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Atlantis Tiahuanaco

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senator Bam
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2015, 07:05:17 pm »

Alright i guess we have to post pictures instead of text.  "A picture speaks a thousand words".
In 1st picture is Mochica/Chimu mask which shows the Atlas motif/world pillar and concentric circles.
In 2nd picture is Chanchan/Chimu inscription showing the concentric circles.
In 3rd picture is Alford's diagram from Posnansky's diagram of Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku; and in 4th picture is Posnansky's diagram from Sitchin's 'Lost Realms'. In both we see some of the concentric circles and we see the prominent/central Akapana which seems to match "small hill" "dwelling of (Poseidon and) Clito" of Atlantis account.
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senator Bam
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2015, 07:29:56 pm »

1st picture concentric circles from Sillustani (nw end/area of Titicaca). (Source wikipedia.)

2nd picture Allen's picture of concentric circles from Pumapunku (Tiahuanaco [Atlantis city]).

3rd picture Chalco glyph.
[After edit: sorry the chalco glyph was a mistake. I couldn't remember whether it was Mexico or Peru. It makes no difference to our evidences/thesis. We knew which it was at the time when we considered all such evidences in all considered locations. (There are many concentric circles in lots of places. But none match all the Account's details except for Tiahuanaco.) Also the glyph is similar to the Sillustani picture anyway. Interesting that it is the only picture of the 7 apart from the Sillustani one that was viewed (2x). Seems people are only open to theories/locations they like/favour/prefer?]

see also pictures of concentric circles in Sitchin's 'Lost Realms'. One is the Colango stone. Another is from Posnansky's collected symbols from gateway at Tiahuanaco.
[Some are square or radiating cross rather than round circles but they are clearly the same motif/theme/idea.]
The snuff tablet in wiki Tiwanaku article also possibly shows water/circles?

I should have said in previous post "Atlas motif / world pillar / world tree".

Vira-cocha "sea" implies Poseidon &/or ships?

Chimu/Mochica "myth" says Naymlap arrived with a "fleet" of "balsas". (May confirm boats, though Poseidon came to/built Atlantis city &/or large island "before boats invented" [Atlantic land bridge?].)

Another thing about why the city can only be in Peru is because lake Titicaca is the only match for the sea (as well as the city, mountains, plain, civilisation, Atlas motif, etc) in the account in all Americas.

i guess the only way to settle this is to pit our site against any other rival site (like the favoured Caribbean one) to show which better matches. Our site is the only best site in all the Americas & World that matches all details (even the few disputed ones ("sinking", distance, route, boats). We have matches for the plain, city, concentric circles, mountains, Atlas motif, 10 (2x5) kings, oriechalc, bulls/sacrifice, elephants, distance from city to sea, the sea, the small hill, etc etc. Where are the mountains/Atlas, etc in Caribbean?
Anyway will try do checklists of our and and any other site (like Caribbean) to show which is better if necessary.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 06:05:26 pm by senator Bam » Report Spam   Logged
senator Bam
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2015, 08:35:37 pm »



I've just read Atlantipedia's/Tony's new Mediterranean article and see he raises the same issue/s he raised in the page about my thesis. So it is on topic to answer here (see first post was answer to the entry criticisms).

Atlantis was outside not inside the pillars & Mediterranean. Was outside Pillars. Was in outer/real ocean not in inner/Mediterranean sea; & they conquered with upto Tyrrheania & Libya/Egypt (from west). Atlantis was large island that not fit in Mediterranean ("larger than Asia & Libya", large plain, large population, 10 regions, mountains, etc). The Atlas mountains are in very western end of Mediterranean. (Africa/Atlas & Gades/Spain clearly mirror South America/Andes and North America?) Some say the Mediterranean had number of pelagoses and the Atlantic was the one external pelagos. The "Atlantic/Ethiopian/Erythrean" sea was clearly the (south) Atlantic ocean.

It is not good enough to say his figures are suspect (and that may be multiplied by ten). You have to dis/prove each thing (like we did the date). [Saying/asserting/assuming suspect is even more Suspect.] Moreover we have shown clear proof of the large plain matching with Peru/Bolivia (the Altiplano, plus it is also shown in the Coricancha picture (see first post), plus seen in Crespi collection pictures, etc).

Yes there were 12 pillars of Hercules, but the ones of the Account (and of Herodotus) are clearly the Gibraltar/Tartessos/Gades/Huelva ones.

Herodotus said his contemporaries were wrong to say world was only the 3 continents of Asia, Libya, Europe. Moreover that was long after Atlantis had "sunk".

The catastrophe was global/continental/regional not just local. Atlantis and Athens are on touching tectonic plates.

They say Plato doesn't explicitly say the 2 armies were lost at same time anyway?

Odyssey is no proof of Mediterranean, as the Odyssey locations are still highly disputible. I suspect that it may even relate to whole world or whole hemisphere/"world". [12 stops/stages Odyssey, 12 kings Scheria, 12 Scylla, 12 books Homer, etc all recall 12 stages Amenti/Tuat, 12 pillars Hercules, 10 kings Atlantis, 12 months, 12 signs Zodiac, 12 tablets Gilgamesh epic, 12 battles Arthur, 120 poles Gilgamesh, 12 volumes Virgil, etc.)

Wolf's Odyssey doesn't necessarily match (i managed to get through to it eventually and studied it very closely). At first i was pretty convinced, but oin further thinking and studying (incl Spanuth's notes) see it may not match. There are some seeming possible matches (Aeolia, Scyllas, Circe, Thrinakia, shield shape, basilicata, cape collone, etc), but other things seemingly certainly do not match (Cimmerians/Hades, in ocean, great/*tidal* river, at end/remotest, Phaeacians were sailors, arena/s, hot baths?, 9 days?, desc of/from Poseidon? etc). His Scheria name match is actually closer to Scylla name.
Moreover Odyssey was after the Trojan war which was century/centuries after Atlantis. See my chronology table & notes a couple of posts/replies ago in this thread.
(The drug nepenthe/moly may connect with concaine of New Kingdom??)
Trojan war & Odyssey even have links with Mahabharata. Tacitus said Hercules & Odysseus visited Germans/Norse?

Uliliyassis (Hittite) ~ Uthuze/Ulysses/Odysseus ~ Yudhishthira (Indian)? ~ Utnapishtim (Akkad)?

Maybe Odysseus is Quetzal-co-atl?Huh

plutarch said: ogygia/venus/calypso island in midst of western sea 5 days sail west of britain, further still to west is/are island or 3 islands of cronos, great mainland lies beyond, continent saturnia forms atlantic shore at least 50 stades (500 miles) from ogygia, 13 greeks descended from hercules, cronos held prisoner by zeus in 1 of islands beyond ogygia [or] in great mainland that lies beyond the islands & sea....
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Desiree
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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2015, 12:03:05 am »

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This topic has only been read 50 times so i am wasting my time anyway.

Only 50 times..?  I have 64 times. Anyway, who cares how many times its been read, the truth is the truth. right?

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Looks like i will just have to post alot of the date chapter from my paper here. He doesn't say 9600 bc. He says "9000 years".

No, he doesn't: the 9600 is arrive at Plato writing the tale at about 360 BC. Well, Solon visited Egypt at about 600 BC, they reference the Atlantis tale at about 9000 years before then (the biggest number known to the Greeks at that time), and that is how we get the 9600 BC date arrived at. They could have just as easily said it happened a long time ago, but it it is what it is, and, if you want to take Plato literally, that is the date you have to set it in.
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There is also dispute exactly were the pillars were.


