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Was Atlantis inside or outside the pillar's of Hercules?!

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nikas
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« on: August 26, 2015, 10:11:32 am »

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« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 08:22:23 pm by nikas » Report Spam   Logged

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Hermocrates
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2015, 10:40:13 pm »

Nikas, you are just talking from the side of your mouth. You keep on telling others that we do not know how long a stadia is, and you give a possible range of from 10 to 200 meters in one instance, and from 50 to 200 meters in another. Ok, we will play along either way, but now explain your other words: "No, you do need a submersible for certain parts. The important ones are deep. I found the old cost (50 stadia from the outer circle)"  So what's your excuse for this lie? How can you possible locate anything to a specific location by a measurement that is unknown, as you also say? I would say it's more like you are talking through both sides of your mouth. You, so conveniently make match to Plato's words.  Elsewhere you claim to have found/located the concentric circles, and give us the stadia as 55 meters or so. More bulls**t. You know, in old North American Indian language, the Indians would say that, "you talk with forked tongue", Greek or no Greek.   

I'm not going to waste anymore time proving that you have no sense whatsoever, by pinpointing all your illogical and clear lies. I think that it's very evident what you are, and it's nothing to brag about. You are receiving your just, and due credit already from me, what need do you have of others'?
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2015, 01:16:19 am »

Nikas:

Here (below) are my evidences for outside Mediterranean (includes evidences on size larger than Mediterranean, others may seem unrelated but i have commented how/why relates to inside or outside Mediterranean). The English translations may not all be correct. I am finding high respect for your translations, though it is a real issue in having to see what the new translations really mean. However, nothing changes the stark matches/evidences with Tiahuanaco/America, just alters the details/worldview a little bit. I not longer say inside/outside pillars here now, but inside/outside Mediterranean.


"great deluge of all / greatest of all destructions by water" Timaeus 23d
[This indicates a very great catastrophe not just one the size of Sicily/Mediterranean.]

"under the face of heaven" Tim 23d
[just included as perhaps indicating whole World scale/extent view not just local/regional?]

"great/mighty power" Tim 25a
[Even if people claim this is just their empire/sphere it still indicates a city/island large enough to control so large.]

"against the whole of Europe & Asia" Tim 25a
[Maybe indicates Atlantis not Europe or Asia. May also indicate Atlantis parallel with Libya/Africa.]

"from its base in the Atlantic / this power came forth out of the Atlantic ocean" / "outside they came from the sea of Atlas" / ["in a distant point in the Atlantic ocean"?] Tim 25a
[1. If we go by the usual translations (Atlantis outside, Athens inside) : This better fits beyond Gibraltar, doesn't as/very well fit West Mediterranean.
2. See below on Nikas translation.
The pelagos/sea of Atlas could be either west Mediterranean, Caribbean, (South) Atlantic, and/or *Titicaca*. Pelagos was also used in panpelagos.
"Distant" means not too near/close?]

"in front of / opposite the straits which you call Pillars of Hercules" Tim 25a
[The (facing/front/opposite the) mouth/entrance/straits/pillars better fits Gibraltar/Gades/Tartessos than Messena.
There were 12 pillars of Hercules. There were pillars of Hercules/Melkarth at Gibraltar/Gades/Tartessos/Huelva. The pillars were there from at least time of Herodotus. Hercules had 2 sons Iber and Celtus.]

"larger than Libya &/or Asia together/combined" Tim 25a
[Too large for inside W Mediterranean / Malta.
Some say it is "between" not "larger than" but majority of translations/interpretations agree with larger than. Herodotus said Europe was larger than Asia & Libya/Africa. Meropis was larger than Europe & Asia & Libya/Africa.
A few say "or" rather than "and", but is still large.
Some say this is just empire/sphere not Atlantis island, but other details of Atlantis account comfirm Atlantis was a large island. Plus is larger than what one small city/island can control.]

"... way to other islands, and from the islands...." Tim 25a
[Better fits outside Gibraltar than inside.]

"this sea which is within Pillars of Hercules is only a harbour having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea." Tim 25b
[In consideration with other parts of all the rest of the Account it is clear Atlantis was not inside the pillars & inner sea but was outside pillars in modern ocean. The enterance & sea better fits Gibraltar & Mediterranean than Sicily area & W Mediterranean ("then"). Geopolitics of Haushofer & MacKinder also says about small indentation seas.
The sea could alternatively/also be Titicaca.]

"on/in this/the island was a great & wonderful empire ... over the whole island" Tim 25b
[This surely implies large island rather than just a empire/sphere. "Whole island" would be meanlingless for only a small ca 22 km size island.]

"and besides these, they subjected the parts of Libya within the strait/Pillars of Hercules" Tim 25b
[The English translations clearly seem to imply Atlantis was outside and conquered inside. Of course people can play clever linguistic games to say how it could be within W Mediterranean, but surley the more simple/straight-forward is more sound.]

"vast power" Tim 25c
[Indicates a large world/regional/continental scale. This could be either/both large island and/or larger empire/sphere/zone. One small island/city can't control such large.

"to subdue ... and the whole of the land which is within the strait/straits" Tim 25c
[Again, the English translations clearly seem to imply Atlantis was outside and conquered inside. Of course people claim the straits was at Sicily, but the entrance and sea better fits Gibraltar & Mediterranean than Sicily & W Meidterranean.]

"among all mankind" Tim 25c
[Maybe indicates a whole world/continental scale/view??]

"invaders" Tim 25d
[One of the meanings of Kittim in bible is also "invaders, westerners". Surely invaders better fits invaders from Atlantic ocean/America/Western hemisphere invading Mediterranean/Old World, than fits just from W Mediterranean.]

"liberated all the others within the limits of Hercules"  Tim 25d
[Again, the English translations seem to imply Atlantis was outside pillars/Mediterranean. Again, the limits/mouth/entrance and sea better fits Gibraltar and Mediterranean. The Greek world extended at least to Massila, South Italy. Some suggest Hercules &/or Odysseus visted Germania &/or Scotland. Again, Hercules had 2 sons Celtus & Iber. Hercules/Melkarth at Gades/Tartessos/Huelva. Hercules went as far as Hesperides / Atlas / Erythrea.]

"quakes of extraordinary violence" Tim 25d
[This indicates a world/regional/continental scale catastrophe, either/both continental shift &/or Earth crust displacement. (Such quakes evidences are found in Tiahuanaco/Peru/Andes.)]

"[vast] quantity of mud" Tim 25e (& Critias 109a).
[Sure there is alot of shoals near Malta, but my reading of the English versions of the Account suggest a vast quantity?]

