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Great Pyramid at Giza Vandalized to 'Prove' Conspiracy Theory

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Arcturus
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« on: February 24, 2014, 10:25:30 pm »


Great Pyramid at Giza Vandalized to 'Prove' Conspiracy Theory

LiveScience.com
By By Benjamin Radford, Live Science Bad Science Columnist February 19, 2014 8:03 AM

Great Pyramid at Giza Vandalized to 'Prove' Conspiracy Theory
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Dominique Goerlitz and Stefan Erdmann who visited the Egyptian pyramids in April 2013 now face criminal …

Two German men who visited the Egyptian pyramids in April 2013 now face criminal charges for their attempt to prove their "alternative history" conspiracy theories through vandalism. The men, Dominique Goerlitz and Stefan Erdmann, were joined by a third German, a filmmaker who accompanied them to document their "discoveries."

The men were allowed to enter the inner chambers of the Great Pyramid at Giza normally off-limits to the public and restricted to authorized archaeologists and Egyptologists. The group reportedly took several items from the pyramids, including taking samples of a cartouche (identifying inscription) of the pharaoh Khufu, also known as Cheops. Goerlitz and Erdmann, who are not archaeologists but have instead been described as "hobbyists," allegedly smuggled the artifacts out of the country in violation of strict antiquities laws, according to news reports.

In addition to the three Germans, six Egyptians are being held in connection with the case, including several guards and inspectors from the Egyptian Antiquities Ministry who allowed the men into the pyramid. Tourism, one of Egypt's most important industries, has dropped dramatically in recent years due to social and political unrest. Tour-agency owners — including one of the men recently arrested in connection with this case — are often willing to bend or break the rules if it means satisfying wealthy foreigners, news reports suggest. The German government expressed outrage over the acts, and categorically stated the men were private citizens and not in any way affiliated with its German Archaeological Institute. [Photos of the German hobbyists and Great Pyramid]

Trying to prove a conspiracy

Goerlitz and Erdmann acknowledged their acts, and even went so far as to post photographs and videos of themselves vandalizing the archaeological sites. However, they claimed their goal was a noble one: to prove their "alternative history" conspiracy theory that the pyramids were not built by ancient Egyptians.

The men are apparently convinced the cartouche identifying Khufu as the creator of the Great Pyramid at Giza is a fake, and they hoped to do an analysis on the pigments to prove they were not as old as the pyramids themselves. In essence, they claimed, pharaoh Khufu simply put his name on (and took credit for) pyramids that had been built thousands of years earlier by people from the legendary city of Atlantis. They accuse mainstream archaeologists of covering up — or willfully ignoring — evidence pointing to non-Egyptian origins of the pyramids.
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Great Pyramid at Giza Vandalized to 'Prove' …
The men are apparently convinced the cartouche identifying Khufu as the creator of the Great Pyramid …

The conspiracy theories that Goerlitz and Erdmann endorse did not appear in a vacuum; instead, they have been widely promoted by best-selling authors such as Erich von Däniken, who wrote "Chariots of the Gods?" first published in 1968. Such authors claim the true builders of the pyramids were not ancient Egyptians but instead others, like extraterrestrials or residents of the legendary Atlantis. While "alternative history" and "ancient astronaut" theorists such as von Däniken do not explicitly endorse vandalism of any Egyptian sites, Goerlitz and Erdmann's actions were clearly driven by belief in such theories. (Ancient-astronaut theorists propose, unscientifically, that extraterrestrials intelligently designed humans.)

The true pyramid builders

As physicist Wolfgang Pauli famously said about a ludicrous idea, "It's not even wrong." There are countless glaring fallacies in Goerlitz and Erdmann's wild theory, beginning with the fact that Atlantis never existed; it was first described in two dialogues by Plato — the "Timaeus" and the "Critias" — written around 330 B.C. The Atlantis discussed by Plato did not refer to any actual ancient empire, because the dialogues were fictional stories and fables. Suggesting that people from Plato's Atlantis built the pyramids is like saying people from Tolkien's Middle Earth built the pyramids, or inhabitants of Superman's home planet of Krypton built the pyramids — it makes no sense, because they're fictional characters. [Top 10 Wild Conspiracy Theories]

Aside from that, there's clear evidence that ancient Egyptians did, indeed, build the pyramids. Ken Feder, an archaeologist and professor of anthropology at Central Connecticut State University and author of "Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology" (McGraw-Hill, 2013) takes a dim view of such baseless ideas.

"Here's an archaeological shocker: Ancient Egyptians built the pyramids," Feder told Live Science. "Contrary to what some purveyors of fantasy maintain, the technological skills necessary to construct the pyramids were not unknown in ancient Egypt. In actual fact, the Great Pyramid at Giza was the culmination of a lengthy, multigenerational, evolutionary process."