I have heard that argument before. I am pretty sure that the Pillars of Hercules were pretty well established as the Straits of Gibraltar by that time, and even if they were still up for debate, well, we have that whole geographic description of the Med and its relationship to the ocean:
Quote
and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.

That sure sounds like the Atlantic to me.


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There is nothing in the Atlantic except Americas (or Armorica plate). There is only one place in Americas that fits the city and plain and mountains etc.

There is nothing in the Atlantic that we have confirmed. I've seen reports of sunken ruins in the Atlantic for years. It is expensive to do underwater archaeology in the ocean, though, so no one ever investigates. Maybe Atlantis is out there, just waiting to be found.

Quote
He says in your translation "disappered into the depths of the sea" not "sank/sunk". As i have alrady said there are a number of possibilities all of which people have to consider. Literal sinking/sank; submergence/rising sea levels; continental shift; crust displacment; vlocanic eruption/explosion; tidal bulge; figurative; etc. We have shown that the "sinking" can/"must" fit either shift or displacement.
There is no large sunken landmasses in the Atlantic (or other oceans). (The only ones there are are too small or nothing there or etc.)

He does say:

But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.

Your Atlantis is still above the sea and not vanished from the earth, right..? That is why you may have found the flat plain, other features, but the capital city has to be elsewhere, if you take Plato literally.

Quote
How can you say the distance (now/post-shift not necessarily then/pre-shift) is too hard to believe yet you don't think a small island ruling an empire is hard to believe?


If you had better boats than the reed boats, I might be more apt to believe you. Reed boats cannot control an empire that spans the ocean. The reason Great Britain had such an extensive empire is because they had such a powerful navy. I don't buy into the high tech Atlantis empire like Edgar Cayce talks of, there is no evidence of that. But they must have had something better than everyone else or they wouldn't have been an empire at all.

Like I said, yours/Jim Allen's/Morrison's theory has some definite possibilities. You have the ancient civilization, the high population centers and maybe the flat plain. I would like to know more about the picture found at Cuzco, was it..? On the other hand, your capital city did not vanish in the same manner that Plato writes about, the time period is off, and I don't see any evidence of the great calamity happening in the time you set your Atlantis in.

By the way, I always figured that Atlantis and the two armies were destroyed in the same calamity, that seems to be the way Plato describes it.

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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
Desiree
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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2015, 12:21:22 am »

Blowing this up a little bigger so I can see it:






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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
senator Bam
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« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2015, 07:44:56 am »


0. it is 64 views now, but was 50 then. Subtract our views from the reading/posting 18 replies.

1. The Coricancha pictiure you blew-up (&) from a different source has distorted the concentric circles in the (lower left side of the) lake in the right side of the picture.

2. I can not read the tiny bleared text in the drawing below.

3. Whether people accept that picture or not, we have also posted others some of which surely can't be disputed. Orthodox are well known for corrupt versions/copies of pictures. The Mochica/Chimu mask i posted above clealry shows the Atlas pillar motif symbol rising from the concentric city.

4. Look, the darn Atlantis account does so say "9000" years before Amasis 2. It does not say 9500 bc. I have already given my (strong) evidence that it is 900 years not 9000 years, and ca 1400s bc not 9600 bc. So we will just have to agree to disagree. Other scholars have also given evidence that it can not be 9000s bc but must be bronze age. It is not as simple as taking or not taking literaly. I have shown his date is literally true but it is not "literal". No one have proven 9600 bc/9000 yrs.

5. The pillars as Gibraltar fits our thesis (and doesn't fit Mediterranean Atlantis theories). If you don't accept that South America is opposite/facing/fronting/etc the Pillars in various maps/projections then don't. But as for me I see that the pillars as/at Gibraltar fits Atlantis as South America (eg map version with Giza/Cairo as centre), &/or the pillars might not have been exactly at Gilbraltar/Tartessos/Gades/Huelva but abit further out/down. Spain/Atlas (and Europe/Spain/Gades) matches South America/Andes/Atlantis (and North America?). The Atlantic/Erythrean/Ethiopian sea/ocean was south Atlantic. South America is ccentred further east than north America; north America is centred further west than South America (after & before the shift/"sinking").

6. (S) America is in the Atlantic (and outside the Mediterranean) as the account says. Moreover Atlantis was clearly in the South Atlantic/Erythrean/Ethiopian. Atlantic = is both sides of Atlantis (Atlantic/Pacific/Antarctic)?

7. Well of course orthodox academics always argue the negative (or say we can't argue negative), that oh it just hasn't been found yet because they haven't been able to look. But as for me it is clear that there are no large enough sunken landmasses in the Atlantic (&/or any other ocean that fits the account). But there are "sunken" as in shifted/displaced ones. We have found the capital city and the plain and many other matches all in one place that fits (despite people trying to dispute a few things). Our site is that only best match, no other place only/best matches.

8. For the last time. Our Atlantis the continent (S America) did "sink" / is "sunken". It just didn't literally sink but rather it genuinely appeared to have "sunk" becausse there was a Shift or Displacment or other catastrophe. The account doesn't even say "sunk/sank" but overwhelmed or swallowed or various other translations (like the one you posted earlier).
Tiahuanaco/Titicaca is "sunk" because the whole continent "sunk/sank".
Tiahaunaco/Andes is only a part of the whole island, so how can everyone keeping saying oh it is raised not sunk. The whole island "sunk/sank" (shifted/displaced) but in so "sinking"/shifting a small part of it was crested up higher. Only a part of whole island was raised, but the whole island did "sink".
South America/Atlantis the contient did "sink" and is still "sunken"/shifted/displaced. Tiahuanaco is on one hand sunken because the whole island/continent "sank"/shifted/displaced/swallowed/overwhelmed, and on other hand "is not "sunken"" because a smart part of the whole island was raised higher in the "sinking"/shift/catastrophe.
I am not sure of the exact correct scenario for the "sinking" whether continental shift or pole shift/crust displacement or one or two other scenarios, but let us just say it shifted so i can get you to see what i mean. Atlantis "sunk" = America shifted. Imagine the Atlantic was once upto say half the current width/distance and then there was a shift to double the previous width/distance (= the current width/distance). So Atlantis/America was once there at so many miles/kms/stadia, then it was not there at so many miles/kms/stadia but gone to double the distance away. So it shifted = it "sank/sunk"/"vanished". See? And i am exasperated because everyone just sees/says oh Andes was raised not sunk, but the whole island did "sink"/is "sunken". Just a small part was raised up in the catastrophe/shift/"sinking".
So people saying S America is above sea not "sunken" is not actually/necessarily correct, and people saying Tiahuanaco is raised not sunken is not actually correct, because people can't/won't see that there are a number of possibilities for the "sinking" (sinking, submergence, shifting, displacement, etc).
That the Andes were clearly raised suddenly in lifetime of ancient humans/civilisation clearly shows there was either a shift or a displacement or pass by of heavenly body. Also Tiahuanaco has a flood in archaeology and "mythology"/tradition.
And because I am now positive I found the capital city, we can be sure that the "sinking" scenario must fit with Andes raising in the catastrophe/"sinking".

9. The plain and city and mountains "must be"* &/or have been found in one place not in different places, and they are in Peru/bolivia not elsewhere (Caribbean etc) (and the Peru matches are too stark/many to just be "a part of Atlantis/empire").
* Whether the Account is true and they are in one place, or is not true and "could be in different places", I and you/they/anyone/everyone has to prove or give evidence not just assume/assert "may/not" be. I have given plenty of good evidence (if it is not massive enough for some people then fine, but people can't say i haven't got/given any/much good evidence at all).

