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Darwin May Have Been WRONG, New Study Argues

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Robert0326
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« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2010, 10:11:33 am »

Name one instance that people have forced the study of evolution on people.  Now religion on the other hand has had a long bloody history of brainwashing and forced indoctrination.  The "get them while their young" approach has worked very well for far too long.  Here are some links to a few web sites on the evolution of our species.  Please feel free to look at your leisure.  And if your truly not afraid of open inquiry into our species I hope that you will actually read the information.

http://www.archaeologyinfo.com/species.htm

http://www.wsu.edu:8001/vwsu/gened/learn-modules/top_longfor/timeline/timeline.html

http://www.onelife.com/evolve/manev.html

 
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2010, 06:29:19 am »

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Name one instance that people have forced the study of evolution on people.

middle & high schools, universities.

i have studied evolution and i can tell you that there is not one evolutionary experiment that replicates the supposed changes claimed by evolutionists. evolutin never existed and theory is a complete fabrication.

one or two fossils do not make a new species. nor do 50. it is all conjecture.
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Robert0326
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2010, 07:59:36 am »

If all the fossils are not the ancestors of man, then what exactly would you call them?  I say the bible and god are man-made creations.   
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2010, 09:54:56 am »

The thing is, how can you prove Moses wrote Genesis?  How can you prove anything the Bible says, any more than scientists can prove evolution?

The Bible is the religious Book for a group called Christians.  There are other religions, and they too, will say their method of worship is the correct one as they were told by THEIR prophet. 

The main factor in a religious belief, is not about who is right or wrong in how they worship - it's in what you do in your life to make you a better person. 

The Old Testament - which is part of the Bible - and tells about God - is full of killing and suffering and anger.  I find the teachings of the Tibetan Lamas much more spiritual.  They take only what they need, and spend their lives, trying to enlighten others and raise their spiritual consciousness. 

You, yourself archaeologist, sound like you're angry all the time.  It sounds like you've been disillusioned with something and are retaliating somehow.  Did you once believe in evolution only to find it didn't satisfy you?

Here's a link to Stephen Hawking's latest theory.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/02/stephen-hawking-big-bang-creator
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Robert0326
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2010, 02:29:53 pm »

The reason I think Archeologists reason for not (for lack of a better word) "believing" in evolution is that he and many others feel threatened by evolution because it contradicts genesis and the bible.  Oh, about about your response archeologist that schools force evolution on students is just not true at all.  Parents have the option of enrolling their kids in private school if they so choose.  They don't force students under the punishment of eternal damnation of they don't learn evolution.  Israeli archeologists have not found anything what-so-ever to back up the claims made in the bible.  And it is a fact that even the Exodus never happened.  There are no Egyptian records to back it up.  And they pretty much wrote everything down.  I think that something of that significance would have been written down.  Don't you think? 
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« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2010, 06:53:49 am »

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If all the fossils are not the ancestors of man, then what exactly would you call them

#1. there is only 1 race of man, not 4 and not several seperate 'species' of man i.e. neanderthal, cro-magnom etc. any HUMAN skeletons all were the descendants of Adam and any animal skeletons were all descendants of their kind.

#2 fossils do not prove any claim of evolutionary process or change. it is impossible to tell which would be the mother or daughter fossil and dating via the dirt is not proof for you cannot prove that those skeletons lived at that exact time. they could have been placed in the dirt at a later date or even an earlier one and eventually covered over by other dirt.

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I say the bible and god are man-made creations

that is your choice but you would be flying in the face of true facts.

#1 no scientific discovery has proven the Bible false

#2 no archaeological discovery has proven the Bible false.

#3 all reproduction follows Genesis 1

#4 in evolution there is no reason for death to exist but in creation there is. it entered the world at adam's fall. with the Bible we have reasons for everything that exists and their purpose, with evolution there is no reason or purpose. there is no reason for the reproductive systems in evolution either and no reason for a male and female for each species and humans. in evolution there is no reason for sex.

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how can you prove Moses wrote Genesis?  How can you prove anything the Bible says, any more than scientists can prove evolution?

we can prove the Bible far easier than secular scientists can prove evolution.

#1. reproduction is found in all the nurseries of the world for plants, animals and humans. doesn't change and it doesn't take millions of years to see it take place.

#2. we have the existence of light, the sun, the moon and stars as described in the Bible.

#3. ancient socieites and their legends reflect the creation and flood acounts yet not 1 has any evolutionary tales, bed time stories, nor sightings of intermediary species and NOT ONE writing on evolution. kep in mind that the ancients charted the stars, measured the globe, built huge structures, had modern type technology and so on without modern tools, lasers, etc. they would know if evolution existed or not and recognize it BUT they do not teach it at all.

