Atlantis and music

[Hermocrates]

The reason why the mighty Atlantis WILL be defeated by the "tiny" Athenian army.

It's all about harmony and music; the right kind of music. As we all should know, the Athenian army battling Atlantis was the mirror image of Socrates' Republic. The Guardians/Military were especially brought up and trained very strictly. Certain things were carefully screened, so as to not have a degrading and weakening  effect on the fighting men/women. One of those core items being screened was Music, yes, music. Only what was retained as good and harmonious was to be allowed.  Music was a mighty weapon, when the guardians of the republic listened to the right music. Atlantis was not in tune anymore with their forefathers' music and laws, and that made them weaklings. Sort of like today's Rap "music" (noises really, and not harmonious), which has such a degrading effect on the minds of our youth, and it instigates violence, vulgarity, disrespect for their elders, and within themselves. Spawning more deplorable and destructive behavior in those that listen to such "jive talking." It's not music, it's just an irritating sound driving one to "madness"  and "self-destruction." Not to mention the tearing apart of the constitution of the founding Father(s), which will be discussed later.

For good nurture and education implant good constitutions, and these good constitutions taking root in a good education improve more and more, and this improvement affects the breed in man as in other animals.

Then to sum up: This is the point to which, above all, the attention of our rulers should be directed, --that music and gymnastic be preserved in their original form, and no innovation made. They must do their utmost to maintain them intact. And when any one says that mankind most regard the newest song which the singers have, they will be afraid that he may be praising, not new songs, but a new kind of song; and this ought not to be praised, or conceived to be the meaning of the poet; for any musical innovation is full of danger to the whole State, and ought to be prohibited. So Damon tells me, and I can quite believe him;-he says that when modes of music change, of the State always change with them.
Yes, said Adeimantus; and you may add my suffrage to Damon's and your own.

Then, I said, our guardians must lay the foundations of their fortress in music?

Yes, he said; the lawlessness of which you speak too easily steals in.

Yes, I replied, in the form of amusement; and at first sight it appears harmless.

Why, yes, he said, and there is no harm; were it not that little by little this spirit of license, finding a home, imperceptibly penetrates into manners and customs; whence, issuing with greater force, it invades contracts between man and man, and from contracts goes on to laws and constitutions, in utter recklessness, ending at last, Socrates, by an overthrow of all rights, private as well as public.

Is that true? I said.
That is my belief, he replied.

Then, as I was saying, our youth should be trained from the first in a stricter system, for if amusements become lawless, and the youths themselves become lawless, they can never grow up into well-conducted and virtuous citizens.

Very true, he said.

And when they have made a good beginning in play, and by the help of music have gained the habit of good order, then this habit of order, in a manner how unlike the lawless play of the others! will accompany them in all their actions and be a principle of growth to them, and if there be any fallen places a principle in the State will raise them up again. And so will Atlantis be rising from the depths of corruption.
Then, I said, our guardians must lay the foundations of their fortress in music?
Yes, he said; the lawlessness of which you speak too easily steals in.

And that is why it is important to listen to real music. Listen to the music!



I aim to defend my Caribbean Queen, and no more love on the run for my Queen, as Atlantis is Caribbean, too, as Cayce hinted. I will not have anyone else drag her all over the world and in time.


I have news for everyone; everything is fixed and you cannot change it from Plato's point of view! Flog me all you want, I know the truth. And even if you crucify me. I will still resurrect Atlantis from the depth of everyone's imaginative windmill of their minds, and those circles that they search for.



I have come back today to reach the whole nation of Atlanteans that are reincarnating in the USA, today, as Cayce told us.



I did not start it, a God started Atlantis, and it was also the "God" of God's that proclaimed sentence on Atlantis. Only it was a "suspended" sentence. But I'm dying to tell everyone what it will be, if nothing as changed.

For many generations, as long as the divine nature lasted in them, they were obedient to the laws, and well-affectioned towards the god, whose seed they were; for they possessed true and in every way great spirits, uniting gentleness with wisdom in the various chances of life, and in their intercourse with one another. They despised everything but virtue, caring little for their present state of life, and thinking lightly of the possession of gold and other property, which seemed only a burden to them; neither were they intoxicated by luxury; nor did wealth deprive them of their self-control; but they were sober, and saw clearly that all these goods are increased by virtue and friendship with one another, whereas by too great regard and respect for them, they are lost and friendship with them. By such reflections and by the continuance in them of a divine nature, the qualities which we have described grew and increased among them; but when the divine portion began to fade away, and became diluted too often and too much with the mortal admixture, and the human nature got the upper hand, they then, being unable to bear their fortune, behaved unseemly, and to him who had an eye to see grew visibly debased, for they were losing the fairest of their precious gifts; but to those who had no eye to see the true happiness, they appeared glorious and blessed at the very time when they were full of avarice and unrighteous power. Zeus, the god of gods, who rules according to law, and is able to see into such things, perceiving that an honorable race was in a woeful plight, and wanting to inflict punishment on them, that they might be chastened and improve, collected all the gods into their most holy habitation, which, being placed in the center of the world, beholds all created things. And when he had called them together, he spake as follows...............................................