"war ... between all who dwelt outside the Pillars of Herucles and those who dwelt within" Critias 108e
[1. If we go by the usual translations : Again the English versions imply Atlantis was outside and invaded inside. Again, pillars better fit Gibraltar/Gades/Huelva than Sicily.
2. If we accept Nikas' translation (Atlantis inside, Athens outside) which does seems convincing/convicting/right : Dis/proof based only on one or a few very disputible/uncertain/difficult things esp like "linguistics" arguments is fallible, I am sick of orthodox academic linguists who think they are so all-right and we are all-wrong asserting that their very uncertain linguistics overrules all the other quality and qauntity evidences. The liniguistics arguments can still fit our thesis, it is just difficult to see the correct answer/match (and linguists refuse to acknowledge that their asserted interpretation is still difficult/uncertain). People refuse to consider all our other evidences, some of which are far more stark/certain than their one/few difficult/uncertain linguistics arguments. Can you not see that even if Atlantis was "inside" and Athens was "outside"! that that is incredibly uncertain as any dis/proof? This can still fit our thesis/discovery/scenario better than Mediterranean/Malta. It still doesn't prove where the pillars were, and thus where outside and inside are (which ever way around). There were 12 Pillars of Hercules. We know that the Atlas world pillar/tree/moiuntain motif is found prominently in Peru. We know there were pillars at Ogygia/Calypso which might be Azores. We know Egyptian had world pillar at 9th/10th bow/arc. The Account says pillars near Gadeira [perhaps Gadeira ~ Kaptara "where pole star stands at zenith"??] Perhaps there were pillars at the ancient version of Panama? (The Atlas pillar motif is also found in Mexico and Easter island though not as prominiently. Ru "Atlas" in Polynesian.)
The pelagos/sea of Atlas could be either west Mediterranean, Caribbean, (South) Atlantic, and/or Titicaca.]

(See the Atlas [Hercules?] pillar rising from the 3 circles city in this Peruvian/Andean picture here:
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?topic=33831.msg258213#msg258213
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33831.0;attach=281;image )


"extent greater than Libya and/or Asia" Crit 109a
[This could just be empire/sphere rather than large island, but even so implies more than what one small city/island can control/project. Was Malta ever the centre of greater than Libya &/or Asia (as opposed to a part/colony of a greater power)?]

"from hence to the ocean/sea [beyond]" Crit 109a
[I think/feel this better fits Gibraltar and Mediterranean (or America/Atlantis and Pacific) than Sicily and W Mediterranean.]

"remaining in small islets" Crit 111c.
[Atlantis was not one, Malta may be?]

"gods ... distributed the whole earth .... Poseidon receiving for his lot Atlantis [Poseidonis]" (Crit 109b-109d, &) Crit 113c-113d.
[traditions say either the whole earth was divided into 3 large islands (Zeus/Jupiter/Ammon, Poseidonis/Atlantis, Hades/Pluto) & 7 small isls (Persephone/Properine), or else the Western sea/ocean had 3 large and 7 small islands. And, the Old World (Gaia?) maybe also was divided between the 3 (which means Poseidon/Atlantis was comparible size to the 3 parts of Old World?) The Atlantis account clearly says/implies Poseidon's Atlantis was large not just small.]

"a part/particular-district of it/the-island" Crit 113d
[Surely better fits a large island than a small one.]

"in/at the center of the (whole) island" Crit 113d
[More meaningful with a large island than a small one. Peru is roughly in north-south centre of S America.]

"fairest of all plains" Crit 113d
[I.e. this Plain was fairest of all plains in the world. How many / not many plains in the world match the size etc of the Atlantis one?]

"dividing the island of Atlantis into 10 portions/parts" Crit 114a
[The Enlgish clealy implies Atlantis island had 10 regions, not just that their empire/sphere did. This also matches the 9/10 arcs/bows of the world in Egyptian, and/or matches the 12 parts of Urani/Amenti/Tuat/Pet/Aaru. 10 horns beast in bible. 10 countries Mu. 10 kings Mayas. 10 kings [Azores or Canaries]. 10 curiae Rome.]

"his mothers home-district/dwelling & the surrounding allotment/land, which was the largest" Crit 114b
[Enlgish implies Atlas portion/province of the island of Atlantis was large.]

"gave them ... a large territory" Crit 114b
[Enlgish implies Atlantis island had 10 large provinces.]

"the whole island and the surrounding ocean" Crit 114b
[The "whole island" makes more sense with large island than small one. The surrounding ocean better fits Atlantic/Pacific than W Mediterranean.]

"the extremity/furthest-part of the island towards the pillars of Hercules, as-far-as/and-facing the country which is still/now called the region of  Gades in that part of the world" Crit 114c
[English imlpies Atlantis had 10 large provinces/parts, with Gadeirus' one at extremity being nearest/towards/opposite/facing Pillars and Gades or Agadir. Atlas in farthest west North Africa is analogous/parallel/mirror to Andes in South America/Atlantis; Gades in s.w. Spain may be analogous to Central America? Strabo's sacred promonitory? Opposite/facing Gades/Tartessos/Huelva would be south-west. "In that part of the World better fits beyond Gibraltar than Sicily. Necho's fleet went from Gadeira to Ethiopia/India. (Necho same dynasty as Amasis 2). Tartessos was 700/"7000" years old. Pillars/Hercules better fit "Gibraltar" than Sicily as we have already said above. There is a Cadira in Venezuela; Cati/Cates in Azores?]

"divers/many-other islands in the open-sea/ocean;" Crit 114d
[Better fits Atlantic/Pacific than W Mediterranean.]
 "and also ... in the other direction over the country within the pillars / on this side of the straits as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia" Crit 114d
[English implies Atlantis was outside pillars/Mediterranean. Pillars/straits/mouth better fits "Gibraltar" and Mediterranean than Sicily and W Mediterranean. They invaded inside pillars/Mediterrean/Europe/Libya as far as Tyrrhenia and Libya or Egypt , which implies and better fits invaded from west of Italy/Libya/Malta and outside "Gibraltar". Some may have come indirectly via Caphtor/Heligoland? Ancient history atlas maps confirm all Western Mediterranean.
The translation "from next Libya to Egypt" and "from Europe to Tyrrhenia" if it is correct doesn't actually dis/prove anything because that reading can still be seen to fit with the traditional reading &/or with our thesis anyway.]

"both in city and country" Crit 114e
[English maybe implies Atlantis island not just empire/sphere?]

"many things where brought to them from foreign countries, & the island itself provided much" Crit 114e
[The island was large, it was pretty self-sufficient. "Foreign countries" may imply foreign to region? Many things may imply regional/continental/global scale.]


"a-number-of/many parts/localities of/in the island" Crit 115a
[English implies the island was large and had many parts.]

"every kind of animal tame and wild" Crit 115a
[Indicates a continent size island.]

"great number of elephants" Crit 115a
[Indicates a large size island/continent.]

"lakes & marshes/swamp & rivers, and ... mountains and on plains" Crit 115a
[The English versions imply it means a large island of Atlantis not just a sphere/empire.]

"in that land" Crit 115b?
[Maybe further indication refering to one island/land/landmass/continent?]

