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Astronomy of the Sphinx

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mdsungate
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« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2007, 04:06:18 pm »

 Smiley  I’ve had this thought before in regards to the signs of the Zodiac having fixed places on the earth that corresponded to the heavenly constellations. The Orion Theory in Egypt did not come as a surprise to me.

So if the pyramids of Egypt show the constellation of Leo and the pyramids of China at Xiam show the constellation of the Sign of Gemini, (both as they were the constellations that were rising at dawn in those places in 10,500 B.C.),  then it is a simple calculation to predict where the rest of the signs of the Zodiac fall on the globe.



I take notice that Libra is where Atlantis would have been.  This is very interesting in that the symbol of Libra, the scales of Justice, are a pivotal point, and the scales can lean either way.  It is the perfect symbol for a "prime meridian" of ancient times. 

I wonder if the ancient Zodiac symbols don't actually take their symbology of the lands on earth, rather than the reverse.  Leo the lion is in Egypt, where the Pharohs hunted Lions. 

Gemini the twins is in China, where the idea of Siamese twins still persists today.  And for some reason the Chinese make a very big deal out of twins, (I have twins and they always get so excited by that??). 

And Aquarius lies over the Pacific where there is nothing but water.  What better place than for the sign of the "water bearer", LOL.  Any comments "B" our resident astrologer Wink
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Bianca
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« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2007, 04:40:03 pm »




Well, unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, the Arabian peninsula falls under Leo, which
might make sense since that contains the Cradle of Civilization.  Egypt is more under Virgo,
which would make sense because of the importance of Isis in their religion - but Virgo is
also the sign of "service" and the Egyptians don't fit that picture too well.....

As for Aquarius, well, the Water Bearer may be the 'carrier' of water, but definitely not a
WATER sign:  Aquarius is an AIR sign, under the Lordship of the Planet Uranus.  Uranus
rules mechanical inventions,  electronics and all things of that nature.  ( I plead ignorance
and rather a bit of fear with anything of that kind.....)

That's the reason why, while some Astrologers say the AGE OF AQUARIUS won't begin for a
couple of centuries, a great many of them believe that it already began with the Industrial
Revolution.  Personally, I believe that it began in 1901 with Guglielmo Marconi's invention of
the RADIO. It sped right along (Uranus rules speed also) and by 1951 just about everyone I
knew had a TV set, my family included. And now we have PCs and all sorts of gadgets for
communication that I am barely aware of....

By that last statement, maybe we could move the grid over ONE and place the Age of Aquarius
right on top of Japan - certainly that nation has led in everything electronic!

That would also let the Constellation of Leo  be right on top of Egypt.
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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2007, 05:05:12 am »

Look at where the Zodiac sign of Sagittarius (I'm a Sag.) falls: Right over the ruins off Cuba's coast and Florida (where I live).  I just thought that was neat.  Smiley  And yes, Aquarius is an air sign.  Cheesy
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mdsungate
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« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2007, 01:42:14 pm »

 Smiley  QUOTE FROM BIANCA: 

Quote
As for Aquarius, well, the Water Bearer may be the 'carrier' of water, but definitely not a
WATER sign:  Aquarius is an AIR sign,


LOL, Cheesy  well since it’s my birth sign, I think I knew that.  But there’s a reason why Aquarius is the “water bearer”.  Water is the first thing you need to build a civilization, and so Aquarius is depicted as a man bringing water to begin to build civilization.  Since the Pacific was the location of Mu, and according to the infamous Madame “B” of Theosophical fame, Mu was where civilization first began.  So Aquarius would be a very appropriate sign for that location and the beginnings of civilization. 

ANOTHER QUOTE FROM BIANCA:

Quote
maybe we could move the grid over ONE and place the Age of Aquarius
right on top of Japan - certainly that nation has led in everything electronic!

 That’s an excellent point to bring up.  The “Orion Theory” has Leo on the eastern horizon rising at dawn 10,500 B.C.  but at what degrees?  If astrologers today are in disagreement as to wether or not the age of Aquarius has begun or won’t begin for another couple of hundred years, then when exactly does the age begin or end for Leo? 

