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The "Great Plain" of Atlantis - was it in Doggerland?

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Thunderhaw Decorah
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« on: March 29, 2014, 03:57:24 pm »

The "Great Plain" of Atlantis - was it in Doggerland?
The Atlantis of Jean Deruelle
The "true heart of Europe"





It was inevitable that Doggerland (See: Doggerland lost), the part of the North Sea which was left dry for several thousand years after the end of the last ice age, should come to be considered as one more possible location for Plato's Atlantis. Doggerland stretched all the way from the east coast of England and Scotland to Denmark and supported a thriving mesolithic population. "It was the true heart of Europe," says Richard Bates, geochemist at St Andrews University in Scotland. It struggled for several millennia against the rising sea levels, then was submerged in a sudden catastrophe at a date estimated between 6200 B.C. and 5500 B.C. (Maybe caused by, or connected to the Störegga Landslide). Robert Graves himself had briefly considered the area of shallows known as Dogger Bank as a possible location for Atlantis, before dismissing it on grounds of distance.

As it happens, more than a decade before geologists focused attention on Doggerland at a 2012 meeting of the British Royal Society, a Frenchman, Jean Deruelle, had published a book making a strongly argumented case for the notoriously elusive "Great Plain" of Atlantis having been situated on now submerged land in the North Sea. He published his hypotheses in 1999, in a book called "L'Atlantide des Mégalithes," as part of a broader examination of the spread of megalithic cultures and little studied West to East movements of populations. The book was published by a reputable publisher of historic books, but received scant attention.

Jean Deruelle was born in 1915 in Longueville (Nord) and studied at the elite French Ecole Polytechnique. He was the CEO of the French coal mining company, "Les Houillères de Lorraine." During his retirement, he indulged his life-long passion for Brittany and the megalithic civilizations of Europe. He died two years after the publication of "L'Atlantide des Mégalithes."

The location of the "Great Plain" has always been one of the biggest stumbling blocks for any Atlantis identification. Deruelle, an engineer and a geologist by profession, offers a hypothesis that is rational, highly precise, and based on his areas of expertise. No other hypothesis than Deruelle's tackles so credibly the most outlandish elements in Plato's description of Atlantis: the description of a vast plain, surrounded by a man-made ditch, 180 meters broad and thirty meters deep, large enough to circulate supertankers: it was not a ditch, but a dyke, build over centuries to protect a large part of Doggerland against the slowly rising waters of the North Sea... As for the literary form of his book, he chose a lighthearted approach, keeping to a semi-fictional threat of a wide-eyed, naive amateur, a character by the name of Thomas, who is learning as he goes along, and reporting to a chorus of bemused and sceptical relatives and friends.

When he is finally ready to sum up for them his new theory of Atlantis, he gathers them in his home in Platonic fashion, for a "Symposium," or a traditional French dinner.

We surmise that the reader is well informed of Plato's story of Atlantis and of its problems. All those who do not dismiss Plato's tale of Atlantis as a mere backdrop for politic-fiction, devoid of grounding in reality, know that there is a fundamental contradiction: because he presents the Atlanteans as engaged in a war of aggression against Athens and Egypt, one must chose either to follow the dating of the event as reported by Plato, who situates the catastrophic end of Atlantis around 9700 B.C., but then one must give up the idea of a war with Athens and Egypt as fiction, as neither of these powers existed at the time; or one choses to follow him on the legendary-historical war story but then, one must dismiss his dates.

Deruelle, who needs to have his Atlantis contemporaneous with the great megalithic civilizations, choses the dates of 7000 BC and 2600 BC for its beginning and its end. Earlier dates might have suited his thesis better, as the drowning of Doggerland is dated some 2500 years earlier, but this late date gives him an opportunity for interesting conjectures about the respective evolutions of the oceans levels and of the ground levels in this area of the North Sea over the past 20,000 years.

