The Atlantis Organization and Bahamas Research

[Horus]

Hi Des (Is it okay if I call you that or would you prefer Desiree?),

I moved our conversation out of the Pillars thread since I've inadvertently made a mess over there.  

The link didn't come up, but there is another item that Bill Donato's name has been linked to that we have been kicking around the Atlantis forums for about a year now. Do you know anything about this?
---AZORES---
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/cublatx.h

It sounds a little far-fetched, but maybe you could ask Bill Donato if he knows something about it, if you don't have any knowledge of it yourself.

I posted the text from that link you couldn't access below along with two more articles.

I'm 99.9% sure that the Azores/Sargasso story involving Bill is false or at the very least a garbled account.  250 miles SW are the Abyssal Plains 3 miles deep, and Bill has only made expeditions to Bimini, Cay Sal, Andros and Cat.  I emailed it to him just in case.  It's so sensational and outrageous that he'll probably get a kick out of it if he hasn't seen it already.

I didn't know that, but I will try and check it out.  I did start a thread here on Cat Island awhiles back, but haven't heard anything about the Long Rocks.

There was a brief blurb about it in the same link about the Azores, but I have more material which I will add here shortly.

I'd be happy to see it, is it all sonar images?  What area of the Bahamas are they located at?

I have some sonar data, lots more photos, some satellite pix and maps, charts, etc.  Most of the geometric anomallies I described are near Bimini 

Greg and Andrew have also talked about doing some research into the Canaries, as ruins have been found off the islands.  Have you done any work close to the Canaries or Morrocco?

Bill has mentioned to me that he would like to check out that enigmatic formation off the coast of Morocco (photo in Berlitz's Atlantis: The Eight Continent pg. 81) at some point but priority is on the Bahamas.  Priority for me is at Giza, then Bimini.

My Best,
Paul

[Horus]

BACK TO BIMINI

by William Donato

from Atlantis Rising Magazine #14  - Winter 98
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An ambitious new research project, a multi-pronged investigation into the many archeological mysteries of Bimini, is currently in the planning stages. Funded by Law of One Research Corporation, a Massachusetts-based foundation dedicated to following up on the work of Edgar Cayce, the project is a continuation of Project: Alta, begun in 1993 by The Atlantis Organization. The new investigations will focus on high-priority sites as well as seeking out new ones. The emphasis in 1993 was to seek out new sites by means of aerial reconnaissance and side-scan sonar, as well as to investigate the zoomorphic (animal-shaped) effigy mound designated as the Cobra Mound, which was discovered on an earlier trip.

Project: Alta was the first time a comprehensive side-scan sonar project had been done since Dr. David Zink and Dr. Harold Edgerton did theirs in the 1970s. Theirs resulted in the discovery of a number of anomalies that included right-angled features and parallel lines. Alta's side-scan returns revealed tall spires rising from the ocean floor, a hexagonal feature, an area that had multiple right-angled features in association with two concentric circles and parallel lines, a number of rectangles, and a triangular sound shadow about 150 feet in extent in deep water. All of the targets had their global positioning coordinates taken so that they could be relocated in the future. Magnetic coordinates were taken from the air for a large potential site several miles east of Bimini.

An archeological seashell (one altered by man) was discovered on the Cobra Mound. Part of the project was documented on Secrets of the Deep: The Hunt for Atlantis on the Discovery Channel. In 1995 the project continued and resulted in a number of significant actions, including the first exploration of the Sea Horse Mound (see photo below) and also the discovery of a stone with a ridge, or tongue reminiscent of those of Ollaritaytambo in Peru.

What are the goals of the new project? The first priority is the investigation of the high-priority side-scan targets, which will be photographed and video taped and have their coordinates taken. An aerial search will seek to relocate an underwater pentagon (photographed previously from the air) that is many acres in extent. It will also get coordinates for the large potential site east of Bimini so that it can be dived on. Coordinates will also be taken on several parts of a number of the zoomorphic effigy mounds and fed into an astro-archeology computer program to determine if there are any correspondences. If funding permits, some features off Andros Island will be investigated (Dr. Manson Valentine had a photograph of what looks like concentric stone rings in this area), as will the Cay Sal Bank area. Herbert Sawinski has photographed and described features at two sites in this area of potentially great significance. One may be an actual quarry site and the other is of stones like those of the Bimini Road only in much better shape!

Edgar Cayce specifically mentioned the Bimini area as having remains directly attributable to the civilization of Atlantis. He described Atlantis as having achieved the highest civilization and knowledge that has been known to the earth's plane. The first discovery of clearly defined architectural materials such as building foundations would be obvious evidence of the existence of a former civilization. The side-scan sonar targets and man-altered stones on the Bimini Road are more than evocative. Perhaps they are the shapes of things to come.

BIMINI RESEARCH YIELDS RESULTS

In July-August of 1996 the Law of One Research Corporation provided funding for a Bimini research project undertaken by Dr. Joan Hanley of GAEA Project, Inc., and Dr. Doug Richards of Meridian Institute. Both are veteran researchers of the mysteries of Bimini. Dr. Hanley is known for the successful Quest for Atlantis conferences since 1989 and has been involved with work concerning the zoomorphic effigy mounds of East Bimini. Dr. Richards is well known for his many years as Director of Research at the A.R.E. in Virginia Beach. He has long been involved in various aspects of the Atlantis research (as well as other Cayce-related archeological research). He has been in the enviable position of getting the first look at some of the original serious scientific reports of those first involved at Bimini. Though not known to many, his diligent work was mainly responsible for the discovery that there was a considerable discrepancy among the various official maps of Bimini, with some being literally miles off some-thing of considerable value to navigators and archeologists. He too has been involved with the Bimini mounds project with Dr. Hanley.

The 1996 project was the follow-up of a side-scan project done about three years ago. This was only the second known scientific side-scan sonar project undertaken to locate possible underwater sites since the initial work done by Dr. David Zink and Dr. Harold Edgerton in the late 1970s. This original work seemed to focus on the area west of Bimini and resulted in the discovery of a number of highly evocative shapes on the sea bottom: numerous right angled features and several parallel straight lines. The next side-scan sonar investigation was Project: Alta, sponsored by The Atlantis Organization (TAO) done in the spring of 1993. Partially funded by members of TAO the results were extraordinary.

GAEA Project followed a few months later, with a longer duration side-scan with equally evocative results. Taken separately each would indicate that something is there, but taken together the evidence is far more persuasive especially when we consider that it is the same types of features (right-angled shapes, parallel lines, etc.) that keep showing up. All admit that there are recent artifacts there such as sunken ships, airplanes, cars, and even more unusual items. Significantly the features which are not recent very strongly resemble architectural remains. This is exactly what we would expect to find in an area believed to have been rocked by a seismic upheaval and then covered by the sea. Most small artifacts would have been washed away. Consider what would remain of our civilization if a glacier covered all of North America or if Hawaii should experience a volcanic disaster such as that which occurred at Krakatoa!

What were the results of this follow-up of GAEA Project's original survey? For one, deeper water investigations were attempted. Many people are unaware that ocean levels have not remained stable, but have shown large- scale fluctuations over the ages. This is generally the result of glaciers melting or glaciers forming (volcanic arid geo-tectonic factors can also be involved). The Sea level worldwide before the last melting of the glaciers at the end of the Pleistocene was at least 320 feet lower than it is today (part of the premise of the movie Water World was what might happen if all of the glaciers and the ice cap melted). This is a conservative estimate, with some scientists claiming a number more like 600 feet. The importance of finding ruins at greater depths is that they must be much older than those at shallower depths.

We also have to consider subsidence, as there is a subduction zone (an area where the edge of one geo-tectonic plate slides under another to be geologically recycled) near the Bahamas, a possible cause of actual sinking in the past. The following finds are taken from a report submitted by GAEA Project to the Law of One Research Corporation and an interview of Dr. Hanley and Dr. Richards by A. Robert Smith, the editor of Venture Inward magazine. The side-scan sonar was run about one mile off the Biminis near the margin of the Straits of Florida. This is in the general area of the Gulf Stream, the location in which a geological survey should be done to find evidence for Atlantis according to Cayce.

