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Private Enterprise- To mars

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mdsungate
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2007, 11:26:42 am »

 Smiley  QUOTE OF QOAIS:

Quote
and there will be those that want to be the first ones there to get in on the ground floor and supposedly make a fortune.  New frontiers and all that.


Yes to be sure, i.e. “The Martian Chronicles”, (great story.)    To be sure we want the best for our children, and in the process perhaps we spoil them to the point that they become lazy beyond our intentions.  The technology is spoiling us all for that matter.  Today if the dishwasher breaks, we use paper plates!  My kids argue over which one of them has to get off the couch to bring them the remote control!!

On the flip side of this however is that they have all become so motivated to possess more and more of this technology.  All my kids want jobs and the labor laws forbid them to work until they’re over 16.  Mind you they want to work, not out of ambition, but out of greed, but hey I could say that about myself, LOL. 

Today both men and women work, no one stays home to clean the house or take care of children, and if it weren’t for child labor laws, I think the kids would be out there working, (nothing too physical mind you), just to buy the latest techno-gadget! 

I’m not sure that this qualifies as ambition?  But I can see people going to Mars just because it will be “modern” “technologically advanced” the new “place to be”  Wink



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Volitzer
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2007, 12:26:31 pm »

One of my daughters could have been a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon because she is highly intelligent.  Altho we couldn't afford to send her to univesity, she did absolutely nothing to help herself.  After she was married, her husband offered to send her to university and she declined.  Too much trouble.
Basically, our society has bred laziness.  Mommie has to drive the kids everywhere or they won't go.  That same daughter wanted to take figure skating lessons, but she wouldn't walk to the skating rink.  Had there been a David Bowie concert, she'd have been the first one there!
Both girls have told me that they hated it when they came home from school and saw me scrubbing the floors on my hands and knees and standing for hours with a wringer washing machine doing the laundry.  I couldn' believe it.  I LOVED doing those things.  They felt sorry for me!!!!

So - it's a mind set I guess.  There will be those that WILL study and learn and develop terra forming on mars, and there will be those that want to be the first ones there to get in on the ground floor and supposedly make a fortune.  New frontiers and all that.

It all goes back to the Illuminati's liberalism and how they seek to destroy America.

Keep dumbing the kids down generation after generation for the purpose of total control. 

Think of the 60's and 70's icon Adam West as Batman versus today where you have Vin Diesel as Riddick or XXX.   Icons used to be smart, energetic, ambitious and you could learn from them.  Now they are a bunch of user-schmucks who can barely get out a full sentence.
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mdsungate
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2007, 01:08:19 pm »

 Smiley  Quoting Volitzer: 

Quote
Icons used to be smart, energetic, ambitious and you could learn from them.  Now they are a bunch of user-schmucks who can barely get out a full sentence.

LMAO: So true, so true!  And what happened to the morality of the Humphry Bogarts?  I guess the character played by Swartzenager in "Total Recall"(the Martian action flick), is what we can expect to find on the future Mars Colony, LOL.  Heaven help the next generation!   Roll Eyes
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Qoais
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2007, 04:42:23 pm »

Slaves In Training
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HereForNow
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« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2007, 08:21:03 pm »

Slaves In Training

Interesting that you say that. Were all slaves, that support a self-liquidating system that is already starting to show signs of weakening. Very soon, things like food shortages and financial melt-down will be in headlines everywhere.

Let's make the most of it folks.
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mdsungate
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« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2007, 12:14:20 pm »

 Cheesy  Food shortage?  With the price of milk now they’ll be a surplus, LOL.  Meanwhile back on Mars, Qoais, since this is a somewhat appropriate spot for talking about “construct” planets, I’ll go into a little more depth about what I mentioned earlier.

Here’s my starting premise:  Suppose we were a technologically advanced civilization, (which we’re getting there, LOL), and you set out to build a human habitat in outer space.  Let’s call it an artificial planet, or small moon, (and yes inevitably the “the Star Wars death star” comes to mind. So let’s start there, save the planet smashing death ray.  Even the “death star” had a problem, in that it, (at least the second one) needed a force shield from the moon of Endor to protect itself.  We haven’t developed energy shields as of yet, so then what would we do to protect the space station from potentially devastating collisions with meteors and asteroids. 

How about if we began by “towing” small meteors and space debris to the space station and piling them around the outside surface.  If we could keep piling them until we had a layer of ‘basically’ rock surrounding the space station as a “collision” shield of inexpensive, readily available material. 

Once the rock debris was, let’s say a mile thick, it would create it’s own gravitational field.  Now we could walk on the surface of this artificial structure without floating away into space.  At the same time we could also walk on the inside of this surface, making the metal inside sphere of the space station a surface with it’s own gravity. 

Of course only one mile thick would not protect us against larger impacts, as we’ve seen on earth, meteor strikes can impact over a mile into the surface, even after the atmosphere has diminished them.  So we keep piling on more space debris to protect our new home. 