"all these that sacred island" Crit 115c
[English implies all been refering to one large island of Atlantis.]

"all the 10 portions/provinces" Crit 116d
[With other parts of all the rest of the Account it is clear Atlantis was large island with 10 large provinces. See above on 9/10 arcs/bows, 12 parts Amenti.]

"the foreign cities over which they held sway. Crit 117a
[This may be the empire/sphere but might also be other cities in the large island. Foregin might possibly be foreign to region? Indicates a very large empire/sphere; can one small island/city control all that?]

"the greatness of the kingdom" Crit 117b

"horses and cattle" Crit 117c
[Horses (and cattle) may imply a large island / landmass/continent/"new world"? Prehistoric Americas had horses.]

"the rest of the country. The whole country was described as being very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea" Crit 118a-118b
["Rest of the country" implies a large island of Atlantis. "Whole country" in some places (though maybe not here) is more meaningful with a large island than a small one. "Very lofty" best fits a large island than a small one. (One the side of the sea matches South America / Peru / Andes. Not many places in the world fit this. Titicaca was an inland sea and is on the side too.) Side & sea doesn't as well fit Malta & W Mediterranean.]

"surrounding the city was a level plain , itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea ... 3000 stadia ... from the sea through the center of the island 2000 stadia; the whole region of the island...." Crit 118b
[Such a large plain and such high/lofty mountains indicates a large island. "Center of the island" and "whole region of the island" better fits large island than small one. The sea better fits Pacific/Titicaca than Mediterranean.]

"It received the streams which came down from the mountains, & winding round the plain, & touching the city at various points, was there let of into the sea. From above... toward the sea ... wood from the mountains...." Crit 118d-118e
[See last comment just above on plain and mountains, and on the sea. "Various points" confirms same island/province.]

"the surrounding mountains celebrated for their number and size ... exceed all that are now to be seen anywhere; having in them also many wealthy inhabited villages, & rivers & lakes, & meadows supplying food enough for every animal, wild or tame...." Crit 118c.
[Such high/etc mountains (and many villages/rivers/lakes (and every animal)) implies a large island/landmass/continent. Not many places in the world have such mountains ((&) on sea side of island/continent). "Hermocrates" also pointed this out.]

"And of the inhabitants of the mountains and of the rest of the country there was also a vast multitude" Crit 119b
[Surely the English is correct in implying that the mountains and rest of the country and vast multiude are the same one island not the empire/sphere.]

"other 9 governments.... Each of the 10 kings, in his own division" Crit 119c & Crit 119d.
[The other references  to the 10 kings/provinces imply Atlantis was large island with 10 large provinces, not just empire/spehere of 10.]

"in the middle of the island" Crit 119d
[More sense with a large island than a small one.]

"if any one city" Crit 120d
[Atlantis account implies Atlantis island had more than one city, not just the empire/sphere had more than one.]

"vast/extent-of power which the god settled in the lost island" Crit 120e
[The "in the lost island" seems to me to imply in a large island (and empire/sphere) of Atlantis, rather than a small island in a large empire/sphere.]

"Atlanteans were unmixed with other mortal stock" Crit 121.
[Indicates far/farthest west/south location like Peru.]

------

Poseidon/Poseidonis.
[Indicates sea/ocean/water location. Western hemisphere more water than eastern; southern more water than northern; south-west quadrant more than other quadrants.]

Sailors/fleet/ships. Crit 117/119.
[Best fits ocean/sea location.]

Climate. Crit 115, Crit 118.
[Not Mediterranean climate. Fits Peru climate (then).]

a "great river". Crit 118a?
[If translation is right, and if Atlantis island includes river not just the royal island, then fits large island not small island. Is also similar to the Amazon.]

------

Kirchir's spurious map.
[His "Atlantis" looks like one of the Americas closer closer to Old World than the other (i.e. one of the Americas between the other and the Old World). His Atlantis matches/resembles South America not North America. (South America is centred further east than North America.)]

"not far to the west of Europe ... memory of a larger island" Proclus.
"the external sea" - Proclus.
"... seven islands ... and three others of great size ... a thousand stadia in area...." Proclus.
Three large islands in the western sea/ocean (one is Poseidonis). - Proclus or another source i can't find.
[The English summaries of Proclus imply Atlantis was: outside, west of Europe, large/great island, not too far. At least one Classical source said Atlantis / 3 large islands in Western sea/ocean.]

"in the Atlantic sea, on the coast of Europe" - Marcellinus.
"a large island was swallowed up" Marcellinus.
[Marcellinus confirms Atlantis was: in Atlantic, on coast of Europe, a large island.]

"island equal in size to Libya or Asia" Tertullian.
[Tertullian confirms Atlantis was large size, an "island".]

"a remote land in the middle of the ocean" - Timagenes.
[Atlantis was remote, in (middle of) ocean, a land.]

"in the ocean" Dio Sic 3:56.
"at the ends of the earth", "remotest" Dio Sic 3:56.
Atlantis island was # days sail from coast of [west] Africa/'Libya'. - Diodorus Siculus.
Extremely good climate. - Dio Sic 5:9.
[Dio Sic confirms Atlantis was off coast of [n.w.] Africa/'Libya', # days sail duration/distance. (Atlas/Africa parallel to Andes/SouthAmerica/Atlantis.)]

Atlantic, Pillars, Tartessos in Herodotus.

Atlas mountains are in farthest west North Africa.

Strabo's "sacred promonitory" of Spain.

The continent Maurigosima (& king Peiru-un) of Chinese?
[Peiru-un ~ Peru/Pirua (Atlantis)? King ~ Atlas? (Continent ~ large island?)]

The 2 continents/landmasses/islands Kusa & Pushkara, or Vishnukranta of Indian?

Tarshish (&/or) Kittim "invaders, westerners" - Genesis 10.
[The meanings of Tarshish &/or Kittim in bible certainly match Atlantis/Atlanteans/oreichalc & Americas, and match Heliolithic (which included Peru). Tartessos was after Moses. Caphtor(im) may be Heligoland.]

Co-caine and tobacco in new kingdom mummies.

South American fan palm in Assyrian depictions of Toakkari sea peoples.

The statue of man on horse pointing [?south-]west with word/name cati/cates "this way" (Quechua) in Azores.

Egyptian accounts of north 'sea peoples' say "from the ends of the world/earth", "great darkness", "9th bow/arc", "the isles and mainland of the outer circle of water".

Amenti/Urani/Aaru/Pet/Tuat "land of setting sun" seems to match Atlantis (- Egyptian).

Hrozny gave pictures/descriptions of Indus Valley seals etc with 2 steps/feet & a boat.

