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Timaeus on Atlantis in Eight Parallel Editions

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atalante
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« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2007, 01:42:03 pm »

Cicero,

Nearly all the controversial passages in Plato's Atlantis story involve situations where Plato used nebulous wording in the original Greek.  Even the ancient Greeks were able to read different things into some of the passages.  Nikas's recent post demonstrates that "tearing your hair out" is a normal part of trying to translate the controversial Atlantis passages.

Diodorus, and the Greek historians whom he summarized, saw something important in 24e which is distorted in nearly all modern translations.

Here is my footnoted translation.
2nd part of 24e

But as soon as (*12) the isolated land             hê de nêsos [fem nom sg]  hama
was (a business-client) of Libya (*13),            Libuês [fem gen sg]   ên [imperf ind act 3rd sing]
then (*12) the senior (affair) of Asia occurred.  kai  Asias [fem gen sg]   meizôn [fem nom     
                                                                                                           comparative sg]




footnote *12  This is a "hama...kai" construction in Greek, and therefore the sentence involves two clauses -- (describing two events which occur close together).   Diodorus Siculus, and the historians he summarized, understood this sentence to mean that the Amazons of Libya (i.e. Lake Tritonis) conquered the Atlantes tribes, who lived west of the Amazons, shortly before the Amazons invaded Asia Minor and the Levant (eastern) part of the Mediterranean. 

quote from Perseus-Tufts lexicon entry for "hama" (and more specifically for a "hama...kai" construction):

3. in Prose ha. de . . kai . . , ha. te . . kai . . , ha. . . kai . . may often be translated by no sooner . . than . . , ha. de tauta elege kai apedeiknue Hdt.1.112 ; tauga te hama êgoreue kai pempei 8.5 ; ha. akêkoamen te kai triêrarchous kathistamen D.4.36 ; ha. diallattontai kai tês echthras epilanthanontai Isoc.4.157 .





footnote *13  The verb "to be"  (ên / einai) can take on subtle shifts of meaning when it is used with Genitive case, which occurs in this passage. 

quote from:  http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%2331131

 C. einai is frequently modified in sense by the addition of Advbs., or the cases of Nouns without or with Preps.:

II. c. gen., to express descent or extraction, patros d' eim' agathoio Il.21.109 ; haimatos eis agathoio Od. 4.611 , cf. Hdt.3.71, Th.2.71, etc.; poleôs megistês ei X.An.7.3.19 .

b. to express the material of which a thing is made, hê krêpis esti lithôn megalôn consists of . . , Hdt.1.93; tês polios eousês duo pharseôn ib.186; toioutôn ergôn esti hê turannis is made up of . . , Id.5.92.ê, etc.
c. to express the class to which a person or thing belongs, ei gar tôn philôn you are one of them, Ar.Pl.345; etunchane boulês ôn Th.3.70 ; hosoi êsan tôn proterôn stratiôtôn Id.7.44 ; Kritias tôn triakonta ôn X.Mem.1.2.31 ; esti tôn aischrôn it is in the class of disgraceful things, i. e. it is disgraceful, D.2.2.
d. to express that a thing belongs to another, Troian Achaiôn ousan A.Ag. 269 ; to pedion ên men kote Chorasmiôn Hdt.3.117 , etc.: hence, to be of the party of, êsan . . tines men philippou, tines de tou beltistou D.9.56 , cf. 37.53; to be de pendent upon, S.Ant.737, etc.; to be at the mercy of, esti tou legontos, ên phobous legêi Id.OT917 .
e. to express one's duty, business, custom, nature, and the like , outoi gunaikos esti 'tis not a woman's part, A.Ag.940; to epitiman pantos einai D.1.16 ; to de nautikon technês estin is matter of art, requires art, Th.1.142, cf.83.
f. in LXX, to be occupied about, êsan tou thuein 2 Ch.30.17 ; esesthai, c. gen., to be about to, esometha tou sôsai se 2 Ki.10.11 .
endquote
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