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Finding Atlantis, Manna from the Divine Socrates

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Hermocrates
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« on: October 15, 2015, 01:45:55 pm »

Do you know how you can speak or act about rhetoric in a manner which will be acceptable to God?

No, indeed, none of us can, except a few!

Do I?

I have heard a tradition of the ancients, whether true or not they only know; although if we had found the truth ourselves, do you think that we should care much about the opinions of others?

My question needs no answer; but I wish that you would hear me tell what I say of that which I have heard.

At the Egyptian city of Naucratis, there was a famous old god, whose name was Theuth; the bird which is called the Ibis is sacred to him, and he was the inventor of many arts, such as arithmetic and calculation and geometry and astronomy and draughts and dice, but his great discovery was the use of letters. Now in those days the god Thamus was the king of the whole country of Egypt; and he dwelt in that great city of Upper Egypt which the Hellenes call Egyptian Thebes, and the god himself is called by them Ammon. To him came Theuth and showed his inventions, desiring that the other Egyptians might be allowed to have the benefit of them; he enumerated them, and Thamus enquired about their several uses, and praised some of them and censured others, as he approved or disapproved of them. It would take a long time to repeat all that Thamus said to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts. But when they came to letters, This, said Theuth, will make the Egyptians wiser and give them better memories; it is a specific both for the memory and for the wit. Thamus replied: O most ingenious Theuth, the parent or inventor of an art is not always the best judge of the utility or inutility of his own inventions to the users of them. And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality.

Yes, I can easily invent tales of Egypt, or of any other country, and this is your rebuttal in accusing me of having ventured so far as to corroborate, and further still, reveal the association of prophecy, and Revelation with Atlantis. 

However, There was a tradition in the temple of Dodona that oaks first gave prophetic utterances. The men of old, unlike in their simplicity to young philosophy, deemed that if they heard the truth even from 'oak or rock,' it was enough for them; whereas you seem to consider not whether a thing is or is not true, but who the speaker is and from what country the tale comes.

Therefore, all of you should acknowledge the justice of your rebuke; and admit that the Theban is right in his view about letters.

He would be a very simple person, and quite a stranger to the oracles of Thamus or Ammon, who should leave in writing or receive in writing any art under the idea that the written word would be intelligible or certain; or who deemed that writing was at all better than knowledge and recollection of the same matters?

That is most true, as far as I'm concerned! What say you?

But I cannot help feeling that writing is unfortunately like painting; for the creations of the painter have the attitude of life, and yet if you ask them a question they preserve a solemn silence. And the same may be said of the written word, whether in dialogues, essays, or books. You would imagine that they had intelligence, but if you want to know anything and put a question to one of them, the speaker always gives one unvarying answer. And when they have been once written down they are tumbled about anywhere among those who may or may not understand them, and know not to whom they should reply, to whom not: and, if they are maltreated or abused, they have no parent to protect them; and they cannot protect or defend themselves.

Would you all agree with me so far? Those that have made mountains of molehills, especially?

Is there not another kind of word or speech far better than this, and having far greater power—a son of the same family, but lawfully begotten?

Whom do I mean, and what is his origin? Well that specific son I will not reveal just yet, but much further down the road to Atlantis!

But I will give you this much, at this time. Do I mean an intelligent word graven in the soul of the learner, which can defend itself, and knows when to speak and when to be silent?

Yes, and further, do I mean the living word of knowledge which has a soul, and of which the written word is properly no more than an image?

Yes, of course that is what I mean. And now may I be allowed to ask you a question: Would a husbandman, who is a man of sense, take the seeds, which he values and which he wishes to bear fruit, and in sober seriousness plant them during the heat of summer, in some garden of Adonis, that he may rejoice when he sees them in eight days appearing in beauty? at least he would do so, if at all, only for the sake of amusement and pastime. But when he is in earnest he sows in fitting soil, and practices husbandry, and is satisfied if in eight months the seeds which he has sown arrive at perfection?

Of course it would be, yes, the answer, if anyone of sense were by chance listening to me, instead of some bird-brains!

And can we suppose that he who knows the just and good and honorable has less understanding, than the husbandman, about his own seeds?

Certainly not. This being the answer of the initiated in higher philosophy.

Then he will not seriously incline to 'write' his thoughts 'in water' with pen and ink, sowing words which can neither speak for themselves nor teach the truth adequately to others?

No, that is not likely, my dear scientific community.

No, that is not likely—in the garden of letters he will sow and plant, but only for the sake of recreation and amusement; he will write them down as memorials to be treasured against the forgetfulness of old age, by himself, or by any other old man who is treading the same path. He will rejoice in beholding their tender growth; and while others are refreshing their souls with banqueting and the like, this will be the pastime in which his days are spent. Do you all understand so far?

A pastime as noble as the other is ignoble, the pastime of a man who can be amused by serious talk, and can discourse merrily about justice and the like. That other nowhere will it lead, but to a dead-end. No price; and coming close only counts at horseshoes throwing, and making out with "girls," or "boys," if that is your preference." 

Would wise men and women corroborate this?

True, I cast my vote, too. But nobler far is the serious pursuit of the dialectician, who, finding a congenial soul, by the help of "science" sows and plants therein words which are able to help themselves and him who planted them, and are not unfruitful, but have in them a seed which others brought up in different soils render immortal, making the possessors of it happy to the utmost extent of human happiness.  Are you listening with long ears?

But he who thinks that in the written word there is necessarily much which is not serious, and that neither poetry nor prose, spoken or written, is of any great value, if, like the compositions of the rhapsodes, they are only recited in order to be believed, and not with any view to criticism or instruction; and who thinks that even the best of writings are but a reminiscence of what we know, and that only in principles of justice and goodness and nobility taught and communicated orally for the sake of instruction and graven in the soul, which is the true way of writing, is there clearness and perfection and seriousness, and that such principles are a man's own and his legitimate offspring;—being, in the first place, the word which he finds in his own bosom; secondly, the brethren and descendants and relations of his idea which have been duly implanted by him in the souls of others;—and who cares for them and no others—this is the right sort of person; and you and I would pray that we may become like that person.

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parta
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2015, 06:26:56 am »

i would edit out the parts where you bear your desperation. and messianic appeals in 2015? really? you would have to do a really amazing miracle on live tv on the steps of st peters in front of the pope and obama.

the thing is that real structures are there so people will continue digging at them. no words can stop curious humans [unless the word is minefield and that only stops them for a few hours]. answers get simpler as you go back in time. not more complex.
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