Scheria/Phaeacia was like Atlantis said to be "no contact with other people" (Od 6:205), uncommonly favourable climate & west wind (Od 7:119f), best "sailor folk" & fastest ships "that carry them across the far-flung seas of Poseidon"; "in the ocean" (Od 4:568, 5:275, 12:1); in the north; "at the end of the world", "remotest" (Od 6:23, 6:205, 6:280); a great river (Od 5:440f).
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 09:23:23 pm »

Bam,

Wow! All this work you put in, and all the rationale too, is not going to win you anything. Nikas will just tell you that his sole knowledge of Plato's Greek dictates that any translation that you have used/cited is wrong, only his is correct. Here are some of his claims, as posted on this site. Nikas' statements are in bold.

I read Plato in ancient Greek. It clearly pinpoints the city Near Malta. Nowhere does he talk about Atlantic Ocean. It says – before you reach the pillars.  If you read it in English, it may sound different. If I tell you details of what he really said you might find it at the same place as me. bare in mind that he names the city ATLAS not ATLANTIS. If you write ATLAS in ENTRUSKIAN language (is written right-to left) it becames MALTA.

Apparently, the Egyptian priests knew Etruscan, as also must have Solon, Dropides, Critias, and Critias the grandson and speaker in the dialogue, and down to Plato. So the name Atlas was disguised intentionally, so as to leave a clue to posterity for finding Atlantis, or rather Atlas. How silly would this be for Plato? Even though the story goes the other way; the city and the ocean were named after the first born of the first set of twins, Atlas. The Etruscan early writings, as the experts tell us, were written right to left, as stated. But around 500 BC, they switched to left to right, besides cutting out a couple of their original 26 letters, if that really matters, but it does not. More importantly, without going into Etruscan history, the Etruscans had some things in common with the Greeks also, especially Mythology. In fact, they had many of the same Deities, and Heroes, of which Atlas, (the one that holds the world aloft on his shoulders) was one of theirs also. But, Atlas, as written in Etruscan is: Aril, not Malta. Nikas can read that backwards or forward, as he likes. Let us see how he will get Malta out of that. So much for his expertise in the Etruscan language (he also stated that Etruscan was, basically, an ancient Sicilian dialect, and that is wrong too, since the Etruscans were settled in Central and Northern Italy).
 
This article is a list of Etruscan names for Greek heroes. It is a partial list of the names given under List of Etruscan mythological figures, with the Greek name placed first.
Achilles
Achle, Achile. Legendary hero of the Trojan War.
Agamemnon
Achmemrun. Legendary king of Mycenaean Greece.
Ajax, son of Telamon and Ajax, son of Oileus
Aivas Tlamunus, Aivas Vilates; also Eivas or Evas.
Amycus
Amuce, Amuche, Amuke. The Greek legendary figure of the Argonauts myth.
Atlas 
Aril.

Now back to his claim of being the sole source in truly understanding Plato's Greek. Here is his boasting, or rather, his own acclaim of being a sort of "deity."

When I publish my book and explain everything, then and only then everything is going to fall in place. My theory is the only one that takes Plato, word by word. I speak Greek (both, ancient and modern) I studied all my life. In other words – I am the lost memory of human civilization. You will understand when you read my work. I found the link between Egypt and these people. As well as the Stonehenge people.

I'm sure that the History channel will broadcast nothing but Nikas' dream stories. How is that for boasting, that Nikas claims to be the lost memory of human civilization? I do not know that we even have an appropriate term for just such boasting. Shall we invent a new term for it? Or shall we pick out one from our old slang, like, acid tripping, or perhaps one from a medical dictionary? But, as I have stated from the first, we need to keep in mind that, perhaps this is just a joke. But when one also considers Nikas' response to me, stating something quite contrary to his claim to be the one and only expert of Plato's Greek, and also an expert in modern Greek, what are we to term his contradictions? Here is some of his response to my request to demonstrate his sole expertise in translating a couple of paragraphs of Plato's Greek, and also, besides the translation, to render the meaning of it.

Firstofall, I have never claimed to be an expert in the Greek language. You spent so much on what you’re going to say next, that you overlook other people comments. I am probably the most knowledgeable person of Plato’s Work (in Particular the Work about Atlantis Timaues and Critias). There is a reason for that which I will explain later.

So much for his Greek, and unique, expert translation.

What about this:

Can you show me where any of the mentioned names say that the stadia is large? they're the translators nothing more. No where do they state how big was a stadia. Not even the people in the story tell us how big is a stadia. Only the researchers today say that stadia is about 150-170 meters. Critias tells us that the building of Poseidon was a stadia by 1/2 a stadia. can a building be 180 meters long? doesn't make sense. Now the only good translator was Jowett, he only made one big mistake. He translated PELAGOS as OCEAN.

Well right off hand, I can think of one building being one stadia by 1/2 stadia, where the stadia is the Egyptian stadia of 209 meters. The capital building in Washington DC fits the bill, since its 751 feet long and 350 feet wide (228 by 106 meters). It sits on a slight low hill in the center of Old DC, and it has a strange Barbarian look about it, (the Dome), and to boot is also a proportionate height. But seriously, ancient temples of nearly that size exist still today. But what of the Egyptian temples? They even exceeded those dimensions. It makes sense to me!

Is not Nikas also telling us that the English translation by Benjamin Jowett is a good one, with one exception? Jowett making only one big mistake, as Nikas states, and it is exchanging Pelagos for Ocean. Ok Just let us indulge him, and take that and run with it. First, somewhere on this site it is stated as a fact, that we do not have Plato's originals, and the oldest copy that all the modern translators used is from 900 AD. Therefore a lapse of about 1,250 years for which errors and misinterpretations could have been introduced and replicated with additional copying, as someone correctly surmised. But for the argument's sake, let's assume we have Plato's original words. Since Jowett's is a good translation, as our great and mighty expert tells us, let us see what Jowett stated, as far as outside or not outside of the Med.

Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. 

Clearly, Jowett's translation is a clear indication of being in the Atlantic, otherwise it would be illogical for the story to state that the island, just below Sicily, or part of it, as it was back 11,500 years, as claimed by Nikas, also had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia (Italy). Italy, in reference to pertaining to Europe, and being located well north and a bit west of Malta, can only be considered to be within the columns of Heracles, only if Gibraltar is the location. Note that the story identifies Libya as one continent, and Europe as the other continent. Libya, in ancient times was considered as the whole area of north Africa, including present day Morocco, and Egypt too. And Asia was, basically, the Middle East countries of today, including Persia (Iraq, Iran, etc.) Therefore, again, the account can make sense only if the pillars are Gibraltar. Additionally, the pillars as Gibraltar, were what Plato intended, because he was very familiar with Sicily and those areas around it, as were also any educated Greek of his time, and prior still. Because Sicily and Southern Italy had Greek colonies from way back from the 8th Century BC, which is about 100 years before Solon was even born. Solon too, a traveler in his own rights, and a powerful and highly educated man of his times, being considered one of the seven ancient sages of Greece, had to be easily aware and knowledgeable of those locations in and around Sicily. Also one has to take in consideration that Sicily, Malta, and other nearby areas, like the Greek main peninsula and most of the Greek islands, were considered to be a part of Europe. Therefore the designation of Atlantis having subjected Europe inside the Med as far as Italy (West to East), and for the African Coast (Libya) as far as Egypt, the same West to East designation, makes sense only with the pillars at the edge of the Med, Gibraltar. Besides, if Plato wanted to let us know that Atlantis had been located in that area south of Sicily, he would have plainly stated that, since Malta (Melite to Plato) and the surrounding areas were well know to the Greeks of Solon times, and well before. Syracuse, in Sicily, a place well know to Plato, for those that read Plato, was founded by Corinthian Greeks around 734 BC. Therefore, Plato would not have needed to be beating around the bush about the location of Atlantis, and would have had no need to reference the Pillars of Heracles as a pointing guide. He would have just stated that Atlas or Atlantis was south of Sicily. Nikas likes to refer to Atlantis as Atlas, just to make the ignorant believe that Plato wrote Atlas, so that he can give us that bulls**t about the Etruscan name for Atlas being Malta, read backwards.   


