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Atlantis, the sacred writing abused by man. Part 2

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Hermocrates
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2015, 07:23:22 pm »

Are our rhetoricians tormented by a new tribe of Furies when they cry: 'These scars I earned in the struggle for popular rights; I sacrificed this eye for you: where is a guiding hand to lead me to my children? My knees are hamstrung, and cannot support my body'? Though indeed even these speeches might be endured if they smoothed the path of aspirants to oratory. But as it is, the sole result of this bombastic matter and these loud empty phrases is that a pupil who steps into a court thinks that he has been carried into another world. I believe that college makes complete fools of our young men, because they see and hear nothing of ordinary life there. It is pirates standing in chains on the beach, tyrants pen in hand ordering sons to cut off their fathers' heads, oracles in time of pestilence demanding the blood of three virgins or more, honey-balls of phrases, every word and act besprinkled with poppy-seed and sesame.

People who are fed on this diet can no more be sensible than people who live in the kitchen can be savory. With your permission I must tell you the truth, that you teachers more than anyone have been the ruin of true eloquence. Your tripping, empty tones stimulate certain absurd effects into being, with the result that the substance of your speech languishes and dies. In the age: when Sophocles or Euripides found the inevitable word for their verse, young men were not yet being confined to set speeches. When Pindar and the nine lyric poets were too modest to use Homer's lines, no cloistered pedant had yet ruined young men's brains. I need not go to the poets for evidence. I certainly do not find that Plato or Demosthenes took any course of training of this kind. Great style, which, if I may say so, is also modest style, is never blotchy and bloated. It rises supreme by virtue of its natural beauty. Your flatulent and formless flow of words is a modern immigrant from Asia to Athens. Its breath fell upon the mind of ambitious youth like the influence of a baleful planet, and when the old tradition was once broken, eloquence halted and grew dumb. In a word, who after this came to equal the splendor of Thucydides or Hyperides? Even poetry did not glow with the color of health, but the whole of art, nourished on one universal diet, lacked the vigor to reach the grey hairs of old age. The decadence in painting was the same, as soon as Egyptian charlatans had found a short cut to this high calling."

Agamemnon would not allow me to stand declaiming out in the colonnade longer than he had spent sweating inside the school. “Your talk has an uncommon flavor, young man,” he said, "and what is most unusual, you appreciate good sense. I will not therefore deceive you by making a mystery of my art. The fact is that the teachers are not to blame for these exhibitions. They are in a madhouse, and they must gibber. Unless they speak to the taste of their young masters they will be left alone in the colleges, as Cicero remarks. Like the toadies [of Comedy] cadging after the rich man's dinners, they think first about what is calculated to please their audience. They will never gain their object unless they lay traps for the ear. A master of oratory is like a fisherman; he must put the particular bait on his hook which he knows will tempt the little fish, or he may sit waiting on his rock with no hope of a catch.

Then what is to be done? It is the parents who should be attacked for refusing to allow their children to profit by stern discipline. To begin with they consecrate even their young hopefuls, like everything else, to ambition. Then if they are in; a hurry for the fulfillment of their vows, they drive the unripe schoolboy into the law courts, and thrust eloquence, the noblest of callings, upon children who are still struggling into the world. If they would allow work to go on step by step, so that bookish boys were steeped in diligent reading, their minds formed by wise sayings, their pens relentless in tracking down the right word, their ears giving a long hearing to pieces they wished to imitate, and if they would convince themselves that what took a boy's fancy was never fine; then the grand old style of oratory would have its full force and splendor. As it is, the boy wastes his time at school, and the young man is a laughing-stock in the courts. Worse than that, they will not admit when they are old the errors they have once imbibed at school. But pray do not think that I impugn Lucilius's rhyme about modesty. I will myself put my own views in a poem:

If any man seeks for success in stern art and applies his mind to great tasks, let him first perfect his character by the rigid law of frugality. Nor must he care for the lofty frown of the tyrant's palace, or scheme for suppers with prodigals like a client, or drown the fires of his wit with wine in the company of the wicked, or sit before the stage applauding an actor's grimaces for a price.