What exactly do they mean as to Leo was rising at dawn in Giza in 10,500 B.C. Are we talking dead center of the sign, the very beginning of the cusp of the sign, or near the end of it?  This makes a big difference as to exactly where the rest of the signs fall on the globe, if there was indeed a world wide correlation between the stars and the earth. 

Does anyone have a better grasp on this point?  I’ll have to re-read what is said in the Orion Theory. 
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« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2007, 02:00:05 pm »





Sungate:

I have been puzzling over that statement: LEO WAS RISING AT GIZA AT DAWN IN  10,500 BC


As far as I know, that would have made it sometime between July 21 and August 21 - 10,500 BC



The rule of thumb is ( for wherever on lives):

6:00 AM    the rising sign on the Eastern Horizon is the sign one is in - e.g. NOW it would be LIBRA

8:00 AM    it would move to SCORPIO

10:00 AM   "     "     "       "   SAGITTARIUS


AND SO ON EVERY TWO HOURS, UNTIL THE NEXT MORNING.



That's approximate because one has to consider Longitude and Latitude and Daylight Saving Time.
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Horus
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« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2007, 04:52:32 pm »

Sungate and Bianca:  The Sphinx faced Leo due east on the horizon on the Spring Equinox.  The 10,500 B.C. date is Bauval's and Hancock's attempt to force a match with the Orion/pyramid idea but it is not original to them and the Age of Leo lasted over 2000 years.

In Ancient Egypt: Light of the World, a massive two volume set on Egyptian mythology first published by Theosophist Gerald Massey in 1907 On p.339, he wrote:

"The great Sphinx as keeper of these secrets was couched in mountainous repose upon the horizon in the eastern equinox, when the gate of ‘fair exit’ was in the lion-sign and the gate of ‘fair entrance’ was in Aquarius, the water-sign that is figured over the abyss of source on the celestial globe. The Sphinx then is a figure of the double horizon and the duality of Har-Makhu when the place of conjunction was at the point of precession in the lion-sign. And if, as is the Egyptian way, the fact was registered forthwith, we may date the Sphinx as a monument which was reared by these great builders and thinkers, who lived so largely out of themselves, some thirteen thousand years ago."

Andrew Collins wrote:

"The Sphinx is quite obviously a lion, the head of which was re-carved in Pharaonic times to represent a king wearing the nemes-headdress. Orientated exactly due east, it gazes out towards the point on the horizon where the sun rises each spring and autumn equinox. Its function is like that of a time-marker, a minute hand on a clock, recording the return of the solar orb as it passes through its 365-day cycle. Yet it also possesses a less obvious, though perhaps more important ‘hour’ hand, and this one marks the minuscule shift in the starry canopy as it turns about its 26,000-year cycle of precession. This visual effect is caused by the extremely slow wobble of the earth, which might be compared with the swaying action of a child’s spinning top if revolving at a snail’s pace.

Built in the Age of Leo

"In astronomical terms the phenomenon known as precession causes the 12 zodiacal constellations to shift backwards in line with the ecliptic, the sun’s path, in a regular sequence. In simple terms, this means that the stars rising alongside the sun make way for another constellation every 2160 or so years until all 12 signs have completed this astronomical merry-go-around. To ‘read’ precession as a long-term time-cycle the ancients noted which sign rose with the sun on the spring equinox, the zero-point of the yearly calendar in many Middle Eastern cultures. If we look today towards the eastern horizon just before sun-rise on 21 March we will see the stars of Pisces. When Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire in 330 BC, the stars of Aries the ram were seen rising with the equinoctial sun, and when the Pyramids of Giza were built in c.2500 BC, it was the stars of Taurus the bull that rose with the sun on the spring equinox.

"If the Great Sphinx was carved as an equinoctial marker at the same time the neighbouring Pyramids were constructed in Pharaonic times, then surely it would make more sense if it was a bull. Making it a lion hints at a connection with the stars of Leo, suggesting that it marked an age when the constellation of Leo rose with the equinoctial sun. The last Age of Leo occurred between 10,970 and 8810 BC, suggesting that the construction date of the Great Sphinx fell somewhere within this time-frame. This is not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination. As far as I am aware, this theory was first put forward by British astro-mythologist Gerald Massey in 1907. In an extraordinary work entitled Ancient Egypt - The Light of the World he boldly concluded that "... we may date the Sphinx as a monument which was reared by these great (Egyptian) builders and thinkers, who lived so largely out of themselves, some thirteen thousand years ago (i.e. in the age of Leo, its astronomical counterpart)."