Now you Bam, can keep exchanging challenges and references with Nikas, but don't you see what a quack this person is, or as we say in Sicilian, "Etruscan" dialect, a scemunitu? That is if this Malta thing is not a practical joke to begin with. There is no need to be an expert on anything to trip up Nikas. And the only tool one needs to dismantle the nonsense being presented by Nikas is just some plain, common sense.  By the way, the same method can be used to find Atlantis!

Nikas is on a holy mission, as he says that he is not out for his own glory and treasure hunt, but out to vindicate Plato's reputation, because many accuse Plato of having fabricated the tale of Atlantis. What? Excuse me! As if Plato needed any vindication. He made up lots of myths, but only for a good cause. Plato is already considered by most scholars, past and present, as the greatest contributor to our Western culture. What more does Nikas expect to accomplish, make Plato a God?  Now he better be careful about that, because in Etruscan, read from right to left,  God becomes "Dog." Ironically, in one of the dialogues, Plato asserts and proves that a dog is a most philosophical creature. Additionally, that was one of Socrates' favorite exclamation; he used to say, "by the dog of Egypt!" Meaning the Egyptian deity, Anubis. This dog headed god was associated with, again ironically, Socrates favorite subject, reincarnation, and Myth, the myth of Er, which closed the Republic, and the Republic seems to lead into the Timaeus. In turn, the Timaeus, besides introducing Atlantis, it goes on to God, the creation of the universe, and man (how, when, and where), reincarnation, and then the Critias comes in with some of the details of Atlantis, and their opponent, ancient Athens, again. But, the Critias was never completed, and the promised third speaker (dialogue) the Hermocrates, never uttering a word. If Nikas was really "the memory of our civilization," as he boasts, he should be nice enough to tell us why Plato did that. I mean to leave one in the middle of a sentence, literally and grammatically, and never getting to Hermocrates' speech.  Ironically, like the fate of Atlantis caused by the great power of Zeus, the name Hermocrates means, literally, "Power of God." I always wondered what does God, the creation of the universe and man, and reincarnation have to do with Atlantis? I have an idea, but I dare not mention it, since I will be labeled a zealous Christian again, by some other idiots.

I will leave you with another exchange that Nikas, our civilization's living memory, had with another blogger here a few years ago.  And this shows that Nikas has found new fish to bait with his stories, and that is you and me, it seems. The old fish became familiar with the bait Nikas was using a few years ago, and they just ignored him from then on. And this is what we should do, ignore him. I have only gone to length here just for your sake, and Plato's sake too. May God protect Plato's reputation from false teachers. Hell of a myth Plato told us. Even in an uncompleted status, it's still around after 2,500 years, and plenty of suckers are still taking the bait. It's like a joke that the comedian never finished with the punch line, but still, the audience is laughing their guts out.

This was posted by Qoais in 2009.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/Qoais/atlantisNikas.jpg

Once upon a long time ago, when Google Earth first became available, Nikas posted this picture and said it was proof of his theory of Atlantis in Malta.  Turned out it's just the pixels from Google Earth.  Looks a lot like that last picture.

And Nikas' response to Qoais follows:

I never said it’s the PROOF!! I said it's strange...nevertheless, it's real and still there, and it can be natural or manmade. The pixels you refer too it's a glitch that can happen for two reasons:

Either the expedition that does the seafloor mapping forgets to erase the route that the ship follows during the process...or

When they add two images together. Mapping a 2D images into a #D world.

The image I provided is real, although you don't see it there anymore, it was removed by Google earth UPON Request. But high resolution images of Oceanography still has it. And few other application.

So my Proof for the existence of Atlantis in Malta is only the writings of Plato. Everything else is just to support that claim!!!


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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 10:43:39 pm »

Bam,

Please use my name Sean rather than my abbreviated surname Bam. which is abit crude.

Critias tells us that the building of Poseidon was a stadia by 1/2 a stadia. can a building be 180 meters long? doesn't make sense.
Well right off hand, I can think of one building being one stadia by 1/2 stadia, where the stadia is the Egyptian stadia of 209 meters. The capital building in Washington DC fits the bill, since its 751 feet long and 350 feet wide (228 by 106 meters). It sits on a slight low hill in the center of Old DC, and it has a strange Barbarian look about it, (the Dome), and to boot is also a proportionate height. But seriously, ancient temples of nearly that size exist still today. But what of the Egyptian temples? They even exceeded those dimensions. It makes sense to me!

Tiahuanaco has the match for the size of the palace [185 m x 92 m].
- the Kalasasya (300 ft long / 400x450ft) /
- the throne room 160x130ft / [100x85ft] / 
- the hall 45x22ft?
(- Puma pinku/punku (167x116m, + 20m projections corners, & 5m high).

Its abit difficult dealing with 3 or 4 or 5 different measures systems (atlantean, egyptian, greek (stadia/plethrum), imperial british (feet), metric (metres)).

(By contrast/comparison Dr Kuhne's 50mx40m building in Donana in Spain is only half the size.)

- "the monolithic gateway of the temple [at Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku] is the largest example of its kind in the world";

You can see the large building/palace/temple in this map/diagram from Posnansky/Alford
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?topic=33831.msg258213#msg258213
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33831.0;attach=284;image
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33831.0;attach=287;image


Now you Bam, can keep exchanging challenges and references with Nikas,

Well you are free yourself to exchange with me on details/theories/evidences of Atlantis (depending on my time/health/situation as i have other things i need/want to do soon), so lets start a new thread called "what will you accept as proof that Atlantis found?" dealing with each of the details of the Account. Pick any of the details i listed and i will show the matches evidence. Like the size of the palace mentioned above.

By the way, the same method can be used to find Atlantis!

I found Atlantis using good method. Where do you think yours is?