The Global Positioning System was used to establish latitude and longitude coordinates. It was discovered that there were positional errors for the island of Bimini of approximately 500 meters (over 1,500 feet). Drift dives (where a diver is lowered to a certain depth on a rope while the boat pulls him or her along for a certain distance) were done at a depth of 45 meters in an attempt to identify features that had been registered on the side-scan sonar. When the Bahaman Banks margin was explored near the drop-off into the true ocean it was found that the edge off Cat Cay is generally straight with a series of ledges before a vertical drop-off. Though geometric patterns appeared on the sonar they have yet to be investigated. On the margins of the Banks off South Bimini, however, there appeared a wavy shape with approximately 15-meter undulations in the drop-off and 10- to 15-meter projections that appeared to be both geological and manmade. One was found to be a flatbed truck, while another was a sharp rectangular cut which looked to be unnatural (but which has yet to be explored). Regular patterns appeared off South Bimini, and though some were wrecks and other debris, (it's known locally as the dump), some were larger and of unknown origin. Diving on one revealed it to be a rocky rectangular pattern.

Looking for the remnants of a civilization that perished nearly 12,000 years ago in one of the greatest catastrophes of legend or history presents special challenges. Looking for it under water and in mangrove swamps makes the search both difficult and dangerous. Most of the people that have undertaken this quest have had to face opposition within the (allegedly) scientific community as well as outright ridicule from some elements in the media. No one has gotten rich from it. Far from it! Most have lost substantial amounts of their own money. It takes about $3,000 to do a single day of side-scan sonar work. If you get a good deal it will probably cost about $500 to do an aerial survey for an hour. None of this includes any special equipment. Even simple ground penetration radar might cost between $2,000 and $3,000 for a single day.

Since the late 1960s many individuals and groups have felt it important enough to join the search: Dr. Manson Valentine, Dr. David Zink, Dimitri and Anna Rebikoff, MARS, SEAS' GAEA, Joy Travel, TAO, and several others. We have all had an uphill battle, but that seems to have leveled off. Too many anomalies have popped up. Clearly identifiable artifacts that are obviously ancient and from no known civilization, but which have features common to several of the supposed first civilizations, are now known. The weight of evidence is shifting in our favor as more and more unexplainables are found. If we were to use the principle of Occam's Razor (where the simplest theory that explains the most is regarded as the correct one) it would be seen that the most probable explanation for these unknowns is that they are the remnants of a lost civilization.

Reprinted with permission from the Law of One newsletter, fall 1997. William Donato has an M.A. in anthropology.
source: http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue14/ar14bimini.html
 

[Horus]

This article by Bill Donato appeared in Atlantis Rising Magazine #30 Nov/Dec 2001 .   

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EDITOR'S NOTE: Just before press time, sources familiar with National Geographic's plans to explore, with video, a reported "underwater city" near Cuba (reported in Atlantis Rising #29) confirm that the expedition is going forward but has encountered delays related to logistics and Cuban red tape. Nevertheless, the fact that the expedition is going forward at all would seem to indicate that preliminary radar reports do show something. Hopefully we will have more to say by next issue.
The recent developments have rekindled interest in the region as a possible site for Atlantis. Closely watched since the 1920s for such evidence, the area was the subject of an Edgar Cayce prophecy. The reappearance of the drowned civilization would begin, it was forecast, in the Bahamas in the late '60s with more to come around the end of the century. The first part of that prophecy, many believed; had been fulfilled in 1968 when Dr. Manson Valentine discovered an underwater pavement near Bimini. However, when the academic establishment pronounced the formation nothing but ordinary beachrock, most gave up on the idea. Many of those may be surprised to learn that intense research into the Atlantean possibilities of the Caribbean has not abated and that, in fact, a great deal of evidence has been produced, which not only vindicates Cayce but discredits academia. The author of the accompanying report William Donato has been a leading researcher involved in many of the scientific expeditions to the region.

Revisiting Edgar Cayce's Caribbean Atlantis
Could New Discoveries Vindicate More Than Thirty Years of Intense Research?

Three questions must be answered to establish the validity of Atlantis:

1. Were there ever large land masses in the Atlantic Ocean prior to the tenth millennium B.C.?
2. Is there evidence of a cataclysm circa 10,000 B.C.?
3. Are there any indications of a higher culture prior to this time?

When the Pleistocene glaciers melted, sea levels rose at least 320 feet, there was renewed volcanic activity and "super-quakes." Areas now beneath the sea were on the surface. The Bahamas alone was virtually thousands of square miles of dry land with an almost Edenic climate and some of the most perfect natural harbors on the planet. These are facts supported by evidence from various disciplines. It is the third question that now requires an answer.
The first account I have come across in the 20th century of anomalous structures was from a most unlikely source: an astrology book. I quote: "The polarizing effect of Pluto was shown very drastically at the time of the earthquake in Cuba. A short time after this a new island rose to the surface near the Caicos Island, north of Haiti, while the ocean floor was lowered. On this island enormously large walls and tremendous foundations were found upon which edifices of gigantic proportions must have stood. The Carnegie Institute is participating in the research work which has already started" (Pluto by Fritz Bnmhubner, orig. pub. Nuremberg 1934, rev. ed. 1971). Anomalies were also reported here in the 1970s.

In 1958 Dr. William Bell of North Carolina photographed a spirelike item in 40 feet of seawater west of South Bimini that was setting in a sort of double cogIike base with about 20 slabs of granite nearby. The photographs showed unusual fogging.
In 1958 Dr. J. Manson Valentine began a series of aerial surveys starting on the western side from Bimini down to Orange Cay. Dozens of bottom patterns were sighted and included "long, straight lines, double margined tracks, angular or trapezoidal configurations, circular areas and many other enigmatic figures on the bottom" (Explorers journal, Dec. 1979). His most controversial discovery occurred when he and some associates were taken by "Bonefish Sam" to do some recreational diving 3/4 mile off of "Paradise Point" (North Bimini). Manson recognized the 1,900-foot-long assemblage of stones forming a reversed letter "J" and the two parallel lines to the east as being a megalithic site, now known as the "Bimini Road" or "Bimini Wall" - though it is actually neither (Muse News, June 1969). Manson continued photographing anomalies: right angled, triangular, and rectangular features between Beach Cays and South Riding Rocks; isolated rectangles and "an assemblage of abutting rectangles on a grand scale, dimly but positively delineated" north of Orange Cay; a row of large designs lined up off of the northwest coast of New Providence and forms like rectangles, circles, hexagons, etc.; an "assemblage of biserial lines" near Guinchos Cay; a network of straight lines "intersecting at right, obtuse and acute angles" with other "ghost patterns" (vague outlines) between Diamond Point and the Tongue-of-the-Ocean; and when flying a commercial liner at 36,000 feet near the Tongue-of-the-Ocean sighted "black lines at right angles forming Ts and enclosing enormous rectangles or trapezoids." One area which has become more obvious is "East Site" (east of East Bimini), containing features now designated as "the Dike" and "the Rectangle" (1/2 by 1/4 mile in size), as well as straight and intersecting lines. By far the most unusual feature investigated was near Moselle Shoals and resembled "an arrangement of cell-like units" 100 yards long and resembling a human foot with many toes. It was formed of hexagons, the smallest being 12 feet, with many having hexagonal depressions in the sand -clearly not a natural feature!

Manson's associate Jim Richardson also made numerous discoveries on the Bank, including: a feature formed by a double row of stones near Joulter Cay, two straight lines near Russell Light that ran seven miles converging into polygonal holes of which one was blocked by large stones, and two of the zoomorphic effigy mounds of East Bimini (the "Fish" and "Cat").