Archaeologists have found several early, failed attempts to build the pyramids, Feder noted. "Early attempts at true, geometric pyramid burial monuments resulted in spectacular screw-ups, including a 'collapsed' pyramid (the slope of the face of the monument was too steep)," Feder said. "In another attempt, cracks appeared in the lower part of the pyramid, again because the slope was too steep and one corner of the pyramid was positioned on a soft, sandy base."

"Finally, the Egyptian builders were not above taking credit for their labors; workers sometimes actually incised dates onto pyramid blocks, and one piece of graffiti in a chamber in the Great Pyramid bears the phrase, 'We did this with pride in the name of our great King Khnum-Khuf,' another name for the Pharaoh Khufu," he added.

In the end, "There is no controversy concerning who built the pyramids," Feder said. "Anyone caught trying to rewrite this history through theft or subterfuge isn't doing archaeology. They're breaking the law and insulting the memory of the thousands of ancient workers whose labors produced one of the wonders of the ancient world."

Benjamin Radford is deputy editor of "Skeptical Inquirer" science magazine and author of six books, including "The Martians Have Landed! A History of Media Panics and Hoaxes." His website is www.BenjaminRadford.com.

Follow us @livescience, Facebook & Google+. Original article on Live Science.

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Arcturus
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2014, 10:28:28 pm »



Dominique Goerlitz and Stefan Erdmann who visited the Egyptian pyramids in April 2013 now face criminal charges for their attempt to prove their "alternative history" conspiracy theories through vandalism.
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Arcturus
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2014, 10:29:07 pm »




The men are apparently convinced the cartouche identifying Khufu as the creator of the Great Pyramid at Giza is a fake.
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Arcturus
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2014, 10:45:47 pm »

 1,292 Comments My Comments
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    [AMW]
    AMW 4 days ago
    1
    10

    Strange sort of logic...
    If you don't know how something was done or can't say how it happened, it wasn't done, or didn't happen. I wonder what would happen if we had that attitude in solving crime.
    Sometimes it takes time to figure out how something occurred, and we do that by gathering evidence. Sometimes we get all the evidence we need, and sometimes we don't. Some cases are left unsolved, and some are closed years later when missing pieces of evidences turn up.
    I am sure people can figure out the rest of the comparison....
    Collapse Replies (12) Reply
        [Skeptical Believer]
        Skeptical Believer 4 days ago
        5
        11

        AMW, in this case, scientists, with almost no evidence to back them up, come to conclusions based solely on what they believe happened. Even when evidence is shown that the pyramids were never built as tombs, scientists/archeologists will not waver from this pre-conceived notion.

        Scientists believe the Great Pyramid was built under the orders of Pharaoh Khufu based simply on a few hieroglyphs with his name (most likely forged by Col. Howard-Vyse when he couldn't find anything inside it), and because the necropolis and other buildings around the pyramids were built in that time-frame. This is akin to saying the Colliseum was built in the 1800s because a bistro across the street was built then! Yeah, yeah, that's an oversimplification, but the analogy is correct. And sure, the Greek historian Herodotus claimed it was built by Cheops (supposedly the Greek name for Khufu?, but many details point to him being a completely different person). But, Herodotus was well known to falsify his writings and histories, so he is suspect at best... plus all other historian accounts of the 'builder of the Great Pyramid' contradict one another.

        There are far too many unanswered questions if you go by consensus science, but almost none if you use Christopher Dunn's theories on the Great Pyramid. Do some research instead of being a consensus sheep.
        More
        [AMW]
        AMW 4 days ago
        2
        7

        Any single theory that claims to answer all the questions, when it comes to something like the Great Pyramid, would be somewhat suspect already, as far as I am concerned. After all this time, it is unlikely that we will ever have all the answers. It's been 5000 years.
        And just because I don't agree with your theory, does not mean I am sheep. I could accuse you of the same. Of willingly believing any controversial theory that goes against the consensus, simply because you are a rebel, without regard for the evidence. But what do I know? You are a perfect stranger- and I lack any evidence, not to mention proof to make any statement of the sort.
        Get my point?
        More
        [Skeptical Believer]
        Skeptical Believer 4 days ago
        2
        4

        Being skeptical of a theory that you don't fully understand is fine (I wouldn't expect anything else), but virtually dismissing a theory simply because it answers 'too many of the questions'Huh That is illogical! So you would believe a theory that answers NONE of the questions as opposed to one that answers nearly all, simply because the ones who have no answers are 'esteemed archeologists' (and the one with the answers is merely a professional mechanical engineer)? Wow...

        And, I didn't say you were a sheep, but said don't be one. Do your own research and make up your own mind. I really don't care if you don't believe what I said. Good on you! But, do it for the right reasons. As for your accusations to me? You are wrong. I in no way 'willingly believe any controversial theory that goes against the consensus'. Sure, I watch "Ancient Aliens", but there are MANY times when I have to throw the BS flag! I believe what makes sense to me, and I believe it not without regard for the evidence, but BECAUSE of the evidence. And the evidence in this case glaringly points to the pyramids NOT being tombs for the pharaohs, or even built by/for the pharaohs.