#4. K.A. Kitchen proved that the price recorded in the Bible for selling Joseph as a slave was the correct price fo rthat time period.

#5. the amarna or ugarit tablets show that the patriarchal names were in use at the time the Bible says they were. though we can't prove they were the actual patriarchs, having the correct names is important.

#6. people die just like the Bible says and their lifespan is where God set it at and as the Bible records.

#7 the ancient civilizations mentioned in the Bible are in the correct time and geographical position as recorded.

#8 the discovery of the hittite people

#9. israel restored as a nation. no other people ha sever experienced that feat.

shall i continue?

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The Bible is the religious Book for a group called Christians.  There are other religions, and they too, will say their method of worship is the correct one as they were told by THEIR prophet. 

yet the Bble outsells them all, both past and present, most ancient religions are dead and gone while the Bible survives, theirs do not have the archaeological or scientific proof to support their claims and so on.

Quote
The Old Testament - which is part of the Bible - and tells about God - is full of killing and suffering and anger.  I find the teachings of the Tibetan Lamas much more spiritual.  They take only what they need, and spend their lives, trying to enlighten others and raise their spiritual consciousness. 

you keep forgetting that God is allowed to punish those who disobey Him or follow sinful ways. you only focus on what you want to see andforget that people have free choice and they suffer because they do not follow God or His ways.

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The main factor in a religious belief, is not about who is right or wrong in how they worship - it's in what you do in your life to make you a better person

this is wrong because if there is no right or wrong then hitler would be right and no one could condemn or fight against him for their way is not right either. you have to have a right or wrong or no one would have any standard to convict criminals or point out false  teachings that lead people to destruction. everything would be right.

the legal system is basically following the biblical right or wrong.

Quote
Here's a link to Stephen Hawking's latest theory.

i read it and he embarasses himself once again.  he wasn't at creation thus he cannot say that God did not do it. he is merely a handicapped man who does not believe thus he has to make something up to justofy his salary.

who is stephen hawkings? a person , a human, who cannot see into the past andhas noidea what took place because he rejects the truth. he also isn't an authority, nor one who canmake any determination about what did or didn't happen a few thousand years ago.

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The reason I think Archeologists reason for not (for lack of a better word) "believing" in evolution is that he and many others feel threatened by evolution because it contradicts genesis and the bible.

can't be afraid of something that doesn't exist.  doesn't matter f it contradicts genesis or not, it isn't truth and as i have shown, the modern secular scientist cannot replicate the claimed actual changes nor the original conditions that spawned said changes. 

there isn't anything to evolution  and it isnot something one should put faith in, it is a complete lie.

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Parents have the option of enrolling their kids in private school if they so choose

the atheist can build their own schools and pay extra tuition if they want to teach evolution. evolution is a lie and does not belong in ppublic schools.

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Israeli archeologists have not found anything what-so-ever to back up the claims made in the bible

this is a lie as the dan stele has been found, the merepthah stele has been found, and so muchmore. you obviously do not know what you are tlaking about.

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And it is a fact that even the Exodus never happened.

prove it.

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There are no Egyptian records to back it up

doesn't have to be but there i sone, the ipuwer papyrus but manyscholars date it to the wrong dynasty because they are afraid of the truth.

Quote
And they pretty much wrote everything down. 

you obviously know nothing about egyptians or how they kept records. read Old Testament Times by RK Harrison and see for yourself. i will give you a hint--the ancient egyptians did not record defeats.

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Qoais
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« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2010, 10:36:06 am »

Quote
Quote
The main factor in a religious belief, is not about who is right or wrong in how they worship - it's in what you do in your life to make you a better person
Quote
this is wrong because if there is no right or wrong then hitler would be right and no one could condemn or fight against him for their way is not right either. you have to have a right or wrong or no one would have any standard to convict criminals or point out false  teachings that lead people to destruction. everything would be right.

the legal system is basically following the biblical right or wrong.

I was not talking about this sort of thing.  I was talking about which religion was right or wrong. And whether or not the Bible outsells other religious writings is irrelevant. It's not about money.   Hinduism is the oldest recorded religion and I know those that adhere to it live their life according to their religion.  I have many friends who belong to the Hindu faith.  They accept that Christians believe in Jesus and don't put us down for it.  They don't try to change us or convert us to Hinduism.  They believe everyone has the right to worship the way they want and that God loves everyone, not just a chosen few. 

Most countries' legal system follows their religious beliefs. 

Quote
we can prove the Bible far easier than secular scientists can prove evolution.

