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Atlantis Tiahuanaco

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Author Topic: Atlantis Tiahuanaco  (Read 1743 times)
Hermocrates
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« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2015, 03:37:50 pm »

Hi Sean,

About the Pole shift/Displacement, anyone who has researched Atlantis ends up doing a lot of reading about that, and everything I have heard on the subject, it doesn't happen overnight. It happens over hundreds and even thousands of years. It would be an immense cataclysm! I don't see the geology pointing to that in 9600 BC, let alone in the more recent time frame you set it in. How do you explain that?


Desiree,

I like the way you, logically, reflect on certain things that Plato has stated, and then, holding to that as your standard, you measure and weigh the claims made by anyone as to the identity and location of Atlantis. You, then, pose your thoughts and logical assessment of those claims, by carefully pointing out the pro and cons, and finally, if it does not meet, or closely approximates your measurements (Plato's words) you, boldly, point out the apparent follies of their thesis, which certainly had not, readily, entered their minds before they invested all that time and efforts to fully developed their thesis and ideas. That makes a lot of sense, this reflective method of yours, I mean. We all should apply it, as you do. Apparently, some people do not understand, or do not want to understand, for a reason, that if they build on a bad and very shaky foundation, their buildings will never stand straight, and will, sooner or later, topple over and crumble to pieces. Still, even after the many, "I told you so," they try to sell these partial things that went to edify their glorious and magnificent structures, these crumbled pieces, which never fitted well in the details and plans given to us by Plato. All that glitters is not gold? 

But, in a return in kind, I have to pose the same argument, and use this same tool of measurement you do. I can understand if you do not want to respond. I'm not trying to be confrontational, as I just want to understand how the standards are generated for assessing and critiquing claims around here. And I hope that I'm not being out of place in posing you a question.

Why do you, Desiree, who seems to believe in Atlantis and Plato's words about it, cannot believe that these type of catastrophic events can occur quickly? Was not Atlantis destroyed and sank in a day and a night?
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senator Bam
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« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2015, 02:50:55 am »


I have already answered the pole shift / crust displacment etc at http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,34543.0/msg,261684.html
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« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2015, 11:51:55 pm »


I have now answered the "ocean or sea" and the "in or out of the pillars" linguistics objections. http://lifetradition.webs.com/atlantis.htm
just leaves the invaded upto Tyrrhenia & Libya/Egypt objection to answer.

I see someone has hacked my account here as it showed me online when i was not online (but just as visitor/guest). I will try change my account security settings but not sure they won't be able to get around it because they already logged in. Shows someone here is not so good as they make out.
I don't know what posts of mine they have changed/altered/deleted or what posts they have posted under my name.

I still have not viewed any replies since i said i was leaving.
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Hermocrates
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« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2015, 12:24:56 pm »


I have now answered the "ocean or sea" and the "in or out of the pillars" linguistics objections. http://lifetradition.webs.com/atlantis.htm
just leaves the invaded upto Tyrrhenia & Libya/Egypt objection to answer.

I see someone has hacked my account here as it showed me online when i was not online (but just as visitor/guest). I will try change my account security settings but not sure they won't be able to get around it because they already logged in. Shows someone here is not so good as they make out.
I don't know what posts of mine they have changed/altered/deleted or what posts they have posted under my name.

I still have not viewed any replies since i said i was leaving.


Sean,

Why do you suppose me to have pointed out to Desiree Plato's words, other than a clarification on how to, logically, and uniformly apply any critique to any speculations brought forth, such as yours, to all the particulars mentioned in Plato's dialogues? But if you want to see some “real fudging” and what some accept on this site, then you need to converse with “Paulo Riven” and his posts here on this very site. Now, if some think it strange that religion is present, and accepted on this site, just ask Paulo, as you will not only get traditional religion, but you will also get Science Fiction, New Age nonsense, “Star Wars” like legends,  Mysticism, Gnosticism, "Objectionism," Catechism, "Egyptologism," "Confusism," Paganism, Materialism, "Imaginism," "Contradictionisim," "BSism," and just about every kind of “ism.”