        Let me ask you this: If a well-known archeologist poses a theory based on purely circumstantial evidence (the 'fact' that the pyramids are near structures that are known to have been built in Khufu's time), but which does not and can not answer even the simplest questions, would you believe it at face value because he/she is an 'expert' and should know what they're talking about? And, if a complete unknown, who is not an Egyptologist but IS a mechanical engineer (and has been for decades), advances a theory based on empirical evidence and which DOES answer most of the questions posed, not just the simple ones, would you be skeptical simply because he's not the right 'expert'?

        Get my point?
        More
        [jack]
        jack 4 days ago
        0
        4

        A phrase by Charles Bukowski: "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubt while the stupid one are full of confidence" I'm not saying anything either way. I just feel that this could help you both in your arguments.
        More
        [pepe.k]
        pepe.k 4 days ago
        0
        0

        @ Jack....what a great phrase....could not be more accurate...
        ...and unfortunately...true.
        More
        [BRIAN]
        BRIAN 4 days ago
        2
        0

        just get on with the research dopes.
        More
        [BRIAN]
        BRIAN 4 days ago
        2
        0

        Jack well said my old dad was a college lecturer and had difficulty learning to drive, while some of my #$%$ mates went on no problem, but had serious accidents. Well said mate.
        More
        [David]
        David 4 days ago
        0
        1

        The pyramids of giza are not the only pyramids on earth.There are many of them surrounding the globe. The start of the disclosure project will be starting during the next 3 weeks. It should answer many of your question.
        More
        [James]
        James 4 days ago
        0
        2

        Those so-called Scientists / Archeologists who will not or ( Refuse To ) waver from this pre-conceived notion have been " Trained " or Brainwashed by their so-called Scientists / Archeologists Teachers into Not Asking Any Questions Period, or for Deviating from the " Norm " which has been Deliberately Perpetrated by the
        " Establishment " which has been " Wrong " from the beginning of so-called Archeology. ;-0

        We "Little People " have been Deliberately Lied To from Kindergarten on up and Pacified about The Pyramids and just how they were Created - Built, and the So-Called Scientists / Archeologists and whomever is " Really In Charge " Does Not Want The Truth To Come To Light because if it does, it will " Shatter " Every Faux So-Called Religion which are All Based on and have been Built Up Upon Lies and Faux, Made-Up Beliefs. ;-0

        I believe that British Christopher Dunn's theories on the Great Pyramid may be True, especially the theories regarding how the Stone Statues and the Tall Obelisks had been Carved and Engraved and made Using Ancient Power Tools, which had to have been Powered by Some Kind of Power Source back in Ancient Times, and in Dendera , the Underground light Bulb Carving which Very Clearly Shows what looks like a Light Bulb, with Wires coming out of it, going to some kind of Box which looks like a Battery or other kind of Power Source on the wall there, and that the Great Pyramid, and Many Other Pyramids around Earth May Have Been Some Kind of Ancient, Pre-Egyptian Power Source (s) or Generators which somehow kept Earths Climate, and / or our Planets Earthquakes in Ancient Times in check or quiet.

        People. Kindly Wake Up and Question Everything because We Have All Been Lied To and Dumbed Down for So Long Now and You Must Wake Up and do Your Own Research and Question Everything and Try And Learn As Much As You Can during Your Lives.

        Trust No One and Question Everything !!! :-0
        More
        [James]
        James 4 days ago
        0
        2

        Damn Right !!!
        More
        [Matt the Smith Machine]
        Matt the Smith Machine 3 days ago
        1
        1

        They have all the evidence they need to draw the picture of history, why would they waste their time on a wild goose chase looking for Atlantis when they have evidence suggesting that it is totally fictional. Plus I'm sure there have been hundreds of people pursuing Atlantis and to no avail.
        More
        [Nayland]
        Nayland 3 days ago
        0
        0

        Evidence - the key ingredient.
        we all know that the pyramids all over the word were built by dwarf eskimos who floated. we know they floated because no footprints of the builders have been found. and just look at the similarity between pyramids and igloos.
        More
    [Harrison J. Bounel]
    Harrison J. Bounel 3 days ago
    0
    0

    A true historical account should be reinforced, not weakened, by continuing research and analysis.
    More
    Reply
    [JansenB]
    JansenB 2 days ago
    1
    2

    This article is not very balanced, and makes the mistake of calling alternative origins as a conspiracy theory.. do some better research and maybe present both sides of the story, instead of your smug opinions
    More
    Expand Replies (1) Reply
    [Bad Habit]
    Bad Habit 3 days ago
    3
    12

    I just find it interesting that the docks of all 3 of the Great Pyramids end at the ancient dried up riverbed of the Nile........ that water last flowed through 30,000 years ago.