While flying over the Grand Bahama Bank in 1967 oceanographer Dimitri Rebikoff sighted a rectangular feature approximately 1/4 of a mile long in 18 feet of water. Later that year he photographed a feature off of Pine Cay resembling a cursive capital letter "E". Manson showed Dimitri his "Road" photographs and Dimitri decided to do a photogrammetric study of it and to take samples. The results were presented in two meetings on French Culture TV and at Musee l'Homme with top scientists in the fields of prehistory and sedimentary geology. When shown the photomosaic of the "Road" they were asked if they knew of any other natural forms like that, to which all responded in the negative, as did those at Miami University and Woods Hole Oceanic Institute. The opinion of all present was that it was "cyclopean megalithic structures." Despite the wide multidisciplinary background of those assembled a Florida geologist had stated that the "Road" was nothing more than recent Pleistocene beachrock and only a few thousand years old (via C-14 dating).

Analysis had shown that the stone was "micrite," which is formed when "rainwater loaded with acid carbon dioxide" dissolves porous oolitic limestone and lets "calcium carbonate crystallize by evaporation further down the porous rock" (Explorers Journal, Sept. 1979). In over 12 years of taking samples on all parts of the "Road" NONE of our samples have been found by geologists to be Pleistocene beachrock and most show no obvious bedding planes. ["Calcarenite," a longer forming beachrock, is also present.] Later, samples submitted by Dr. Zink for Neutron Activation Analysis showed significant trace element discrepancies, the "Road" showing less of them- indicating they had been on the surface longer. Since there was a period when all of Bimini was underwater any C-14 dates would be highly compromised. Further exploration of the "Road" by the Rebikoffs showed that: "Amazingly, a corrected overcut has the appearnce of a trenching machine cut, rather than made by hand." Along similar lines in 1997-1998 I discovered a long cut exhibiting extreme erosion on two adjacent stones that would have to have been made by some kind of saw. The Rebikoffs had also noted that many of the large stones were supported by smaller square and even truncated pyramidal pillars. Ada observed that the undersides of the large stones were flat and parallel to the sea floor. Dimitri had observed that whoever had built the "Road" used the "live rock engineenng system" (used in the ancient Mediterranean); the only system "capable of defying millenniums of wave action."

Dr. David Zirik's "Poseidia" expeditions during the 1970s produced even further proof of man's ancient presence in the Bahamas by discovering the first identified artifacts and additional proof of the artificial nature of the "Road" (The Stones Of Atlantis -New And Revised, New York: Prentice Hall, 1990). They established that the "Road" was on a flat surface (not a slope), that the "Road" actually "crosses over several fossilized curved beachrock formations," that two furrow spacing patterns were present, that certain stones showed specific orientations to each other as well as astronomical orientations, that it was 14 degrees out of alignment with the shore, picked up metal returns under the sea floor, found an artificial trench in the sea floor, did Uranium-Thorium dating of corings, used Neutron Activation Analysis on samples of the "Road," beachrock, and sea floor, and did a side-scan sonar survey that revealed several recti-linear shapes and parallel lines. The artifacts included: a "tongue and groove" stone, a stylized marble animal head, a metate cemented into the ocean floor, the "keystone:' (divisible by 10 centimeters at every measurement), and a stone with drill holes. They match no known culture.

In 1968 off of Andros Robert Brush photographed a rectangular structure, parallel lines that seem to connect some of the isles, and a 1,OOO foot diameter triple concentric circle of stones.

Most of the Cay Sal Bank anomalies have been investigated and reported by Herbert Sawinski (who also credits Paul Tzimoulis and Bob Kline) during the 1970s. The "Anguilla Arc" is a large semicircle of stones extending from shore oceanward and then back to shore. Like the "Road" it is composed of large stones and exhibits similar patterns. About 75 miles distant at Cay Sal island there is an underwater cave that appears to be an ancient quarry with cut rectangular stones. Herb also photographed petroglyphs at Andros from the tidal line to about 15 feet below the surface, attesting to ancient man's
presence.

Other finds include Count Pino Turolla's July 1968 discovery of 44 marble columns in a circle (seaward of the "Road") that were 3 to 6 feet in diameter and 3 to 14 feet in length with some still standing (Argosy, Sept. 1971). The Marine Archeology Research Society had discovered a 33-foot long 30-foot-wide stone wall. Diggirig down near a structure off of Andros Robert Marx found "a ceramic face of a man, a carved piece of marble, and more than a dozen ceramic shards." Others that made significant discoveries were Trigg Adams, Carter Lord, and Richard Wingate. Talbot Lindstrom and Steven Proctor formed the Scientific Exploration and Archeology Society and discovered "Proctor's Road," consisting of clumps of stone at regular intervals running in a straight line that cuts diagonally across old beach lines (Mysteries of Atlantis Revisited by Edgar Evans Cayce et al, San Francisco: 1988). In 1995 Bill Keefe discovered a "Road" stone with a paraboloid mortise.

Since 1989 Quest For Atlantis conferences (created by Dr. Joan Hanley and Vanda Osmon), Joan's GAEA Project, and our own The Atlantis Organization (with "Project: Alta" and APEX Institute) have been extending the search with new methodologies. The Q.F.A. conferences discoveries include: new features on the "Road," "Donnie's Stone" (discovered by Donnie Fields) which is identical in style with Dr. Zink's "keystone," three pieces of a broken monolith originally over 16 feet high, Raymond Leigh, Jr.'s discovery that the "Fish" and "Cat" mounds were part of an entire mound complex, an underwater "pentagon" acres in extent, and the "Sea Horse Mound." Joan obtained an archaeological permit for the mound area and had ground penetration radar done on the "Rectangular Mound."
In 1993 "Project: Alta" did the first side-scan sonar survey since Dr. Zink's, recording at least 30 anomalies to the west and south of Bimini, including a large underwater hexagon. A few months later GAEA Project did a longer side-scan project and discovered other anomalies.

In 1995 "Project: Alta" continued underwater investigations and I retrieved a piece of granite from the "Road" and later discovered an in situ square stone with a tenon running along the edge.

In 1997 we began a two-part project (completed in 1998) incorporating extensive aerial surveys, side-scan sonar, and the first use of a submarine. The aerial surveys covered the northern Bank and included a circumnavigation of Andros. Overall we observed: dark regular features near the dropoff at Moselle, long parallel lines, what looked like a possible multi- leveled structure miles north of Bimini, what appeared to be two parallel walls diagonal to the bottom features about 27 miles northeast of Bimini, a feature shaped like a printed capital letter "E" hundreds of feet long off of Joulter Cay, relocated Dimitri's feature off of Pine Cay, relocated several of Manson's targets at Conch Sound, relocated the parallel lines that Robert Brush had found and several large circular features (not "blue holes"), and discovered a "pentagon," acres in extent, east of South Cat Cay which we photographed and videotaped. We obtained G.P.S. coordinates whenever possible. The submarine and support vessel went to Anguilla Cay to investigate the "Anguilla Arc" and an alleged "pyramid" (which turned out to be a seamount); then investigated targets from the 1993 sidescan. We found rectangular sandy areas down at 110 feet off of Gun Cay, the remnants of an ancient waterfall out from "Entrance Point," and a 25-30 foot long generally rectilinear stone at 140 feet. Results of the side-scan survey showed several anomalies. One was a 65 by 31 foot rectangle with features suggestive of structures. Another resembled the remnants of a city: a multitiered structure with what looks like a staircase going up the front and a doorway at the top, two post-lintel systems, a smaller structure with a staircase, vertical support elements, and a wall, and several smaller rectangular structures in an apparent arrangement. All of the features are of sizes proportionate to human architecture.

In August of '98 Joan Hanley had prior target areas side-scanned as well as the "Road" by Dr. Michael Faught and was the first to employ a "tech diver" team for deeper "hands-on" investigation. They found what looked like mountain trails with switchbacks, terraces, and rectangular patterns on the seafloor.

In May '99 we attempted to verify our '98 targets with side-scan, a special drop camera, and a submarine and support vessel. Though unable to locate the proper area due to a G..P.S./side-scan interface error, the submarine revealed what the divers had seen: things resembling trails and terraces. My videocam picked up what looked like a rectangular cut stone at 320 feet.

