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the Mid-Atlantic Ridge

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Author Topic: the Mid-Atlantic Ridge  (Read 22287 times)
Georgium Sidus
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« Reply #105 on: February 03, 2009, 10:57:06 pm »

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However, I think the mid-Atlantic ridge is the wrong place, if Atlantis existed at all. The ridge is a "spreading center" from which new plate material is being created. Unless such a spreading center is already elevated, as with the Great Rift Valley, I would think it would remain submerged at the bottom of the ocean. No force that I can think of would elevate the ridge. In fact, I would think that a spreading center (divergent boundary) would lead to a subsidence, and this may just happen to the Great Rift Valley in a few million years.

Lonestar, I have to take a bit of an issue with your description of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. First off the Ridge is not exactly "spreading center," it actually is magma pushing itself upwards from the ocean floors. 

Here is the actual spreading of the floor:


Now here is the "seam" as it projects from the ocean:



You can see that the whole thing resembles something of an underwater mountain chain, the tops of which are, of course, the islands of the Azores, Cape Verde and Tristan de Cuhna.  Now then, this spreading has been happening for millions of years.  The ocean level, during the Ice Age was hundreds of feet lower, thus making more land above sea level.

If a catastrophe really did occur during the 11,000 to 9,000 date range as Plato and geology is now suggesting, it is easy to imagine this area getting more submerged. This reasoning in itself makes it impossible for one to write off the MAR as a location for Atlantis.
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Georgium Sidus
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« Reply #106 on: February 03, 2009, 10:59:13 pm »



Mid-Atlantic Ridge axis cross section. Beneath the surface, dikes (magma conduits) rise vertically and propagate along the axis from a magma body. Three dikes are shown in detail. The most recent is the one to the right, shaded yellow-orange. Where a dike breaches the surface, a fissure eruption occurs. Older flows are transparent. Hummocky ridges and seamounts are built along the axis. Seamounts and flat-topped highs on the flanks of the axial volcanic ridge are fed by lava tubes from the summit.
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Georgium Sidus
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« Reply #107 on: February 03, 2009, 11:05:33 pm »



A better diagram of how the crust is pushing itself upwards.
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Georgium Sidus
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« Reply #108 on: February 03, 2009, 11:07:53 pm »

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LoneStar77
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« Reply #109 on: February 04, 2009, 07:12:52 am »

Lonestar, I have to take a bit of an issue with your description of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. First off the Ridge is not exactly "spreading center," it actually is magma pushing itself upwards from the ocean floors.  

Here is the actual spreading of the floor:
<image>

Now here is the "seam" as it projects from the ocean:
<image>

You can see that the whole thing resembles something of an underwater mountain chain, the tops of which are, of course, the islands of the Azores, Cape Verde and Tristan de Cuhna.  Now then, this spreading has been happening for millions of years.  The ocean level, during the Ice Age was hundreds of feet lower, thus making more land above sea level.

If a catastrophe really did occur during the 11,000 to 9,000 date range as Plato and geology is now suggesting, it is easy to imagine this area getting more submerged. This reasoning in itself makes it impossible for one to write off the MAR as a location for Atlantis.


Georgium Sidus, I appreciate your enthusiasm for the MAR, but there are a few facts that might change your mind.

First off, let's clear up the terms. The MAR is a "spreading center" by definition. The magma pushes upward from the mantle (not the ocean floors) to create new ocean floor, spreading from the valley at the center of the MAR -- the actual boundary between tectonic plates.

Yes, I understand that the ridge looks like a chain of mountains. That's exactly what it is. However, the tops of nearly all of those peaks are thousands of feet below sea level. Twelve thousand years ago, sea level was only about 200 feet lower. The peaks of those underwater mountains were still thousands of feet below sea level, as they were at the height of the last Ice Age. Tristan da Cunha is right on the MAR, but Cape Verde islands are about a thousand miles from MAR. The Azores straddles the MAR, but most of it stretches east of the MAR on top of what is called the Azores plateau.

I don't doubt that Atlantis, if it existed, included a portion of the MAR, but the bulk of it likely stretched along the then convergent boundary between the Africa and Eurasia plates. Again, there is no mechanism I can think of that would elevate the MAR (spreading center, or divergent boundary) to form Atlantis. It would seem a convergent, not divergent, boundary would have been the culprit because with convergence is the force needed to uplift new land above sea level through crustal folding (the action commonly known as mountain building).

Also, please check what I said. I was not writing off the MAR. I only suggested that it is not nearly as likely as the Azores (which happens to straddle the MAR). The mechanism of subduction and crustal folding is widely accepted by geologists and is largely understood, though not completely. It would be a perfect candidate for the formation of Atlantis, as well as a good explanation for its later demise.

LoneStar77
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LoneStar77
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Harbinger of Doom
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« Reply #110 on: February 04, 2009, 07:34:51 am »

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Again, there is no mechanism I can think of that would elevate the MAR (spreading center, or divergent boundary) to form Atlantis. It would seem a convergent, not divergent, boundary would have been the culprit because with convergence is the force needed to uplift new land above sea level through crustal folding (the action commonly known as mountain building).