    If we have been around as a species at our current level of evolution for over 230,000 years, I find it difficult to believe that we have only *just* attained civilization in the last 15 thousand or so years.

    I'm not ready to dismiss a previous Golden Age of Mankind, quite yet.
    A previous Golden Age that fell utterly and completely, giving rise to the plethora of mythologies that abound around the world today and throughout our current recorded history.

    Hey, a SciFi guy can ponder, can't he?
    More
    Reply
    [Will]
    Will 3 days ago
    3
    14

    Hard to believe a working physicist like Pauli is so dense as to declare Atlantis fictional just because it was mentioned in a Platonic dialogue that MAY have been fictional. Even if the story itself were fiction, most of the fictional stories ever written had events that took place in real cities and countries, and often involving real people's names as well. Also, there are a couple of good archaeological sites near the Straits of Gibraltar (where Plato said it was) that are quite likely to be Atlantis. Just because the people's abilities were exaggerated in the story doesn't mean the island itself never existed. MOST ancient stories and myths were based on someone or something real and then exaggerated out of proportion.
    Collapse Replies (6) Reply
        [Phoenix]
        Phoenix 3 days ago
        0
        1

        The Minoans!
        More
        [DEFAULT_USERNAME]
        Commenter 3 days ago
        3
        1

        Will, check out a book from the Apocrypher called "the book of Enoch" [Enoch apparently was Noah's great grandfather] also known as "the book of watchers". It speaks of giants with super human strength and also about aliens, this sounds as if it was possibly about Atlantis.....also in the ancient Vedic writings of India there are the same stories but told from a slightly different perspective........to add to this the article is totally inaccurate......Plato got his story of Atlantis from a Geek adventurer called Solon who the story was recounted to by learned men in Egypt who told him of his own nation's proud history in defeating the Atlantians in battle some ten thousand years prior............this article from yahoo is full of arrogance misleading information , lies and propaganda.......yahoo is an American corporate entity and as such cannot be trusted to give us accurate information......the best that we can hope to do is read between the lines........from where i am standing, what i see is that many people are waking up to the lies that have been told to us, many have now traveled and have made their own examinations thus finding that there is much more to our history than what we have been told.....this article is just an attempt to fight back by some of the liars and fools,.....an attempt at vilification and ridicule of those who dare to question their entirely inconsistent stories.
        More
        [Matt the Smith Machine]
        Matt the Smith Machine 3 days ago
        3
        0

        "Hard to believe a working physicist like Pauli is so dense as to declare Atlantis fictional just because it was mentioned in a Platonic dialogue that MAY have been fictional".
        I don't think Paulis is alone in this belief. Did you not know that the writings and teachings of Plato has been analysed and deciphered by thousands much smarter than you, over hundreds of years?
        Thousands of people know about Atlantis, if a small grain of evidence suggested that it existed than people would be looking all over the world for it and its contents.
        [Nicholas]
        Nicholas 3 days ago
        1
        0

        You realize I am sure that in Plato's story the civilization of Atlantis invaded Athens. Now as meticulous as the Athenians were at recording their history, don't you think that there just might be more hard evidence out there that proves they existed?
        More
        [DEFAULT_USERNAME]
        Commenter 2 days ago
        0
        0

        Atlantis was reputed to have gone under in a single terrible day and a single terrible night, the earth moved off of it's axis and a whole bunch of animals were flash frozen in the deep arctic......say for example that atlantis was on the continent that we now call antarctica......how much evidence would you hope to find after a twelve and a half thousand year freeze that was preceded by catastrophic earth quakes and volcanos?......as for your remark Matt, how do you know how intelligent Will is?.....too many ignorant and arrogant assumptions on your part Matt which is a bad reflection on your own intelligence or more to the point the lack of any......if we were all to think as you do then the chances are that hom sap may never have come down out of the trees.
        [DEFAULT_USERNAME]
        Commenter 2 days ago
        0
        1

        Nicholas Atlantis was reputed to have gone under some 12,500 years ago....there is much evidence of highly evolved societies having existed at such a time but the church has done much to hide and discredit this information as it does not tally with their story of the world only being 5,700 years old. the archeologists also tend to get stuck in their egos and dogmas.....there are many books and many facts that throw their "findings" into extreme doubt.
        More
    [Clark]
    Clark 3 days ago
    4
    8

