Bill Clinton Backs 14th Amendment Option

[Tom Hebert]

Exclusive Bill Clinton Interview: I Would Use Constitutional Option To Raise Debt Ceiling And "Force The Courts To Stop Me"
Tue, 07/19/2011 - 12:03am — Joe Conason

Former President Bill Clinton says that he would invoke the so-called constitutional option to raise the nation’s debt ceiling “without hesitation, and force the courts to stop me” in order to prevent a default, should Congress and the President fail to achieve agreement before the August 2 deadline.
 
Sharply criticizing Congressional Republicans in an exclusive Monday evening interview with The National Memo, Clinton said, “I think the Constitution is clear and I think this idea that the Congress gets to vote twice on whether to pay for [expenditures] it has appropriated is crazy.”
 
Lifting the debt ceiling “is necessary to pay for appropriations already made,” he added, “so you can’t say, ‘Well, we won the last election and we didn’t vote for some of that stuff, so we’re going to throw the whole country’s credit into arrears.”
 
Having faced down the Republican House leadership during two government shutdowns when he was president -- and having brought the country’s budget from the deep deficits left by Republican presidents to a projected surplus -- Clinton is unimpressed by the GOP’s sudden enthusiasm for balanced budgets. But he never considered invoking the Fourteenth Amendment -- which says “the validity of the US public debt shall not be questioned” – because the Republicans led by then-Speaker Newt Gingrich didn’t threaten to use the debt ceiling as a weapon in their budget struggles with him.
 
According to Clinton, the Gingrich Republicans thought about that tactic before rejecting it -- and Treasury officials who served under Clinton commissioned legal research on the president’s power to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval. While some legal scholars believe the Fourteenth Amendment requires Congress to fund the debt that results from its appropriations, and therefore empowers the president to raise the debt ceiling, others vehemently disagree.
 
Like President Obama, Clinton is a former law professor who once taught the Constitution, and he understands that the extent of presidential power remains highly controversial, whether the issue is waging war or increasing the debt.
 
“Here’s what happened, as I remember – but let me back up a second,” Clinton said. “I have read accounts of that time where people at Treasury have been interviewed, and they say they did look into [the president's authority to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval].” As for the Republicans, “they did think about doing that" -- withholding approval of a higher limit -- "and I knew they were thinking about it.” But the question ultimately did not arise for Clinton, he says, because his opponents in Congress decided “they didn’t want to get caught” in a position where they appeared to be repudiating the debt incurred by their own party’s two previous presidents.
 
“The reason that raising the debt limit is so unpopular is that people think you’re voting to keep [increasing] deficit spending, instead of voting to honor obligations that were already incurred,” he said. “I think [the Gingrich Republicans] figured I’d be smart enough to explain to the American people that they were refusing to pay for the expenses they had voted for when Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush were president. And that would make ‘em look bad.”
 
Obama could offer precisely the same explanation in the present circumstances, where most of the current debt can be traced to the profligate military spending and tax cuts of the last Bush administration. Just as the nation’s debt had tripled or quadrupled between 1981 and 1993, in the dozen years of Republican rule before Clinton’s first inauguration, as he points out, so the second Bush administration plunged the budget from surplus to deep deficit before Obama spent one penny on economic stimulus or anything else.
 
Although Clinton says that if he were in Obama’s place he would raise the debt ceiling without legislation – “if it came to that” -- he believes the crisis will be resolved before August 2. “It looks to me like they’re going to make an agreement, and that’s smart.”

http://www.nationalmemo.com/article/exclusive-former-president-bill-clinton-says-he-would-use-constitutional-option-raise-debt

[Volitzer]

14th Amendment

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Funny Democrats seem to remember 'natural born' when it suits their agenda but forget it come election time.   

http://www.birthersummit.org.

[Krista Davenport]

Well, unless you are a dumb racist, Hawaii is still a part of the U.S., which makes Obama a U.S. citizen.

This is the part of the Constitution that Clinton mentioned:

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

This means that Clinton is right, the Debt Ceiling business, a law passed by Congress in the 50s is unconstitutional.    If I were Obama, I would say screw the Republicans and just pay the debts.  They need both houses of Congress to even agree to bring a lawsuit against him, and the Senate is still controlled by the Dems.  And what would the Repugs be fighting over?  So they could stop seniors, government workers and our debtors from getting their money.  I would so like to see them try that.

[Tom Hebert]

Both Clinton and Obama are constitutional scholars, so they know what they're talking about.  However, I don't think Obama will have to invoke the 14th Amendment because it would set a precedent--and also make Congress look pretty stupid (as if they needed any help)  .

[Volitzer]

Well Americans have been invoking the 'natural-born' clause for the past 3 years and Mr. Constitutional scholar still hasn't shown a real Birth Certificate.   

[Krista Davenport]

Both Clinton and Obama are constitutional scholars, so they know what they're talking about.  However, I don't think Obama will have to invoke the 14th Amendment because it would set a precedent--and also make Congress look pretty stupid (as if they needed any help)  .

It may set a precedent, Tom, but I would do it.  This Republican Congress is hypocritical and treasonous. They raised it eight times under Bush, seventeen times under Reagan. They could start a lawsuit if Obama does that, but what would the point of it be?  So they could bring the U.S. government to bankruptcy?  Great selling point to the American public.

And John BONER looked like a complete a#ss in comparison to Obama tonight.

[Tom Hebert]

Yes, I agree that he should do it if push comes to shove.  I would love to see the the Pugs challenge him in court for not cutting Social Security and Medicare benefits.  They certainly would have egg all over their faces.

