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the Reason for Good & Evil
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Topic: the Reason for Good & Evil (Read 1895 times)
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Majeston
Hero Member
Posts: 447
Re: the Reason for Good & Evil
«
Reply #30
on:
April 18, 2007, 05:13:15 pm »
Quote
Thanks D. A beautiful read.....
You're very welcome M
I enjoyed posting it. Why is it that you are able to recognize spiritual quality
and others cannot?
Well of course we know that Lucifer was an atheist
and Andrew is also. Maybe there's a clue.
Lucifer was not an ascendant being; he was a created Son of the local universe, and of him it was said: "You were perfect in all your ways from the day you were created till unrighteousness was found in you." Many times had he been in counsel with the Most Highs of Edentia. And Lucifer reigned "upon the holy mountain of God," the administrative mount of Jerusem, for he was the chief executive of a great system of 607 inhabited worlds.
Lucifer was a magnificent being, a brilliant personality; he stood next to the Most High Fathers of the constellations in the direct line of universe authority. Notwithstanding Lucifer's transgression, subordinate intelligences refrained from showing him disrespect and disdain prior to Michael's bestowal on Urantia. Even the archangel of Michael, at the time of Moses' resurrection, "did not bring against him an accusing judgment but simply said, `the Judge rebuke you.'" Judgment in such matters belongs to the Ancients of Days, the rulers of the superuniverse.
Lucifer is now the fallen and deposed Sovereign of Satania. Self-contemplation is most disastrous, even to the exalted personalities of the celestial world. Of Lucifer it was said: "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your brightness." Your olden prophet saw his sad estate when he wrote: "How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>
PAPER 53: Section 3.
The Lucifer Manifesto
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whatever the early origins of trouble in the hearts of Lucifer and Satan, the final outbreak took form as the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The cause of the rebels was stated under three heads:
The reality of the Universal Father. Lucifer charged that the Universal Father did not really exist, that physical gravity and space-energy were inherent in the universe, and that the Father was a myth invented by the Paradise Sons to enable them to maintain the rule of the universes in the Father's name. He denied that personality was a gift of the Universal Father. He even intimated that the finaliters were in collusion with the Paradise Sons to foist fraud upon all creation since they never brought back a very clear-cut idea of the Father's actual personality as it is discernible on Paradise. He traded on reverence as ignorance. The charge was sweeping, terrible, and blasphemous. It was this veiled attack upon the finaliters that no doubt influenced the ascendant citizens then on Jerusem to stand firm and remain steadfast in resistance to all the rebel's proposals.
The universe government of the Creator Son -- Michael. Lucifer contended that the local systems should be autonomous. He protested against the right of Michael, the Creator Son, to assume sovereignty of Nebadon in the name of a hypothetical Paradise Father and require all personalities to acknowledge allegiance to this unseen Father. He asserted that the whole plan of worship was a clever scheme to aggrandize the Paradise Sons. He was willing to acknowledge Michael as his Creator-father but not as his God and rightful ruler.
Most bitterly did he attack the right of the Ancients of Days -- "foreign potentates" -- to interfere in the affairs of the local systems and universes. These rulers he denounced as tyrants and usurpers. He exhorted his followers to believe that none of these rulers could do aught to interfere with the operation of complete home rule if men and angels only had the courage to assert themselves and boldly claim their rights.
He contended that the executioners of the Ancients of Days could be debarred from functioning in the local systems if the native beings would only assert their independence. He maintained that immortality was inherent in the system personalities, that resurrection was natural and automatic, and that all beings would live eternally except for the arbitrary and unjust acts of the executioners of the Ancients of Days.
The attack upon the universal plan of ascendant mortal training. Lucifer maintained that far too much time and energy were expended upon the scheme of so thoroughly training ascending mortals in the principles of universe administration, principles which he alleged were unethical and unsound. He protested against the agelong program for preparing the mortals of space for some unknown destiny and pointed to the presence of the finaliter corps on Jerusem as proof that these mortals had spent ages of preparation for some destiny of pure fiction. With derision he pointed out that the finaliters had encountered a destiny no more glorious than to be returned to humble spheres similar to those of their origin. He intimated that they had been debauched by overmuch discipline and prolonged training, and that they were in reality traitors to their mortal fellows since they were now co-operating with the scheme of enslaving all creation to the fictions of a mythical eternal destiny for ascending mortals. He advocated that ascenders should enjoy the liberty of individual self-determination. He challenged and condemned the entire plan of mortal ascension as sponsored by the Paradise Sons of God and supported by the Infinite Spirit.
And it was with such a Declaration of Liberty that Lucifer launched his **** of darkness and death.
>>>>>>
But this war in heaven was very terrible and very real. While displaying none of the barbarities so characteristic of physical warfare on the immature worlds, this conflict was far more deadly; material life is in jeopardy in material combat, but the war in heaven was fought in terms of life eternal.
http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p053.htm
«
Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 06:57:45 pm by Majeston
»
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"melody has power a whole world to transform."
Forever, music will remain the universal language of men, angels, and spirits.
Harmony is the speech of Havona.
http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper44.html
Andrew Waters
Hero Member
Posts: 175
Re: the Reason for Good & Evil
«
Reply #31
on:
April 18, 2007, 11:02:41 pm »
Majeston said:
''If you do think like that you need some professional help.''
And whom might you recommend? Anyone competent enough to keep me on the couch? Further, when I get done with the professional he won't want to talk to anyone but me thereafter. How's that for professional help.