“But whether the fortress of armored Tritonis smiles upon him, or the land where the Spartan farmer lives, or the home of the Sirens, let him give the years of youth to poetry, and let his fortunate soul drink of the Maeonian fount. Later, when he is full of the learning of the Socratic school, let him loose the reins, and shake the weapons of mighty Demosthenes like a free man. Then let the company of Roman writers pour about him, and, newly unburdened from the music of Greece, steep his soul and transform his taste. Meanwhile, let him withdraw from the courts and suffer his pages to run free, and in secret make ringing strains in swift rhythm; then let him proudly tell tales of feasts, and wars recorded in fierce chant, and lofty words such as undaunted Cicero uttered. Gird up thy soul for these noble ends; so shalt thou be fully inspired, and shalt pour out words in swelling torrent from a heart the Muses love.”
I was listening to him so carefully that I did not notice Ascyltos slipping away. I was pacing the gardens in the heat of our conversation, when a great crowd of students came out into the porch, apparently from some master whose extemporary harangue had followed Agamemnon's discourse. So while the young men were laughing at his epigrams, and denouncing the tendency of his style as a whole, I took occasion to steal away and began hurriedly to look for Ascyltos. But I did not remember the road accurately, and I did not know where our lodgings were. So wherever I went, I kept coming back to the same spot, till I was tired out with walking, and dripping with sweat.
At last I went up to an old woman who was selling country vegetables and said,“Please, mother, do you happen to know where I live?” She was charmed with such a polite fool.“Of course I do,” she said, and got up and began to lead the way. I thought her a prophetess . . . ., and when we had got into an obscure quarter the obliging old lady pushed back a patchwork curtain and said,“This should be your house.” I was saying that I did not remember it, when I noticed some men and naked women walking cautiously about among placards of price. Too late, too late I realized that I had been taken into a bawdy-house. I cursed the cunning old woman, and covered my head, and began to run through the brothel to another part, when just at the entrance Ascyltos met me, as tired as I was, and half-dead. It looked as though the same old lady had brought him there. I hailed him with a laugh, and asked him what he was doing in such an unpleasant spot.

He mopped himself with his hands and said, “If you only knew what has happened to me.” “What is it?” I said. “Well,” he said, on the point of fainting, “I was wandering all over the town without finding where I had left my lodgings, when a respectable person came up to me and very kindly offered to direct me. He took me round a number of dark turnings and brought me out here, and then began to offer me money and solicit me. A woman got threepence out of me for a room, and he had already seized me. The worst would have happened if I had not been stronger than he.” . . .

Every one in the place seemed to be drunk on aphrodisiacs . . . but our united forces defied our assailant. . . .

I dimly saw Giton standing on the curb of the road in the dark, and hurried towards him. . . . I was asking my brother whether he had got ready anything for us to eat, when the boy sat down at the head of the bed, and began to cry and rub away the tears with his thumb. My brother's looks made me uneasy, and I asked what had happened. The boy was unwilling to tell, but I added threats to entreaties, and at last he said, “That brother or friend of yours ran into our lodgings a little while ago and began to offer me violence. I shouted out, and he drew his sword and said, 'If you are a Lucretia, you have found your Tarquin.'”

When I heard this I shook my fist in Ascyltos's face. “What have you to say?” I cried, “You dirty fellow whose very breath is unclean?” Ascyltos first pretended to be shocked, and then made a great show of fight, and roared out much more loudly: “Hold your tongue, you filthy prizefighter. You were kicked out of the ring in disgrace. Be quiet, Jack Stab-inthe-dark. You never could face a clean woman in your best days. I was the same kind of brother to you in the garden, as this boy is now in the lodgings.”

“You sneaked away from the master's talk,” I said.“Well, you fool, what do you expect? I was perishing of hunger. Was I to go on listening to his views, all broken bottles and interpretation of dreams? By God, you are far worse than I am, flattering a poet to get asked out to dinner.”