"More recent astro-mythological evidence presented by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval in their 1996 book Keeper of Genesis, convincingly demonstrates that the Great Sphinx, as well as the ground-plan of the Giza plateau as a whole, must date as early as 10,500 BC, the very time-frame given for the sudden cessation of proto-agriculture along the Nile.

"Since we know that the great stone blocks removed from the sunken enclosure around the leonine monument at the time of its construction were used to build the nearby Sphinx and Valley Temples, then these too must date from the same distant epoch of human history. All this indicates the presence in Egypt around 10,500 BC of an advanced culture adept in agronomy, engineering, building technology, as well as astro-mythology and geomythics that included a profound knowledge of the earth’s 26,000-year precessional cycle."
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Bianca
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« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2007, 07:50:16 pm »






Horus:


This is astronomically and Astrologically wrong:

"In astronomical terms the phenomenon known as precession causes the 12 zodiacal constellations to shift backwards in line with the ecliptic, the sun’s path, in a regular sequence. In simple terms, this means that the stars rising alongside the sun make way for another constellation every 2160 or so years until all 12 signs have completed this astronomical merry-go-around. To ‘read’ precession as a long-term time-cycle the ancients noted which sign rose with the sun on the spring equinox, the zero-point of the yearly calendar in many Middle Eastern cultures. If we look today towards the eastern horizon just before sun-rise on 21 March we will see the stars of Pisces. When Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire in 330 BC, the stars of Aries the ram were seen rising with the equinoctial sun, and when the Pyramids of Giza were built in c.2500 BC, it was the stars of Taurus the bull that rose with the sun on the spring equinox.



The AGE  has nothing to do with the actual SOLAR YEAR that begins on March 21st or thereabouts.

The beginning of the Solar year - 00 deg. of ARIES - does not change, nor ever did.  Regardless of
what Age it is. 


Gerald Massey, furthermore, mentions:

".............'fair entrance' was in Aquarius, the water sign........."

It's obvious that this man did not even know the 'ABCs' of Astrology or he would never have
made such an assertion.  Sungate is an Aquarius and he knows very well that  AQUARIUS
is an AIR sign, even though it is "The Water Bearer".........


Now, Andrew Collins is a lot smarter:

"......exactly due East, it gazes out towards the POINT on the horizon where the sun rises
EACH SPRING........."





I never thought of it too much, but I don't think that the choice of a LION as body of the
Sphinx had anything to do with the Age of Leo. 

Whomever built it or had it built knew very well that it would last longer than 2000 years,
so a lot of thought must have gone into it.

Egypt's ancient religion is centered on the  S U N  and Leo, being the SIGN of the SUN,
is represented by the King of the Jungle. 

And there you have the reason behind the figure of this animal as the body of the Sphinx. 



As for age, I always thought that it was a lot older than they claimed.  I felt the same about
the pyramids.

Robert Schoch (sp? the geologist?) finally provided the proof for me. 
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« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2007, 11:34:33 pm »

Hi Bianca,

I agree that Massey was mistaken on a couple of points (he got his fair entrance and exit reversed) but really the only point of that quote is that someone had already come up with the idea of the Sphinx being 13,000 years old and correlating to Leo as early as 1907.

I don't understand why Collins first paragraph doesn't make any sense to you.  I've seen what he is describing played out on several computer simulations including Graham Hancock's Heaven's Mirror.  Leo would have been perched on the eastern Horizon just before the sun came up in 10,500 B.C. The timing of the vernal equinox only makes for the most perfect alignment between the statue and its "celestial mirror" in that constellation. 

I plan to put the diagrams from Hancock's and Bauval's book Message of the Sphinx (Keeper of Genesis UK) which show this, as well as the Cayce quote which reveals that the Sphinx was actually designed by a mathematician and an astrologer in 10,500 B.C.  in my H.o.R. thread when I have time.

Blessings,
Horus
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« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2007, 11:29:36 am »







Horus, this is why Collins' statement does not make sense to me, since this is the reality,

regardless of what age we are in:



Vernal Equinox (March)



                                                 The Spring Equinox




 The Vernal Equinox is the time when the Sun reaches the balancing point in its path through the zodiac.