    I believe that Atlantis, or an island and incident such as described by Plato, did exist, and was based on fact. Popular belief holds that Atlantis was actually Santorini, or Thera and also Thira, a Greek volcanic Island that exploded in one of history's most powerful explosions ever, about 1600 BCE. Archaeological digs have uncovered several cities frozen in time, with advanced architecture and plumbing (multi story houses framed in wood, and running water 2nd story flush toilets. Similar advancements have also been discovered on Crete, believed to be the capitol of the Atlantis civilization with its palace at Knossos.
    The Egyptians called the Atlanteans the Sea People, and called them the name something like the Kim Chee (my memory may be far off here, but it's my best recollection). Deep within the underground walls in Giza is an Egyptian statement stating that the Egyptians traded with the Kim Chee, who came from an island that had concentric circular water channels with the capitol in the center, and had many of the housing, plumbing and other advancements mentioned in Platio's writing of Atlantis. On that same wall in Giza, is a mural, showing a magnificent city, with concentric water channels, and drawings of the Atlanteans jumping over Bulls and swimming with Dolphins, identical to murals found on Crete, who's inhabitants we now call Minoans, because of the celebration and worship of the Bull, by the Minoans.
    Plato stated in his works that he learned of the fateful end of Atlanteans and Atlantis, who's inhabitants and island disappeared under the sea within a single day. Plato's teacher, Socrates, passed the story of Atlantis on to Plato, which was originally passed on centuries earlier from Solon, who learned the story from the ancient Egyptians. Recently, within the several years, new archaeologists, following the literal description of the location of Atlantis, discovered that the Bay of Cadiz, on coastal southern Spain, suffered a major tsunami thousands of years past in antiquity, which sunk what appears to be an island in the Bay of Cadiz, with concentric circles as channels in an island which appears to be identical to that described by Plato, and similar to Santorini, now sunken under mountains of mud caused by liquefaction during the earthquake and tsunami that sank it. They have found further evidence that the original island if Atlantis may have been in the Bay of Cadiz, based upon a replica miniature city of Atlantis found up in the higher desert of Spain, which shows the identical city as that drawn in the murals found in Knossos and Giza. The video production showing these discoveries is fascinating, and further establishes that Atlantis, actually called another name, which escapes me at the moment, but is identified in the video and shows the miniature model of Atlantis, is/was very real indeed.
    The Egyptians to Solon to Socrates to Plato, with evidence of the advancements, and plumbing, and murals in Giza and Knossos, causes me to believe that Atlantis existed beyond the Pillars of Hercules (the Rock of Gibraltar) on the coast of Spain, and that city as well as that of Santorini and Crete, were destroyed by earthquakes and volcanic activity, perhaps not with Cadiz and Santorini at the same time, but who knows. I believe that the Atlantean's had several cities in their sea Empire as the Sea People, or the Kim Chee, who were, according to the script written in Giza, were the only advanced civilization that the Egyptians would trade with, calling all others barbarians.
    Makes perfect sense to me.
    Collapse Replies (4) Reply
        [Paul]
        Paul 3 days ago
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        Have you got a link to the video production/documentry, i'd be interested in having a watch?
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        [Mr Dave]
        Mr Dave 3 days ago
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        0

        I agree with Clark 100%..
        Paul:Try BBC 4 there was a program last month call Ancient Greece with Bettany Hughes..
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        [DEFAULT_USERNAME]
        Commenter 3 days ago
        1
        0

        look more deeply and you will find that prior to 12,500 years ago there were many advanced societies around the world......there are the giant stone ruins of a city 35 meters under water off of the coast of Okinawa, there are the ruins off of the coast of Bimini Island in the Bahamas, there are the pyramids of Giza, Nazca, Tikal, Easter Island, Tihuanaku, Teotihuacan etc etc and then there are the ancient sanskrit writings of India that describe gods in flying machines and battles using what sound like modern day smart weapons and even more advanced society than we have today........what some think is described as the cause of the destruction of all of this was an asteroid hitting the earth....the geological evidence for this is the most interesting part of it, take for example that magnetic north and direct north are not the same thing, then there are the mamoths and buffalo who were flash frozen in the ice of Alaska and Siberia, also the earth is not so completely round as we once thought it was, then there was the end of the last ice age that came at about the same time as all of this......check out a book by Graham Hancock called "fingerprints of the gods" and also look out for a video called "revelation of the pyramids" for a much bigger perspective of what may have transpired.
        [Nayland]
        Nayland 3 days ago
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        look more deeply and you will find that there is no (repeat NO) evidence of "advanced civilizations" 12000 plus years ago. the stones at imini are a natural formation there are ruins of places all over the world but none of them date to 10000 bce.
        More
    [Mr Amused]
    Mr Amused 4 days ago
    3
    12

    There's a feeling one gets when standing before massive structures of LONG ago. The eons of time and the centuries of history somehow leap out at you, pass through your body and mind and impact upon you in a way that generates an epiphany of spirit and puts one in context. We are but a grain of sand in the hourglass of time. It moves you.