If we can accumulate enough space debris to have a few miles of it, then by now, the increased gravitational field will allow for an atmosphere, however thin.  So we begin to create one by melting space ice into water and perhaps frozen nitrogen that may exit in the outer parts of the solar system, given that at least one of the outer planets is composed mostly of it. 

Well we’ve gone this far, so why not continue.  The weight of all those stones is now pressing inward to crush our metal structure which is basically hollow, as far as it’s density is concerned.  The gravitational forces would be pressing to the center of the layer of rock we’ve been building.  Let’s keep piling it on until it’s miles and miles deep.

By now the gravitational pressure in the center of this rock layer is crushing the rocks and compressing them.  As the pressure increases so does the heat.  The heat eventually becomes intense enough to melt the rock into a molten layer in the center of the surrounding sphere of rock that protects our artificial space station. This is yet an even better layer of protection against astral strikes, because the impacting bodies will now hit two different densities of both solid and liquid matter. 

Well at this point why not increase the density of the atmosphere, and add more water to protect most of the surface with yet another liquid layer of protection.  Now asteroid or comet impacts would hit liquid water, then solid rock, then liquid rock, and then solid rock again, before they could reach our space station.  At this point we are fairly safe from any and most all of the kinds of astral impacts, save a collision with another moon or planet. 

And now we have our own little planet that we could plant life on and come up from our space station to hunt or fish or relax on beaches for recreation.  Perhaps some would even elect to live on the surface, although it would not be as safe as the interior of our now well-protected space station.  I purposely left out that we’d need to build a couple of entrances and exits, because the obvious place for this would be at the top and the bottom, or in other words at the poles…and then we now come to a now obvious similarity.

Given the now much popularized theories of the comet strikes and asteroid collisions that supposedly wiped out the dinosaurs, wouldn’t a “truly” intelligent species choose to build their fragile structures of civilization inside a planet, provided that that planet were indeed hollow?  When I started to muse about “ultimate” space stations, persistent and “crazy” hollow earth theory was not what was on my mind.  But I arrived there by accident with this thought:

What if the “natural” formation of a planet results in a “bubble” of cosmic material that eventually hardens… inside the “bubble” and outside the “bubble” with a molten layer in the center of the “bubble’s” outer sphere?  Then perhaps we are not the most intelligent species on the planet.  Thus, why would extraterrestrial civilizations choose to communicate with the surface people who are “stupid” enough to live on the unprotected surface, to face destruction, after destruction from the skies above? 

Perhaps the Venusians from the interior of Venus, and the Martians from the interior or Mars, observe us frequently on their way to the interior of the Earth to visit the more advanced beings that inhabit our planet's interior.  Are these the the legendary “ant people” with whom the Hopi Indians lived with to survive the destruction of the three “previous worlds.”   Are these advanced beings the zookeepers, and we’re the preserved species living in a natural habitat on the unprotected surface?  This thought has me wondering.  How about you?  Cool


 
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HereForNow
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« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2007, 10:19:17 pm »

Meanwhile back on Mars, Qoais, since this is a somewhat appropriate spot for talking about “construct” planets, I’ll go into a little more depth about what I mentioned earlier.



Then again private enterprise has drwn up lot's of wonderful visions of these human habitats in space. Computer animated them for documentaries and wah-lah. A plan!
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Volitzer
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« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2007, 01:24:22 am »

Cheesy  Food shortage?  With the price of milk now they’ll be a surplus, LOL.  Meanwhile back on Mars, Qoais, since this is a somewhat appropriate spot for talking about “construct” planets, I’ll go into a little more depth about what I mentioned earlier.

Here’s my starting premise:  Suppose we were a technologically advanced civilization, (which we’re getting there, LOL), and you set out to build a human habitat in outer space.  Let’s call it an artificial planet, or small moon, (and yes inevitably the “the Star Wars death star” comes to mind. So let’s start there, save the planet smashing death ray.  Even the “death star” had a problem, in that it, (at least the second one) needed a force shield from the moon of Endor to protect itself.  We haven’t developed energy shields as of yet, so then what would we do to protect the space station from potentially devastating collisions with meteors and asteroids.

Just strengthen the natural e-field of the metal alloy of which you build it from.  Venusians use e-fields with the cars on their own planet so should an accident happen the e-fields take the punishment and neither the car nor the humans are affected.  Such technology would eliminate high insurance rates and body shops.  You could runn current through the space station and the e-field would have the repulsory effect of 2 north sided magnets. 

How about if we began by “towing” small meteors and space debris to the space station and piling them around the outside surface.  If we could keep piling them until we had a layer of ‘basically’ rock surrounding the space station as a “collision” shield of inexpensive, readily available material. 

Nah !!!!!

Once the rock debris was, let’s say a mile thick, it would create it’s own gravitational field.  Now we could walk on the surface of this artificial structure without floating away into space.  At the same time we could also walk on the inside of this surface, making the metal inside sphere of the space station a surface with it’s own gravity. 