10. It is sad that just one or a few minor disbelief/disputed issues like the boats/route/distance/"sank" outweigh all the text and pictures evidences from Peru/etc here and in my rough paper. Both sides fault/problem. My fault/because i am not able to more excessively prove a few things like that (though i have given some good provisional possible answers through-out this thread and in paper).

11. Yes we have (more than just) some definite possibilities (and we are only doubted/disputed by people to "not" have a few things).
Can we perhaps come up with a list of Atlantis account details in order of most important first that we can check off?
- we have the concentric land/water circles (&) city (in fact and in pictures).
- we have large island/continent. (Though people dispute that Atlantis not large &/or dispute that S America not island.)
- we have in Atlantic (and not in inner sea); and outside pillars (not inside pillars).
- we have (high) ["Atlas"] mountains.
- we have oreichalc match/es.
- we have bulls or "bulls" & *sacrifice* match/es.
- we have large/great Plain match (in fact and in pictures), plus the ditch and criss-crossing channels.
- we have the Atlas (pillar) motif.
- we have two crops a year.
- we have date match (though you dispute).
- we have "sunk/sank" / overwhelmed/swallowed / vanished [shift/displacement/catastrophe] match, and in "terrirble quake/s & flood/s" match. (Though you/people dispute.)
- we have the temple/palace matching buildings there.
- we have the "small hill" / "dwelling of (Poseidon &) Clito" match [the Akapana] (in fact and in pictures).
- we have civilisation match.
- we have match for "(near) the sea" (lake Titicaca, in fact and Coricancha/etc picture/s), and we have the exact distance from the city to sea matching!
- we have large population match as you say.
- we have "facing"/beyond/opposite Pillars (but you dispute that).
- we have red white and black match (though i not sure of the exact actual rwb cliff match).
Etc.
So the issue is: we have many matches but (1) some are ignored, and (2) alot are disputed/denied as/or not excessively proven enough.


12. I'm okay either way with the 2 armies being destroyed in same or not in same.

13. "I don't see any evidence of the calamity happening in he time you set Atlantis in"?
- Inca/Peruvian king lists say long night and Tiahuanaco catastrophe happened in ca 1400 bc.
- Evidence that Andes raised suddenly in lifetime of ancient humans/civilisation. (Dates for Tiahuanaco includes 1500s bc.)
- Bible has Exodus & Joshua's sun stand still about same time.
- Stonehenge (contemp Mycenanean) damaged on southwest side.
Many other evidences. Velikovsky wrote a whole book full of them. (I am not able or willing to have to write a whole book to prove it (esp as they will just reject me like they reject his).)

14. I already answered the date in recent post above/earlier and in my blog paper.

15. I can't answer the "reed" boats any better now/yet. But to be fair to me, I have already given some possible answers in posts from the first to the previous.

16. I already listed the matches between the Coricancha picture and Atlantis account:
- the great plain (Altiplano) and surrounding ditch and crossing channels.
- the sea (lake Titicaca)
- the canal/river?
- the cliff.
- the small hill / dwelling of (Poseidon &) Clito [the Akapana] (in the left side concentric city).
- the concentric circles city shown 2x (1 on left and 1 on right in the lake).
- a couple (Poseidon & Clito, or Clito's parents?) or twins?
- 2 crops a year ("sun/stars & moon/clouds = summer and winter") (sukukolus).
[- 7 islands/hills/cities?]
- maybe beyond the north wind? or shift? (the 2 star crosses).
- mountains?
- woodlands? or crop?
- gold/metal matches oreichalc "gold-copper"??
- "Vira-cocha" matches Poseidon?
The concentric circles and plain are also seen in Crespi collection. The concentric circles is also inthe Mochica/Chimu picture i posted and the Sillustani one, and Jim Allen's Pumapunku one, and Posnansky's collected Tiahuanaco gateway symbols. The Atlas (pillar) motif is common in Peruvian.
For one description of the Coricancha picture from Cuzco see Sitchin's 'Lost Realms'.


ps. I was maybe wrong about Wolf's Scheria/Phaeacia. In some ways it seems he may be right afterall, though there are still some frustrating uncertainties/difficulties that i can't yet see for sure if he is or not. But if he is right it has no disproof bearing on Atlantis because they are certainly not same site (if his is Scheria right).
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senator Bam
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« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2015, 04:01:48 am »

Some of these people dispute, but some of these are stark in my opinion. (Left out a few more of the 10 kings and the red white and black which are in my blog Atlantis paper/page.)

contents of matches below between Atlantis account and South America/Peru/Tiahuanaco:
outer ocean, outside pillars, wester, atlantic, route, sank, large island, kirchir map, mountains, Atlas motif, popn, civilisation, plain, midpoint, sea, distance city to sea, concentric/city, hill, temple/palace, central island, rw&b, volcanic/quakes, distance, date, oreichalc, 2 crops, elephants, bulls/"bulls", script, sacrifice, boats, name Atlantis, blue robes, poseidon, opposite continent, 10 ks/twins, other sources, gadeira?, came to before boats?, below sun?.


* in outer/real/true ocean not in Mediterranean/inner sea
- (South) Atlantic/Pacific/Antarctic.

* outside/beyond/front/facing/opposite not in Pillars
- North and South Americas both qualify as opposite Pillars (now/then, on various maps projections).
- South America is opposite in map projection with Giza/Cairo as/at centre/center (which Piri Reis map is supposed to match).
- pole shift.
- also compare Zanne's map.
- 45 degree tilt (Schulten/Sitchin)?
- Kirchir's map  fits/matches South America.
- possibly disputible where the Gibraltar/Tartessos/Gades/Huelva Pillars were (the pillars might not have been exactly at Gilbraltar/Tartessos/Gades/Huelva but abit further out/down)?
- sources seem to imply Atlas/Africa (& Europe/Gades/Spain) mirror Atlantis/S America/Andes (& N America)?


* western:
- Western Hemispere.

* in Atlantic:
- is in Atlantic. (Atlantic could be both sides of Atlantis.)
- "Atlantic/Ethiopian/Erythrean" sea/ocean was South Atlantic (Herodotus etc)?

* route
- the statue of man on horse that was once in Azores used to point (?south-)westwards and was named or connected with the word/name Cates/cati which means "this way" in Quechuan (Incan/Peruvian).
- ancient canal/strait of Tehuantepec (Compton)?
- Around north(west) corner and down west coast?
- there would have been different geography then before the shift/catastrophe. If there was a shift then America would have been closer to Africa.
- the candelabra on Peru coast seems to be a route marker?
- across Amazon/Madeira river/s.
- Through Magdalene river in Colombia?
- Through Entre Rios region?
-  around southern tip?
- it is possible that the 12 stages of Urani/Amenti/Aaru are a map across South America to Tiahuanaco?
- "extensive trade routes".
- "Seas were highways not barriers".
- links between Andes and Egypt/etc include reed boats Titicaca & Tana & Gulf; 3 pyramids Sipan & Giza; links between Tierra Dentro & Malta (Frank Joseph)?
- Seculus said they kept trade route secret?
- sites like Stede Citades, Paraiba, etc?
- 3 circles of Atlantis cross & 3 pyramids may match 3 landmasses?
- South American fan palm in Assyrian pictures of Toakkari Sea People?
- wind/tide currents?
- compare Naymlap etc?
- Africa sticks out further than Europe, and South America centred further east than North America.
- route of Viracocha extands from Potosi or Tiwanaku to Cajamarca or Macchu Picchu or Quito.