Hi Lonestar, that would be dependent on how big Atlantis actually was. The entire MAR need not be above sea level, just a portion of it, more than now, most likely around the Azores region.  I don't think asnyone interested in Atlantis has suggested that the entire MAR was above sea level at one time. 
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LoneStar77
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« Reply #111 on: February 05, 2009, 12:31:24 am »

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Again, there is no mechanism I can think of that would elevate the MAR (spreading center, or divergent boundary) to form Atlantis. It would seem a convergent, not divergent, boundary would have been the culprit because with convergence is the force needed to uplift new land above sea level through crustal folding (the action commonly known as mountain building).

Hi Lonestar, that would be dependent on how big Atlantis actually was. The entire MAR need not be above sea level, just a portion of it, more than now, most likely around the Azores region.  I don't think asnyone interested in Atlantis has suggested that the entire MAR was above sea level at one time. 

Hi Harbinger,

Yes, I wasn't suggesting that either, but you make a good point. My wording was perhaps incomplete. What I probably should have said is that no mechanism that I know of could elevate a portion of the MAR.

Now, because the Azores plateau is next to the MAR, if the mechanism of subduction, blocked by an impediment, caused the excessive crustal folding that led to the formation of the island later known as Atlantis, then it would have, of necessity, have affected the adjacent region of the MAR.

My larger point was that the mechanisms of uplift and subsequent subsidence may not have come from anything to do with the MAR directly, but from the well-understood mechanisms at convergent (not divergent) plate boundaries. In other words, the hypothesized prior convergence in the area of the Azores led to the necessary crustal folding and increased boundary damage, leading to the features we see today -- the Azores plateau itself, the jumbled nature of the region, the indistinctness of the plate boundary farther East toward Gibraltar, the bend in the plate boundary starting Southeast of Terceira Island (Terceira Ridge, or "spreading center"), and others.

That said, one of our fellow members reminded me of R. Cedric Leonard's wonderful site (and also brought to my attention that several members are copying his work without attribution!). Mr. Leonard points out that there are several instances of atypical uplift and subsidence all along the MAR. This was something of which I was unaware. So, it would seem there is a mechanism that none of us entirely understand at work on the MAR. This unknown mechanism could certainly have contributed to the formation and destruction of Atlantis. Could it be that both this mechanism and the subduction / crustal folding mechanisms were at work here?

LoneStar77
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LoneStar77
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« Reply #112 on: February 05, 2009, 01:01:56 am »

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Mr. Leonard points out that there are several instances of atypical uplift and subsidence all along the MAR. This was something of which I was unaware. So, it would seem there is a mechanism that none of us entirely understand at work on the MAR.


Yes, tectonic uplift and tectonic depression.    Mr. Leonard is a brilliant researcher and has been quoted many, many times at this and other forums. Most times he has been quoted here, though, the link back to his website has also been given. I don't believe that anyone has ever suggested that his work was theirs.

Welcome to the forum, Carl, are you a geologist yourself then?
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LoneStar77
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« Reply #113 on: February 05, 2009, 02:21:23 am »

Yes, tectonic uplift and tectonic depression.  Mr. Leonard is a brilliant researcher and has been quoted many, many times at this and other forums. Most times he has been quoted here, though, the link back to his website has also been given. I don't believe that anyone has ever suggested that his work was theirs.

Welcome to the forum, Carl, are you a geologist yourself then?

Thanks, and I understand. The only postings I saw that quoted Mr. Leonard did not have any credit or link. For the benefit of others, it's always nice to give the reference.

Only an amateur geologist. My training is in electronic engineering and software engineering, though I'm a lifelong avid amateur astronomer, with interest in exoplanets and astrophysics.

Glad to be participating in the lively discussions.

LoneStar77
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LoneStar77
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Mario Dantas
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« Reply #114 on: February 05, 2009, 03:58:55 am »

Dear friends,


Since i have a theory in which Greenland was Atlantis and the reason why it isn't in front of the straight of Gibraltar anymore is that it floated across a momentarily molten Atlantic floor in the Arctic direction where it is stationed today, i will drop in a few lines to this open discussion...

The Azores Plateau along with the Cape Verde Islands Canary Islands and the rest of the Macaronesia are remnants of this large Island (the largest Island in the World) according to Critias.

My view of what happened is not necessarily contradicting your views but surely is a different approach. You must know that the Lithosphere is less dense than the Asthenosphere and therefore will float (as it is already today). There are spots in the Atlantic with only 5 km thickness (MAR) which could in fact become molten in one blink of an eye and permit the necessary "buoyancy" for a continental body to dislocate faster than today's spreading rate.

regards,
Mario Dantas
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 04:05:24 am by Mario Dantas » Report Spam   Logged

LoneStar77
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« Reply #115 on: February 05, 2009, 04:37:17 am »

Since i have a theory in which Greenland was Atlantis and the reason why it isn't in front of the straight of Gibraltar anymore is that it floated across a momentarily molten Atlantic floor in the Arctic direction where it is stationed today, i will drop in a few lines to this open discussion...

The Azores Plateau along with the Cape Verde Islands Canary Islands and the rest of the Macaronesia are remnants of this large Island (the largest Island in the World) according to Critias.