It marks the beginning of the new astrological year, as the Sun enters the first degree of Aries, the Ram. It happened in 2007 on March 21.

THIS IS ALWAYS THE SAME, REGARDLESS OF THE AGE.

Collins' explanation of the Precession and the actual Solar Year is very confusing.

The sun will also rise at   00deg. of ARIES in the Spring Equinox when The Age of Aquarius will
be in full swing.



Even so, citing the AGE OF LEO  to date the sphinx is not a logical reason, but just a MERE plus.

After all, we are just ending the Age of Pisces and representations of THE FISH  have not over-
taken representations of the LION, the EAGLE  etc. over the last 2,000 years, not even in
Christian iconography.

To date an object one must have more SCIENTIFIC reasons.
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2007, 04:56:01 pm »

 Cry  Boo hoo!  I''m sooo confused now.  I used to think I understood the procession on the equinoxes.  But now after listening to you two disagree, I'm remembering what I learned when I studied astrology, (granted it was 30 years ago), and Bianca is making me realize that there is some kind of conficting information here. 

Am I right in understanding that the procession of the equinoxes is really because the sun, (and the whole solar system) revolves around the galatic center? 

Then there's that galatic alignment stuff, where according to the Mayans we line up with the galatic center on Dec. 21st, 2012.  What do we line up with?  It's symbolized by a snake biting it's own tail. (the obvious symbology taken from the spiraling shape of the Milky Way Galaxy. 

Horus if you have any pictoral or computer generated imagery, please post it.  I'm a visual learner, LOL.   Roll Eyes


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« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2007, 06:23:14 pm »

From what I understand, the ancients knew about Procession, the earth's wobble was calculated by various different cultures because they noticed these slight changes in motion.  The sky was much clearer for them as well without city lights to hinder their brightness.  You must also keep in mind that although computers are always right, the people programing them may not be, so programs regarding procession may or maynot be correct.  Much of science is based on assumptions & educated guesses.  We are only now starting to relearn what was lost in the Dark Ages.

And yes, MdSungate, there is conflicting information.  There always is.  Smiley   One science says one; one says the other.  I didn't really have time to read the posts in depth and know little about either study.

As far as the Galactic Center, I do believe that is what the Mayans were trying to predict with their calendar.  It may or may not mean the end of the world, as some have suggested.  I'd like to believe it is only the beginning of the true start of the Age of Aquarius  & to expect great change. I'm not sure what we'd be lining up with or what changes we'd face, but a snake biting its tail is symbolic to many cultures. See wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakes_in_mythology

Also like the Holy Shen in the Egyptian religion.   
Quote
A loop of rope that has no beginning and no end, it symbolized eternity. The sun disk is often depicted in the center of it. The shen also seems to be a symbol of protection. It is often seen being clutched by deities in bird form, Horus the falcon, Mut the vulture. Hovering over Pharaohs head with their wings outstretched in a gesture of protection. The word shen comes from the word "shenu" which means "encircle," and in its elongated form became the cartouche which surrounded the king's name.

 So possibly, we will learn of human's true origin.  What we are. If there is any other intelligent life out there.  The world ending.  Who knows?  But it's not that far away so the wait isn't long.

Blessed be,
Lynn
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« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2007, 07:35:25 pm »





Lynn & mike:

I hate to nit-pik, but in this case it's important:

PRO-cession = is usually a bunch of people in a parade (didn't feel like looking it up)
                      like a PROCESSION OF PRIESTS AND ALTAR BOYS DOWN A CHURCH AISLE

PRE-cession  =  what we're discussing here.


*****************************************************************************

From the ASTROLOGY section:




                               P R E C E S S I O N   O F   T H E   E Q U I N O X E S

   


 
Definition: [Astrological Ages] [Modern Astrological Concepts] Precession means literally, "the act of preceding."

In the Precession of the Equinoxes, the Vernal Equinox Point precedes around the Ecliptic. i.e. each year it occurs in a slightly more easterly place on the Ecliptic. As the general motion of the heavenly bodies against the background Constellations, as seen from Earth, is from East to West - the Movement of the Vernal Equinox Point in this fashion is thought of as retrograde [i.e. backwards], and hence a "preceeding" motion.