Your argument, that the land mass of South America before the pole shift, or whatever else you may propose as cause, could have been originally located around the equator is suited to your thesis, so as to make it more plausible to have Atlantis closer to the Med for sailing purposes, in response to Desiree's critique, is a perfect example of your bias, and a detriment to your speculations. Therefore you, if you use that as defense, you must now account, as to the positions of the other land masses also before the calamity occurred. In particular, as pertaining to the rest of the detailed descriptions given by Plato. For surely, if such an event occurred, causing the shift and movement of the South American portion of the American continent over a distance of many hundreds of miles, and not to mention your claim of the additional vertical rising of several thousands of feet of this immense land mass, then judging and using this large scale, it must have been a world wide catastrophe, and it must have also done the same for the other world land masses.  Do you see how everything will not align, as given in the details by Plato?

Now, you have an admixture in your thesis. You give us the location of Atlantis as it now stands in our present time, but you relate it to us as having been around the equator and at sea level before the calamity that befell it, while you still hold to Plato's other particulars (locations) e.g.; the position of the Med, the continents of Europe and Africa, the locations of the cities of Athens, Gadeira, the Strait of Gibraltar, Libya, etc., as identified and positioned by Plato before the calamity of a pole shift, or whatever caused the land masses to considerably, shift position. They all shifted and moved and rose or sank, as the case may be, or none of them did. 

Additionally, your Equator pre-cataclysm location for Atlantis still does nothing for the North cold winds, because by the time those Northerly winds get that far south to the equator, assuming that they would ever reach that far south, they would only be warm tropical breezes, at most. Also, your two yearly crops would also be gone. The reason for the allowing a two yearly crops is, as Plato states, the water issue. In winter from the sky, and in the summer by irrigation from the winter mountain waters (melting snow) collected in the rivers and canals. Around and at the Equator, as now, and most assuredly then, there is no winter and summer, as temps are nearly constant all year round at sea level in the Americas. Near the Equator there is little distinction between summer, winter, autumn, or spring. The temperatures are usually high year-round—with the exception of high mountains in South America. Although in many tropical regions people identify two seasons: the wet season and the dry season, but as far as your location having been at sea level, this does not apply because the places close to the Equator that are on the oceans are rainy throughout the year. Besides, an equator position eliminates much of the other variety of crops, especially the dry sort, mentioned by Plato.  Besides all this and what has already been related to you by others, your Tiahuanaco temple and buildings do not comply with the descriptions, as they are large monolithic stones, and not something that one would make an ivory roof for it, or silver plate it, nor cover the inside surfaces; walls, ceiling, and floors with a coating of precious metals. And as far as the red, white and black stones, it is referring to buildings made of them, something like the English and American single homes which on the outside many are made with small bricks of mixed colors, and therefore not what you point out.
 
In short, we say that, “you cannot have your cake and eat it too.” Or more easily understood, “you cannot have it both ways.”   