    But, unfortunately, there are some that go way beyond this feeling and, instead of just studying and appreciating amazing wonders of the world, take note of this feeling and then lose their s--t and their minds as well. They impute conspiracies and alien aspects to pretty much everything they can't explain simply. Then some of them do what these idiots did with the pyramid. The lost civilization of Atlantis! C'mon, lol! Smiley

    Anyway, this condition isn't all that surprising, right? The general population has a certain percentage of nuts and that percentage may be trending up a bit but since the total population is rising the numbers of these wacko's is increasing massively. And the internet has given them the forum of forums to inundate us with their scary opinions and behaviors. FACT!!!! Wink
    Collapse Replies (6) Reply
        [Tamez]
        Tamez 4 days ago
        0
        1

        I agree with the first part of your statement.. but come on.. you and I are proof of alien life in the universe. 40 years ago we went to the moon in the next few hundred years we'll visit mars then slowly but surely, because of our curiosity, we'll go everywhere.

        Just imagine if our species is still existing 10,000 years from now. We'll be planet hopping like it ain't sht, looking for other intelligent life, because we're curious. And if we met life and they were behind on the evolutionary scale, why wouldn't we help them?
        More
        [Mr Amused]
        Mr Amused 3 days ago
        0
        2

        Nice sentiment at the end Tamez.
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        [JansenB]
        JansenB 2 days ago
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        why do I feel your the one who is a wacko.. For some reason you have a problem with two people examining the facts and doing some experiments to test the validity of previous analysis with updated technology.. if the world was run with the mindset your employing we'd all be forced to believe the world was flat. Stay open minded, and feel free to give critical feedback... but your straw man argument about "wackos" just proves that you are not interested in facts, but more interested in trying to win arguments with insults.. a very arrogant and ignorant discourse.
        [Mr Amused]
        Mr Amused 2 days ago
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        JansenB, the Egyptians have a problem with these "scientists" too. You read the story? Did you see the part about "The Lost City of Atlantis"? Yeah, ignorant me, I have a problem with those two dudes defacing a bonafide, existing right before your eyes, totally real antiquity that is one of the wonders of the world. We know without a doubt how amazing these ACTUAL structures are and we know a lot about the people from that time that ACTUALLY existed. In order to HOPEFULLY prove the existence of a made-up "legend" you'd be willing to allow not-so-scientificly-trained people to, WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE OWNERS, chip away and possibly ruin, what? Anything? Just because they have some theory about a story based upon, what? A legend that was made up by someone who, most likely, was a high or drunken story teller. THAT would be the epitome of arrogance. btw, "facts"? Remember (uh oh, insult alert) we're talking about "The Lost City of Atlantis" you silly, dreaming child, lol. Smiley
        [JansenB]
        JansenB 2 days ago
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        "Examining Facts" ie, established dating for the pyramid held by orthodox Egyptology & "testing their validity". In other words, challenging the status quo. Now you were saying.. (with more insults)?
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        [Mr Amused]
        Mr Amused 2 days ago
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        What was their stated goal Mr. Reading Comprehension Challenged.
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    [Casey]
    Casey 4 days ago
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    this article is full of more speculation called fact than the "theorist". btw, conventional wisdom on the subject is nothing more than theory to begin with. more hard evidence exists contradicting conventional wisdom. the article said it right out of the gate. egypt relies on this for revenue. a real shame considering something else the article says "one of the wonders of the ancient world", not of ancient egypt, this is a treasure of the world which is monopolized.
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    [Byrd]
    Byrd 4 days ago
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    Zawi Hawas, director of Egyptian antiquities, is a RUTHLESS suppressor of any evidence or researcher who does not accept his personal beliefs. Hawas himself has been accused many times over the years of smuggling artifacts out of Egypt for profit and political/academic support from other countries. Academia is
    complicit in the repression of information through the self-interest of those who's theories (life's work) are threatened. The evidence for the existence of a pre-clovis, pre-solutrean GLOBAL seafaring empire, located west of the Pillars of Hercules, is overwhelming. These are the same people who thought the city of Troy was a fantasy. But the real myths are finally under attack though the freedom of information the internet has provided, and this has created demand, which is being filled by television producers now, who are willing to allow some alternative evidence to be further spread. Hawas could easily have prevented this desperation by simply acknowledging that the question of dating for the paint used, was a damned good one. The man is a tyrant IMO. If Atlantis did not exist, Plato wasn't writing fiction, he was LYING, for he prefaced his account with 'although strange, this is certainly true', and he went on toe describe North and South America's existence. Plato's evidence is tough to be rid of when it's two continents. The idea that a King would lie to his own people about his accomplishments, well isn't that novel. What are the odds. Better than finding an Egyptian King's mummy in a pyramid. They claim the bodies were moved to the Valley of the Kings to protect them from looters.....riiiiight. Which is easier to protect: A four sided building in the open with sloped sides and an alleged tomb entrance hundreds of feet up, or a hole in the ground in a valley. Nothing about main-stream Egyptology holds up to a lick of common sense. All you need to know about the way academia functions, is to read a 50 year old science book, and see how much turned out to be right; "The earth was not subjected to asteroid impacts like the moon because our thick atmosphere shielded us". Just one of countless examples of their "facts". I believe there is more corruption in Egyptology than any other field, and Hawas is why.
    Collapse Replies (4) Reply
        [Fredrick]
        Fredrick 4 days ago
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        Thanks for your comments Byrd - I got called a nut job for saying similar in a previous post. Why is it that if you are even remotely skeptical of "accepted" facts your labeled a "conspiracy theorist" Perhaps that's what I am but let's face the facts, there ARE some conspiracies, have been in the past and will in the future so we must question all that is out of place.