I asked specifically, how can you prove Moses wrote Genesis?  Even in those days, they understood about reproduction.  They weren't blind.  They'd been farmers for 2000 years by that time, and I'm sure they noticed how reproduction works.  They butchered their animals and could see how the insides were.  They used bladders for carrying water, etc.  They could also see the sun, and moon and stars, etc.  However, they thought the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun revolved around the earth. 

They would not have sitings of intermediary species because according to science, the species we have today, were the same as back then.  Science is talking in hundreds of thousands of years, not just a few thousand.

In those days, names were passed on in families so surely in all the Bible, they'd get at least something right.  The odds favor them getting at least a few things correct.  The Bible was a compilation of the writings of different people.  They were relating what they knew from their reference point.  They probably had records that showed what slaves sold for, that's not rocket science. 

And I will say again, that you can believe in a God that doles out "punishment" if you want.  Perhaps you feel you've been so wicked you need and desire and enjoy punishment.  Those of us who have suffered cruelty at the hands of others, don't agree with you.  I have known love and I have known hate and let me tell you, I would prefer to be treated with love any day over hate.  Man has been given free will according to the Bible.  Some choose to dominate others through fear and cruelty.  Feel they have to "punish" others.  That is not love as I've said before.  God is Love.  Real love.  Not what man perceives as love.

People who have had a Near Death Experience tell about the sense of love that enfolds them when they are "on the other side".  They say there are no words to describe the beauty of it.  THAT is what I would call God's love.  Indescribable beauty. 
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« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2010, 03:17:57 am »

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I was not talking about this sort of thing

it is allpart of it for if there i sno right or wrong in worship then there is no right or wrong. God states how to worship as well, the instructions are in the Bible and there is a right and wrong way.

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Hinduism is the oldest recorded religion

that is not correct.

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They believe everyone has the right to worship the way they want and that God loves everyone, not just a chosen few. 

this doesn't make them special for christianity believes the same thing BUT to get to heaven, to be a follower of God you ave to follow God's plan of salvation. everyone is called to salvation but sin is left behind, it is not welcome and that includes false religions like hinduism.

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ost countries' legal system follows their religious beliefs. 

you misunderstand---they follow the Biblical way not just their false religious beliefs.

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They would not have sitings of intermediary species because according to science, the species we have today, were the same as back then.  Science is talking in hundreds of thousands of years, not just a few thousand.

modern scientists were not present 100,000 years ago and they have no clue what took place when. what they say means nothing because they have no ancient writings to support their theory and they are only guessing because they do not want the biblical way.

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However, they thought the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun revolved around the earth. 

no they didn't you just extrapolate a few statements from a minute number of people to all ancient peoples.  for all modern scientists know, the earth could be the center of the universe for they do not know where the boundaries lie.

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In those days, names were passed on in families so surely in all the Bible, they'd get at least something right.  The odds favor them getting at least a few things correct.  The Bible was a compilation of the writings of different people.  They were relating what they knew from their reference point.  They probably had records that showed what slaves sold for, that's not rocket science. 

you do not know anything about the ancient world, so stop talking like you are an expert. you make justifications and excuses so you can continue to follow lies.

Quote
Those of us who have suffered cruelty at the hands of others, don't agree with you

ahh yes, the old 'we did this and are the only ones who have done it so we know everything' defense. you are not the only ones to have suffered, you know nothing. your whole post is just jibberish and vacant of fact, evidence and anythign legitimate.

you certainly do not know what you are talking about so unless you have something new to present get back on topic.  darwin and all evolutionists are wrong. in fact not one evolutinary scientist is or has replicated one actual claimed change attributed to the process of evolution. it fails as science and it fails as the truth.
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Robert0326
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« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2010, 09:14:35 am »

You still didn't answer my question Archeologist.  If these are not the ancestors of man, what exactly are they?


Toumai - Sahelanthropus tchadensis
Kenyanthropus - Kenyanthropus platyops
Australopithecus afarensis
Australopithecus africanus
Australopithecus anamensis
Australopithecus garhi
Australopithecus aethiopicus
Australopithecus boisei
Australopithecus robustus
Homo habilis
Homo rudolfensis
Homo ergaster
Homo erectus
Homo neanderthalensis
Homo sapiens
Homo habilis
Homo rudolfensis
Homo ergaster
Homo erectus
Homo neanderthalensis
Homo sapiens

The Tel Dan Stele mentions the house of David.  Big deal

The Merenpthah Stele mentions Israel and Canaan, however, is brief, and a large part of the stele concerns Merneptah's campaign against the Libyans.  Again... Big deal.