That astonishingly advanced civilizations can have existed elsewhere at the time which Plato (or the Egyptian priests who are his source) indicates for Atlantis, is being proven right now by the archaeological digs at Göbekli Tepe in Turkey, should their dating at 9200 BC indeed hold. But these, which have left the archaeological world dumbfounded, have come to our knowledge only recently, and Deruelle would surely have been enthusiastic, had he lived to hear about them
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Thunderhaw Decorah
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2014, 04:00:16 pm »



Go to: "Doggerland Lost" on Q-Mag.org

Now, to make straight the aspect and dimensions of the "Great Plain," which we are referring to, according to Plato:

this plain had a level surface and was as a whole rectangular in shape, being 3000 stades (530 km = 330 miles) long on either side and 2000 stades (360 km = 225 miles) wide at its center, reckoning upwards from the sea. And this region, [Critias - 118b] all along the island, faced towards the South and was sheltered from the Northern blasts. And the mountains which surrounded it were at that time celebrated as surpassing all that now exist in number, magnitude and beauty; for they had upon them many rich villages of country folk, and streams and lakes and meadows which furnished ample nutriment to all the animals both tame and wild, and timber of various sizes and descriptions, abundantly sufficient for the needs of all and every craft. [Critias - 118c] Now as a result of natural forces, together with the labors of many kings which extended over many ages, the condition of the plain was this. It was originally a quadrangle, rectilinear for the most part, and elongated; and what it lacked of this shape they made right by means of a trench dug round about it. Now, as regards the depth of this trench and its breadth and length, it seems incredible that it should be so large as the account states, considering that it was made by hand, and in addition to all the other operations, but none the less we must report what we heard: it was dug out to the depth of a plethrum (ca. 30 m = almost exactly 100 feet) and to a uniform breadth of a stade (180 m = 196 yards), and since it was dug round the whole plain [Critias - 118d] its consequent length was 10,000 stades (1800 kilometers = 1120 miles).

If the dimensions of the Plain must appear awesome, nobody in his right mind can believe the veracity of these later numbers, relating to a man-made ditch! These are so far "off the chart" that they understandably undermine the credibility of all the other indications. Only Deruelle - or his alter ego Thomas - succeeds, at least, in making sense of them.

In front of his guests, gathered for apéritif, Thomas unfolds a map. The first task is to find a rectangle of 530 km by 360 km which could have stayed out of water until around 2600 BC.

Here is what north-western Europe looked like in 18,000 BC, at the end of an ice age which had lasted 70,000 years. You see, the doted line shows the present coastlines. The areas covered by the sea are in grey. The formation of ice at the expense of the oceans brought down the sea level by 120m.
We can see that the sea is 100 km to 150 km away from the present coastline of Brittany and Ireland. The English Channel and the Irish Sea were dry, but space is lacking there for our Great Plain. On the other hand, we find that the North Sea is dry all the way to the latitude of Scotland, 800km from the Netherlands, on a breadth of 500km separating England from Denmark.

A friend exclaims about the extreme flatness of this uncovered land:

"That's hardly believable! A one hundred meter rise can be swallowed in two minutes by car, and here, one would have to cover 800 km!"

"Unbelievable, indeed! All the way from the Netherlands, the ground rises only by a hand's breadth every kilometer! This is an exceptional 'geological case!' But it responds admirably to Plato's description of a Great Plain ‘flat and of a uniform level.'"

"No wonder man would have settled in such a vast territory!
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Thunderhaw Decorah
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2014, 04:00:18 pm »



Go to: "Doggerland Lost" on Q-Mag.org

Now, to make straight the aspect and dimensions of the "Great Plain," which we are referring to, according to Plato:

this plain had a level surface and was as a whole rectangular in shape, being 3000 stades (530 km = 330 miles) long on either side and 2000 stades (360 km = 225 miles) wide at its center, reckoning upwards from the sea. And this region, [Critias - 118b] all along the island, faced towards the South and was sheltered from the Northern blasts. And the mountains which surrounded it were at that time celebrated as surpassing all that now exist in number, magnitude and beauty; for they had upon them many rich villages of country folk, and streams and lakes and meadows which furnished ample nutriment to all the animals both tame and wild, and timber of various sizes and descriptions, abundantly sufficient for the needs of all and every craft. [Critias - 118c] Now as a result of natural forces, together with the labors of many kings which extended over many ages, the condition of the plain was this. It was originally a quadrangle, rectilinear for the most part, and elongated; and what it lacked of this shape they made right by means of a trench dug round about it. Now, as regards the depth of this trench and its breadth and length, it seems incredible that it should be so large as the account states, considering that it was made by hand, and in addition to all the other operations, but none the less we must report what we heard: it was dug out to the depth of a plethrum (ca. 30 m = almost exactly 100 feet) and to a uniform breadth of a stade (180 m = 196 yards), and since it was dug round the whole plain [Critias - 118d] its consequent length was 10,000 stades (1800 kilometers = 1120 miles).