But, the Critias was never completed, and the promised third speaker (dialogue) the Hermocrates, never uttering a word. If Nikas was really "the memory of our civilization," as he boasts, he should be nice enough to tell us why Plato did that. I mean to leave one in the middle of a sentence, literally and grammatically, and never getting to Hermocrates' speech.  

The Atlantis account says Solon did not complete the Story because of political troubles.
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2015, 09:03:55 am »

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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2015, 09:39:33 pm »

Gadeiros could be any of these, some of which fit ours Atlantis island = South America scenario.

Gadeirus/Gadiron/Gdr "enclosure, fortification/fortress/fort, walled city" / "sheep fold"
~ Cadira (Venezuela)? walled enclosure/fort of Stede Citades "seven cities" (burnt/melting, ne Brazil)?  Cates/Cati ("this way", Azores/Quechua)? Gradlon (k of Ys)? Hu Gadarn (Welsh)? Goidelic/Gaels? Agadir (Morocco)? Gadir/Gades/Cadiz (sw Spain)? Gadeira (Necho's fleet)? Geryon? Celtus (son of Hercules)? Ceuta? Egadi (Sicily)? Gadira (Pantelleria / extremity Malta)? Il Ghadira (Malta)? Gozo (Malta)? Gabes (Tunisia)? Hades? Symplegades? Getae? Ogaden (Ethiopia)? **Kedarus (Sanchuniathon)?**  Baal-Addir "mighty lord/master"? Gad "fortune"? Kedar "dark, black skinned"? Cedraei? El Khadir "Green one"? Kaptara (pole star, Assyrian)? Al Jazirah? Agade/Akkad/Accad? Kadi? Gedrosia?  Kattigara? Adirondacks (east USA)? Yucatan?

Eumelo(u)s/Eumel(o)us/Eumelon "rich in sheep" / "good music" / "best honey"
~ Melite/Malta? Eumelos (Cyrene)? Melos (Minoan)? Eumelos (Thera)? melon/melum "apple"/"goat"? mal- "bad/evil"? melanin "dark (brown), black"?
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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2015, 01:00:30 pm »

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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2015, 06:36:21 pm »

Gadeiros could be any of these, some of which fit ours Atlantis island = South America scenario.

Gadeirus/Gadiron/Gdr "enclosure, fortification/fortress/fort, walled city" / "sheep fold"
~ Cadira (Venezuela)? walled enclosure/fort of Stede Citades "seven cities" (burnt/melting, ne Brazil)?  Cates/Cati ("this way", Azores/Quechua)? Gradlon (k of Ys)? Hu Gadarn (Welsh)? Goidelic/Gaels? Agadir (Morocco)? Gadir/Gades/Cadiz (sw Spain)? Gadeira (Necho's fleet)? Geryon? Celtus (son of Hercules)? Ceuta? Egadi (Sicily)? Gadira (Pantelleria / extremity Malta)? Il Ghadira (Malta)? Gozo (Malta)? Gabes (Tunisia)? Hades? Symplegades? Getae? Ogaden (Ethiopia)? **Kedarus (Sanchuniathon)?**  Baal-Addir "mighty lord/master"? Gad "fortune"? Kedar "dark, black skinned"? Cedraei? El Khadir "Green one"? Kaptara (pole star, Assyrian)? Al Jazirah? Agade/Akkad/Accad? Kadi? Gedrosia?  Kattigara? Adirondacks (east USA)? Yucatan?

Eumelo(u)s/Eumel(o)us/Eumelon "rich in sheep" / "good music" / "best honey"
~ Melite/Malta? Eumelos (Cyrene)? Melos (Minoan)? Eumelos (Thera)? melon/melum "apple"/"goat"? mal- "bad/evil"? melanin "dark (brown), black"?


There are no certain facts about the original name from which the modern name of Malta came to be. Some say that Malta comes from the Phoenicians, as I posted earlier. This is one of other speculations: The modern name of “Malta” derives from “Malitah” which was the Arabic corruption of the classic Graeco-Roman “Melita”.  Melita was the name of both the island and its city: names which eventually changed to “Malta” for the island and “Mdina” for the ancient Punico-Roman city. The fact is that the ancient Greeks' name, in Greek, was also adopted by the Romans, because many Latin words are derived from Greek, and as used in Latin, did not change much, in some cases. Melita was one of those words. Malta was known as Melita by ancient Greeks and Romans, meaning the island of honey. Honey in Greek is méli, in Latin it's mel. Anyway, What are you still doing exchanging posts with this child? Just leave him with a pacifier in his mouth, otherwise he is going to keep crying and annoying others on this site.

I told you that he would not have anything for you, and was I not right?

As far as his Gadira goes, as all the various translations are in accordance, Gadira per se, was not part of the Atlantis Island/continent. It was only given as a pointer for oriantation. Any Translation will simply state/imply that the second twin of the first pair was given the land, whose extremity faced (was nearest) the European continent, specifically the Pillars of Heracles, and the city of Gadira. Indeed the Spanish Gadira is that reference given by Plato. Cadiz is the ancient city of Gadera. In fact, one of the modern English translations of the Critias goes as far as referencing the modern city of Cadiz as being that specific Gadera, directly in the translation text, in lieu of a footnote.

Eumelus was the name of several men in Greek mythology. According to Photis Kontoglou, Eumelus means "he who mas many sheeps", (derived from the words eu ena mela). You have already noticed that in your post.

Come on Sean, do you really believe Nikas? He is just some clown. Don't you see it already? Anyone can look up things on the internet today. See for yourself. Ghadira in Malta is just a tiny little marsh oasis, a nature reserve for migratory birds stopping on their North to South and vice versa migratory trips. The Ghadira reserve is located in Mellieha, adjacent to one of Malta’s rare sandy beachs, Mellieha Bay. And it does not even face West, as it is located on the extreme northern point of the main Island, which also points almost straight North.  Nikas can be easily flushed out like a pheasant in the bush, by any decent bird dog.  I hate to see anyone who has put some serious work in their thesis, like yourself, wasting their time justifying and explaning things to a person like "Nikas." He is just a simple trickster, anyone can find him out. I think that Ghadira in Maltese means Lake. Therefore Ghadira is, logically, a proper Maltese name to give to this nature reserve, since it's a watery marsh.