The most recent report is from Reuters (May 14, 2001) and concerns images obtained by side-scan sonar off of Cuba. Paulina Zelitsky of Advanced Digital Communications has been involved in a joint operation with the Cuban government and Geomar in a scientific survey which has included a search for bullion, treasure and wrecks. At a depth of 2,200 feet they detected a large plateau with rolling white sand plains and (as she describes) "clear man-made architectural designs" that (seen from above) "resemble pyramids, roads, and buildings" because of their symmetrical regularity and which she has compared with ancient Meso-American cities. The site covers several miles and is in proximity to an "extinct volcano, geological faults, and a river bed" indicating it was once above the surface (Ancient American,vol. 40, "Lost. City Found Off Cuba" by Andrew Collins et al). No videotape has been released at this time, but the plans include a joint investigation by the Cuban Academy of Sciences and the National Geographic Society. Though planned for early summer, it hadn't occurred by the end of August but early September reports indicate the work is still going forward.

At this time in history, as at no other, do we finally have the resources to objectively and conclusively verify, or dismiss, extraordinary claims. The discoveries that I have listed have, for the most part, had their existences technologically verified. My question is this: Why has so little been done with something of such transcendent historical importance? I might also add why are they being ignored? .

William Donato has an M.A. in anthropology and archaeology.

[Horus]

From Atlantis Rising Magazine #42

EDITOR’S NOTE: In issue #30 of Atlantis Rising, archaeologist William Donato reported on the ongoing Caribbean research over the last thirty years in support of the notion that the remains of a forgotten civilization can be detected in the region. Recent discoveries from Cuba and elsewhere have stimulated conjecture that Edgar Cayce’s famous prophecy that Atlantis might be expected to surface in the region
could be nearing fulfillment.
Now in 2003 the recent discovery by the husband-and-wife diving team of Greg and Lora Little, of a giant stone platform near Andros Island in the Bahamas, has added new fuel to the fire (see Atlantis Rising #40). The Littles were following up on anomalies first spotted in the 1960s by Dr. Manson Valentine. Discovery of the Bimini “J Road” site by Valentine in 1967 caused a sensation, only to be dismissed by a skeptical establishment as ordinary “beach rock.” Subsequent research has clearly ruled out the beach rock theory, but, unfortunately, the public has never been sufficiently informed on the matter. The public has also NOT been properly informed that the J-road was only one of many anomalous sites observed in the area. Most such features have yet to be properly investigated, but there have been recent efforts, aside from the Greg and Lora Little investigation, to change that situation.  This past summer William Donato accompanied by investigative technologist Jonathan Eagle, as well as Don and Sally Tondro, set out to take a closer look at several such features.
First on their list was “The Pentagon” near South Cat Cay a spot previously discussed and photographed from the air by several researchers including Manson Valentine and the A.R.E.’s Dr. Doug Richards. No one had looked at it from sea level. The “Rectangle” near East Bimini had been noticed by Dimitri Rebikoff, Jim Richardson and Valentine. Dr. David Zink used a type of suction dredge, going down 7 to 9 feet which he mentioned in his book “The Stones of Atlantis,” but found nothing.
Donato and his colleagues set out to establish accurate G.P.S coordinates for these sites, and to investigate and document with video strange 1,600-foot parallel lines which can be seen in satellite images east of East Bimini. They also wanted to gather ocean bottom data west of Bimini, to look closely at the “circles” south of South Bimini, and to further investigate the “J Road”.
The exploration was meagerly funded by A.P.E.X., a non-profit institute. Here is Donato’s day-by-day account of this past summer’s expedition.

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Atlantis in the Bahamas: 2003
by William Donato

We arrived at “Air Flight,” a Ft. Lauderdale airport, and launched our aerial survey/locating plan.  After brief discussions with the pilot, Thomas Coleman, we took off. I had previously sent him photocopies of the “Pentagon” and coordinates that Jonathan Eagle had derived through trigonometry. The calculations were made from a photocopy.  The sky was overcast in areas. We had passed near Cat Cay when Coleman spotted a dark area in the distance and we soon realized we had found the “Pentagon!” I knew Jonathan would be gratified that his co-ordinates had checked out. I told Coleman to circle and get G.P.S. co-ordinates. He also flew directly over the spot. I noticed another, slightly larger feature to the east and asked him to fly there. It seemed to have a generally “hexagonal” configuration defined by marine growth. There appeared to be about three surface vessels nearby. The vegetation was thicker here than on the Pentagon. [We were to learn later that the Pentagon was defined by sea grass.] We also circled the “Hexagon” and took several sets of G.P.S. co-ordinates. Later, at the Bimini airport, Coleman handed over the coordinates we had fixed. Before leaving, I told him where to look for the East Bimini zoomorphic effigy mounds. [Later he would tell me that he easily located the Sea Horse Mound shown on page 43 of Atlantis Rising #30.]
When I arrived in North Bimini, Jonathan was waiting at the docks. We discussed our plans for the next day.  Though we had intended to investigate the “Pentagon” first, we opted to do it on Friday instead as we needed the best high tides for the “Rectangle” and “Parallel Lines.”

Tuesday, July 15, 2003

We headed our boat out around South Bimini and then up and in. After dropping anchor Jonathan and I headed out in the dinghy (a Boston Whaler type). He was following directions on a hand-held unit. I told Jonathan we seemed to be heading in the opposite direction from where we should be going. He did a 180 and we soon came upon the “L-shaped” outer edge of the “Rectangle,” which was well defined by sea grass.  Our goal had been to determine whether conventional tools would work or whether sub-bottom profiling would be necessary to find any possible stones beneath the feature. One of the first things taught in introductory archaeology is that vegetation patterns can help point out potential sites.  The large and precise geometric patterns which have been discovered in the Bahamas must be growing in those shapes because something local is different —a different thermal gradient, different chemistry, or different electromagnetic (or other) fields.

These are not “Crop Circles”: they have persisted here for a long time.  In 1974 I took a picture of the “Rectangle” from the air and would bet it had been there for centuries. I think an underlying stone foundation is the most plausible explanation. The compacted sand also lends itself to the theory that there could be stone (or other) foundations at some unknown depth. Those formations, over time, could have collected various organisms and sand, subsequently anchored by vegetation, which continued until we have what we see today.  Unfortunately our conventional investigative techniques won’t do the job and we will have to resort to other penetration technologies. Our preference would be sub-bottom profiling because it will not do any physical damage. Under ideal conditions it can penetrate up to 55 feet into the ocean floor and provide conclusive proof whether stone is present. If stone is found at 10 to 12 feet or more it will date to the 10,000 B.C, period, which would be perfect from our standpoint.  Another possible theory is that something which is no longer there is creating these “ghost patterns.” If so, the situation would be even more confusing.  At this point the stone (or other) foundation theory seems to be the most reasonable.

We next headed south and east to investigate the circles recently investigated by Dr. Greg Little for the Association of Research and Enlightenment (A.R.E.), the Edgar Cayce group (see Atlantis Rising #40, page 10). The site had shown up on Jonathan’s satellite photos. We soon located a smaller circle, actually more of an oval, under about 10 to 12 feet of water. Sea grass defined most of it except a “crater” of sand just east of the eastward pointing bow. It was here that our probes hit rock. I estimate that from the center of the depression the hard material was about 2 feet down in the sand. The circle itself was about 60 feet north to south and longer east to west. We stretched out my measuring tape to its 50-foot limit and there were still 10s of feet to go (at least 80?). The depression itself was about 10 feet across.  Next, we went to the 200-foot circle which we found with no difficulty.  A flag had been placed in the center at the highest point, reminding us of a golf green. It was barely a foot  deep, at that point, and a definite navigation hazard. I probed again in various locations. It was in the sandy areas, about 4 feet deep that I hit bottom. About 18 inches to 2 feet into the sand I hit what was apparently rock. There was some variation in depth as the bottom sloped slightly.  The extreme shallowness came as a surprise to me.  We then called it a day.

