3500 bc is a fallacy, Sure that invasion happened but in the " Revised Chronology" it happened around 1.000 bc, not 2500 years earlier.   ( But what's in a few thousand years ? ? ! or 1.000 miles apart :" Peanuts " ?!)

BAUVAL & HANCOCK have dated the building of the Pyramids of the 4th-Dynasty by  KUFRU, KAFRA & MENKAURE , as in 10.000 bc because of STAR( Sirius-)Alignements, their findings are incorrect as we know that they were built around 2.000 bc and not in 10.000 bc,

The present -24000 yeasr cycle-preccesion-Sothis dating or Egyptian Chronology is faulty so any extrapolations in the past on faulty data makes a faulty assumption  I havwe E-maile Bauval & Hanck in the past asking whether they were willing to use Dr. Velikovsky's findings as a" second- Opinion-Project" but they refused to retrack their 10.000 bc bit just as any ordinary Atlantologist would, who are still using the conventional data of Egyptian history designed by Dr Emile Brugsch .

Dr Emile Brugsch compiled his ( Now Standard.)egyptian chronology in 1850 and published it in 1855 wholy, ignoring the Turine or other known egyptian chronology Steles. based solely on the Greek rendering of Manethoon's 33-Dynasties scroll from the " AEGYPTIAKA" not using Egyptian sources directly because,  at that time in 1850, no scholar  was  yet able to read Hieroglyphs, because although Champolion had discovered their meaning, in 1834,  he didn't publish it because he died of Tuberculosis and thus the meaning of Dynastic Timetables could only be appreciated after 1860 when  only by sponsership of the british-Library, Champolion's brother published the Hieroglyphic discovery posthumiously.

When after 1860 discrepancies were noticed which appeared  between Brusch's greek based Chronology and the actual egyptian based chronolgy the discrepansies were ignored only to be re-discoverd by Dr Velikovsky about a 100 years later and than be ridiculed as not allowed alterations of established dating"  Velikovsky's Revised Chronology was tabooed as: " Unothodox " AND  EVERY -professional- EGYPTOLOGIST knows this, but keeps his mouth shut not to be defrocked from his Academic Titulature !

BUT as you have not carefully read my previous posts or ignored them, nor ever gave a comment on my (" Ridicdulous"?) blue subscript, this latest information is, as  you will -undoubtedly- say, " wacky thus not meant for your eyes " !

Sure you can compare me with ' GEORGEOS ' and his " wacky"-scientific-  theory of a mudshoal on Atlantis that stayed there supposedly " immobile " while this sub-marine isle off Cape Spartel is situated in the abrasive silt-Tidalzone of a narrow Sea-Strait !     Thus that this is the same MUD that  was wiped-off from Atlantis down the deep- coastal abyss is a fallacy !      By ignoring this theory, one also misses-out on the opportunity, that " GEORGEOS' theory, has never been accused nor attacked upon, thus Whether in 9.000 or 900 bc is unimportant. ( I got a Zero mark for MATHS in junior-College, but PLATO would call my " Georgeos" -observation very " GEOMETRIC" I am sure !)
My debuking Georgeos Theory was seen by him as " MEDDLING IN HIS PRIVATE AFFAIRS" !

BIANCA other than you, is very familiar with my theories, she is annoyed by my rehashing" old-information ", but I have to, since all, Atlantologists seem to be masters of Misreading and corrupting Plato's geographic reference points!  Like the respected Rais, RAJESH, and RAVEN, if not Mark Ponta & Herbert, they relish in their -impossible- own Theories of " Atlantis" in geologically-recented torne off isles as Malta, Azores or India-proper, the Mediaterranean or America, whilst this is virtually proven to be impossible">) Only JULIA & QOAIS and Titeia are risking to be riddiculled, like me, for roaming South- Arabia looking for the-original-volcanic- AD-Land ( and making quite a good job of it !@)! ( I was hoping in vain, that ATALANTE & You were going to join the Fray !.)

Sincerely,  " BlueHue " dd. 12 Dec. 2007     

[Trinity]

Epic Flood Triggered Ancient "Big Chill," Study Says     
John Roach
for National Geographic News
December 6, 2007
An epic gush of fresh water into the North Atlantic slowed a deep ocean current and triggered a century-long chill in Europe and North America some 8,200 years ago, according to a new study.

The finding confirms scenarios suggested by previous models of the ancient climate and should raise confidence in predictions made about how the oceans will respond to Greenland's rapidly melting glaciers, an outside expert said.

 
Global Warming May Alter Atlantic Currents, Study Says (June 27, 2005)
Weather: Photos, Fast Facts, More
Photo Gallery: "Oil, Potatoes Signs of Greenland Warming" (October 17, 2007)
Some scientists are concerned that Greenland's fast-melting ice could again slow the deep current, sparking changes in weather around the world ranging from reduced rainfall to a new mini ice age.

The current, called the North Atlantic Deep Water, helps keep Europe's climate mild. It shuttles cold, dense waters from the northern seas to the tropics, allowing the warm surface waters of the Gulf Stream to flow north. (Learn more about weather patterns.)

Since fresh water is less dense than cold salt water, climate models suggest a flood of fresh water into the North Atlantic should force the current to slow or shut down.

Scientists suspect the sudden draining of North America's ancient glacial lake Agassiz—which was seven times larger than all of the Great Lakes combined—caused a well-studied cold snap about 8,200 years ago. But evidence that the deep-water current slowed was lacking.