If the dimensions of the Plain must appear awesome, nobody in his right mind can believe the veracity of these later numbers, relating to a man-made ditch! These are so far "off the chart" that they understandably undermine the credibility of all the other indications. Only Deruelle - or his alter ego Thomas - succeeds, at least, in making sense of them.

In front of his guests, gathered for apéritif, Thomas unfolds a map. The first task is to find a rectangle of 530 km by 360 km which could have stayed out of water until around 2600 BC.

Here is what north-western Europe looked like in 18,000 BC, at the end of an ice age which had lasted 70,000 years. You see, the doted line shows the present coastlines. The areas covered by the sea are in grey. The formation of ice at the expense of the oceans brought down the sea level by 120m.
We can see that the sea is 100 km to 150 km away from the present coastline of Brittany and Ireland. The English Channel and the Irish Sea were dry, but space is lacking there for our Great Plain. On the other hand, we find that the North Sea is dry all the way to the latitude of Scotland, 800km from the Netherlands, on a breadth of 500km separating England from Denmark.

A friend exclaims about the extreme flatness of this uncovered land:

"That's hardly believable! A one hundred meter rise can be swallowed in two minutes by car, and here, one would have to cover 800 km!"

"Unbelievable, indeed! All the way from the Netherlands, the ground rises only by a hand's breadth every kilometer! This is an exceptional 'geological case!' But it responds admirably to Plato's description of a Great Plain ‘flat and of a uniform level.'"

"No wonder man would have settled in such a vast territory!
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Thunderhaw Decorah
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 04:01:11 pm »

Go to: "Doggerland Lost" on Q-Mag.org

Now, to make straight the aspect and dimensions of the "Great Plain," which we are referring to, according to Plato:

this plain had a level surface and was as a whole rectangular in shape, being 3000 stades (530 km = 330 miles) long on either side and 2000 stades (360 km = 225 miles) wide at its center, reckoning upwards from the sea. And this region, [Critias - 118b] all along the island, faced towards the South and was sheltered from the Northern blasts. And the mountains which surrounded it were at that time celebrated as surpassing all that now exist in number, magnitude and beauty; for they had upon them many rich villages of country folk, and streams and lakes and meadows which furnished ample nutriment to all the animals both tame and wild, and timber of various sizes and descriptions, abundantly sufficient for the needs of all and every craft. [Critias - 118c] Now as a result of natural forces, together with the labors of many kings which extended over many ages, the condition of the plain was this. It was originally a quadrangle, rectilinear for the most part, and elongated; and what it lacked of this shape they made right by means of a trench dug round about it. Now, as regards the depth of this trench and its breadth and length, it seems incredible that it should be so large as the account states, considering that it was made by hand, and in addition to all the other operations, but none the less we must report what we heard: it was dug out to the depth of a plethrum (ca. 30 m = almost exactly 100 feet) and to a uniform breadth of a stade (180 m = 196 yards), and since it was dug round the whole plain [Critias - 118d] its consequent length was 10,000 stades (1800 kilometers = 1120 miles).

If the dimensions of the Plain must appear awesome, nobody in his right mind can believe the veracity of these later numbers, relating to a man-made ditch! These are so far "off the chart" that they understandably undermine the credibility of all the other indications. Only Deruelle - or his alter ego Thomas - succeeds, at least, in making sense of them.

In front of his guests, gathered for apéritif, Thomas unfolds a map. The first task is to find a rectangle of 530 km by 360 km which could have stayed out of water until around 2600 BC.