* "sank/sunk"/"submerged" / "swallowed"/"overwhelmed"/"disappered into the depths of the sea" (& "vanished/disappeared") in terrible quake/s & flood/s:
- the Account doesn't say "sank/sunk", it says swallowed-up.
- people have to consider that there are a number of possible scenarios/matches for "sunk/sank" (sunk/sank, sumbmerged,  tidal bulge, shifted, displacment, etc). It looks like the sinking is most likely continental shift or pole shift/crust displacement  (the land &/or water shifted sideways)?
- Tiahuanaco had flood in archaeology and in tradition/myth.
- long night catasrophe ca 1400 bc (Inca kinglists).
- unu Pachacuti "water overturns land"?
- evidences Andes pushed up suddenly & violently in lifetime of humans/civilisation (Velikovsky, Darwin, Lissner, Berlitz). (Dates for Tiahuanaco includes 1500s bc.)
- Stonehenge (contemp Mycenanean) damaged on southwest side.
- The catastrophe was global/continental/regional not just local? &/or Atlantis and Athens are on touching tectonic plates? (2 armies may or may not have been destroyed in same or not in same catastrophe/time, but fits either way.)

* large Island/continent/landmass
[larger than Asia & Libya (some dispute it is "between" not "larger than", but the majority of last 2500 years say larger than), "whole island", 10 regions, great/large plain, many species incl elephants,  (high) mountains, large population/army, Kirchir's map, Atlantis a "large/r island" that ruled over the other islands of Atlnatic, self-sufficient, etc. Compare that Herodotus said Europe was larger than Asia & Libya.] :
- Island in ancient and modern can mean island, continent, world island/old world, peninsula, etc.
The Old World is called the world island.
- Atlantis could only be either/both of the Americas or Armorica plate.
- (South) America (or Americas) is a large world/landmass/continent/island.
- Atlantis island in Kirchir's map is large and seems to match S America in details.
- if there was a continental shift then South America may have been more of an island before shift.
- Kusa?

* Kirchir map match:
- his Atlantis (betw America and Europe/Africa) seems similar to S America (between N America and Africa/Europe). S America is centred further east than N America.

* (high(est))mountains/Atlas
- Andes (which parallel Atlas) (though they have been pushed up higher in the catastrophe).
- mountains shown in Coricancha picture?

* Atlas [Shu] (world pillar/tree) motif
- spade symbol above head in Peruvian masks including the Chimu/Mochica one i posted earlier (from Pears).
- Ru "Atlas" (Polynesian)?
- hats of Easter island moai?
- Rairu's father Karu "sky maker"?
- Chamacoco tried to climb into sky up a huge tree?
-  the 2nd intermediate/air part of 3 parts of Coricancha picture?
- arco del cielo (Coricancha)?

* large population:
- South America is a continent.
- "There are also many evidences of large populations in South America, for thousands of years".
- finds a couple of years ago about Amazon then (geograpic/scientific magazine tweet on twitter?).
- evidence/s that Altiplano had high population (Allen).

* civilisation/high culture
- many Peruvian/Andean remains.
- the Heliolithic culture?

* large/great plain with surrounding ditch and criss-crossing channels:
-  Altiplano & geoglyphs,
- all 3 shown in Coricancha picture,
- seen/shown in Crespi collection.
- sukukolos "raised fields" Peruvian agriculture system.


* midpoint of the longest/sea side of island
- Peru/Titicaca/Altiplano is in middle area of Pacific side of Sth America.

* (near) sea
- lake Titicaca ("vast inland sea");
- shown in Coricancha picture.
- Andes then had Pacific geo-climate (Lissner).
-  evidences of Tiahuanaco connection with lake/sea/ocean then.
- "sea ports in the Andes" (Velikovsky, Sykes, Daniken).

* 9.2 km distance from city to sea:
- roughly the exact same distance from Tiahuanaco to Titicaca. (The figures of sources vary. One says Tiahuanaco 10 miles from Titicaca, another says "Tiahuanaco [now] 12 m sth of Titicaca"? Another says a few / 13 miles from Titicaca.)
- "vast area" / "several square miles in area".

* circular/concentric land/water circles (&) city
- concentric canals/circles in Tiahuanaco/tiwanaku diagrams (Posnansky/Sitchin/Alford),
- shown 2x in Coricancha altar picture,
- Pumapunku inscription (Allen),
- shown in Sillustani inscription (wiki) [compare with Chalco glyph Mexico?],
- concentric circles shown in Chanchan/Chimu inscription (picture posted in earlier post).
- concentric circles seen in the Chimu/Mochica mask i posted in earlier post.
 - concentric circles seen in Calango stone (Sitchin 'Lost Realms'),
- concentric circles shown in Crespi collection (Daniken). Also maybe shown in head of figure in Crespi collection?
-  Posnansky has concentric circles symbols from Tiahuanaco/gateway (Sitchin).
-  "radiating cross" (Sitchin).
- The snuff tablet in wiki Tiwanaku article also possibly shows water/circles (Wiki)??
-  3 carved channels between Ilyapa temple & rainbow temple?
- 4 parts Cuzco recall Atlantis cross?
- concentric circles also in the 3 windows drawing of Salcamayhua?
-  evidence that Tiahuanaco/Akapana was connected with Titicaca (water).
- Eldorado/Manoa?
- Huinaymarka means "eternal city".
- Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku called "Baalbek of New World".
- Atlantis/Tiahuanaco city & Titicaca is (inverse) analogy of Eridu/etc city & Persian Gulf.
- "lost city of giants Ecuador"?
- Atlantis can only be in Americas (incl/excl Antarctica) or Armorica plate, and (Titicaca &) Tiahuanaco is only place in the whole Americas & in Peru & around Titicaca that it can be and that fits/matches.


* small hill / dwelling of (Poseidon &) Clito:
- Akapana (Posnansky/Alford/Sitchin/Daniken drawings/descriptions),
- shown in Coricancha picture?

* temple/palace (& sizes [185mx92m])
- kalasasya 400x450ft /
- kantatayita /
(- puma pinku) /
- throne room160x130ft / [100x85ft /
- hall 45x22ft]?
- "the monolithic gateway of the temple is the largest example of its kind in the world".
- coricancha "golden palace"?

* central island 5 stades:
- central island Tiahuanaco 2x1 miles.


* red white & black (&) cliff/s:
- r w & blue steps church Paucarcolla,
- gold silver copper,
- the first people were divided into tribes according to their colour [3 castes/races?] (Kadevo, Brazil)?
-  3 parts Coricancha picture [heaven, air, world/underworld]?
- cliff(s) shown in Coricancha picture?
 

* volcanic/tectonic/quakes line:
Some sources reckon Atlantis "must" be in a volcanic/quakes region because of discovery/thesis a couple of years ago that ancient sites seemingly often were/are.
- Tiahuanaco is near Khapia.
- the candelabra?


* distance (remotest, at ends of world, at distant point in Atlantic, unmixed with other mortals).
- Peru is western-most and southern-most (tropic capricorn) of major world civilisations.
- compare people object because of the distance.
- if there was a continental shift then Atlantis/America was once closer to Old World.

