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Morocco and Eastern Atlantis

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mdsungate
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« on: September 05, 2007, 03:21:23 pm »

 Smiley  we seem to have explored the
Canaries, the Azores, the Strait, Spain but not MOROCCO!

Surely an island continent as large and prominent as Atlantis would  leave it's mark in every direction. 

First of all, for the geographically impared, this is where Morocco is:



In Charles Berlitz's book "Atlantis, the Eicht Continent" his post this black and white picture:



The caption under the picture reads as such, (in case you can't make it out):

Quote
Sunken buildings or walls off African coast (Morocco) at depth of fifty to sixty feet, extending for several miles.  Size of set stones are comparable to those of Sacsahuaman and Bimini.  Bruno Rizatto

Perhaps if this is yet another "sea wall" as in Bimini, the continent had begun to sink and walls were constructed to keep the ocean out of previously populated areas, as is done today in New Orleans, or Amsterdam?   Wink
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 07:52:22 am by mdsungate » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2007, 08:01:56 pm »

That's the pic I was talking about in the other thread!  But where precisely is this formation?  Has anyone else dove on it?  I want to see more.  Thanks, mdsungate !

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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2007, 12:31:42 am »

There was an article some years ago in Ancient American about this area during Roman times, all the north-west corner of the continent then called Mauritania....recounting quite an amazing story.

The king of that country had such a good relation with Rome that he was the only non-Roman ruler within the Roman Empire.  He was literate and very immersed in artsand immensely wealthy, as was the line he came from.  His son (or daughter) was married to a Ptolemy offspring of Cleopatra apparently, and had close relations with Egypt.   There were many Romans that lived throughout Mauritania.  Then Nero was in control in Rome and quickly ran through the state coffers....he set upon a plan to get more money by "inviting" the Mauritanian king to officially visit Rome, a summons that could not be refused.   It is possible that his plan was to hold the king hostage, but at any rate the king died in the process....

When the Mauritanians heard of the crazy events which led to the death of their king, they arose and killed ALL the Romans living in the country.  Meanwhile the king's ship made it's way back.  Now Nero had no choice but to send ships to Mauritania and kill the royals and confiscate the treasury.  Very neat!

However, the remaining royals, including the Ptolemy progeny (and rumored, the mummy of Cleopatra) scooped up the treasury and with an army of followers took off south for Senegal, long famous for ship-building, captains and able sea men.  The Romans, following overland, arrived too late and they were not heard of again.

The author speculates that the contingent of ships followed the current easily across the Atlantic to the "new world" and ended up eventually sailing up the Mississippi to the upper mid-west where there are claims of traces of them in various places.

Interesting story, regardless of whether it's true or not, eh?
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2007, 10:59:15 am »




The above picture is From Charles Berlitz' book "Atlantis, the Eight Continent"

Unfortunately he only has ONE  short paragraph about it.



Here it is:


"An undersea wall off the Moroccan coast, extending several miles in length, first discovered more
than ten years ago (that would be 1974) by a diver while he was spearfishing, has since been further
investigated and photographed.

Some of the stones, either a fallen part of the wall or an auxiliary building, are comparable in size to
the foundation stones used in the temple of Baalbek,Lebanon - the largest building stones known to have been quarried in ancient times".


FROM:

ATLANTIS - THE EIGHTH CONTINENT

by Charles Berlitz
1984
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2007, 11:02:02 am »






I have been searching a good portion of the morning for any more information, both with our

Google and Google.it and all I come up with is Collina's Spartel theory.

I am going to keep trying.
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mdsungate
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2007, 12:10:52 pm »

 Smiley  Okay people, I think I've found what my favorite author was refering to.  As I've mentioned before, Charles Berlitz, although a wonderful and inspiring researcher, was not exactly proficient at listing his sources, LOL.

But before I post the information it's time for another lesson in geography.  If you're like me, (an product of American Education), you can name all the state capitals but you'll have no idea where this next place is:  Lanrarote

Lanzarote is the most eastern of the Canary Islands. It is situated 125 km from the African coast




As you can see off the coast of Morocco or off the coast of Lanzarote, we're talking about the same spot. So here's what I found:

TAKEN FROM:  http://atlantis.religionstatistics.net/

By 1981 an expedition lead by Pippo Cappellano found some mysterious basaltic ruins on the ocean floor near the coast of Lanzarote.
At a depth of about 50 feet and over an area of 900 square feet, they found large flat stones that look like they were carefully put into place.
These blocks were followed by wide stone steps. But that’s not all: an undersea wall also was discovered which was formed by recular
triangular blocks.