Wednesday, July 16, 2003

We headed out to the western side of Bimini to obtain some contour data with a program that Jonathan had set up. He had constructed a rig with his computer, a G.P.S. unit and the “pinger” from his drop and tow camera. We traveled in a zigzag pattern from roughly 120 foot (sometimes less) to off the edge of the shelf of the Grand Bahama Bank (the drop-off). We were looking for any “spikes”—abrupt rises in the ocean floor that might be archaeological features or hazards to any future side-scan sonar work. Jonathan had me monitor images on the device registering the depth contour and his computer which was logged data (depth and G.P.S. co-ordinates). While he was directing the procedure and doing all of the hard work, I got to watch the monitors and videotape unusual returns. Several were most interesting.  One of the more interesting returns reminded me of terraces. Some even more evocative returns showed things sticking up from the bottom that could be wrecks, intrusive debris, or possibly even “in situ” cultural remains or structures. They are certainly worth investigating. What I find significant is that I looked toward shore and noticed that some of the most interesting returns were not far from the latitude of the Bimini Road. I doubt that this is coincidental as our side-scan returns were within about 2 miles of it too. There is a first drop-off at between 120 and 140 feet and then the main one at 320 feet. After this we did a dive on the Bimini Road. Jonathan helped me with the cameras. I was to find later in the day that the camera had apparently bumped the dessicant which switched it off, meaning that the only video was of me putting the camera into the housing—a freak accident (remedied on a following dive).

Thursday, July 17, 2003

Once again we headed to the western side of Bimini to investigate1600-foot parallel lines which Jonathan
had detected in the satellite photos. As we went, we collected more contour data. The plan was to follow the coordinates of the lines while towing one person holding the tow/drop camera.  As with the “Pentagon” and “Rectangle” sand and sea grass were the primary components. Depth was sufficient for sub-bottom profiling. Jonathan made one very interesting observation while doing this—though the water at the surface was the typical 78 degrees or so, near the bottom the temperature was, as he described, “hot.”  Though thermoclines are common enough, here the temperature gradient was inverted—a rare phenomena. Temperatures in the upper eighties or nineties are difficult to explain.  Dr. William Hutton (“The Hutton Commentaries”) has speculated that there may have been a magma breakthrough in the past that penetrated the carbonate material and may have brought various minerals close to the surface and that the fracture runs through Bimini. Is it possible that there is a geothermal component that may be heating the waters and be responsible for some of the sulfur in Bahamian waters? Once in a channel in the mangroves, some colleagues and I also noted “hot” water, possibly in the ninety-degree range, flowing quickly.  Sulfur can frequently be smelled in the swamps, and one wonders how much is due to organic decomposition and how much is due to mineral deposits.

Friday, July 18, 2003

We followed the co-ordinates toward the Pentagon, running into some fairly shallow water about 2 miles from the target. When we arrived, the shape was discernible, though not as much as from the air. It was defined by the ubiquitous sea grass and there were sandy areas. Depth varied from about 10 to 14 or 15 feet. Jonathan and I swam to the edge at the north and then back into the general feature, probing in sandy and sea growth areas. We found some “recent artifacts,” probably from some vessel—one appeared to be cement and wood, another had a lot of nails defining the edge. Both were rectangular.

We did not detect a stone foundation here either. Fortunately the depth is sufficient for sub-bottom profiling.  Because of the depth and tide situation we did not have the necessary “window of opportunity” to investigate the possible Hexagon to the east.  We did stop by and dive on the western side of Moxon Rocks. One of the features I had previously thought was a top opening into a cave turned out to be a fallen section in a depression on the side, though there was another opening a little to the south. The fish were plentiful and Jonathan even took a shot at one with his Hawaiian Sling, just missing it.  We next went to the Bimini Road again to take more pictures. Conditions were good. This time I taped the dessicant pack to the video cam. I finally succeeded in getting video footage over a fair amount of the Road and good photos. We covered the nice alignments on the “Rebikoff’s Pier” section (the two parallel lines inside of the “J”), the “J”, and stones in between.

Overall it was one of the three best photo shoots I’ve ever had on the Road with a large variety of stone features documented. I found a squarish stone with an indentation which I cleaned off to discover that it had a mortise running the length. It is on the videotape and was photographed. I saw a smaller stone with straight edges which Jonathan had lifted up on one end. It was a little over 20 inches long, about 16 inches wide, and 6 1/2 inches thick. The aforementioned features are as much a part of the Bimini Road as the large rounded stones, simply less numerous, yet they are clearly not “beach rock” and are definitely “shaped” and apparently architectural in nature. One other class of stone feature was also fairly well distributed—large (several feet in size) slabs that look like fallen wall sections.  These were closer to the “J”.  Both of us noted how rich in life the “J” was—coral, vegetation, and thousands of beautiful fish —while the Rebikoff’s Pier section is comparatively barren. There is no doubt in my mind that much of what I saw was artifactual and of an architectural nature: prepositioned alignments with definite placement patterns still remaining in the less disturbed sections with evenly spaced furrows following right-angled orientations; smaller clearly cut stones of a particular narrow size-range; mortises on in-situ stones; and large slabs possibly in the 5-foot range. It looks like what is left after some great movements or shaking.

Saturday, July 19, 2003

On the night before Jonathan and I had discussed his going out for another day of collecting ocean bottom data. Since we had enough in the non-profit fund (only an extra $500 was needed), plans were made for him to go out again while I got ready to fly out.  Thomas Coleman was my pilot again and I showed him where to look for the various mounds I had mentioned before (Fish, Cat, Dolphin, etc.). He proved to have a fairly good eye for spotting them. The flight back to Florida was fairly quick. We accomplished all of our objectives and even a few extras. The quality of the data looks good and some, such as the ocean bottom data, should be useful to others. Sub-bottom profiling is a necessity for the “Pentagon” and the “Rectangle.” If stone foundations are found at or below the 10- to 12-foot range they will date to circa the 10th millennium period and ipso facto establish that the currently observable images are remnants of prior structures that would have required a people with precise knowledge of mathematics and the ability to plan on a large scale, as well as to cut and move large stones—in other words, a civilization.  The clues, hints, and tantalizing anomalies are all still there—and spread out over large areas. The technology, and resolve, are present. Verification of a civilization in the Bahamas during the Paleolithic would rewrite history. We have the ability to do that, one step at a time, with proper funding.

-end-

[Desiree]

Hi Paul,

Hi Des (Is it okay if I call you that or would you prefer Desiree?),

Either one is fine with me, I'm not picky.

I'm 99.9% sure that the Azores/Sargasso story involving Bill is false or at the very least a garbled account.  250 miles SW are the Abyssal Plains 3 miles deep, and Bill has only made expeditions to Bimini, Cay Sal, Andros and Cat.  I emailed it to him just in case.  It's so sensational and outrageous that he'll probably get a kick out of it if he hasn't seen it already.

I'd be interested in hearing what he says.  This actually happened the same year as the Cuba find (2001), but it was overshadowed by 9/11, like most other things were that year.  It is incredible, but I have heard that the U.S. Navy has been involved in other Atlantis related cover-ups in the past.  In fact, when Paula Zelitsky first found the Cuba site, a U.S. sub was there, too.

I just read the articles from AR, the information is interesting, but I have yet to see anything new that I haven't gone over with Greg in the past (he and I have been talking over the internet for about a year and a half now).  Is there any recent discovery that Donato has made that has been without Greg?  You said he is the only archaeologist that you know who believes in Atlantis. Is there anything specific (in terms of evidence) that either of you can point to that gives you reason for that belief?  Thanks.

Desiree

[Horus]

I just read the articles from AR, the information is interesting, but I have yet to see anything new that I haven't gone over with Greg in the past (he and I have been talking over the internet for about a year and a half now).  Is there any recent discovery that Donato has made that has been without Greg?  You said he is the only archaeologist that you know who believes in Atlantis. Is there anything specific (in terms of evidence) that either of you can point to that gives you reason for that belief? 