* date ("9000 yrs before" / "9600 bc", or 900 yrs before / ca 1400s bc) ("3rd deluge") ["bronze age"; same time as Moses].
- Many scholars say it is not possible because Athens/Sais/etc wasn't there so early.
- Plato's 900(0) years Atlantis = Herodotus' 900 years Moeris & 900 yrs Hercules.
- Hyperboreans lived a 1000 years = 100 years.
-  Exodus mentions enemies of Egypt?
- shoal of Sesostris?
- long night c 1400/1394 bc (Inca king lists, Sitchin, cp Hoeh),
- archaeologists date for Tiahuanaco [1580 bc] bc.
- "Bronze Age America"?
-  Exodus & Joshua's sun stand still about same time.
- Posnansky date for Tiahuanaco.
-  "12000th yr" Tiahuanaco.
- 10481bc Akakor (though supposed to be a fake)?
- Peruvian is the oldest civilisation/agriculture in Americas (and one of the few oldest of world).
- in Americas "oldest is south and east not north and west" (Compton).
- Stonehenge (contemp Mycenanean) damaged on southwest side.


  * oreichalc ("gold + copper/gold")
- gold byproduct of copper/zinc production.
- tumbaga "gilded/gold - copper (Allen)?
- gilded-copper (Sipan).
- Crespi collection includes brass/tin/zinc?
- AuAgCu of Chavin (Mattievich)?
- Akapana/Tiahuanco/Titicaca/Andes/Peru a copper/tin/zinc smelting/mining centre (Sitchin  'Lost Realms'),
-  Andes/Peru is [one of the] major/richest source(s)/deposits of copper/tin/zinc in world (Collins atlas).
- Tiwanaku ~ Anaku "tin"?
- Andes ~ antis "copper"?
- titicaca may (be from titikala and) mean "tin/lead crag/rock"?
-  "Bronze Age America" (Fell)?
-  uru names in Andes (Sitchin),
- gold of Eldorado/Conquistadores/Peru/Coricancha?
- "unusual alloys" in America [similar to "unusual alloys" in Africa] (Jantsang & lost source)?
- stone blocks with grooves/ [nail] holes [for metal sheets] at [Pumapunku]?
[- compare "tears of the lady" with tears of the sun?]

* 2 crops a year
- sukakollus summer & winter agriculture system.
- shown in Coricancha picture ("sun/stars & moon/clouds = summer & winter", Sicthin);
- before Andes raised.

* elephants
- seen in Crespi collection,
- mastodons/toxodon (Allen, Hanc0ck, Childress).
- Americas had "Indian" elephants (MacKenzie).

* bulls (sacrifice)
-  Sitchin 'Lost Realms',
- "bulls"/llama (Allen 'Atlantis in Bolivia')?
- horned animal sacrificing a human (Sipan pottery, Reader's Digest 'Vanished civs').
-  ceramic stone bulls on housetops,
- pottery cow / cow shaped vase / cow sacrificed & entrails put in vase (Larouse world mythology),
- seated "deer" figure carrying a club (Larouse world mythology).

* script
- Crespi collection (Daniken),
- Colango stone (Sitchin),
- before quipus.

* (bull) sacrifice
- horned animal sacrificing a human (Sipan pottery, Reader's Digest 'Vanished civs').
- llama sacrifice (Allen).
- cow sacrificed & entrails put in vase (Larouse world mythology).

* some matches for boats/seafaring:
- 10 ships Paraiba inscription (Kolosimo)?
- compare totora/reed boats (shape/design if not material) [similar to Noah's Ark (Fasold)],
- Heyerdahl.
- Chimu/Mochica "myth" says Naymlap arrived with a "fleet" of "balsas" (Pears),
- Chimu (Chan chan) pottery figure of "reed boat" titled "life on the ocean wave"?
- Peruvians had "sea-worthy rafts" (Readers Digest 'Vanished Civs").
- "sea ports in the Andes" (Velikovsky/etc).
-  Dragon-boat racing Puno?
-  raft of Taycanamo myth?
- evidences that Phoenicians visited (South) America.
-  Polynesians.
-  "Maps of the ancient sea kings" (Hapgood).
- "the seas were highways not barriers".
- the "archaic maritime" culture of North America,
- "extensive trade routes".
- coc(h)a "sea" names?

* name Atlantis/Atlantic/Atlas
- the Account says the names were Greek translations of Egyptian translations of Atlantean originals.
- there are possible matches for the name in S America/Tiahuanaco area eg Tahuantinsuyo / Antisuyo/Antisuco / antis/Andes; isla Allan; Atau?; ["Alpha"?]; [Atlatona?].

* some matches for blue robes:
- Araucanian blue robe (Huxley).
- gold & blue (robe) Sipan?
- gold & blue Chanchan?


* Posei-don (sea/water / quakes / horses / trident etc god):
- Vira-coc(h)a "sea" god?
- Pachacamac god of earthquakes?
- shown in Coricancha picture?
- Rimac?
- Eldorado?
- candelabra like trident?

* (parts of) opposite continent:
- matches either  N America (cp Kirchir map)? Asia (cp 2/3 steps, Indus/Hrozny)? Australia? Antarctica?
- Kusa & Pushkara?

* 10 (5x2/twins) kings  [12 ks Scheria?]:
- 5 deities of the Urus?
-  5 flanking either side on 'Gate of the Sun',
- 5 fountains?
-  9th inca rebuilt temple sun?
- 9/10 [icons/sephiroth] Coricancha altar picture?
- 10 kings Taycanamo dynasty,
- 10 ships Paraiba inscription (Kolosimo)?
- 10th king after Naymlap?
- 10 citadels/enclosures Chanchan.
- 11 pillars Tiahuanaco?
- 13/26 cities Akakor map (though supposed to be a fake)?
- some cities/tribes were founded by or descended from two persons (i can't find the details/references at moment). King and nobles of Chanchan "descended from 2 stars".
- 2 creatures in the concentric circles in the El Dragon picture (Chanchan)? (That's the picture i posted earlier.)
- Tupi & Guarani? Witoto & Zaparo? Quechua & Aymara? Yahgan & Ona? Quat & Iae?
- Bachue always bore quadruplets or sextuplets?

* other versions other than Plato's showing/saying where it was:
- the Inca picture from the Coricancha with half a dozen to a dozen matches of details from the Atlantis account?
- chimu/mochica mask has atlas pillar motif & concentric circles.
- Alfords & sitchins/posnansky's Tiahuanaco diagrams have the circles & small hill.
- the matches between Peru and Atlantis are too strong to just be "from Atlantis (or part of Atlantis) but not Atlantis".
- the 12 stages of Tuat/Amenti may match South America?


* Gadeira:
- Cadira Venezuela?
- Gades/Spain/Europe & Atlas/Africa maybe analogous to North America & South America/Andes/Atlantis?

* Poseidon came to Atlantis large island &/or Atlantis royal island before boats/ships:
- continental shift &/or Atlantic land bridges??

* under/below the sun?:
- tropic capricorn?
- equator cuts through Peru in pole shift maps?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 05:25:08 am by senator Bam » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2015, 05:00:24 pm »

Quote
0. it is 64 views now, but was 50 then. Subtract our views from the reading/posting 18 replies.

Sean, why do you care how many views you get? We're a pretty small forum here, I guess if you posted on Hancock's website, you'd get more feedback. Then, you'd also run into a few more blanket skeptics and New Agers, too, who believe all sorts of other stuff.

Some of us have been searching for Atlantis for years and we have our own views on it, we also read the dialogues a lot more literally. Maybe that is a mistake, but I have yet to come across an Atlantis theory that does not do its share of fudging many of the details to fit a particular point of view and yours is no exception.
Quote
1. The Coricancha pictiure you blew-up (&) from a different source has distorted the concentric circles in the (lower left side of the) lake in the right side of the picture.