Now, a team of European scientists has found the evidence in the contents of a 39-foot (12-meter) plug of seabed mud pulled from some 11,200 feet (3,400 meters) deep in the northwest Atlantic.

"We show that there's a sudden disruption in the deep circulation which takes place just at the time of the flood outburst," said Helga Kleiven, a paleoclimate expert at the Bjerknes Center for Climate Research in Bergen, Norway.

She and her colleagues report the finding in tomorrow's issue of the journal Science.

Evidence Found in Ancient, Tiny Bugs

Kleiven and her colleagues drilled the core off the southern tip of Greenland, where sediment-rich deep waters slow down and deposit their loads.

"The sedimentation rate is 10 to 15 times higher at these drift sites than they are in the rest of the North Atlantic," Kleiven said.

[Trinity]

A satellite image shows southern Greenland.

A recent study of ancient sediments collected near there suggests that a huge influx of fresh water from a giant glacial lake altered ocean currents and caused a century-long chill in Europe and North America.

Image from Getty Images/Digital Vision

The researchers identified a section of the core that corresponds to a hundred-year period around 8,200 years ago. The chemistry of the sediment there is unlike that from any other time over the past 10,000 years, Kleiven said.

The sediment grains in this section are also much smaller, suggesting the larger, heavier grains had already fallen out of slower-moving waters or were never picked up.

In addition, oxygen isotopes in the shells of microscopic bugs found in this section suggest the surface water temperature was markedly colder.

"Basically, we have this deepwater response which we see in both chemical and sedimentological properties fitting right in time with the [draining of] glacial lake Agassiz," Kleiven said.

"And also on top of that, by looking at … these little bugs, we strengthen the connection between deep ocean change and the climate anomaly."

Richard Alley is a glaciologist at Pennsylvania State University who originally proposed in 1997 that changes in ocean circulation could have triggered the cooling that occurred 8,200 years ago.

He said the core preserves the short-term record beautifully and corresponds well with the climate record detected in ice cores pulled from Greenland.

"The data are just so clean," he said.

No Day After Tomorrow?

The new findings suggest that the changes in the ocean circulation pattern and cooling of the ocean surface happened over the course of a few decades at most, Kleiven noted.

"The response we see in these deep-ocean changes [is that] they occur on timescales which are rapid enough [that] they could impact human societies," she said.

While no immediate freshwater supply the size of lake Agassiz exists today, Greenland's rapidly melting ice sheets could potentially slow the deepwater current and affect global weather patterns.

A slowing could thrust large portions of Europe and North America into a mini ice age and weaken the monsoon rains in Africa and Asia.

"That's the rain that a couple billion people rely on for crops," Alley said.

This fear has even spilled over to Hollywood, where it inspired the 2004 eco-disaster film The Day After Tomorrow. (Read: "'Day After Tomorrow' Ice Age 'Impossible,' Researcher Says" [May 27, 2004].)

To study the possibility of future freshwater-induced disasters, scientists build computer models based on their understanding of past events like the cooling 8,200 years ago.

The new sediment core findings, Alley noted, suggest that these climate models are accurate.

And this, he added, is good news. When scientists plug the melting rates of Greenland's ice sheets into these models, they indicate catastrophe will most likely be avoided.

As an analogy, he equated potential disasters like a shutdown of the North Atlantic Deep Water to drunk drivers on a dark road.

"We now have confidence that there are fewer drunk drivers out there than we thought there were," he said. "But they're not gone."



http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/071206-ocean-currrent_2.html

[Trinity]

Isn't this something?  The Day After Tommorrow practically happened in ancient times.
I don't remember the article citing the event that caused it originally, though.

[docyabut]

Plato never said Atlantis  and Athens sank at the same time  only in a like manner. Also he never said Atlantis went under by one biblical like flood or one earthquake, but many floods and earthquakes. Also the priest explained there are many causes of the destruction of man and some  of which recurr after long intervals, Whereas in this land, neither then nor at any other time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below.


PERIODICITY OF NATURAL CATASTROPHES

A) Discontinuous Subsidence

Around 2500 years ago, in ~ 500 b.C., some ancient European towns founded on river deltas underwent a sudden subsidence which brought them below the sea level. The most evident example is that of the city of Sybaris,(Calabria), which underwent a subsidence of about 6 m. The same thing happened at the same time (~ 500 b.C) to the city of Velia (Campania), which was buried under 4 m af alluvium. Still in 500 B.C. the city of Tartesso, Southern Spain, is said to have disappeared in a short time.

It is foreseen that around 2010 the same phenomenon will very likely repeat itself ,due to the recurring cycle of G, which every 2510 years hits our planet either with the effect of a decrease or , alternately, with an increase of gravitational values . The next decrease in G will change the electric field of the solid Earth, with the consequence of a rapid consolidation of al the fine sediments which were deposited in the last 12,500 years. Entire cities built on river deltas, such as Bangkok and New Orleans, will undergo a sudden subsidence of a few meters, and consequently many of their urban zones will end up below sea level.

In the Netherlands, the Rhine and Meuse deltas are also exposed to the same dangewr. In Italy, many areas of recent deposition will suffer heavy subsidence phenomena, such as for instance the zone of the International Airport of Fiumicino in Rome and the area of the Tower of Pisa.

http://tetide.geo.uniroma1.it/sciterra/sezioni/mortari/Current%20Research.htm