For Atlantis in general, or specifically in the Bahamas? For simplicity's sake and to narrow things down, let's just talk about the Bahamas. It depends on how you qualify evidence and it depends on the specific hypothesis it supports. 

There's the cartographic, geographic and geological evidence linking the Bahamas to Plato's and/or Cayce's accounts.  Dr. Wyman Harrison aka "William Hutton" aka "The Geologist" has been working with Jonathan Eagle on establishing the mineral evidence at Bimini documented at the huttoncommenttaries.com, and Ron Smith has collected some of the same at Cat Island and found many other correspondences with Plato.

The numerous other geometric anomallies (pentagon, hexagon, etc.) are qualified leads, but aren't considered evidence until they are investigated and inspected up close to establish artifactuality. There are also terraces and stairs in the Gulf Stream dropoff.  You've gone over all of these items with Greg?  These were located years before the Littles entered the scene in 2003.   

Since 1989, Bill Donato has spent most of his time on the Bimini Road, and no one has researched that thing more than him -not even David Zink.  I have begged him in recent years to let the Road go, but I guess it was important to collaborate with Greg in order to put the skeptics in their place, and officially establish artifactuality once and for all.  Bill suspects something older and possibly Atlantean may be beneath it and so does John Van Auken.   I don't know about that, but I believe that it was used by various Mediterranean cultures including Phoenicians and Romans conducting trans-Atlantic trade with the Maya. That seems to be the tale the evidence tells so far.

The best evidence for any Atlantis location hypothesis anywhere is going to be in situ artifacts or building structures on the sea floor --preferably lodged in the Pleistocene strata, or at a depth that renders them extremely ancient according to sea level studies, so there can be no doubt that they are antediluvian and thus a match to Plato's and Cayce's timelines.  That's what's lacking in nearly every other theory out there, but not in ours anymore!

Sidescan sonar picked up structures in 1998 and that was the best existing lead for finding ruins until we rescanned the area last November, and Elsie and Krista Brown dove on them in June for the Littles.  [The Browns were with the November TAO expedition too.]  APEX gets the credit for these, and they could only have been above the surface 12,000 years ago!   

Blessings,
Paul

[Horus]

I'm 99.9% sure that the Azores/Sargasso story involving Bill is false or at the very least a garbled account.  250 miles SW are the Abyssal Plains 3 miles deep, and Bill has only made expeditions to Bimini, Cay Sal, Andros and Cat.  I emailed it to him just in case.  It's so sensational and outrageous that he'll probably get a kick out of it if he hasn't seen it already.

I'd be interested in hearing what he says.

 

Hi Des, I got a reply from him today:

"This report came out several YEARS ago and I thought it was suspicious and didn't really believe it. Frank and I discused it. Ancient American is now on #74 (41 was some time ago). I've never been to the Azores."

"Frank" is Frank Joseph, the publisher of Ancient American, a famous author, Atlantologist and a member of TAO. 

So this officially puts that rumor to rest, hopefully.

Blessings,
Paul

[Desiree]

Hi Paul,

Frank Joseph is not only a famous author he is also a former Neo-Nazi and apparently a convicted ****! 

Eventually, Frank Collin was convicted of the sexually molestation of young boys in 1980 and served three years in prison before being paroled in 1983. He abandoned National Socialism and began writing under the pseudonym "Frank Joseph". In 1987 his book, The Destruction of Atlantis: Compelling Evidence of the Sudden Fall of the Legendary Civilization was published. Collin is now a self-described neo-pagan and edits The Ancient American, which promotes the theory of diffusion of peoples in and out of the Americas during the Ancient aeons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Joseph

We have been over his past several times around here.

Thanks for the reply from Bill.  But the report didn't say that he had anything to do with the find, but that he was contacted at the time of the finding, 2001.  Was he?

[Desiree]

Hi Paul, 

There's the cartographic, geographic and geological evidence linking the Bahamas to Plato's and/or Cayce's accounts.  Dr. Wyman Harrison aka "William Hutton" aka "The Geologist" has been working with Jonathan Eagle on establishing the mineral evidence at Bimini documented at the huttoncommenttaries.com, and Ron Smith has collected some of the same at Cat Island and found many other correspondences with Plato.

Hi Paul, I think something got lost in the translation here, how do you mean that it corrresponds with Plato?  The only way that it could would be that it was in that 9,000 to 10,000 bc time frame (or older). Are you suggesting that it dates to that old?

The numerous other geometric anomallies (pentagon, hexagon, etc.) are qualified leads, but aren't considered evidence until they are investigated and inspected up close to establish artifactuality. There are also terraces and stairs in the Gulf Stream dropoff.  You've gone over all of these items with Greg?  These were located years before the Littles entered the scene in 2003. 

Greg has actually reinvestigated many of the old sites mapped out by Valentine, Berlitz and others.  He also as interviewed a lot of the people that have been associated with many of the claims of findings over the year.  His approach is totally scientific, and I totally respect it.  I personally think that he has done more for the cause of the A.R.E. (and Atlantis in the Atlantic) than any other researcher, ever. 

Geometric anomalies (especially if they are underwater) really have to be investigated up close and have samples taken of them before they are confirmed as "evidence."  Yonugani definitely looks artificial, too, but mainstream science sure doesn't think so.

The best evidence for any Atlantis location hypothesis anywhere is going to be in situ artifacts or building structures on the sea floor --preferably lodged in the Pleistocene strata, or at a depth that renders them extremely ancient according to sea level studies, so there can be no doubt that they are antediluvian and thus a match to Plato's and Cayce's timelines.  That's what's lacking in nearly every other theory out there, but not in ours anymore!

If they turn out to be actual buildings.  Not only could they be artificial, they could also be simply materials dumped overboard, sort of like we suspect is the case with Cuba.  Greg's latest pictures certainly look as if he has found some underwater ruins (and they are certainly more convincing than anything that Georgeos Montexano - Spain and Robert Sarmast - Cyprus) have come up with.  Is he claiming he has found Atlantis yet?  Nope, because he has a very sound, scientific method, which is what will be needed to convince everyone.

Desiree

[Horus]

Hi Des,

Hi Paul, I think something got lost in the translation here, how do you mean that it corrresponds with Plato?  The only way that it could would be that it was in that 9,000 to 10,000 bc time frame (or older). Are you suggesting that it dates to that old?

Yes, the Grand Bahama Bank was one large island 12,000 years ago before sea levels rose at the end of the Pleistocene deglaciation to flood its wide plains.  It is "oblong" and was a relatively flat plain approximately 375 miles X 230 miles.  This a close match to Plato's dimensions and characteristics of 2000X3000 stadia or 345 miles X 230 miles.  See: http://www.platosatlantis.com/Locating%20the%20Island%20Continent.htm
Plato said it was shallowly sunken and indeed the Bahama platform is.  It's name is derived from Spanish baja mar or "shallow sea" as it posed a hazardous barrier to shipping.  It's the only sunken object in the Atlantic Ocean which matches these dimensions.  The original size and shape of the island and its current shallowness is very obvious when viewing it from space:
http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/4570/Bahamas.A2002347.1555.250m.jpg

Greg has actually reinvestigated many of the old sites mapped out by Valentine, Berlitz and others.  He also as interviewed a lot of the people that have been associated with many of the claims of findings over the year.  His approach is totally scientific, and I totally respect it.  I personally think that he has done more for the cause of the A.R.E. (and Atlantis in the Atlantic) than any other researcher, ever.

 

I am well-aware of all of the valuable efforts Greg and Lora have made for the cause, but well before them Dr. Doug Richards, Dr. Joan Hanley, William Donato, Dr. Joseph Schor and Joseph Jahoda put decades and millions of dollars into research toward validation of Cayce's readings. Some of this is not as well-publicized as the Littles work for various reasons i can't get into here.  The Littles enjoy the benefits of having their own publishing company and a considerable amount of time and other resources to spend on these ventures. They are credited for discovering the Andros Platform, which, according to the dating, is much more recent than Atlantis, and likely an early Phoenician or Tartessian construct.  The "wall" structure they just found off Joulter Cay may be more from that same, more-recent culture, but hopefully it can be dated to Atlantis.  They did reinspect some older sites from Valentine, Brush and Adams, but not so much the TAO and Gaea Project leads because those are largely unpublished.  I am very 'pro Greg' but I don't put him on a pedestal or take his opinions as Gospel.  We all work together, collaborate, cooperate, and share, and this is not a competition. We support the Littles and they support us.