And by the way, this should have been your argument against Nikas and his challenge to you on Atlantis being inside the Med. Our friend Nikas has been arguing with you about names, as he says that there is truth and a correctness about them known only to him, which is the same for Greek as for foreign languages, especially Etruscan. Although the whole world calls Atlas as Atlas, he says that it's Malta. But you should have requested from him further explanation of this mysterious claim, which seems to imply that he has a notion of his own about the matter, if he would only tell, and entirely convince the rest of us, besides you, but if only he had chose to be consistent and intelligible. Nikas cannot have it, like you, both ways either. He insinuates that the names given by Plato of Poseidon's sons are to be regarded as Etruscan names, and read backwards (right to left). Apart that it's only possible supernaturally, to insinuate that Plato hid a special clue in assisting posterity in locating Atlantis to a more specific location than that already given by him. It is just mere imagination, and not Plato's instructions that one should read the names as being Etruscan. And it is imagination run amok to insinuate that Plato meant to indicate the specific name of “Malta,” which this notion can easily be refuted by the fact that the name, “Malta,” was not even given and used for those tiny 3 specs of land, until well after Plato was long dead. Is Nikas saying that Plato was some kind of prophet and an oracle projecting future events; the future use of the name Malta? But, just using logic, why does Nikas confines his reading to only Atlas in “Etruscan” to make it read  MALTA, and using Greek for his twin, Eumelus, even if we accept his justification for the “S” being an “M” in the name Atlas? Why not read all the other Atlantian names backwards too? And more importantly, what are the meaning of all those names given by Plato, such as Cleito, Evenor, Leucippe, Ampheres, Evaemon, Mneseus, etc., in Etruscan, or Greek, or better yet, in Egyptian, as they were initially translated, and how do they relate to the further assisting in fixing a location of Atlantis, if that was Plato's intention? And where in Plato's original writings does he point out these specific directions to the reader, for locating Atlantis more precisely? But if anyone wants to know about Plato's/Socrates' knowledge and skill in etymology, then they should read the Cratylus, which would go a long way in understanding these things better.  Logically, why would anyone, just like Nikas and you, Sean, "raise" the trophy when the "battle" has not even begun? When Atlantis is also, physically, raised from the abyss, as it was, verbally, raised from oblivion, then and only then let any boast at will, and, proudly, and happily claim the victory and the trophy.     

Wow, just like those despicable televangelists that are making money off God, I now see that Atlantis is also another avenue for that type of business. Congratulations are in order for fellow bloggers, present and past, those few with enough ingenuity and entrepreneurship skills in attracting, yet, another set of gullible audience, if they are successful at this. I would say that they have captured the very essence of what Plato/Socrates despised most, sophism, and their rhetoric. And anyone that tries to sell this stuff for profit is none other than a sophist, who neither knows nor allows others to know the truth about Atlantis, by passing on to them completely imaginative, and most speculative, base and unholy junk! If they had been honest and sincere persons on this business of Atlantis, and used logic, as intended by Plato, they would go elsewhere for moneymaking; preferably pursuing an honest business. And I do not mean you Sean, unless you too are planning to market Atlantis for profit.
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senator Bam
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« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2015, 01:33:33 am »


Desiree: we have rewritten and added a section/chapter on the ships & seafaring objection. http://lifetradition.webs.com/atlantis.htm

Hermocrates: you don't happen to be my [friend?] T---- do you? I wondered at the very first meeting here, forgot and just remembered.
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Hermocrates
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« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2015, 06:41:22 am »


Desiree: we have rewritten and added a section/chapter on the ships & seafaring objection. http://lifetradition.webs.com/atlantis.htm

Hermocrates: you don't happen to be my [friend?] T---- do you? I wondered at the very first meeting here, forgot and just remembered.


Sean, I'm surprised at you, and also feel sad that you don't consider me a friend anymore, if you ever did. However, you are a friend to me, nonetheless. But, you should reconsider our relationship, just as much as reconsidering your hypothesis on Atlantis. As far as your Atlantis and my opinion and suggestions to you, you should look at it in a positive way, as I have already told you previously. Because only a friend would go on the limb, risking scorn for making you aware of a possible inconsistency of your work, which could only help you, if you correct it. Look at this way, would you be mad at me, if I pointed out to you that your pant's zipper was not closed, as you walk around in public?
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Hermocrates
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« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2015, 03:25:14 pm »


Hermocrates: you don't happen to be my [friend?] T---- do you? I wondered at the very first meeting here, forgot and just remembered.


Senator Bam, is your own speculation of Atlantis the same as the link I've listed below, and are you associated with Mr. Allen and his proposition in any way, shape, or form?

http://www.atlantisbolivia.org/beyond24points.htm
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