        I'm sure your aware but "Fingerprints of the Gods" by Graham Hancock is a very interesting read on this archeology debacle. And I have been touting the crimes and schemes of Hawas for years. He HAS been removed from authority "about time" so I have read.. I don't know who took his place but I rather doubt the culture of Egyptian supremacy will wane.. I'm glad these guys took a chance but too bad they dropped the "A" word, nobody will take them serious now..
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        [Geoffrey H]
        Geoffrey H 4 days ago
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        There is a difference between skepticism and being an outright nutjob.

        Everything has to be proven with evidence, and none of these things you pseudoscientists talk about has been proven. You say they are but the people who "prove" it to you aren't scientists or archaeologists.

        Their #$%$ is not their "life's work", it is what it is (which is #$%$). If they think they can prove it they should try submitting to peer-reviewed academic journals instead of publishing #$%$ for the lay public to read and passively will believe.
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        [Fredrick]
        Fredrick 3 days ago
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        If everything has to be proven with "evidence" how has the bible been so successful ?
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        [Nayland]
        Nayland 3 days ago
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        The evidence for the existence of a pre-clovis, pre-solutrean GLOBAL seafaring empire, located west of the Pillars of Hercules, is overwhelming.

        produce some of the evidence- .... as yet, no one has shown anything suporting a pre clovis etc empire

        if the evidence is so overwhelming, where is it?
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    [Skeptical Believer]
    Skeptical Believer 4 days ago
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    Seriously? This author disregards theories based on what? "There are countless glaring fallacies in Goerlitz and Erdmann's wild theory, beginning with the fact that Atlantis never existed...". And he knows this how? He states it as if it's a known fact, when it is most definitely not. There are many reasons to believe Atlantis actually existed, and not just from Plato. From South and Central American legends and folklore (which are almost always based on real events, even if they are 'embellished' a bit over generations), from countless other cultures and peoples' legends. To say that it's a 'fact' that Atlantis never existed without evidence to show it is very BAD science. But, then again, the author is the 'Bad Science' columnist...

    And, Ken Feder is just as guilty. He states that the ancient Egyptians had to have built the pyramids because "the technological skills necessary to construct the pyramids were not unknown in ancient Egypt". This is based on the idea that all the 'earlier' pyramids were leading up to the Giza pyramids, and gave them practice. Based on what? How do they know the so-called 'earlier' pyramids were actually built earlier than the Giza pyramids? They are making assumptions where there is little-to-no evidence. They are so blinded by their consensus science that they cannot see the glaring proof that the ancient Egyptians simply did not have the technology to build the Giza pyramids. WE probably don't have the technology today to duplicate them! Saying they carved out hard granite boxes (out of ONE piece of granite, mind you) to such precise measurements, perfect angles, and unbelievable smoothness, using hardened copper tools and grit is ludicrous!

    Believing the pyramids were built as tombs is even more ridiculous than believing space aliens built them (which is not as far-fetched as you might think)! There is not one shred of evidence pointing to them being built as tombs. Not one. Yet, there is all kinds of evidence pointing to them being used for power generation. If they were built as tombs, then why, out of the hundreds of pyramids found so far, have they found not a single burial? Not one! You can't claim grave robbers, because many of the pyramids were still sealed and contained nothing (including the Great Pyramid). Consensus scientists/archeologists can't explain that.

    On the other hand, why is there chemical residue found on the walls of the so-called "Queen's Chamber", along all corridors leading to, and including, the so-called "King's Chamber", and in the upper spaces above the "King's Chamber"? And, why do all the walls inside the "King's Chamber" appear to have been 'blown apart' a few inches, moved out of their original location in a uniform fashion? Some claim earthquake, but that would place the epicenter directly in the middle of the "King's Chamber"! Not possible. Also, why, if you tap on any piece of granite inside the Great Pyramid (it hasn't yet been tried in the others, as far as I know or have read), it resonates a specific frequency, regardless of the size of the granite? Now, these questions cannot be answered by the 'tomb theory', but make perfect sense if the pyramid was being used as a power generator!