Yonugani definitely looks artificial, too, but mainstream science sure doesn't think so.

Western geologists don't think so; Japanese geologists do think so!  However, after geologist Robert Schoch inspected the formation, he conceded that it could have been "altered by man" which is all that matters! 

If they turn out to be actual buildings.  Not only could they be artificial, they could also be simply materials dumped overboard, sort of like we suspect is the case with Cuba.  Greg's latest pictures certainly look as if he has found some underwater ruins (and they are certainly more convincing than anything that Georgeos Montexano - Spain and Robert Sarmast - Cyprus) have come up with.  Is he claiming he has found Atlantis yet?  Nope, because he has a very sound, scientific method, which is what will be needed to convince everyone.

I am fairly sure they are buildings because I have all of the data and have seen uniformly-laid out structures go on and on and on more like a town than a dump, and as Greg's report noted "The photos revealed that the sides of some of the formations seemed to be made from small stone blocks, some of which sat squarely on top of each other. Several square or rectangular stones appeared to be embedded into the bottom, especially at the corners of the rectangular structures."   Blocks squarely on top of each other is not a typical characteristic of a dump.

As for "Frank Joseph", I don't know him, have never communicated with him in any way, and I have seen those reports of his dark past before.  I asked Bill about this a few years ago and he said that Frank reformed a long time ago, and has been happily-married, has travelled and written for many years now.  Apparently, people can and do change, and there is hope for everyone.

Lastly, Bill knows nothing about that alleged discovery in the Mid-Atlantic as he stated.

Namaste,
Paul

[Desiree]

Hi Paul,

Yes, the Grand Bahama Bank was one large island 12,000 years ago before sea levels rose at the end of the Pleistocene deglaciation to flood its wide plains.  It is "oblong" and was a relatively flat plain approximately 375 miles X 230 miles.  This a close match to Plato's dimensions and characteristics of 2000X3000 stadia or 345 miles X 230 miles.  See: http://www.platosatlantis.com/Locating%20the%20Island%20Continent.htm
Plato said it was shallowly sunken and indeed the Bahama platform is.  It's name is derived from Spanish baja mar or "shallow sea" as it posed a hazardous barrier to shipping.  It's the only sunken object in the Atlantic Ocean which matches these dimensions.  The original size and shape of the island and its current shallowness is very obvious when viewing it from space:
http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/4570/Bahamas.A2002347.1555.250m.jpg

I'm actually not sure we need an exact match, I don't mind playing with the dimensions a little bit if other factors match, however, I agree with the overall point.  There are three areas that I think may have been Atlantis - the Azores, Canaries or Bahamas, and so far, the Bahamas have the most going for them!

Nice maps, I think I will print a couple here.

Yonugani definitely looks artificial, too, but mainstream science sure doesn't think so.

Western geologists don't think so; Japanese geologists do think so!  However, after geologist Robert Schoch inspected the formation, he conceded that it could have been "altered by man" which is all that matters! 

Do you know the names of any Japanese geologists that have come right out and said that they're artificial?  Cause so far I have just heard from Schoch, who I believe is simply trying to make an effort to look conservative for his profession.

I am well-aware of all of the valuable efforts Greg and Lora have made for the cause, but well before them Dr. Doug Richards, Dr. Joan Hanley, William Donato, Dr. Joseph Schor and Joseph Jahoda put decades and millions of dollars into research toward validation of Cayce's readings. Some of this is not as well-publicized as the Littles work for various reasons i can't get into here.  The Littles enjoy the benefits of having their own publishing company and a considerable amount of time and other resources to spend on these ventures.

The only one I have heard of from your list is Bill Donato, and I have been researching Atlantis for a couple of years now.  They may well have done some good research into the area, but what good is it if they don't publish it or make their discoveries known?  How can we examine the processes they have used if they aren't made known to science and subject to replication and peer review?  The only way that anyone will be credited with discovering Atlantis is to produce clear, identifiable evidence of it, and make it known to people with nothing to hide.

That is why I like Greg's research so much.  It isn't that he is the only one who has ever made any discoveries in the Atlantic, it's just that he comes right out and shows what he has, without making any sensationlist claims about it, he just reports what he has. I have also had conversations with him about previous discoveries in the Atlantic - Ray Brown's pyramid with a crystal in it, for instance.  People have been trying to claim that as authentic evidence for years, he has come right out and told me that it was (most likely) another hoax.

I am fairly sure they are buildings because I have all of the data and have seen uniformly-laid out structures go on and on and on more like a town than a dump, and as Greg's report noted "The photos revealed that the sides of some of the formations seemed to be made from small stone blocks, some of which sat squarely on top of each other. Several square or rectangular stones appeared to be embedded into the bottom, especially at the corners of the rectangular structures."   Blocks squarely on top of each other is not a typical characteristic of a dump.

I think what is lacking is a map of the area to see how it all relates to one another.  A silly question, have any intact buildings ever been discovered?  If they aren't intact, how do we know for sure that they are buildings?

As for "Frank Joseph", I don't know him, have never communicated with him in any way, and I have seen those reports of his dark past before.  I asked Bill about this a few years ago and he said that Frank reformed a long time ago, and has been happily-married, has travelled and written for many years now.  Apparently, people can and do change, and there is hope for everyone.

The one thing that still bugs me about Joseph is the fact that, for a long time, Nazis have been drawn to Atlantis, apparently even Neo-Nazis with some Jewish blood in them.  I think Atlantis is at it's best when it leaves the whole racial element out of it.   

Desiree

[Horus]

Hello Des,

There are three areas that I think may have been Atlantis - the Azores, Canaries or Bahamas, and so far, the Bahamas have the most going for them!

I totally agree, and I believe that these are the principal pieces of Atlantis as well as the area around Spartel island and Cuba too.  Until someone shows me a large flat, smooth plain on the Azores Plateau, I'm going with a Caribbean capital for Atlantis.

Do you know the names of any Japanese geologists that have come right out and said that they're artificial?

 

Yes = Dr. Masaaki Kimura, a marine geologist and his colleagues.  He was interviewed by Graham Hancock in Underworld, and he has been at the forefront of every news article on Yonaguni.   Here's the latest video clip of him and the ruins:
http://www.reuters.com/news/video/videoStory?videoId=64604

The only one I have heard of from your list is Bill Donato, and I have been researching Atlantis for a couple of years now.  They may well have done some good research into the area, but what good is it if they don't publish it or make their discoveries known? 

Yes that applies to a couple of them.  There's a lot of material, and it can take many years to become aware of it all.  I've been into this stuff (off and on) since the early '80s and I don't know it all. 

If you have The Mysteries of Atlantis Revisited you'll notice that it is co-written by Dr. Doug Richards, and the section on Bimini describes some of the activites of Gaea Project led by Dr. Joan Hanley. Dr. Richards also wrote a chapter in the Littles' 2003 book The A.R.E.'s Search for Atlantis   and he dove with Dr. David Zink in the Poseidia expeditions as early as 1976.  Some of this work was in the TV documentary series "In Search Of" hosted by Leonard Nimoy such as "In Search of Atlantis" and "In Search of the Bimini Wall", and a number of other documentaries in the 80s and 90s. 

Unfortunately, the website for Gaea Project went down years ago and Joan never put it back up.  She did very expensive and intense exploration work near Bimini in 1998 and no one knows what the results were.  She didn't share with TAO/APEX, and her reports could not be located at the A.R.E. though she claims to have submitted them.  It's very strange.  Sometimes people don't want their finds to "get away from them."   