Anyway, you can always compare your notes with me. But you must understand that I have never put forth a claim of being privy to any special knowledge of knowing where Atlantis could be located. In this Atlantis business, I'm more like the Socrates in the Theaetetus, and can only, like a midwife, help deliver those that, like you, have ideas and speculations about the whereabouts of Atlantis. I do this by thoroughly examining whether the thesis of those are plausible and possibly true, or not. And using Socrates' own words, therefore I am not myself at all wise, nor have I anything to show which is the invention or birth of my own mind, but those who converse with me profit by me. Some of them appear dull enough at first, but afterwards, as our acquaintance ripens, if the god is gracious to them, they all make astonishing progress; and this in the opinion of others as well as in their own. It is quite clear that they never learned anything from me; the many fine discoveries to which they cling are of their own making. But to me and the god they owe their delivery. And the proof of my words is, that many of them in their ignorance, either in their self - conceit despising me, or falling under the influence of others, have gone away too soon; and have not only lost the children of whom I had previously delivered them by an ill bringing up, but have stifled whatever else they had in them by evil communications, being fonder of lies and shams than of the truth; and they have at last ended by seeing themselves, as others see them, to be great fools. Nikas is one of them, and there are many others. The truants often return to me, and beg that I would consort with them again - they are ready to come to me on their knees and then, if my familiar allows, which is not always the case, I receive them, and they begin to grow again. Dire are the pangs which my art is able to arouse and to allay in those who consort with me, just like the pangs of women in childbirth; night and day they are full of perplexity and travail which is even worse than that of the women. So much for them. And there are others, Sean, who come to me apparently having nothing in them; and as I know that they have no need of my art, I coax them into marrying some one, and by the grace of God I can generally tell who is likely to do them good. Many of them I have given away to hell, and many to other medical sages. I tell you this long story, friend Sean, because I suspect, as indeed you seem to think yourself, that you are in labour - great with some conception of having located Atlantis. Come then to me, who am a midwife's son and myself a midwife, and do your best to answer the questions which I will ask you. And if I abstract and expose your first - born, because I discover upon inspection that the conception which you have formed is a vain shadow, do not quarrel with me on that account, as the manner of women is when their first children are taken from them. For I have actually known some who were ready to bite me when I deprived them of a darling folly; they did not perceive that I acted from good will, not knowing that no god is the enemy of man - that was not within the range of their ideas; neither am I their enemy in all this, but it would be wrong for me to admit falsehood, or to stifle the truth, as with Nikas. Once more, then, Sean, I repeat my old question, "What is your knowledge of Atlantis, and how does it, logically, totally match with Plato's account?" - and do not be so confident that you have hit the bull's eye; but quit yourself like a man, and by the help of God you will be able to truly tell if your location of Atlantis is a noble birth, but just a mere wind-egg.

My best regards to you!
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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2015, 09:32:02 pm »

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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2015, 02:35:15 am »


I am leaving. I do not want to offend Nikas or anyone. "Love edifies, knowledge puffs up." People have to find the truth in their own way and time. I encourage Nikas to finish exploring his site because even if i don't agree it is Atlantis there may still be something good/great discovered there (if it is not a illusion as Hermocrates suggested (there is similarily a circular feature on google satellite maps off Orinoco mouth which i am not sure is an illusion or real)); and his translation does have good worth (though it doesn't disprove our evidences). 
No one ever discusses my evidences/matches or their doubts about my thesis with me, they just claim i don't have any. "Hermocrates" was free to ask any questions to me in my threads/topics here (i said two times "pick any of the details of Atlantis in the Account" to ask me about our match/evidences). I have already wasted enough time and effort and i have other pressing things. Besides which if i have wrong motive/ like fame/mammon/pride then i am in trouble.
Atlantis is Tiahuanaco / South America no doubt. (Gadira seems to be either in Venezuela or ne Brazil (or Yucatan or Adirondacks). Namesakes & analogous situations are known in history. Both the names must mean the same thing, we showed that both names can/could mean dark/black?)
Any credit for our Atlantis found mostly goes to Jim Allen and a number of others (Posnansky, Sitchin, etc).
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2015, 12:53:29 pm »


I am leaving. I do not want to offend Nikas or anyone. "Love edifies, knowledge puffs up." People have to find the truth in their own way and time. I encourage Nikas to finish exploring his site because even if i don't agree it is Atlantis there may still be something good/great discovered there (if it is not a illusion as Hermocrates suggested (there is similarily a circular feature on google satellite maps off Orinoco mouth which i am not sure is an illusion or real)); and his translation does have good worth (though it doesn't disprove our evidences). 
No one ever discusses my evidences/matches or their doubts about my thesis with me, they just claim i don't have any. "Hermocrates" was free to ask any questions to me in my threads/topics here (i said two times "pick any of the details of Atlantis in the Account" to ask me about our match/evidences). I have already wasted enough time and effort and i have other pressing things. Besides which if i have wrong motive/ like fame/mammon/pride then i am in trouble.
Atlantis is Tiahuanaco / South America no doubt. (Gadira seems to be either in Venezuela or ne Brazil (or Yucatan or Adirondacks). Namesakes & analogous situations are known in history. Both the names must mean the same thing, we showed that both names can/could mean dark/black?)
Any credit for our Atlantis found mostly goes to Jim Allen and a number of others (Posnansky, Sitchin, etc).


Sean,

You should not let your emotions get the best of you, like Nikas has said. Which may just be the only truth he has uttered on this site. But you and some others are giving him the benefit of the doubt, something he is not willing to give you, in return. But why give up the search for truth too soon?

Now you, Sean, should not be offended by my lack of enthusiasm in wanting to scrutinize your claim, and so ask you tons of questions about your detailed explanations to the detail evidence you provide. But I will tell you why. I'm not in a position to be a credible and fair judge of your find. Could you find any pleasure in receiving corroboration from an amateur like me? I can only rely on what other experts have to say in assessing any claims of Atlantis having been found. Further, when I do use my own unbiased opinion, which is never stemming from others' opinions, I try, as much as my abilities allow me, to use only the "illogical" and contradictory details of the tale as a measuring tool. And this is the very reason why I need not look over your details (your presentation of plausible evidence). The use of logic will suffice in rendering a fair judgment for your supposition. This applies to any other claims of having identified the exact location of Atlantis.

But, unlike some others on this site, and I will admit to be one of these others, you do get kudos for your civility and goodwill towards your fellow bloggers, and Atlantis enthusiasts. Your claim seems to be sincere, and hard thought, at least. But I would like to further explain what I mean by, not needing to look at you evidence to render my opinion, as to why I do not accept your claim of 100% certainty of having located Atlantis. However, that would take too much time and effort.

If you are so convinced and, as you claim, have all the evidence necessary to establish your find of Atlantis, why do you seek recognition of your claimed discovery on this site? Why not present your case to a reputable public media, such as the National Geographic magazine, or other such enterprises?