The rest of the site is also quite interesting.  I'll post more of it later   Wink
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2007, 12:37:38 pm »

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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2007, 01:08:32 pm »


OK, Mike.  Let's go back to Berlitz, in the paragraphs just before the one above:




A recent example of an archaeological discovery by an independently financed expedition was
made by a group of Spanish scuba divers along the underwater shelf off the Canary aislands. 

According to tradition of the vanished original inhabitants, the Guanches, the shelf consists of
the former mountain peaks of a submerged continent.

In 1981 a private expedition organized by P. Cappellano found  large stone slabs set on the bottom
at a depth of about fifty feet covering what first appeared to be a 900-square foot area.

The stones were carefully set, and wide stone steps led down from the central pavement as if they
were going down to a landing dock.

Certain marks carved in the stones appeared to be symbols or signs that resemble 'letters' carved on rocks on land in the Canary Islands.

Further investigation will determine whether the signs indigenous and resemble one another only, or
if they contain signs or letters from the languages of other races that may have have landed on the
islands. 

These languages could include the Punic brought by the Carthaginian fleets, the archaic Greek of the
Minoan seafarers, the ancient Libyan of North Africa and even Tifinagh, the written script of the Tuareg tribes of Morocco and the Sahara.

Land investigation of the Canaries is being intermittently carried out by special expeditions from Spain with a view to ascertaining whether or not there exist undiscovered remains of the original Guanches culture (or even, as rumored, surviving Guanches) in villages or caves within the mountainous islands.


AND NOW THE REST FROM ABOVE:


An undersea wall off the Moroccan coast, extending several miles in length, first discovered more
than ten years ago (that would be 1974) by a diver while he was spearfishing, has since been further
investigated and photographed.

Some of the stones, either a fallen part of the wall or an auxiliary building, are comparable in size to
the foundation stones used in the temple of Baalbek,Lebanon - the largest building stones known to have been quarried in ancient times".


FROM:

ATLANTIS - THE EIGHTH CONTINENT

by Charles Berlitz
1984
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 01:11:35 pm by Bianca2001 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2007, 01:26:23 pm »

 Smiley  Thanks Bianca, that's a much better map.  You can see how close Lanzarote is to Morocco and the coast of Africa.  This is defiantely what Berlitz was talking about.  

Here's a little more of what's on that site I found it on, which was:

http://atlantis.religionstatistics.net/

The article is titled:

ATLANTIS : THE LYBIO-PHOENICIAN EMPIRE OF THE CANARY ISLANDS AND MOROCCO

Quote
THE CANARY ISLANDS AND MOROCCO AS THE SOURCE OF THE MYTH.

INFO: The theory exposed here has been developed taking into account the clues that Plato gave about Atlantis' situation, and taking
also into account geographic and historic facts known.

"There was an island opposite the strait which you call the Pillars of Hercules [Straits of Gibraltar], an island larger than Libya [North Africa]
and Asia [Turkey] combined; from it travellers could in those days reach the other islands, and from them the whole opposite continent
[America ?] which surrounds what can truly be called the ocean. For the sea within the strait we were talking about [Mediterranean Sea]
is like a lake with a narrow entrance; the outer ocean is the real ocean and the land which entirely surrounds it is properly termed continent
[America and Europe combined ?]. On this island of Atlantis had arisen a powerful and remarkable dynasty of kings, who ruled the whole
island, and many other islands as well and parts of the continent; in addition it controlled, within the strait, Libya up to the borders of Egypt
and Europe as far as Tyrrhenia [Tuscany and Corsica]. This dynasty, gathering its whole power together, attempted to enslave, at a single
stroke, your country [Greece] and ours [Egypt] and all the territory within the strait. It was then, Solon, that the power and courage and
strength of your city [Athens] became clear for all men to see. Her bravery and military skill were outstanding; she led an alliance of Greeks,
and then when they deserted her and she was forced to fight alone, after running into direst peril, she overcame the invaders and celebrated
a victory; she rescued those not yet enslaved from the slavery threatening them, and she generously freed all others living within the Pillars
of Hercules [so S. Spain and Morocco might have been keept under Atlantean control]. At a later time there were earthquakes and floods
of extraordinary violence, and in a single dreadful day and night all your fighting men were swallowed up by the earth, and the island of
Atlantis was similarly swallowed up by the sea and vanished [the text points as if the Greek soldiers and Atlantis were in different places,
but the catastrophe afftected both]; this is why the sea in that area is to this day impassable to navigation, which is hindered by mud just
below the surface, the remains of the sunken island" [Egyptian priest telling the history of Atlantis to Solon].