Why does the Precession of the Earth's Axis Cause the Equinoxes to Precess?

This is not a very easy thing to visualise. One way is to have a picture of the night skies in which all the stars are stuck to a large sphere surrounding the Earth. This, in fact, was how Classical astrologers thought the heavens behaved. It's the concept of the Celestial Sphere. That Sphere has an axis, which is the Earth's axis extended off to touch the stars at the Celestial Poles. Currently the north part of the axis touches the Sphere at Polaris, the Pole Star. However, the Axis is Precessing, and so it slowly moves away from our current Pole Star. As it does so it shifts the axis of the Celestial Sphere.

However, the Ecliptic, the Earth's orbit around the Sun, is completely unaffacted by Precession. So it stays in the same place whilst the axis of the Celestial Sphere moves. This has the effect of moving the points where the Celestial Equator and the Ecliptic meet around the Ecliptic. One of the points where they meet is the Vernal Equinox Point and hence the movement is the Movement of the Vernal Equinox Point.
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« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2007, 07:37:45 pm »








Precession of the Equinoxes.




One things remain the same in this diagram, the yellow circle. which represents the Ecliptic.

The vertical arrow represents the Earth's axis, as it is today pointing up towards the North Celestial Pole, and the Pole Star, Polaris.

 The other arrow represents the Earth's axis as it was thousands of years ago [or thousands of years in the future.] The Earth's axis has precessed to point at another point in the night sky.

[The North Celestial Pole has moved and this Changes the Pole Star.] This changes where the Celestial Equator crosses the Ecliptic and hence moves the Vernal Equinox Point along the Ecliptic.
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« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2007, 07:42:29 pm »








The History of the Idea of Precession





The famous Greek astrologer Hipparchos [c 190 - 120 BC] is thought to have been the first person to realise the Vernal Equinox Point was moving relative to the stars. However Hipparchos did not realise that this was due to the Precession of the Earth itself. At the time all astrologers still firmly believed in the geocentric theory of the Solar System, with a stationary Earth in the centre. They did not realise that much of what we see in the heavens is because the Earth is spinning on its axis, or orbiting around the Sun. Hipparchos followed a Celestial Sphere view of the Solar System, and it would not have occurred to him that the Movement of the Vernal Equinox Point had anything to do with the movement of the Earth itself.

This theory of the solar system held sway for nearly two millennia until it was swept away by Nicolas Copernicus "De revolutionibus" On the Revolutions of Heavenly Spheres. He showed that the Earth orbited the Sun and that the Earth spun on its axis. Copernicus [Book iii, chapters 1 to 12] also hypothesised that the Precession of the Equinoxes was due to a slight forward movement of the Earth in its orbit each calendar year. However, whilst this would account for the Precession of the Equinoxes that we see, Copernicus was unable to assign a first cause to the phenomenon - i.e. why it happened.

It was left to the great mathematician Pierre Laplace to show in Traité de Méchanique Céleste [1799–1825 AD] how the gravity of the Sun acting on the Earth accounted for the Precession of the Earth's Axis and hence the Precession of the Equinoxes.
 

What Consequences does the Precession of the Earth Have? The Precession of the Equinoxes causes the Movement of the Ages. It is the cause of Astrological Ages.
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« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2007, 07:44:15 pm »








The Movement of the Astrological Ages

   


 
Definition:  The change from one Astrological Age to the next as the centuries pass.

Further Information: The Movement of the Ages conjures up a great cosmic dance of the Zodiac Signs around us. It's a nice picture, but in fact it's not like that that at all. Why should the stars dance around you or me or even the Earth in particular? This is just human-centred astrological hubris on our part. In fact the Movement of the Ages refers - as do many things in astrology - to how we see the stars in the heavens from the view point of Earth, and how this view point changes with the centuries. The stars themselves don't change - well certainly not every couple of millennia anyway!

In the astrological truth is stranger than fiction department... the ultimate cause of the Movement of the Ages is... that the Earth is not quite a sphere. This sounds like a very weird cause, but it is very true. Without this there would be no Movement of the Ages at all. [And the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs would stay forever equal to each other.]
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