I'm not seeing any concentric circles there, where are they..?  The grid-like structure looks like it might be the flat plain, and I take it the two figures are supposed to be Poseidon and Cleito. You do know that orthodox archaeology has a whole different take on the relief, right?

Quote
2. I can not read the tiny bleared text in the drawing below.

I hate to say it, but your pics are so small, I can't make out any of the details on them, which is why I am looking for better images of them.

Quote
3. Whether people accept that picture or not, we have also posted others some of which surely can't be disputed. Orthodox are well known for corrupt versions/copies of pictures. The Mochica/Chimu mask i posted above clealry shows the Atlas pillar motif symbol rising from the concentric city.

And I am not seeing anything in South America that resembled the capital city. Remember, Plato said it was close to the sea, a five and a half mile canal cutting through the concentric circles to the Citadel. It should look like a bullseye on any map and should only be about five miles from the sea.

Quote
4. Look, the darn Atlantis account does so say "9000" years before Amasis 2. It does not say 9500 bc. I have already given my (strong) evidence that it is 900 years not 9000 years, and ca 1400s bc not 9600 bc. So we will just have to agree to disagree. Other scholars have also given evidence that it can not be 9000s bc but must be bronze age. It is not as simple as taking or not taking literaly. I have shown his date is literally true but it is not "literal". No one have proven 9600 bc/9000 yrs.

Like I said, 9000 years before Solon places it at 9650 BC. But let's forget about that for now and not take Plato quite so literally: let's just say it was in the distant past. We have evidence of calamities like Plato writes about in the distant past, we do not have them at 1400 BC, certainly nothing that could make a whole island vanish beneath the sea.
Quote
he account doesn't even say "sunk/sank" but overwhelmed or swallowed or various other translations (like the one you posted earlier).
Tiahuanaco/Titicaca is "sunk" because the whole continent "sunk/sank".


He says:

But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.

So not only did Atlantis vanish into the sea (like an island would), but the sea was supposed to be impassible in those parts because of the mud. Many ancient scholars make mention of an impassible sea because of mud, I think even Aristotle did it. Plato is the lone one that gives a reason for it. Some Atlantis theorists cite that as a reason for the Sargasso Sea to have been so impassible, but it had to have been someplace near the Med, because the Greek colonies only extended as far as Spain and Gibraltar, so they weren't in the habit of venturing out that far. They sure as heck didn't get as far as South America.
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2015, 05:18:06 pm »

Sillustani Stone


Interesting that you should bring this up, but the spiral in itself proves nothing. It is in rock art all over the world:

Scotland:



Gabon:



AUSTRALIA



THE ALPS










SPAIN



   B O L I V I A



Cuba:



Korea:



California:



AT FUENTE DE LA ZARZA
LA PALMA, CANARY ISLANDS



Ireland:



This is one of the reasons I think that Atlantis was an island empire. No way could it have been in all of these places so I see them as a sea  faring empire that touched pretty much every place in the world. Like I said, the capital is underwater (like Plato states) and it was the part that sunk.
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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2015, 01:07:05 am »

Can we just deal with one detail (like say concentric circles (&) city) &/or one picture at a time? Is too much. Though i will just reply to your more than one points.

Some of us have been searching for Atlantis for years and we have our own views on it, we also read the dialogues a lot more literally. Maybe that is a mistake, but I have yet to come across an Atlantis theory that does not do its share of fudging many of the details to fit a particular point of view and yours is no exception.

If you want to assert every single detail has to be Totally Litteral Modern English Interpretation then you will never agree with our find and will never find a site that matches. World history proves that authors/sources do not always have exact modern interpretation meaning.

Authors/sources sometimes have not entirely "literal" words/phrases/etc. I can't think of any example except:
Do you say Joshua literally halted the sun? Why is Plato/Sonchis any more True than bible?


I am offend that you say i am not taking literally and/or "fudging". I do not fudge the Atlantis account. I do take the account very seriously/literally. There are just a few things that are not completely "literal" in the way you like. You can not assert that every single detail is absolutely literal modern interpretation. We have proved each detail is literal or "almost-literal". Each detail has to be proven/disproven not/"literal". The account fits our findings, our findings fit the account in each detail and in general/interconnections. I am not making it fit a point of view. In and since 1999 we read and studied and thought and searched/investigated/analysed and deducted, and finally about 1-2 years ago for the city we were forced to accept it was that site.


Look as you say everyone has their own pet theories and wants to find Atlantis themselves. I am sorry. Perhaps it is better for everyone to find it (there) themselves by coming to it in their own way & time. I myself didn't like that David Fasold was right about Tiahuanaco (and Jim Allen was almost spot on), but i was forced to accept the stark evidences (listed in previous post).
I have provided tons of evidences but seems is not enough or not written good enough (and not good enough pictures).
Why should i care anyway? Let everyone believe what they want about Atlantis and/or about me/my thesis. It is not worth it (I have other things i need/want to do, can't recover forever lost hours (for ages) replying/proving to people).


I'm not seeing any concentric circles there, where are they..?  The grid-like structure looks like it might be the flat plain, and I take it the two figures are supposed to be Poseidon and Cleito. You do know that orthodox archaeology has a whole different take on the relief, right?

The circles in Coricancha picture are shown two times. See the very first post of this topic. Click on the attached picture thumbnail for larger. First time is on the left (the "rainbow/arch"). Second time is in the lower left side of the lake on right, though i am abit unsure about this 2nd one now because some versions don't show it while my version/s does.

We can discuss the "whole different take" of orthodox on the Coricancha picture if you wish. I am confident we are right about half/dozen matches with Atlantis Account details.


I hate to say it, but your pics are so small, I can't make out any of the details on them, which is why I am looking for better images of them.

All the pictures i posted are thumbnails that can be clicked on (i couldn't find how to attach pictures that way you do, may require posting links not uploading.) Some are small but some aren't. (Can also try using magnify.) Some of the pictures say/said Zero views.



And I am not seeing anything in South America that resembled the capital city. Remember, Plato said it was close to the sea, a five and a half mile canal cutting through the concentric circles to the Citadel. It should look like a bullseye on any map and should only be about five miles from the sea.

My sources say 9.2km. Both the Account distance and the Tiahauanaco (now/then) distance vary between sources. But some i saw seem to be almost exactly the same km/miles.
This is what i mean about things being ignored.
 I'll just repost from my previous post:

* 9.2 km distance from city to sea:
- roughly the exact same distance from Tiahuanaco to Titicaca. (The figures of sources vary. One says Tiahuanaco 10 miles from Titicaca, another says "Tiahuanaco [now] 12 m sth of Titicaca"? Another says a few / 13 miles from Titicaca.)
- "vast area" / "several square miles in area".

* circular/concentric land/water circles (&) city
- concentric canals/circles in Tiahuanaco/tiwanaku diagrams (Posnansky/Sitchin/Alford),
- shown 2x in Coricancha altar picture,
- Pumapunku inscription (Allen),
- shown in Sillustani inscription (wiki) [compare with Chalco glyph Mexico?],
- concentric circles shown in Chanchan/Chimu inscription (picture posted in earlier post).
- concentric circles seen in the Chimu/Mochica mask i posted in earlier post.
 - concentric circles seen in Calango stone (Sitchin 'Lost Realms'),
- concentric circles shown in Crespi collection (Daniken). Also maybe shown in head of figure in Crespi collection?
-  Posnansky has concentric circles symbols from Tiahuanaco/gateway (Sitchin).
-  "radiating cross" (Sitchin).
- The snuff tablet in wiki Tiwanaku article also possibly shows water/circles (Wiki)??
-  3 carved channels between Ilyapa temple & rainbow temple?
- 4 parts Cuzco recall Atlantis cross?
- concentric circles also in the 3 windows drawing of Salcamayhua?
-  evidence that Tiahuanaco/Akapana was connected with Titicaca (water).
- Eldorado/Manoa?
- Huinaymarka means "eternal city".
- Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku called "Baalbek of New World".
- Atlantis/Tiahuanaco city & Titicaca is (inverse) analogy of Eridu/etc city & Persian Gulf.
- "lost city of giants Ecuador"?
- Atlantis can only be in Americas (incl/excl Antarctica) or Armorica plate, and (Titicaca &) Tiahuanaco is only place in the whole Americas & in Peru & around Titicaca that it can be and that fits/matches.


