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Jesse Neel
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« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2011, 05:49:07 pm »

Found a really good informational site.

http://fedupusa.org/
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Rage Against the Machine
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2011, 08:43:26 pm »

Hi Jesse, I have a few minor complaints about that site you found:

Quote
Remember that the CBO said we’d have no Federal Debt in 2010 (in 1999.)  How’d that work out?  Do you think they’re just a wee bit optimistic?

Actually, we would have had no debt had Bush not given the surplus back to his rich buddies.  That, plus two unfunded wars put the federal debit into the mess it is in now. You can trace the mounting federal debt back to Iraq, Afghanistan and the Bush tax cuts. Republicans like to gripe about the cost of Medicare and Social Security, but they are self-funded!
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Jesse Neel
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 02:02:52 am »

Rage,

I'm missing the connection between the CBO and the FED. But, I am a bit dense when it comes to global finance. If the CBO said that (and I don't doubt your word), then yes, they were wrong (my hindsight is as good as anyone's). As for Bush, I doubt that he gave his buddies 13 trillion dollars. As for the wars, I don't care much for them, but in my opinion mortgage-based CDO's did much more damage to the economy. I really don't know that much about Medicare and Social Security, but they give every indication of being pyramid schemes.

I'll admit that my open liberal mind has brought me to mostly conservative conclusions, but I'm not here for a political discourse. The Democrats have failed us, the Republicans have failed us, and if we keep up with the political bickering; we are going to fail ourselves. The truth is where you find it and it doesn't matter how we "feel" about it. In fact, I've found that the truth rarely feels good.

I'm here for a financial discussion. I want someone to "show me the money". Where is it? Where has it gone? Where is it going. Who has it? And why is the FED smack dab in the middle siphoning off the very lifesblood of my country? We are not going to get the answers from the professional liars and thieves in Washington. We are going to have to find the answers for ourselves and then force a solution.
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Rage Against the Machine
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2011, 10:23:05 pm »

Jesse, I never said that Bush gave anyone 13 trillion dollars. Point is, he was handed a surplus and he gave it all back (Clinton balanced the budget the last three years of his term).

There was a SURPLUS in the federal budget of close to $250 billion, and that when he left office, there was a $1.3 trillion DEFICIT. That's a difference of $1.55 trillion.  Whatever the national debt is right now, the tax cuts, overwhelmingly favoring the top 1% incomes (who actually now pay a lower PERCENTAGE in taxes than the rest of us!), by this year has cost us $2.48 TRILLION.

Then there was the fact that the wars weren't added on the books (Bush always requested funding for the wars in emergency supplementals). When Obama took office, he did finally add them to the books, making our spending now look like this:



You can see that, without the Bush tax cuts or the wars, we would pretty much be back where we were on 2000. I also reject that the Dems had much to do for the current economic mess.  Both wars and the tax cuts were pushed through by Bush and the Republicans. They have the best of both worlds:  when they aren't in office, they spend all their time whining about the debt.  When they are in office, they do all they can to drive it up (apparently because they think that will stop the Dems from spending on social programs).
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Jesse Neel
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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2011, 12:54:52 am »

Politics, politics, politics. Clearly I'm in the wrong place for this conversation. Hasta.
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Goddess of Love, Hate & Fury
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« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2011, 06:59:29 am »

It would be awfully hard to have any conversation on the budget without mentioning where the spending came from and who was responsible for it.  If you don't assign blame, how can you fix the problem?
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Volitzer
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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2011, 03:13:37 pm »

Problem - the FED
Reaction - End the FED
Solution -  Pass the Bill HR 2755 END the FED Bill.

All of this "debt" is a fabrication by them.  There's no way in hell you are going to be able to pay off $1.5 quadrillion with only $38 trillion in the overall economy.  It is just not going to happen.
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Rage Against the Machine
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« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2011, 04:18:53 pm »


Quote
I'll admit that my open liberal mind has brought me to mostly conservative conclusions,

See that is your problem right there, Jesse. Your observations are colored by your political prejudices, i.e., you probably voted for Bush and don't want to face the fact that he screwed up.  Well, guess what? 