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« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2010, 04:25:21 pm »

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If these are not the ancestors of man, what exactly are they?


they are all mis-identified bones or partial skeletons and are names made up by those who want alternatives to the Bible. since none of those creatures has ever been observed alive at best the identifications are assumptions, conjectures, and wishful thinking.

you cannot determine evolutionary processing by just looking at old bones, there are too many plausible sources for any differences in the skeletons. plus not one of those changes has ever been observed in action to prove it was the process of evolution at work or responsible nor has any of those claimed changes been replicated by secular scientists. artificial experiments do not count for they lack the original conditions that made said claimed evolutionary changes.

now do not give me the old song and dance that 'evolution simply means change'. i have heard far too often and it is a bogus definition meant to distort the fact that evolution cannot be proven true as claimed by darwin or subsequent evolutionary scientists. it is too broad and there is NO time to prove that the changes were from evolutionary activities.

p.s. you have neanderthal listed twice as well as sapiens, erectus and a few others.
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« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2010, 09:01:42 am »

Wow!  You actually used that lame explanation.  Roll Eyes  I guess it could have be worse.  You could have used the even more laughable, "god put them there to test our faith" explanation.  Or do you creationists just use that one to explain the dinosaurs.  I swear you guys read by script when debating.  Roll Eyes

They haven't been observed in real life is because they are extincted.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Yes you can observe the evolutionary process by studying old bones.  That's how it is done.  So clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.  Curious as to no rebuttal about the Stele.  I guess I gotcha on that one, huh.  Grin

And nitpicking about typing a few species a few time..  Really?
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« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2010, 11:25:16 am »

It would appear Robert, that archaeologist feels he is totally in the know beyond all the scientists who have given us what they've learned in all the different fields, so I for one, will leave him to his delusions.  He calls himself archaeologist but decries what that subject teaches. Perhaps he and Ostanes should get together and turn the world on it's ear Cheesy  Between them, they must know everything in the world and beyond, that there is to know.  At least, that's what they seem to be saying.  

I don't believe EVERYTHING science teaches, but let's give credit where credit is due.  Without the scholars in these different fields, we would still be back in the dark ages, believing the world was flat and putting to death anyone who said different and burning people at the stake because they had a vision or the "second sight".   I've never claimed to be an expert on anything.  What I've said, is that I've researched what others say, so I can learn for myself.

I said that Hinduism was the oldest religion, because most reference books list it as the world's oldest (organized) religion; mainly because it has the oldest recorded history which stems from Dravidianism which is estimated to have been in practice around 6000 BCE and therefore predates Sumerian, Babylonian and Egyptian beliefs. ( Hinduism itself, dates back to 1,500 BCE, when the Vedas, the sacred texts of Hinduism, were written.   Hinduism as a religion has no known creator, as it was put together from a variety of traditional beliefs from different cultures and mythologies.)   If one wants to split hairs, one could say perhaps that witchcraft or a type of shamanism was the first religion, perhaps resulting from dreams and visions acquired in a trance state, or altered state of consciousness.
If you know something different archaeologist, why not so state, instead of just telling me I'm wrong?  

 

 
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« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2010, 11:39:46 am »

The oldest religion is sun worship.
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Robert0326
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« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2010, 03:20:07 pm »

Your right Qoais, without science, free-thinking and open inquiry I think we would be still in the dark ages.  He has not produced one article or any rational response to this debate.  All he does is quote scripture and rant about the bible as the only truth in the universe.  It's a shame that we live in the 21 st. century and people like archeologist are as ignorant as they were in the dark ages.
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"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."     Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 -Thomas Jefferson
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« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2010, 05:08:56 pm »

The oldest religion is sun worship.


Older that the Hindu beliefs Tom?

Hinduism


Surya
The Ādityas are one of the principal deities of the Vedic classical Hinduism belonging to Solar class. In the Vedas, numerous hymns are dedicated to Mitra, Varuna, Savitr etc.
Even the Gayatri mantra, which is regarded as one of the most sacred of the Vedic hymns is dedicated to Savitr, one of the principal Ādityas. The Adityas are a group of solar deities, from the Brahmana period numbering twelve. The ritual of sandhyavandanam, performed by Hindus, is an elaborate set of hand gestures and body movements, designed to greet and revere the Sun.
The Sun God in Hinduism is an ancient and revered deity. In later Hindu usage, all the Vedic Ādityas lost identity and metamorphosed into one composite deity, Surya, the Sun. The attributes of all other Ādityas merged into that of Surya and the names of all other Ādityas became synonymous with or epithets of Surya.
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

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