* small hill / dwelling of (Poseidon &) Clito:
- Akapana (Posnansky/Alford/Sitchin/Daniken drawings/descriptions),
- shown in Coricancha picture?

* temple/palace (& sizes [185mx92m])
- kalasasya 400x450ft /
- kantatayita /
(- puma pinku) /
- throne room160x130ft / [100x85ft /
- hall 45x22ft]?
- "the monolithic gateway of the temple is the largest example of its kind in the world".
- coricancha "golden palace"?

* central island 5 stades:
- central island Tiahuanaco 2x1 miles.


Like I said, 9000 years before Solon places it at 9650 BC. But let's forget about that for now and not take Plato quite so literally: let's just say it was in the distant past. We have evidence of calamities like Plato writes about in the distant past, we do not have them at 1400 BC, certainly nothing that could make a whole island vanish beneath the sea.

it seems to me that you are admant that 9000 years must only be literal 9000 years. I have already given my answer to 9000 years. We do have a match for ca 1400s bc and 900 (and 800) years. (E.g. Moses/Joshua; Hercules; Moeris; long night in Inca king lists; at least one archaeological date for Tiahuanaco; etc.)

I have already explained how the whole island vanished.
How come i can't (supposedly) "fudge"/"take not literally" but others can? Atlantis was a large island and "sank". You say can't be literal large island (& sank) / (large island &) sank. I say is large island, and did  genuinely/"literaly" "sink", just not literally "sink" in  the way you expect/insist/assume/assert/interpret/traasnlate. (The account doesn't say sank in many versions though one does say sank.) There are a number of possible scenarios for the "sinking" of the Account (literal sink, submerge, shift, displacment, etc). Perhaps a more detailed study of the whole Account on the "sinking" would provide evidence for what the "sinking" was?

He says:
But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.
So not only did Atlantis vanish into the sea (like an island would), but the sea was supposed to be impassible in those parts because of the mud. Many ancient scholars make mention of an impassible sea because of mud, I think even Aristotle did it. Plato is the lone one that gives a reason for it. Some Atlantis theorists cite that as a reason for the Sargasso Sea to have been so impassible, but it had to have been someplace near the Med, because the Greek colonies only extended as far as Spain and Gibraltar, so they weren't in the habit of venturing out that far. They sure as heck didn't get as far as South America.

See my Atlantis page/paper/notes at 2rbetterthan1.wordpress.com , Atlantis page (link top right). See in contents and then in main text the part on "muddy sea" which mentions sediments, etc. Shift or displacment would have caused it. (Also see other ancient sources quotes mentioning Atlantic mud/etc like you say. Sesostris shoal?)

 -----

Re the 2nd reply/post (no quote)

Yes i know that there are concentric circles/spirals all around the world, but we have nevertheless shown  in previous post that Atlantis large islnad and city and plain and mountains and so on only (&) best matches Tiahuanaco/Peru/South America.
Yes Atlantis & Atlanteans was known aorund the world and had empire and many other travels, but no Atlantis can't "not be one site/land". Atlantis like Hyperborea was built to mirror the spheres of heaven (&/or earth). Yes it had an empire but it was also a large island/landmass/continent, as i showed/listed many times in this topic (see previous reply/post).
Atlantis can't be in all those places. And none of those places matches all the details of the Account except for Peru/Bolivia. That is taking the Account as literally as humanly possible in almost all the details, far more than any others.

The Silustani one is certainly Atlantis/Tiahuanaco. The wedge seems to be the cliff/s?
Look at the Mochica/Chimu mask i posted it has the Atlas pillar rising from the centre of concentric circles Atlantis city/Tiahuanaco. Atlas pillar motif (spade symbol) is common in Peruvian.
The other Chanchan one clearly has 3 rings, and it is similar to "rainbow" in Coricancha picture.
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« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2015, 03:34:45 am »

This picture seems to maybe have the circles in the lake
www.labyrinthina.com/inca.altar01
but this one doesn't and it instead looks like is just a few marks there
http://galacticdoor2011.blog.com/files/2011/12/gold-map-in-coricancha.jpg
So maybe in the one that does seem to have them it is just an illusion of concentric circles from few marks. But the circles are still in the left hand side ("rainbow/arch") and the dot in the right hand side joint to lake by canal may be the city rather than lake Poopo as i had thought. (Thus the canal & city are shown on left and right?  (as Atlantis account says)).

I only have slower-than-used-to-be-before-the-evil-fibre-optics-broadband-campaign/changes Dialup so i am not able to do any more net/web pictures research unfortunately (I have already been on tody for 4/+ hours!)
I guess the only way to do this is to offer to pay a reward to someone who can get me aerial and satellite photos (2km x 2km, ..., 9 km x 9 km, ..., upto 22 x 22 km, centred on Akapana), plus Posnanskies plans/diagrams/maps.

circle(s), & the "small hill":
www.condoramericano.com.ar/historia/Tiahuanaco.htm

Posnansky's symbols from Tiahuanaco gateway incl concnetric circles city
www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/reinosperdidos/reinosperdidos10.htm

cliff?
blog.world-mysteries.com/science/ancient-ruins-of-tiwanacu-and-pumapunku/

opposite pillars of hercules (esp if has shifted)
community.adlandpro.com/forums/post/2393680/ALL-ABOUT-COSMIC-CYCLES-AND-AGES/4.aspx

Even if we more heavily prove than we have already the concentric circles i am sure people will still deny it.
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« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2015, 02:01:59 am »

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If you want to assert every single detail has to be Totally Litteral Modern English Interpretation then you will never agree with our find and will never find a site that matches.

I don't assert that every detail has to match. Logically, the Greeks had no idea where exactly Atlantis was, namely because:

1. None of them had ever been there.
2. There was no method of telling the passage of time existing in the era that Atlantis existed. The Greeks themselves weren't even a culture then.

What bugs me, Sean, is that some researchers, and I have to add you to the list, take some details more seriously than others or try to ignore some details in order to fit a theory.

We know it happened a long time ago, we know that it was beyond the Pillars of Hercules (Gibraltar) and we know that it vanished into the sea. To my mind, all other details, the when and the where of it, are open to interpretation.
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I am offend that you say i am not taking literally and/or "fudging". I do not fudge the Atlantis account. I do take the account very seriously/literally. There are just a few things that are not completely "literal" in the way you like.

I'm offended that you are offended! Look at all the various interpretations: Bury, Jowett, all the others, they all say 9000 years in the past.

From Critias:

Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe.