Then our sordid quarreling ended in a shout of laughter, and we retired afterwards more peaceably for what remained to be done. . . .
But his insult came into my head again. “Ascyltos,” I said, “I am sure we cannot agree. We will divide our luggage, and try to defeat our poverty by our own earnings. You are a scholar, and so am I. Besides, I will promise not to stand in the way of your success. Otherwise twenty things a day will bring us into opposition, and spread scandal about us all over the town.” Ascyltos acquiesced, and said, “But as we are engaged to supper to-night like a couple of students, do not let us waste the evening. I shall be pleased to look out for new lodgings and a new brother to-morrow?” “Waiting for one's pleasures is weary work,” I replied. . . .

I went sight-seeing all over the town and then came back to the little room. At last I could ask for kisses openly. I hugged the boy close in my arms and had my fill of a happiness that might be envied. All was not over when Ascyltos came sneaking up to the door, shook back the bars by force, and found me at play with my brother. He filled the room with laughter and applause, pulled me out of the cloak I had over me, and said, “What are you at, my pureminded brother, you that would break up our partnership?” Not content with gibing, he pulled the strap off his bag, and began to give me a regular flogging, saying sarcastically as he did so: “Don't make this kind of bargain with your brother.” . . .


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parta
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2015, 07:32:31 pm »

i think its not hermaphrocrates its homocrates.

an isolated fact, separated from all those to which it is related, may seem strange, bizarre, incredible. Just as a fragment of a child’s puzzle, lifted from the table, unrelated to any surroundings, shows curious outline, unintelligible form, but dropped into its proper place in the puzzle completes the whole, which is seen to be natural and significant, so the great happenings in the history of the world, looked at divorced from all else, seem unintelligible, impossible; but when they come in a regular sequence, when they are recognized as part of a perfect whole, then that which was strange becomes natural; that which was incredible becomes believable; and we realize that, however strange it may have appeared, torn away from its place in history, there is nothing in it incredible or even strange when we see it in its rightful place



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Hermocrates
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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2015, 09:42:06 am »

i think its not hermaphrocrates its homocrates.

an isolated fact, separated from all those to which it is related, may seem strange, bizarre, incredible. Just as a fragment of a child’s puzzle, lifted from the table, unrelated to any surroundings, shows curious outline, unintelligible form, but dropped into its proper place in the puzzle completes the whole, which is seen to be natural and significant, so the great happenings in the history of the world, looked at divorced from all else, seem unintelligible, impossible; but when they come in a regular sequence, when they are recognized as part of a perfect whole, then that which was strange becomes natural; that which was incredible becomes believable; and we realize that, however strange it may have appeared, torn away from its place in history, there is nothing in it incredible or even strange when we see it in its rightful place





We all need to come out of our "closets." So why don't you, Parta, come out of yours? The great deceiver, Rennes, bubble-gum blowing youth. Pindar, was one of the kind you are despising, and Agathon, too, so was Homer, and Hesiod, and most of them too. Even Socrates, and Plato, not then as them, but at other times. And so are you. We were all feminine at one time or another. What do you make of your (nipples) ****, if you are really a man, that is? What are those (nipples) **** on the bulls, and the dogs, and pigs too? The soul has no sex, as I told you before, you dumb dumb! You know nothing of Plato. You must broaden your buns, if you want inside knowledge. Reincarnation is your downfall, as you are just a snail now, and you screw yourself, as usual.

But I glad that you too are searching and quoting; at least I'm making some progress with your ignorance, and my efforts are wasted not, totally. See! Pindar was right, Hope is last to die!


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parta
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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2015, 09:55:44 am »

i know all my tales, i know every artifact, i know every monument. i know geology and history. i know archeology and diplomacy. you have built a leaning skeleton of cards in order to place yourself close enough to hear god so you say. unfortunately some of the cards in the bottom rank are reality based which for you was bad ground to build on.

you go on doing your work. i will do nothing but read what science has to say about what it finds in atlantis/kikkar/yimkard.

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Hermocrates
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2015, 10:41:19 am »

i know all my tales, i know every artifact, i know every monument. i know geology and history. i know archeology and diplomacy. you have built a leaning skeleton of cards in order to place yourself close enough to hear god so you say. unfortunately some of the cards in the bottom rank are reality based which for you was bad ground to build on.

you go on doing your work. i will do nothing but read what science has to say about what it finds in atlantis/kikkar/yimkard.