HE SCREWED UP!  HE SCREWED THIS COUNTRY OVER AND ALL THE IDIOTS WHO VOTED FOR HIM SHARE SOME RESPONSIBILITY IN IT, TOO.

He gave you two wars, an unsustainable deficit, the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, and a good case can even be made that he allowed 9/11 to happen!

You started this discussion by saying,

Quote
I'm here for a financial discussion. I want someone to "show me the money". Where is it? Where has it gone? Where is it going. Who has it?

Well, I told you where the money went to (and you are welcome to do your own digging at anyplace but Faux News).  The money was siphoned away from people like you and me to give to Bush's rich buddies (his base, the haves and the haves mores) and to allow the military industrial complex to get it's share of the taxpayer pie. It is out there for anyone to see. It's no wonder you skeddadled out of here when you got answers that conflicted with your political ideology: the truth hurts!  I guess the Fox News answer would be to blame all the babies on welfare.   Roll Eyes
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Rage Against the Machine
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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2011, 04:25:34 pm »

Problem - the FED
Reaction - End the FED
Solution -  Pass the Bill HR 2755 END the FED Bill.

All of this "debt" is a fabrication by them.  There's no way in hell you are going to be able to pay off $1.5 quadrillion with only $38 trillion in the overall economy.  It is just not going to happen.

I'm with you that the Fed needs more transparency, but ending the Fed is not the answer, nor is it the reason we have such a huge deficit. The wars and the Bush tax cuts are to blame for that.  If the Fed hadn't been printing so much money lately, we'd actually be in a Depression right now, not a recession.  If you did end the Fed, all that would accomplish would be that the U.S. government would end up doing the same thing (printing more money to cover it's debts), so where is the benefit exactly? 

In my opinion, we need to cut back military spending and end oil speculation on Wall St. That would do wonders for the economy, as well as stop ALL tax breaks for companies shipping jobs overseas. 
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Volitzer
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2011, 05:09:33 pm »

Problem - the FED
Reaction - End the FED
Solution -  Pass the Bill HR 2755 END the FED Bill.

All of this "debt" is a fabrication by them.  There's no way in hell you are going to be able to pay off $1.5 quadrillion with only $38 trillion in the overall economy.  It is just not going to happen.

I'm with you that the Fed needs more transparency, but ending the Fed is not the answer, nor is it the reason we have such a huge deficit. The wars and the Bush tax cuts are to blame for that.  If the Fed hadn't been printing so much money lately, we'd actually be in a Depression right now, not a recession.  If you did end the Fed, all that would accomplish would be that the U.S. government would end up doing the same thing (printing more money to cover it's debts), so where is the benefit exactly? 

In my opinion, we need to cut back military spending and end oil speculation on Wall St. That would do wonders for the economy, as well as stop ALL tax breaks for companies shipping jobs overseas. 

I agree, we also need to have the US Treasury issue debt free Treasury Notes instead of a debt based fiat currency we are on now.  Then use quarterly taxes which then expire every quarter to stave off inflation.  Since the population grows at 3% a year then the money supply should increase nearly the same.
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stevesonoff
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2012, 04:50:14 am »

Great information
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Volitzer
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2012, 05:14:46 pm »

Thanks it is a relief when members here get it.   Wink

America is in a world of hurt right now and we will have one chance to get it back on track in 2012 by voting in Ron Paul and voting out the Globalist shysters in both Democrat and Republican parties.

If people are going to continue to be stupid then they deserve a one way ticket by the Globalists to the FEMA Camps.   Angry

I hate to be the AO - Pissant, but even battered women get out of abusive relationships before Americans wake up to Globalists on the average.    Lips sealed
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