This I think is part of the case with the Schor/FSU exploration at Giza in the late '90s which few people are aware of.  Their video documentary was never completed or released, nor were the results of the extensive ground-penetrating radar survey.  I got inside of that loop so found out some of it.  Other parts were examined by Robert Bauval in his book Secret Chamber: The Quest for the Hall of Records which was only published in the U.K. 

As for Bill Donato's work, it has only been mentioned briefly in a couple of books, he's been in a couple of documentaries on the Discovery Channel like "Dive to Atlantis" 1995, and written some articles for Atlantis Rising Magazine.  He doesn't do MBs or discussion lists, and only prints a newsletter once a year for members of the Atlantis Organization.  There will be a couple of websites but they are taking forever to get done, and that's partially my fault as I've been sidelined with injuries, illnesses, and other more pressing work since 2003.  They should be up this Fall.

The Littles are the most recent and most active of the explorers in the area, and therefore enjoy the most publicity.  They work toward PR too.  Greg has been a member of my Halls of Atlantis forum at Yahoo since 2001 when he first posted updates to the "Yucatan Hall of Records" research, and he has joined many other message boards and lists to keep people informed and advertise their research.  I'm glad, and I'm grateful for what he has shared with me, because before he got involved I could not get any information or straight answers from the A.R.E. whatsoever on Atlantis research even though I was a member! 

I have also had conversations with him about previous discoveries in the Atlantic - Ray Brown's pyramid with a crystal in it, for instance.  People have been trying to claim that as authentic evidence for years, he has come right out and told me that it was (most likely) another hoax.

Yes I had this discussion with him recently too.  Lots of people think its a hoax, simply because it sounds too good to be true, and so many hoaxes have been perpetrated on the public in the last century that it has created what I call "the Boy Who Cried Wolf Syndrome".  The story does have suspicious details, but I also can't find a motive for deception.  Where's the payoff?  And why in interviews was he confident that it would be found soon and willing to point out the area on a map?  Nearly everyone thinks that the Berry's region is a likely place to find ruins for a settlement.  However, it's also where AUTEC has had their test ranges, and I used to think that they might be squatting on the ruins (Brown's site) there especially after this report:
http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue18/18bermuda.html

I'm not too sure about it anymore, especially after what Greg found out, and, it's possible that Brown could have been a nutcase too.  That would help to explain why there is no apparent motive for a fabrication.  However, he did mark the site on a map for author Peter Tompkins (Secrets of the Great Pyramid), and Tompkins was supposed to find this map for me.  Unfortunately, I lost contact with him years ago mainly because he spends all his time at his residence in Europe where's he's out of touch. He probably couldn't find that old map anyway -especially if his files are as messy as mine!  I do hope Greg and Lora find something there even though they are not looking for the Brown site per se.  At least they are going, which is more than I can say for anyone else!

I think what is lacking is a map of the area to see how it all relates to one another.  A silly question, have any intact buildings ever been discovered?  If they aren't intact, how do we know for sure that they are buildings?

We have everything plotted on maps.  Someone may have already plotted them on the high rez satellite data too.  We did that for the '98 targets but the GPS was wrong.  There is a nearby naval transmitter/relay station which could have scrambled the data, or Sunspot activity that year. There was nothing there but a sandy bottom when we went back in '99 despite the fact that they were hard targets proportional to human architecture on the sonar, and that's why we were forced to rescan the area last November when the funding for that finally came through. 

As for ancient "intact" buildings, few are going to be so unless they are megalithic constructs like the Sphinx or the Great Pyramid but even these were restored and overbuilt in ancient times.  I remember the first time I went out on an archeological dig near Mesa Verde in Colorado and we found part of an Anasazi settlement perhaps 1000 years old.  The walls and roofs had collapsed long ago, but there was plenty of evidence that these were buildings from the foundations of bricks stacked from the ground up that remain -like those found at Bimini recently. 

Blessings,
Paul

[Greg Little]

Hi all:

I'll add my two cents here and I mean that...it's not really worth much. Paul is correct in that a ton of people have done work in the Bahamas and elsewhere long before we decided to alter the ARE Search For Atlantis project in 2003. To my knowledge, not a single Bahamas researcher affiliated with the ARE was self-funded. We have self-funded all of our expeditions and that has allowed us to do what we wanted to do. It also meant that all of our trips have been serious in that we realized we were spending our own money.

By the way, Joan Hanley's report is in the ARE (hidden away) as well as underwater film they took on that submarine expedition. But virtually everything done by ARE people (with the exception of the Bimini Road work) has been focused on the 300-foot deep level. What was found at 300 feet? They found what seem to be waterfalls, trails, and lots of coral. According to FSU researchers, the 300-foot deep level takes you to the time of 17,000-18,000 BC. In 2003 I related that we were going to focus on the 10,000 BC shoreline: between 50-110 feet. The 300-foot findings are interesting, but I am clueless about what can be done further. And the ARE just completed a massive project that conducted side-scan sonar and sub-bottom profiling on the entire western side of all of Bimini from the shallow shoreline out to a depth of 300+ feet. They received all of the results the week after the boat-based project was completed.

What we have tried to do is not speculate beyond what has actually been found. For example, Zink did a lot of good work on the Bimini Road and then related that extraterrestrials from the Pleiades built it. Valentine said that the west shore of Andros had underwater buildings that were made from huge limestone blocks--but these were crude sponge pens. His descriptions in one place don't match descriptions in another. We try to just report what we find. We have found that such reporting impresses media people and they have continued to approach us. So there will be some details on new documentaries, although these things take 6+ months to be finished.

Last, yes, the rectangular forms at the 100-foot depth, about 3 miles off Bimini do look like building foundations. Converting all of the underwater photos that were taken---from color to black and white--has brought out incredible detail. And we have started an exploration of the Berry Islands.

Greg Little

[Horus]

To my knowledge, not a single Bahamas researcher affiliated with the ARE was self-funded.

Hi Greg,

True, not completely self-funded, and certainly not the larger projects which sport a price tag of $65,000 or more each, but I know that Bill has shelled out a great deal of his own personal money for this work over the years.  Last November's project was short on funding and Bill had to pitch in 10K so it could happen.

I'm glad you were able to finally locate Joan's reports as I was starting to wonder.  I'd like to see them. 

According to FSU researchers, the 300-foot deep level takes you to the time of 17,000-18,000 BC.

This study is about a general sea-level rise based on the Florida Shelf, but does not take into account possible crustal warping or tilting in other areas which could variate that level.  A tectonic submergence of the Bahama Platform caused by a axial poleshift and/or a  sudden convolution of the adjacent Caribbean crustal plate is likely to have occurred at the end of the Younger Dryas when all hell was breaking loose geologically and climatologically.     

Jacques Cousteau found diagonal stalactites in the Great Blue Hole off Belize and since we know such things only form vertically, it testifies to the fact that crustal tilting occurred in the region.  Ironically, Eugene Shinn (of all people) was part of the recent exploration there! 

Whatever the case may be, if Cayce's story is right (and the evidence is stacking favorably that way more and more now) then there should be evidence of human settlements at the 300 ft. shoreline regardless, because Atlantis was supposed to have existed there for tens of thousands of years before its final demise.

It's so unfortunate that Zink swallowed that psychic's statements about the Pleiadian connection as it caused everyone to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" and ignore all of his more legitimate research.  Some skeptics (notably at the Hall of Cra'ap) still use this to deride any suggestion of a artifactual Bimini Road! 

My Best,
Paul 

[Desiree]

Hi Greg,

By the way, Joan Hanley's report is in the ARE (hidden away) as well as underwater film they took on that submarine expedition.

Have you seen the Hanley report? Do you have access to other stuff that is hidden away in the A.R.E. library?

And the ARE just completed a massive project that conducted side-scan sonar and sub-bottom profiling on the entire western side of all of Bimini from the shallow shoreline out to a depth of 300+ feet. They received all of the results the week after the boat-based project was completed.

So what do they show, was that area once above water?

And we have started an exploration of the Berry Islands.

What's on the Berry Islands, did you find anything?

Thanks,

Desiree