Critias: "To his twin brother, who was born after him [the king Atlas], and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars
of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades [Cadiz] in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the
Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus."

IDEA: If Gades would be Agadir (in ancient times also was known by such name), then with no doubt Critias was talking about the Canary
Islands, in front of Agadir (!), and wich are of volcanic origin. Critias mentioned that Atlantis exercised power over other nearer islands.
The name "Atlantic Ocean" and "Atlas Mountains" are to be found only in Morocco, and if the Canary Islands would rise more, such
islands almost would belong to the Atlas ranges...

INFO: In whichever case, the Canary Islands are just in front of Cadiz: in a SW direction (1200 km).

IDEA: But no native cities were found by the Spaniards in the XIV Century, when conquered the islands, and without cities there
are not civilization... but as the same account of Plato indicates that at least one city sunked into the ocean... it could be suspected
that the cities are not searched... in the right place.


The gist of the entire article is kind of the way I feel myself.  Lots of places are proposed for what could have been Atlantis.  But this article kind of debunks theories like "the islands of Santorin, Crete, and other Aegean islands were the mythical lost continent of Atlantis"  This article points out what is said by Plato as unmistably being in the Atlantic Ocean:

Quote
"There was an island opposite the strait which you call the Pillars of Hercules [Straits of Gibraltar], an island larger than Libya [North Africa]
and Asia [Turkey] combined; from it travellers could in those days reach the other islands, and from them the whole opposite continent
[America ?] which surrounds what can truly be called the ocean. For the sea within the strait we were talking about [Mediterranean Sea]
is like a lake with a narrow entrance; the outer ocean is the real ocean and the land which entirely surrounds it is properly termed continent
[America and Europe combined ?]. On this island of Atlantis had arisen a powerful and remarkable dynasty of kings, who ruled the whole
island, and many other islands as well and parts of the continent; in addition it controlled, within the strait, Libya up to the borders of Egypt
and Europe as far as Tyrrhenia [Tuscany and Corsica]. This dynasty, gathering its whole power together, attempted to enslave, at a single
stroke, your country [Greece] and ours [Egypt] and all the territory within the strait. It was then, Solon, that the power and courage and
strength of your city [Athens] became clear for all men to see. Her bravery and military skill were outstanding; she led an alliance of Greeks,
and then when they deserted her and she was forced to fight alone, after running into direst peril, she overcame the invaders and celebrated
a victory; she rescued those not yet enslaved from the slavery threatening them, and she generously freed all others living within the Pillars
of Hercules [so S. Spain and Morocco might have been keept under Atlantean control]. At a later time there were earthquakes and floods
of extraordinary violence, and in a single dreadful day and night all your fighting men were swallowed up by the earth, and the island of
Atlantis was similarly swallowed up by the sea and vanished [the text points as if the Greek soldiers and Atlantis were in different places,
but the catastrophe afftected both]; this is why the sea in that area is to this day impassable to navigation, which is hindered by mud just
below the surface, the remains of the sunken island" [Egyptian priest telling the history of Atlantis to Solon].


I sometimes ask myself, "have these archeologists ever bothered to read Plato?", LOL   Wink  
 

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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2007, 01:41:03 pm »

By 1981 an expedition lead by Pippo Cappellano found some mysterious basaltic ruins on the ocean floor near the coast of Lanzarote.
At a depth of about 50 feet and over an area of 900 square feet, they found large flat stones that look like they were carefully put into place.
These blocks were followed by wide stone steps. But that’s not all: an undersea wall also was discovered which was formed by recular triangular blocks.


Spectacular!  Thanks, I had no idea about this.  That's got to be it.  I wonder what their source was?

Blessings,
Horus
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2007, 01:53:07 pm »

Cheesy  LOL, we must have been posting at the exact same time, LOL. 

I think so too Horus.  But "B" brings up a possible "maybe not" in the timing of the dates.

Okay "B" I see your point in the discrepancies of the dates. But couldn't the site have first been discovered by the spear fisherman in 1974...

Then later "has since been further investigated and photographed, (1981), by an expedition lead by Pippo Cappellano? 

Then in 1984, (the publishing date of his book), mentioned by Berlitz in his "Atlantis the Eight Continent"?   

Both articles say that: "Pippo Cappellano found some mysterious basaltic ruins on the ocean floor near the coast of Lanzarote.  At a depth of about 50 feet and over an area of 900 square feet"  That's the exact depth Berlitz mentions.