Can your claim compete and be more successful than this? http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42072469/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/lost-city-atlantis-believed-found-spain/#.VeYO415RG70

Or this? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1236651/Is-lost-city-Atlantis-Grainy-images-released-showing-city-like-structures-beneath-Caribbean-Sea.html

This one is almost identical with Nikas' claim, except that it's not Malta, but Cyprus.  http://www.livescience.com/91-claimed-discovery-atlantis-called-completely-bogus.html

Although you have located your Atlantis above water, can your claim argue, and hold “water” with the widespread majority, as clearly summarized in this brief report?  http://www.livescience.com/23217-lost-city-of-atlantis.html

But as far as your plead on this site, do you want others to give you acclaim just for your opinion of having found the lost Atlantis? Really? Do you not see what welcome anyone receives here for speaking their mind? If there are any real Atlantis experts posting on this site, then I'm afraid that you have failed miserably, to convince any of them with your evidence. Take our friend Nikas, for instance, he claims to be the utmost expert on this Atlantis business, and he has, flat-out, told you that your claim is worthless, based on his “expertise” in the Etruscan, Greek, Latin, English, and the other 4 languages he claims to know. He totally defeated you with only one word, Atlas, (Malta in Etruscan) What a joker, and plagiarist this Nikas. Not only did he “prove” you completely wrong, but has, as claimed, with the help of this expertise in languages, especially with Plato's Greek, actually located the real, and precise location of our beloved and elusive Atlantis, right down to the stadia. According to this utmost expert, Atlantis is almost half a world away from yours. Just how big is this Atlantis? Apparently much, much larger than Asia and Libya put together, if both locations are part of Atlantis. Additionally, it seems that others on this site have given their opinion on your claim, and it mostly shows that you are not credible with them, as far as your evidence is concerned. But I'm saying this based on a brief perusal of the posts, and not an in-depth assessment of all posts.

Now, I plainly state, as before, that I know not where Atlantis's grave may precisely lie. I partially accept the popular belief that it was in the Atlantic, orientated directly in front of the Pillars (Gibraltar), at some considerable distance west of it; perhaps going as far back as North America. In very truth, I'm not 100% convinced that Atlantis, as given by Plato, is true in all the details he gave us. And I'm even less certain as to why I have given Plato the benefit of the doubt in believing it, since the details and events Plato gave us are, mostly, illogical, and Plato was a very logical man, as we read, and also are told. Case in point for this, being the association of the tale of Atlantis having a beginning with figures of the Greek Mythological religion. Additionally, the main topic and majority of the body of the dialogue of the Timaeus itself, being of a religious nature in the explanation of the creation of the universe, seems to have little to do with the accounting of human historical events, such as Atlantis. In the introduction phase of the Timaeus, which also contains a prelude and summary of the Atlantis tale to be told in full later by Critias, seems to be incompatible and non-supportive with the main subject that develops further in the Timaeus dialogue, and which is the use of teleology to give an apparent scientific explanation as to cosmological truths in reference to their physical appearances, as observed by human sight. It seems very logical, as experts tell us, that the tale of Atlantis is introduced as a tool only, used by the artist, Plato, for further molding and shaping his main art piece, the sculpture we know as the “REPUBLIC.”  If Atlantis is ever found exactly as described, or the finding of any other credible supportive evidence to match any of the detailed conditions of the political/historical world that existed alongside with Atlantis, as communicated in the dialogues, then that will be a true world event, second only to and almost as spectacular as the promised, second coming of Jesus Christ. But let none of us enthusiasts hold our breath for either event. But be sure, if either is to happen, then both will happen at the same time, but not one without the other.

Therefore, Sean, please except this as an apology from me, if I have offended you, or your claim.
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2015, 10:03:46 pm »

If you are so convinced and, as you claim, have all the evidence necessary to establish your find of Atlantis, why do you seek recognition of your claimed discovery on this site? Why not present your case to a reputable public media, such as the National Geographic magazine, or other such enterprises?
Can your claim compete and be more successful than this? [....]

I am confident our discovery is right and that we can answer the most major questions/objections.
But i have not approached media/academics because:
- I do not know who to go to.
- I do not have the time and health to write answers to harsh scathing "academics" who will try to "tear me apart" (in their own words). They reject people unless we write a proper paper in the way they stipulate.
- because I am afraid of God that he will punish me for seeking fame/mammon.
- because they (media) are not interested.
- because why do i want to give a scoop to people that otherwise have treated me like a dog in my "life".
and some other reasons i can't think of or remember right now.

If there are any real Atlantis experts posting on this site, then I'm afraid that you have failed miserably, to convince any of them with your evidence. Take our friend Nikas, for instance, he claims to be the utmost expert on this Atlantis business, and he has, flat-out, told you that your claim is worthless, based on his “expertise” in the Etruscan, Greek, Latin, English, and the other 4 languages he claims to know. He totally defeated you with only one word, Atlas, (Malta in Etruscan) What a joker, and plagiarist this Nikas. Not only did he “prove” you completely wrong, but has, as claimed, with the help of this expertise in languages, especially with Plato's Greek, actually located the real, and precise location of our beloved and elusive Atlantis, right down to the stadia. According to this utmost expert, Atlantis is almost half a world away from yours. Just how big is this Atlantis? Apparently much, much larger than Asia and Libya put together, if both locations are part of Atlantis. Additionally, it seems that others on this site have given their opinion on your claim, and it mostly shows that you are not credible with them, as far as your evidence is concerned. But I'm saying this based on a brief perusal of the posts, and not an in-depth assessment of all posts.

They used the same arguement on Historum forum "you have failed to convince any one here", but that proves nothing because there are many reasons:
- no one can read mind of everyone to know what the really think
- i have a lot of difficulty writing very readibly
- people have their own pet theories and prejudices and
- not many people have read the thread/topic.
- others unfair/untrue tactics make us falsely appear to others as all wrong/bad/dumb/sick.
- most on forums are amateurs
- there may be consipracy.
- people are full of poison fluoridated water and brain-spam.

Place any theory beside ours and see which is stronger. Which matches all the details of the account (circles, mountains, plain, elephants, bulls, the hill, oreichalc, terrible quakes, large island, distance from citadel to sea, size of temple, distance, direction, date, springs, bulls & sacrifice, etc)


It seems very logical, as experts tell us, that the tale of Atlantis is introduced as a tool only, used by the artist, Plato, for further molding and shaping his main art piece, the sculpture we know as the “REPUBLIC.”  If Atlantis is ever found exactly as described, or the finding of any other credible supportive evidence to match any of the detailed conditions of the political/historical world that existed alongside with Atlantis, as communicated in the dialogues, then that will be a true world event, second only to and almost as spectacular as the promised, second coming of Jesus Christ. But let none of us enthusiasts hold our breath for either event. But be sure, if either is to happen, then both will happen at the same time, but not one without the other.

The "experts" that claim it is just fiction are wrong. The Account says it is true history not fiction. The spring was found at Athens just like the account says. We have found matches for many/most/all of the details of Atlantis in the Account in our Tiahuanaco/South America. They always claim this lie and they never prove it just assert it on their "authoritative" artificial "textual criticism". Any truly objective historian/scientist must objecively look to see whether "Plato"/Herodotus/"Nennius"/bible/etc are true (or not).
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nikas
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2015, 10:45:04 pm »

 Shocked
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 08:20:55 pm by nikas » Report Spam   Logged
nikas
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2015, 10:47:15 pm »

deleted!!!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 10:47:51 pm by nikas » Report Spam   Logged
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