My view of what happened is not necessarily contradicting your views but surely is a different approach. You must know that the Lithosphere is less dense than the Asthenosphere and therefore will float (as it is already today). There are spots in the Atlantic with only 5 km thickness (MAR) which could in fact become molten in one blink of an eye and permit the necessary "buoyancy" for a continental body to dislocate faster than today's spreading rate.

regards, Mario Dantas

Mario, your statement that your view is "surely a different approach," is a vast understatement.

For me, personally, I have several hurdles of disbelief to overcome with your idea. I've learned, though (regrettably only in recent years), that I cannot depend on my experience and learning alone in judging someone else's input. I look forward to your discussion, data and references.

I'm curious how you would explain the past molten state in light of the current texture and features of the Atlantic Ocean floor, some of which are more than a hundred million years old. I'm curious how you would explain the lack of "tread marks" left by Greenland's passing from the Gibraltar region to its current location. If plate tectonics has any validity, and by my estimation, it is close to a geological truth, how would you explain Greenland getting past the boundaries and "trading allegiances" (becoming a North American, instead of a hybrid Afro-Eurasian)?

And I'm not familiar with your reference in Critias to "the largest Island in the World." By one definition of the word island, Australia might be the largest island in the world. Heck, if we take island to mean land surrounded by a body of water, then the largest would be Afro-Eurasia. Greenland is certainly the largest island by modern usage of the word, but I await your input on the Critias reference. Perhaps I'm interpreting some passage differently.

Ever a student, and imperfectly humble, I await your further input.

LoneStar77
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LoneStar77
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Mario Dantas
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« Reply #116 on: February 05, 2009, 07:05:15 am »

Dear LoneStar77,

Let me begin to state that Critias in fact doesn't say anywhere that Atlantis was the largest Island in the World...

you said:

Quote
I'm curious how you would explain the past molten state in light of the current texture and features of the Atlantic Ocean floor, some of which are more than a hundred million years old. I'm curious how you would explain the lack of "tread marks" left by Greenland's passing from the Gibraltar region to its current location.

Regarding the Age of the crust in the Atlantic Ocean floor it is quite a simple matter, plain and simple Scientists didn't add up to the equation the energetic aspect of the event in which Atlantis "sunk"...therefore the Age is wrong because there wasn't the proper "reduction" concerning the million years you state in your post.

The "tread marks" you mention are all over the MAR (especially in the North hemisphere), probably that is the reason why the Pacific lack those same "tread marks", there wasn't any dislocation of the type to allow such features there...


you also say:

Quote
If plate tectonics has any validity, and by my estimation, it is close to a geological truth, how would you explain Greenland getting past the boundaries and "trading allegiances" (becoming a North American, instead of a hybrid Afro-Eurasian)?

Plate Tectonics are true indeed but is a much too recent Science nevertheless for us to simply estimate that all Continents and Islands dislocate at the rate it is now believed.

Plates can logically dislocate faster than we assume today because of the simple fact that the Crust is less dense than the Mantle and if properly pushed can obviously move faster than we think. If the floor upon which they rest become molten it is possible for Continental Plates to "drift" away fast.

I thank you for your kind words, it is always a rare opportunity to discuss these matters.


regards,
Mario Dantas
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« Reply #117 on: February 05, 2009, 10:16:03 am »

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Mr. Leonard is a brilliant researcher and has been quoted many, many times at this and other forums. Most times he has been quoted here, though, the link back to his website has also been given. I don't believe that anyone has ever suggested that his work was theirs.

The posts by Dhill are R. Cedric Leonard's work.  Dhill posted this work at AR with no reference to Mr. Leonard, and it has been copied here - with no credit to Mr. Leonard.
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« Reply #118 on: February 05, 2009, 11:48:06 am »

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The posts by Dhill are R. Cedric Leonard's work.  Dhill posted this work at AR with no reference to Mr. Leonard, and it has been copied here - with no credit to Mr. Leonard.

Wrong.

Here is page one of dhill's thread, "Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean." 

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,651.0.html

You can see that replies 3, 4 & 11 are a piece of Leonard's work and that, at the top of each, they include a link back to the man's website.  The inclusion of the link is considered "attribution."

In fact, the links to all the material dhill has amassed are present on the page.

I went through most of the topic and those three are the only references to Leonard's work in the topic in a topic of some 327 posts, so the emphasis on Leonard's contributions seems a bit over-stated.
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« Reply #119 on: February 05, 2009, 02:27:53 pm »





Thank you, Archangel!!!


You got there before me.......

dhill is the best researcher of either here or AR and he always references his work.  I personally
learned an awful lot from him.  

Too bad he has too many obligations to be able to spare much time for us.   But when he does,
he is COHESIVE and extremely informative.  I much enjoy his information and I use a lot of it
in my postings.

As for this HERE thread, it is Carolyn Silver's.  She is also a great researcher and she ALSO references her work.  Unfortunately, she can't be here too often, either.

We all make mistakes of forgetfulness, I cringe everytime I find one of my posts that is missing a
link.  But then, it happens....

On the other hand, some posters here can't even be bothered......
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