Well, if that is your intention, then why don't you, like a good girl, go and study those things, and stop bothering me by intruding, with your rudeness and ignorance of Plato. See? you who search Atlantis through science are not even, vaguely, aware that both Socrates and Plato did not put much faith in natural philosophy, (natural science) and that kind of philosophy was nothing in comparison with true philosophy; the soul and God.

So let us depart, you to science and me to higher philosophy; God only knows who is better off! So as usual, since I owe you 100 songs, as you requested, here is another small installment of payment, always in three, like the number of heads you share.

Have you ever heard?
Some people say a man is made out of mud
Well, a poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bone and a mind
That's weak but a back that's strong

And he was born one morning when the sun didn't shine
He picked up his shovel and he went to the mines
He loaded sixteen tons of that number nine coal
Til the Straw boss said, "Well, uh, bless my soul"

You load sixteen tons and whaddaya get?
Another day older and deeper in dept
Saint Peter don'tcha call me
'Cause I can't go, I owe my soul to the Company Store

So if you see him coming you better step aside
A lot of men didn't and a lot of men died
He's got one fist of iron and the other of steel
And if the right one doesn't get you then the night one will

You load sixteen tons and whaddaya get?
Another day older and deeper in dept
Saint Peter don'tcha call me
'Cause I can't go, I owe my soul to the Company Store
God's store, and this site.
-------------------------
Blue jean baby
L.A. lady
Seamstress for the band
Pretty eyed
Pirate smile
You'll marry a music man
Ballerina, you must have seen her
Dancing in the sand
And now she's in me
Always with me
Tiny dancer in my hand
Jesus freaks out in the street
Handing tickets out for God
Turning back she just laughs
The boulevard is not that bad
Piano man he makes his stand
In the auditorium
Looking on she sings the songs
The words she knows, the tune she hums
But oh how it feels so real
Lying here with no one near
Only you and you can hear me
When I say softly, slowly
Hold me closer tiny dancer
Count the headlights on the highway
Lay me down in sheets of linen
You had a busy day today
Hold me closer tiny dancer
Count the headlights on the highway
Lay me down in sheets of linen
You had a busy day today.
------------------------------------
You ain't nothin' but a hound dog
cryin' all the time.
You ain't nothin' but a hound dog
cryin' all the time.
Well, you ain't never caught a rabbit
and you ain't no friend of mine.

When they said you was high classed,
well, that was just a lie.
When they said you was high classed,
well, that was just a lie.
You ain't never caught a rabbit
and you ain't no friend of mine.



 
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parta
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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2015, 10:44:24 am »

i asked for a hundred sheets of your own writing. printing out 100 songs on toilet paper would be illegal.
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Hermocrates
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« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2015, 04:17:51 pm »

Why are the ignoramus always forming an opinion of a play before it is complete? Just because the curtains go down it is not the end, but just the conclusion of one act of a many-acts play. And this segment following is still not the end. I will place a large "END" when the last act ends! But do pay attention of the rhetoric, which is revealing the style with which a good rhetorician states and addresses the apparent and meaningful thought of things on hand, without being obvious. This is what in rhetoric means, the appearance of being "politically correct," but actually being very blunt, in truth. However, the danger with this style, as I have already proven over and over, is when trying to be politically correct with idiots. I swear, doing satire to a crowd of blockheads is as exciting as watching Canadian snowbirds hacking the roughs, and watching them fish their balls from the water hazards at Florida's many golf courses during the winter months. There must be somebody around this site that is higher, at least by a head! I know I have seen some sharp cookies here. Where have they gone? Only the bottom of the barrel, is all I get!  Well I guess I will have to start underlining and pointing a couple things or two; hopefully that will help! Che cazzo di gente stupida!

Here is the continuation, as it follows the last line; "“Don't make this kind of bargain with your brother.” . . ."