But then the article I posted says: "But that’s not all: an undersea wall also was discovered which was formed by recular triangular blocks."  But it doesn't say how long the wall is.  900 square feet is not "miles" obviously, but that was the "mysterious ruins"  So then, how long was the wall?

Couldn't this still be what Berlitz was refering to?  Or am I missing something?....  LOL, (Granted, I'm not always the sharpest tool in the shed). Tongue

 
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2007, 02:45:54 pm »






I think this is IMPORTANT:

When I started my search, I was looking for the Spartel area.  For sure that's where the
shoals of mud must have been - and still seem to be if I remember correctly.  (It's been
a rough morning - Pavarotti).  I think Gerard-Collina says so too.

Then when I typed the rest of the paragraph and posted the map, a whole new picture came up.
In my search today I saw often mention of DONNELLY connected with this.  I think I'll hit my copy
of ANTEDELUVIAN WORLD when I am finished what I am doing (a time-consuming chart).

I have had this feeling lately that I should do just that - Donnelly has been totally forgotten and
it's wise to remember that he had total access to the NATIONAL LIBRARY and spent a lot of time
there researching.  Sungate is at work and when he gets home, well, he's that rare breed of
father and husband that has his priorities straight.........

So, Horus, if you have the time, how about joining me in re-reading good old Donnelly?

b
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2007, 02:52:53 pm »



In the mean time I'll stop my graph posting and hustle over to Google.it and find out what I can

about this Pippo Cappellano.
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2007, 02:53:36 pm »

Well my "tools" are "dull" because I got mixed up on who posted what!

Yes other non-Atlantic Atlantis theorists twist words unscrupulously. "In front of" which side of the Pillars, for example.  And even worse, some mislocate the Pillars at the Bosphorous or other places which contradicts classical knowledge from Herodotus and Hanno.  

Anyway, it may be that only  900 ft.  of ruins was examined but went on further, or, "miles" was an exaggeration in Berlitz's book, after all, it wasn't specified how many miles.  On the other hand, why would it say off the coast of Morroco and not specify the Canaries? That also raises doubt as to whether it really is the same ruin.

~Horus
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2007, 03:07:19 pm »




Well, it seems so far that Pippo Cappellano is an author of some renown over in Italy, but I don't
know yet if I could by any books online from the US.  Most of what I found is underwater 'stuff'
for him.  Like a book called the "Underwater Photographer".

Then I found this (in English) and it turns out to be from Andrew Collins:


                                               PHOENICIANS IN THE ATLANTIC


                                           More Discoveries from the Canary Isles




If Professor Collina-Girard wanted to find new evidence for the existence of Atlantis he would have been better citing the archaeological features discovered recently off the island of Lanzarote in the Canaries by underwater explorer Pippo Cappellano. He has detected and filmed rectilinear stone foundations of unquestionable man-made manufacture in around 20-22 metres of water. Pictures of his discovery appear in a recent issue of HERA magazine.

Although the Canaries have been proposed occasionally as the site of lost Atlantis, there is no reason to assume that these structures do belong to Plato's lost island empire. Since they lie only at a depth of 20 or so metres, they would have been above sea-level as recently as the time of Christ, like the lost city of Heraklion found recently off the coast of Alexandria in Egypt.

This is thought to have submerged as a result of a natural cataclysm as recently as AD 600. More likely is that the underwater features off Lanzarote represent evidence for the presence in the archipelago of a proto-Phoenician, Iberic Phoenician or Carthaginian sea-port during the first or second millennium BC.

Only recently, Canaries archaeologist and historian Pablo Atoche Peña has released new evidence of a Phoenician and Carthaginian presence in the Canary isles as early as 500 BC. This lends weight to the idea that these maritime peoples regularly made journeys to the archipelago, and perhaps used them as a staging post into the outer ocean. From here the Canary Current takes a vessel towards the islands of Cape Verde, before sweeping it westwards upon the North Equatorial Current towards the Caribbean.

In 100 BC the Roman geographer Statius Sebosus recorded that it was 40 days' sail between the Gorgades, unquestionably the Cape Verde Isles off the West African coast, and the Hesperides, the 'islands in the west' said in classical tradition to have lay beyond the ocean river.

Surely this is a reference to transatlantic journeys made either during or before his age, most probably by Carthaginian and Phoenician voyagers. Thus a line of transmission for information between the Caribbean and the Mediterranean world during the first-century BC supports the view that Atlantis laid in the outer ocean, conceivably in the Caribbean.


http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/conference/
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