[Hermocrates]

Although Bianca appears to not be haunting this site anymore, still, while I posted on another older post, dealing with reincarnation and dreams of having been an Atlantean citizen in a past life, and where she had posted of her having strong feelings, based on some unexplainable psychological phobias about modern technology, that she too may have been a past citizen of Atlantis, I looked up some of her other posts. It was then that, within a citing she had posted, I ran across the following:

"Music

Ernest McClain (1978) has described the tonal basis of early myth. McClain argues that the connections between music and myth are even deeper than astronomy and myth. The invariances at the basis of tones could very well have served as the ideal for the development of the earliest astronomy. The tonal invariances of music may have suggested the search of similar invariances in the heavenly phenomena."

The above was contained in her post of: HINDUISM: Science in Ancient India Age
« on: June 20, 2007, 05:56:56 pm »

But I doubt that Bianca really understood what she was posting, as she was/is a firm believer that Atlantis is not a myth made up by Plato. What I mean is that if one looks up Mr. Ernest G. McClain, they will notice that he also wrote a book called; "The Pythagorean Plato." In this book, Mr. McClain specifically and categorically denies an actual and real Atlantis of any kind. Stating something of the kind:  In the unfinished Plato's dialogue, the Critias, Plato gave us two political fairy tales, Prehistoric Athens, and Atlantis. And according to McClain these two fairy tales are the keys to understanding that it is just a matter of Pythagorean poetical imagination.

Well, if one want's to see what, in my opinion, is to totally waste one's lifetime in research on understanding Plato, but making some money on the side, then you should get a glimpse at the theory that Ernest has on, not only Plato's Atlantis, but on Plato's entire works. What musical aspiration! What tunes and melodies this man is able to extract from Plato. Why he makes Mozart, Verdi, Puccini, Vivaldi, Beethoven, and all other classical musical geniuses mere "bunnies tapping drums."  Talk about twisting, bending, and stretching Plato's Atlantis; this one has to take the cake, even though it is not a physical Atlantis. Get a load of the sketches and figures he uses in laying out Atlantis, and his interpretation of the characters, names, and places in the tale of Atlantis.

If anyone goes to here; http://www.scribd.com/doc/72719753/Pythagorean-Plato-McClain  and has the courage and self-confidence of attempting to understanding such "musical" nonsense, then they will never dare to laugh at any other proposition, speculation, or even "scholarly" presentations on a theory about Atlantis.

[Rennes-le-Château]

But I doubt that Bianca really understood what she was posting, as she was/is a firm believer that Atlantis is not a myth made up by Plato.

And I will still take her postings over yours any day of the week, you being basically a putz that came here to spread his doctrine that Atlantis never existed and that Plato was basically sharing the visions of John the Revelator. 

[Fran]

Wouldn't it be something if the Atlanteans liked polkas?  Or country music?  That would show those liberals!

[Roy McGiness]

So long as those Atlanteans didn't like rap, I'm fine with them. I don't like that rap stuff. Not even real music.

[Autolocus]

Hermocrates, in reading your post, I feel like someone has laid a flaming pile of dog crap on our doorstep, then fled. What is the point of your presence here?

[Pablo]

The reason why the mighty Atlantis WILL be defeated by the "tiny" Athenian army.

It's all about harmony and music; the right kind of music. As we all should know, the Athenian army battling Atlantis was the mirror image of Socrates' Republic. The Guardians/Military were especially brought up and trained very strictly. Certain things were carefully screened, so as to not have a degrading and weakening  effect on the fighting men/women. One of those core items being screened was Music, yes, music. Only what was retained as good and harmonious was to be allowed.  Music was a mighty weapon, when the guardians of the republic listened to the right music. Atlantis was not in tune anymore with their forefathers' music and laws, and that made them weaklings. Sort of like today's Rap "music" (noises really, and not harmonious), which has such a degrading effect on the minds of our youth, and it instigates violence, vulgarity, disrespect for their elders, and within themselves. Spawning more deplorable and destructive behavior in those that listen to such "jive talking." It's not music, it's just an irritating sound driving one to "madness"  and "self-destruction." Not to mention the tearing apart of the constitution of the founding Father(s), which will be discussed later.

My friend, this work recalls much the great Atlantean work of the great Georgeos Diaz Montexano, please credit him with this accomplishment.

[Pablo]

Be not an intellectual vampire, my friend and involve yourself in this thievery. Give the Georgeos his credits.

[Flenorl]

Words cannot express my disgust at this.