    Sorry for the rant, but sometimes consensus scientists tick me off!
    Collapse Replies (7) Reply
        [Tamez]
        Tamez 4 days ago
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        Interesting never heard of the frequency thing. But I'm with you. I believe they had help from extraterrestrials.. many people discard this theory as fairy tale but I like to think that our human species is proof that there is intelligent life capable of traveling thru space.. and I mean come on.. hundreds of billions of galaxies and trillions of stars.. no doubt.
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        [Jack Jack]
        Jack Jack 4 days ago
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        same here - never heard of resonating granite..but i do not think it's aliens though - guess we had on earth civilization so advanced it built those amazing things (apparently on moon and mars as well - not just earth..)
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        [Tamez]
        Tamez 4 days ago
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        Definitely true and most likely we did build them. Our specialty is creativity. Some think these were primitive peoples but they had the same brainpower and critical thinking skills that we have today.

        The astrology part is what makes me think of extraterrestrials. I can't ignore the legends that have been recorded over thousands of years by almost all civilizations in the history of civilizations.
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        [saubidable]
        saubidable 4 days ago
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        I'm not saying it was aliens, IT WAS ALIENS
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        [D S]
        D S 4 days ago
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        Or now I know this is a very far out theory but perhaps they were tombs (there were tombs found in Pyramids) and were made by Humans and these "Consensus" Scientists are actually right. If they were power generators that were filled with chemicals (probably acid) then why did they bother making so many inscriptions on the walls, what's the point? and if they were used for generating power then why did they stop making them by the end of the old kingdom? (they could of just as easily entered the old pyramids and learned from their very structure) and its odd that there does'nt seem to be any texts saying they were to generate power but there are texts saying that they were used to rest the body of the Pharoah and the shafts are used for the soul to move on the the afterlife.
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        [Andrew]
        Andrew 4 days ago
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        Hi JJ, you not figured all this out yet ? CC still buys into all this alien malarkey, while I still think the knowledge came from the heaven sent mushrooms that appeared around the sacred cow. The great pyramid was used as an initiation temple for the brotherhood of the snake and initiates had to lie in the box for three days before being reborn. A bit off topic but Mark Passio`s `The matrix triology decoded` is worth a look for the lateral thinkers out there trying to get to grips with the reality of the predicament we find ourselves entwined within !
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        [Skeptical Believer]
        Skeptical Believer 3 days ago
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        D S, what inscriptions are you referring to? There were NO inscriptions inside the pyramids. I really hope you were being facetious there...

        I believe the Giza Pyramids predate the Old Kingdom by quite a few millenia. And no, the Old Kingdom Egyptians could not have simply 'entered the old pyramids and learned from their very structure'. I'd bet everything that they didn't have a clue as to how to get into them! And the so-called 'Pyramid Texts' are wrong. At least, that's probably what the Egyptians THOUGHT they were originally for, but no. There was not a single burial inside any of the hundreds of pyramids found to date.

        Ah, why do I bother with trolls...?
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Arcturus
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2014, 10:47:22 pm »

Opinions running, incidentally about 90/10 in favor that Atlantis existed and that the gents are being wrongly persecuted!  Smiley
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Arcturus
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 11:33:39 pm »


Jonathan M 3 days ago
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It's easy to dismiss the core of this particular "conspiracy theory" by poking fun at the craziness that surrounds it--and by conveniently omitting facts. Other than the cartouche "discovered" by Howard Vyse during the nineteenth century, there is absolutely no evidence that Khufu built the Great Pyramid--and the cartouche is a clumsy forgery that prominent Egyptologists of the time (Birch, Lepsius) had serious reservations about. The most important thing to know about the cartouche is that the name of Khufu is misspelled therein: it begins with the symbol for "Ra", the supreme Egyptian god, rather than the symbol for "Kh", the first syllable of Khufu's name. Benjamin Radford could have reported this fact in his lazy, condescending article, but he'd much rather have the reader believe that the whole thing is just a bit of wackadoodle ancient aliens quackery not worth a moment's consideration. The reality is that Khufu never claimed credit for building the pyramid--and that was the reality long, long before Erich von Däniken or anyone else suggested that people from other planets visited Earth thousands of years ago.
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    [philip]
    philip 3 days ago
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    I had a quick look @ the ole 'cartouche' too..it seems to go hawk,horned snake,hawk,circle ..its back 2 front! that would read 'raafa'..surely 'Rafa' Benitez, former Liverpool manager did not build great pyramid!?..alternatively the Vyse sketch shows the circle with a 'splodge' which could be the 'Kh' glyph written in cursive form..and the 'hawks' are actually cursive quails..ie w=u
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    [Jonathan M]
    Jonathan M 3 days ago
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    Quoting Zecharia Sitchin's "The Stairway to Heaven", here are the reservations expressed by Samuel Birch over the Vyse cartouche:

    "What puzzled Mr. Birch was that markings presumably from the beginning of the Fourth Dynasty [the period in which Khufu ruled] were made in a script that started to appear only centuries later. The hieroglyphic symbols discovered by Vyse...belonged to another period. They were also very indistinct and Mr. Birch had great difficulty in reading them...Many of them looked to him 'written in characters very nearly hieratic'--from an even much later period than the semi-hieratic characters [in which Khufu's name was written]."
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