Here is what north-western Europe looked like in 18,000 BC, at the end of an ice age which had lasted 70,000 years. You see, the doted line shows the present coastlines. The areas covered by the sea are in grey. The formation of ice at the expense of the oceans brought down the sea level by 120m.
We can see that the sea is 100 km to 150 km away from the present coastline of Brittany and Ireland. The English Channel and the Irish Sea were dry, but space is lacking there for our Great Plain. On the other hand, we find that the North Sea is dry all the way to the latitude of Scotland, 800km from the Netherlands, on a breadth of 500km separating England from Denmark.

A friend exclaims about the extreme flatness of this uncovered land:

"That's hardly believable! A one hundred meter rise can be swallowed in two minutes by car, and here, one would have to cover 800 km!"

"Unbelievable, indeed! All the way from the Netherlands, the ground rises only by a hand's breadth every kilometer! This is an exceptional 'geological case!' But it responds admirably to Plato's description of a Great Plain ‘flat and of a uniform level.'"

"No wonder man would have settled in such a vast territory!
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Thunderhaw Decorah
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2014, 04:01:17 pm »

Go to: "Doggerland Lost" on Q-Mag.org

Now, to make straight the aspect and dimensions of the "Great Plain," which we are referring to, according to Plato:

this plain had a level surface and was as a whole rectangular in shape, being 3000 stades (530 km = 330 miles) long on either side and 2000 stades (360 km = 225 miles) wide at its center, reckoning upwards from the sea. And this region, [Critias - 118b] all along the island, faced towards the South and was sheltered from the Northern blasts. And the mountains which surrounded it were at that time celebrated as surpassing all that now exist in number, magnitude and beauty; for they had upon them many rich villages of country folk, and streams and lakes and meadows which furnished ample nutriment to all the animals both tame and wild, and timber of various sizes and descriptions, abundantly sufficient for the needs of all and every craft. [Critias - 118c] Now as a result of natural forces, together with the labors of many kings which extended over many ages, the condition of the plain was this. It was originally a quadrangle, rectilinear for the most part, and elongated; and what it lacked of this shape they made right by means of a trench dug round about it. Now, as regards the depth of this trench and its breadth and length, it seems incredible that it should be so large as the account states, considering that it was made by hand, and in addition to all the other operations, but none the less we must report what we heard: it was dug out to the depth of a plethrum (ca. 30 m = almost exactly 100 feet) and to a uniform breadth of a stade (180 m = 196 yards), and since it was dug round the whole plain [Critias - 118d] its consequent length was 10,000 stades (1800 kilometers = 1120 miles).

If the dimensions of the Plain must appear awesome, nobody in his right mind can believe the veracity of these later numbers, relating to a man-made ditch! These are so far "off the chart" that they understandably undermine the credibility of all the other indications. Only Deruelle - or his alter ego Thomas - succeeds, at least, in making sense of them.

In front of his guests, gathered for apéritif, Thomas unfolds a map. The first task is to find a rectangle of 530 km by 360 km which could have stayed out of water until around 2600 BC.

Here is what north-western Europe looked like in 18,000 BC, at the end of an ice age which had lasted 70,000 years. You see, the doted line shows the present coastlines. The areas covered by the sea are in grey. The formation of ice at the expense of the oceans brought down the sea level by 120m.
We can see that the sea is 100 km to 150 km away from the present coastline of Brittany and Ireland. The English Channel and the Irish Sea were dry, but space is lacking there for our Great Plain. On the other hand, we find that the North Sea is dry all the way to the latitude of Scotland, 800km from the Netherlands, on a breadth of 500km separating England from Denmark.

A friend exclaims about the extreme flatness of this uncovered land:

"That's hardly believable! A one hundred meter rise can be swallowed in two minutes by car, and here, one would have to cover 800 km!"

"Unbelievable, indeed! All the way from the Netherlands, the ground rises only by a hand's breadth every kilometer! This is an exceptional 'geological case!' But it responds admirably to Plato's description of a Great Plain ‘flat and of a uniform level.'"

"No wonder man would have settled in such a vast territory!
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Thunderhaw Decorah
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2014, 04:02:21 pm »

http://www.q-mag.org/the-great-plain-of-atlantis-was-it-in-doggerland.html


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