[Volitzer]

Of course we could just default on the debt.

Get the FED and IMF out of American banking.

Then just issue debt free money and re-establish a good international credit rating.

More debt slavery is NOT the answer even under a multi-racial President.

[Krista Davenport]

Yeah, you let me know if you still think that is a good thing when the interest rates on your loans triple, when the company you are working for lays you off cause it can't meet payroll with the new interest rate and you can't get any unemployment insurance cause the government is bankrupt.

[Volitzer]

So far you are arguing against more debt slavery which is what will happen if you just raise the debt ceiling.

Raising the debt ceiling is like trying to get a junkie clean by giving him more drugs.

I say default on the debt.

END the FED.

Lower the US' Credit rating.

Then issue debt free treasury notes and start more industries so America can bring its credit rating back up and actually have something to export to foreign nations.

This is nothing more that a hostage situation by the FED, and in America you shoot the hostage taker and rescue the hostages.

Of course you pussified gulliberals will opt for an extension of more debt slavery.

[Mandy Esser]

Jennifer Bendery jen.bendery@huffingtonpost.com
Hoyer Backs Obama Using 14th Amendment To Resolve Debt Crisis


WASHINGTON -- House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) on Wednesday night became the highest ranking Democratic leader to throw his support behind the idea of President Barack Obama using the 14th Amendment of the Constitution to raise the debt ceiling on his own.

That option is "arguably in his power," Hoyer said on MSNBC's "The Ed Show."

"Very frankly, if it came down to his looking default in the eye on Tuesday or taking this action, as President Clinton said, it would be better to take the action and find out later that perhaps he went beyond his authority but … protected the creditworthiness of the United States of America."

House Budget ranking member Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) also lent support to the constitutional approach.

"I think the president should keep all his legal options on the table," Van Hollen said on the same show.

Their comments come a day after other House Democratic leaders unexpectedly threw their support behind Obama taking that route in the debt standoff. Earlier Thursday, another group of House Democrats organized their own press event to apply pressure on the president to invoke the 14th Amendment.

The White House maintains the option is off the table because Obama may not have the legal authority to unilaterally lift the debt ceiling. But with the clock ticking on Congress to reach a deal by August 2, and with some legal experts insisting it is within the president's authority, some Democrats are hoping Obama will rethink his opposition.




The provision at the heart of the constitutional debate, Section 4 of the 14th Amendment, states: “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payments of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.” Essentially, Democrats are arguing that since the "public debt" cannot be questioned, then the debt ceiling itself is unconstitutional.

Over the course of the last several months, several commentators have urged the administration to explore the 14th Amendment option. In late June, HuffPost reported that Senate Democrats were actively discussing it as an option and giving it increasing consideration as the difficulty of reaching a compromise became more evident. Two days later, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner read the 14th Amendment out loud to a group of journalists, seemingly implying it was a viable option.

NBC’s Chuck Todd asked Obama about the constitutionality of the debt ceiling at a briefing the day after HuffPost’s initial report. The president dodged the question at the time, but has since said that White House lawyers “are not persuaded that that is a winning argument.”

Nevertheless, the argument remains. On Thursday, liberal writers Bob Kuttner and Michael Tomasky both argued in separate columns that Obama should invoke the amendment.

[Mandy Esser]

Fedup23
207 Fans
23 minutes ago (1:49 AM)
Here are three potential ways around the debt ceiling:

1.Use the 14th amendment of the constituti­­­­­­­on to declare (or threaten to declare) debt ceiling as unconstitu­­­­­­­tion­a­l – but it seems that the administra­­­­­­­tion is reluctant to use this.

2.Cancel the US government debts held by the Federal Reserve – the government can probably cancel a trillion or two of debts, large chunk of them purchased during the quantitati­­­­­­­ve easing programme. This can buy a year or two, perhaps.

3.Coin Seigniorag­­­­­­­e – this requires a little bit more explanatio­­­­­­­n.

The third option, as explained in great detail here (http://pra­gcap.com/c­oin-seigni­orage-a-le­gal-altern­ative-to-t­he-debt-ce­iling and here http://www­.nakedcapi­talism.com­/2011/07/s­cott-fullw­iller-qe3-­treasury-s­tyle), uses the fact that the US Mint can create a platinum coin of any arbitrary face value. The profit from seigniorag­­­­­­­e (i.e. the face value of this coin minus the cost of making this coin) can somehow go into the Treasury General Account. The Mint can, for instance, mint a few US$1 Trillion platinum coins, book the seigniorag­­­­­­­e profit at the Federal Reserve Mint’s account, then “sweep” that to the Treasury General Account"

http://www­.businessi­nsider.com­/3-ways-ar­ound-the-d­ebt-ceilin­g-2011-7

[Mandy Esser]

amicusceo
33 Fans
13 minutes ago (1:58 AM)
The Treasury controls what coins can be made.

(a)The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(1)a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2)a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3)a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams.
(4)a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5)a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6)except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7)A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeter­s in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8)A twenty-fiv­e dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeter­s in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9)A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeter­s in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10)A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeter­s in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(11)A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriat­e size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure go

[Volitzer]

There's no shortage of equity in America the problem lies with central banks wanting $1500 back out of every $38 lent.

This is what is stifling the economy, mathematically impossible greed on the part of the Federal-Reserve.

[Krista Davenport]

Duh!!!!  You think if the Federal  Reserve went away you would no longer have to pay as much interest on your loans?  You do know that the Fed cut interest rates to 0 and they have been low since 2008. No one is EVER going to give you free money, with the possible exception of your parents.