As for the physical description of the city (excuse the length of this):

And beginning from the sea they bored a canal of three hundred feet in width and one hundred feet in depth and fifty stadia in length, which they carried through to the outermost zone, making a passage from the sea up to this, which became a harbour, and leaving an opening sufficient to enable the largest vessels to find ingress. Moreover, they divided at the bridges the zones of land which parted the zones of sea, leaving room for a single trireme to pass out of one zone into another, and they covered over the channels so as to leave a way underneath for the ships; for the banks were raised considerably above the water. Now the largest of the zones into which a passage was cut from the sea was three stadia in breadth, and the zone of land which came next of equal breadth; but the next two zones, the one of water, the other of land, were two stadia, and the one which surrounded the central island was a stadium only in width. The island in which the palace was situated had a diameter of five stadia. All this including the zones and the bridge, which was the sixth part of a stadium in width, they surrounded by a stone wall on every side, placing towers and gates on the bridges where the sea passed in. The stone which was used in the work they quarried from underneath the centre island, and from underneath the zones, on the outer as well as the inner side.

That is a very specific, very detailed description of the concentric circles and it doesn't actually match Tiahuanaco. I am NOT adamant about the 9000 years, just the idea that some of the other details don't match: no real calamity to match the kind that Plato wrote about, no evidence of the war (or any contacts at all between the Med and South America at all at that time), and the fact that, with the technology of their boats at that time and their geographic location, Tiahuanaco was not actually in position to have a sea empire, let alone one in the Med.

The concentric circles around the world are important!  I always believed they were evidence of the sea empire that actually was the basis for Atlantis. You're probably aware of this, but it wasn't actually called Atlantis!  Plato also wrote:

Yet, before proceeding further in the narrative, I ought to warn you, that you must not be surprised if you should perhaps hear Hellenic names given to foreigners. I will tell you the reason of this: Solon, who was intending to use the tale for his poem, enquired into the meaning of the names, and found that the early Egyptians in writing them down had translated them into their own language, and he recovered the meaning of the several names and when copying them out again translated them into our language.

So, that, like other details makes the account even more open to interpretation.

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This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.
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« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2015, 06:05:18 pm »

Ok i am wrong then. Stupid dumb Sean. It just takes far too much time and effort and i just don't have the ability/health, time, resources, situation.
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« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2015, 06:35:19 pm »

Lets just take one thing at a time. Since the concentric circles seems to be the biggest issue? maybe take that.

And beginning from the sea they bored a canal of three hundred feet in width and one hundred feet in depth and fifty stadia in length, which they carried through to the outermost zone, making a passage from the sea up to this, which became a harbour, and leaving an opening sufficient to enable the largest vessels to find ingress.

Several sources say Tiahuanaco and the Akapana were connected with Titicaca.
There is canal/s there eg the desaguadero (spelling?), and in Posnansky's/Sitchin's/Alford's diagrams. Maybe also in satellite pics but i couldn't tell if canal or modern road.
The canal is seen in a few inscirptions/pictures from Tiahuanaco, eg the Calango stone. The Coricancha picture also shows canal.

Moreover, they divided at the bridges the zones of land which parted the zones of sea, leaving room for a single trireme to pass out of one zone into another, and they covered over the channels so as to leave a way underneath for the ships; for the banks were raised considerably above the water. Now the largest of the zones into which a passage was cut from the sea was three stadia in breadth, and the zone of land which came next of equal breadth; but the next two zones, the one of water, the other of land, were two stadia,

I can't prove the outer 1 or 2 circles on the ground at Tiahaunaco (only in pictures), i can only prove the inner 1 or 2 circle/s and central island on the ground. But Tiahuanaco does have other parts that seem to fit with other land circles (Pumapunku, etc). I need satellite and aerial and infra red photos, and archaeological reports, which i don't have access to on only dialup etc.
The inner circle/s & island we can prove and does imply the other 1/2 circles; and the concentric circles inscriptions/depictions from Tiahuanaco, Pumapnunku, Peru confirm we are right.

and the one which surrounded the central island was a stadium only in width. The island in which the palace was situated had a diameter of five stadia.

This matches Tiahuanaco positively. We already posted the pictures from Posnansky/Sitchin/Alford showing the inner ring and inner central island. Eg:
www.condoramericano.com.ar/historia/Tiahuanaco.htm
We posted the text showning the inner island matches the inner island of Tiahuanaco in size and in palace/temple (and small hill). Quote:
"* central island 5 stades:
- central island Tiahuanaco 2x1 miles."

 -------------

I posted pictures and text proving but is all ignored. I am not wasting anymore time. I hate people making me look falsely wrong by ignoring (or other things i have had elsewhere).

in very first post, in Corciancha picture we see:
- concentric circles city 1 or 2 or 3 times.
- the small hill (akapana)
- the canal.
- the sea (lake)
- the large plain & dicth and channels
- the 2 crops a year
- the cliff/s.
- a couple (Poseidon & Clito?) or twins
etc

in reply 15 pictures we see in picture 1 (Mochica/Chimu mask)
the 3 concentric cirlces, the Atlas pillar.
in pic 2  (Chanchan/Chimu inscirption)
the 3 concentric cirles
in picture 3 (Posnanskys/Alfords diagram of Tiahuanaco)
2 concentric circles and canal, and small hill
in picture 4 (Posnansky's/Sitchin's diagram of Tiahuanaco)
the inner circle and island, and the small hill, and temple/palace.


in reply 16 we see in pic 1
the 3 concentric circles (note from Pumapunku part of Tiahuanaco)
in pict 2 (Sillustani)
we see the circles and the cliff?

in reply 25 i posted links to pictures including
www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/reinosperdidos/reinosperdidos10.htm
which shows circles etc from Tiahuanaco gateway.

in the Calango stone we see the 3 circles and the canal cutting through the city (and 5, and script)

So we have at least 1 or 2 of the circles in the ground at Tiahauanco, and we have all the circles confirmed in pictures from Tiahuanaco/Pumapunku and Peru.

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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2015, 06:24:13 pm »

Just an update on the dispute about boats (and distance and invading/projecting)
We have found a seeming match of Atlantis with (Tarshish-)Kittim in the bible. And there is mentions of navy/fleet/ships. [Though some of the references are later and may be Tartessos, Moses also mentioned Tarshish-Kittim earlier.]
There is also a strange possible connection of Tarshish-Kittim with both Atlantis/America and Thera-Crete, which might possibly suggest connection between the two (so Atlantis had a Mediterranean "base"?)

(daughter/navy/ships/kings/stone of) Tarshish /  Tarshish(-Kittim) (from rasasu/rss "mine, (to) smelt, smelting plant, metal refinery, refinery, furnace", "a type of (semi) precious gemstone/yellow jasper/beryl/chrysolite / topaz,  amber"; "a destruction that breaks into pieces of white, ie white volcanic ash rock or pumice", "solid/rocky, the region/place of the stone", "hard; hardness; severity; breaking; broken; subdued; subjected", "gravitational energy; precipitant force", "sea, name of a sea 2000 parasangs wide, the sea coast") (no "and" between Tarshish & Kittim; "a wealthy and flourishing seaport town towards the west"; heartofseas?;  merchants/ships, merchant/riches/metals/ silver/gold, stone of, ivory)
~ Thera(-Crete)? Central America(-South America/Atlantis)? (Central America-)South America/Atlantis/oreichalc? Megalithic/heliolithic? copper/bronze/iron?

(isles/islands/land/ships/coast of) Kittim /  (Tarshish-)Kittim (meaning "violent peltings" "bruisers/break" / "invaders" / "bitter & hasty nation") (ivory, fleet, "used for all islands and greater part of sea coasts/coastlands", no "and" between Tarshish & Kittim)
~ (Central America-)South America/**Atlantis**. (Thera-)Crete/Keftiou? (Iron?) [in Ezekiel prophecy Usa &/or Uk?]
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