''You on the other hand have posted the lowest.''
There is no lowest spirituality involved with me. There is none. Your chemical synapses need adjusting. Talk to the dendritic ends first. Straighten them out.
And you ask if I am an atheist? And this means what? Given my views how would that word fit anywhere in my comments.
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Majeston
Hero Member
Posts: 447
Re: the Reason for Good & Evil
«
Reply #32
on:
April 18, 2007, 11:56:04 pm »
Andrew,
you are just babbling nonsense.
Perhaps you should speak with Jake. He is more your speed.
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"melody has power a whole world to transform."
Forever, music will remain the universal language of men, angels, and spirits.
Harmony is the speech of Havona.
http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper44.html
Jake
Hero Member
Posts: 239
Re: the Reason for Good & Evil
«
Reply #33
on:
April 20, 2007, 10:11:04 am »
Thank You for that!
It is an outstanding display of intellicual prowess to group whatever you do not feel to be correct in one lump. That is a second grade mentality. Does that mean that I am "just babbling nonsense" as well?
"There are people destined to not reason, others to reason wrongly, and still others to persecute those that do reason." Voltaire
Granted I do agree with a lot of what Mr. Waters (Andrew) is saying. However, I do not agree with all of what he is saying. I am terribly sorry that I am, also, not a "Yes Man". I do not simply read ideas and follow along like a love sick puppy. To that end, yes I did read your "jesus discourses", and after that I did post my "gut feeling". Is not that what we are supposed to be doing here?
Yes, in my opinion light and dark, black and white, hot and cold, are the same thing. All of which are subject to the perspective from which they are experienced.
I am glad that this type of "pissing contest" is not the norm, on this forum. I am glad that individual opinion is respected for the most part. For it is out of differences, out of chaos , not homogeny, that progress is made.
Respectfully,
Jake
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Majeston
Hero Member
Posts: 447
Re: the Reason for Good & Evil
«
Reply #34
on:
April 20, 2007, 03:24:27 pm »
Quote
Yes, in my opinion light and dark, black and white, hot and cold, are the same thing. All of which are subject to the perspective from which they are experienced.
I am glad that this type of "pissing contest" is not the norm, on this forum. I am glad that individual opinion is respected for the most part. For it is out of differences, out of chaos , not homogeny, that progress is made.
Respectfully,
Jake
Jake,
simply because all of these things depend on perspective does not make them equal or non-existent
This is not a pissing contest Jake. Respect comes from valued contributions. Simply because we all can have a
viewpoint does not necessarily demand respect. I can respect your right
to have
a viewpoint but I can also
NOT respect your viewpoint.
re·spect (r-spkt)
tr.v. re·spect·ed, re·spect·ing, re·spects
1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.
3. To relate or refer to; concern.
n.
1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. See Synonyms at regard.
2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.
3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.
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"melody has power a whole world to transform."
Forever, music will remain the universal language of men, angels, and spirits.
Harmony is the speech of Havona.
http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper44.html
Andrew Waters
Hero Member
Posts: 175
Re: the Reason for Good & Evil
«
Reply #35
on:
April 20, 2007, 07:17:15 pm »
Majeston said:
''Jake,
simply because all of these things depend on perspective does not make them equal or non-existent.''
If it is perspective and I believe this to be true, then your ''does not make them equal'' can't hold up. Then you acknowledge the existence but disparage it. How can those two, equal and non-existent, be reconciled in this context? Expressed another way, your ''does not make them equal,'' is perspective. Then they are non-existent because you give them no respect?
It may interest you to know I have no issue with your spirituality nor anyone else's for that matter. This is something for you to explain, when asked and if interested, what it means to you. That is your perspective, not mine.
Since I'm not spiritual and you are then it is understood why you get irritated because I have no spirituality to explain. You think you do but that is your perspective. That is valid—from your position. That said, my position can't be non-existent because you say it is, and this includes all the great minds you referred to previously. Simply stated that is their perspective also.
«
Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 07:20:14 pm by Andrew Waters
»
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HereForNow
Superhero Member
Posts: 3279
HUH?
Re: the Reason for Good & Evil
«
Reply #36
on:
May 16, 2007, 02:53:19 pm »
LOL I don't mean to rock the boat here, yet I see something slightly disturbing.
We have alot of great thinkers here and even a few great doers.
Suddenly, a disagreement is created based on opinion and wahlah.
Our individual Good and evils are revealed.
I'm not smart enough to discuss anything here on this one because I'm more concerned about what I'm not doing right and/or wrong.
Cheers!
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HereForNow
Superhero Member
Posts: 3279
HUH?
Re: the Reason for Good & Evil
«
Reply #37
on:
May 16, 2007, 02:54:46 pm »
P.S. All men were created equally.
Perhaps keeping this in mind will help you all resolve this.
As for good and Evil, the 2 in my own opinion are not equal. They are choices that are made when we reach a point of making a right or wrong decision.
If they were equal but opposite, the world be a very different place.
Everyone would end up with about the same things out life.
That doesn't happen in this physical version of a thousand realities.
«
Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 03:01:22 pm by HereForNow
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HereForNow
Superhero Member
Posts: 3279
HUH?
Re: the Reason for Good & Evil
«
Reply #38
on:
August 27, 2007, 08:32:30 pm »
One other reason for good and evil is to help prune the tree of life.
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