It was already dusk when we came into the market. We saw a quantity of things for sale, of no great value, though the twilight very easily cast a veil over their shaky reputations. So for our part we stole a cloak and carried it off, and seized the opportunity of displaying the extreme edge of it in one corner of the market, hoping that the bright color might attract a purchaser. In a little while a countryman, whom I knew by sight, came up with a girl, and began to examine the cloak narrowly. Ascyltos in turn cast a glance at the shoulders of our country customer, and was suddenly struck dumb with astonishment. I could not look upon the man myself without a stir, for he was the person, I thought, who had found the shirt in the lonely spot where we lost it. He was certainly the very man. But as Ascyltos was afraid to trust his eyes for fear of doing something rash, he first came up close as if he were a purchaser, and pulled the shirt off the countryman's shoulders, and then felt it carefully.

By a wonderful stroke of luck the countryman had never laid his meddling hands on the seam, and he was offering the thing for sale with a condescending air as a beggar's leavings. When Ascyltos saw that our savings were untouched, and what a poor creature the seller was, he took me a little aside from the crowd, and said, “Do you know, brother, the treasure I was grumbling at losing has come back to us. That is the shirt, and I believe it is still full of gold pieces: they have never been touched. What shall we do? How shall we assert our legal rights?” I was delighted, not only because I saw a chance of profit, but because fortune had relieved me of a very disagreeable suspicion. I was against any roundabout methods. I thought we should proceed openly by civil process, and obtain a decision in the courts if they refused to give up other people's property to the rightful owners.

But Ascyltos was afraid of the law: “Nobody knows us in this place,” he said, "and nobody will believe what we say, I should certainly like to buy the thing, although it is ours and we know it. It is better to get back our savings cheaply than to embark upon the perils of a lawsuit: “Of what avail are laws where money rules alone, and the poor suitor can never succeed? The very men who mock at the times by carrying the Cynic's scrip have sometimes been known to betray the truth for a price. So a lawsuit is nothing more than a public auction, and the knightly juror who sits listening to the case gives his vote as he is paid.”

But we had nothing in hand except one sixpence, with which we had meant to buy peas and lupines. And so for fear our prize should escape us, we decided to sell the cloak cheaper than we had intended, and so to incur a slight loss for a greater gain. We had just unrolled our piece, when a veiled woman, who was standing by the countryman, looked carefully at the marks, and then seized the cloak with both hands, shouting at the top of her voice, “Thieves!” We were terrified, but rather than do nothing, we began to tug at the dirty torn shirt, and cried out with equal bitterness that these people had taken some spoil that was ours. But the dispute was in no way even, and the dealers who were attracted by the noise of course laughed at our indignation, since one side was laying claim to an expensive cloak, the other to a set of rags which would not serve to make a decent patchwork.

Ascyltos now cleverly stopped their laughter by calling for silence and saying, “Well, you see, every one has an affection for his own things. If they will give us our shirt, they shall have their cloak.” The countryman and the woman were satisfied with this exchange, but by this time some policemen had been called in to punish us; they wanted to make a profit out of the cloak, and tried to persuade us to leave the disputed property with them and let a judge look into our complaints the next day. They urged that besides the counter-claims to these garments, a far graver question arose, since each party must lie under suspicion of thieving. It was suggested that trustees should be appointed, and one of the traders, a bald man with a spotty forehead, who used sometimes to do law work, laid hands on the cloak and declared that he would produce it to-morrow. But clearly the object was that the cloak should be deposited with a pack of thieves and be seen no more, in the hope that we should not keep our appointment, for fear of being charged.

It was obvious that our wishes coincided with his, and chance came to support the wishes of both sides. The countryman lost his temper when we said his rags must be shown in public, threw the shirt in Ascyltos's face, and asked us, now that we had no grievance, to give up the cloak which had raised the whole quarrel. . . .
We thought we had got back our savings. We hurried away to the inn and shut the door, and then had a laugh at the wits of our false accusers and at the dealers too, whose mighty sharpness had returned our money to us. “I never want to grasp what I desire at once, nor do easy victories delight me.



 
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parta
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« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2015, 04:32:55 pm »

see now i can't use any of that. you were quite productive earlier. i would like to have these rolls back by christmas so by november 21st i'd like to have all the copy. like i said the printer can make some adjustments but realllllly long sentences are a problem. think how small a sheet of toilet paper is and how small the type would have to be to fit anything too wordy.
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