Of course only one mile thick would not protect us against larger impacts, as we’ve seen on earth, meteor strikes can impact over a mile into the surface, even after the atmosphere has diminished them.  So we keep piling on more space debris to protect our new home. 

If we can accumulate enough space debris to have a few miles of it, then by now, the increased gravitational field will allow for an atmosphere, however thin.  So we begin to create one by melting space ice into water and perhaps frozen nitrogen that may exit in the outer parts of the solar system, given that at least one of the outer planets is composed mostly of it. 

Well we’ve gone this far, so why not continue.  The weight of all those stones is now pressing inward to crush our metal structure which is basically hollow, as far as it’s density is concerned.  The gravitational forces would be pressing to the center of the layer of rock we’ve been building.  Let’s keep piling it on until it’s miles and miles deep.

By now the gravitational pressure in the center of this rock layer is crushing the rocks and compressing them.  As the pressure increases so does the heat.  The heat eventually becomes intense enough to melt the rock into a molten layer in the center of the surrounding sphere of rock that protects our artificial space station. This is yet an even better layer of protection against astral strikes, because the impacting bodies will now hit two different densities of both solid and liquid matter. 

Well at this point why not increase the density of the atmosphere, and add more water to protect most of the surface with yet another liquid layer of protection.  Now asteroid or comet impacts would hit liquid water, then solid rock, then liquid rock, and then solid rock again, before they could reach our space station.  At this point we are fairly safe from any and most all of the kinds of astral impacts, save a collision with another moon or planet. 

And now we have our own little planet that we could plant life on and come up from our space station to hunt or fish or relax on beaches for recreation.  Perhaps some would even elect to live on the surface, although it would not be as safe as the interior of our now well-protected space station.  I purposely left out that we’d need to build a couple of entrances and exits, because the obvious place for this would be at the top and the bottom, or in other words at the poles…and then we now come to a now obvious similarity.

Given the now much popularized theories of the comet strikes and asteroid collisions that supposedly wiped out the dinosaurs, wouldn’t a “truly” intelligent species choose to build their fragile structures of civilization inside a planet, provided that that planet were indeed hollow?  When I started to muse about “ultimate” space stations, persistent and “crazy” hollow earth theory was not what was on my mind.  But I arrived there by accident with this thought:

What if the “natural” formation of a planet results in a “bubble” of cosmic material that eventually hardens… inside the “bubble” and outside the “bubble” with a molten layer in the center of the “bubble’s” outer sphere?  Then perhaps we are not the most intelligent species on the planet.  Thus, why would extraterrestrial civilizations choose to communicate with the surface people who are “stupid” enough to live on the unprotected surface, to face destruction, after destruction from the skies above? 

Perhaps the Venusians from the interior of Venus, and the Martians from the interior or Mars, observe us frequently on their way to the interior of the Earth to visit the more advanced beings that inhabit our planet's interior.  Are these the the legendary “ant people” with whom the Hopi Indians lived with to survive the destruction of the three “previous worlds.”   Are these advanced beings the zookeepers, and we’re the preserved species living in a natural habitat on the unprotected surface?  This thought has me wondering.  How about you?  Cool

Venusians live on the surface, Martians have to live underground.

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Volitzer
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« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2007, 01:25:52 am »


I’m not sure that this qualifies as ambition?  But I can see people going to Mars just because it will be “modern” “technologically advanced” the new “place to be”  Wink


Earth humanity isn't going anywhere until we clean up our act.
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Qoais
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« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2007, 11:06:19 am »




I know nothing about space or what goes on out there, or how to pressurize a planet etc.  But I was thinking that since we already have a space station, it could be "enlarged.  It would take quite a number of years of course, but perhaps with robots.........Huh
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HereForNow
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« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2007, 01:37:17 am »

You know, I love the concept. This design is exactly what is possible. Now, if we had a way to electronically manipulate carbon nanotubes to begin erecting structures like this on a smaller scale to start. There is no telling how that technology could be used to assemble everything. A super computer and space debris with the help of nano-bots to serve as nurse-cells begin to replicate a design that special software fabricates.

Nano-bots are in control of manuvering microscopic bits of material using electomagnetic feilds controlled by radio-frequency waves. Nanotubes begin to reinforce scrap materials from the Earth by gathering them all together. As each of the enforcement portions are brought to together large robots are launched by a satelite and used to guide the larger sections together while sending commands to the nano-bots to fuse them together.

Will it work? 
Have it guys.....
 Wink

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Qoais
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« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2007, 02:11:59 am »

To manipulate the graphite buckyballs (after they've been mass produced of course) we learn how the ancients moved mega-ton blocks with harmonics Grin  Then we get a choir to sing in the right key, (we'd need several back-up choirs Tongue) or play a continuous tape which is easier  Cheesy and we'd have a construct in no time Grin

Electronically manipulate?  What's wrong with a remote?  We've got them for just about everything else!  I like the part about replicating.  Saves a lot of man hours!

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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

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DDDnD3D
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« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2007, 06:35:09 am »

*** First of all . . . Shouldnt this be in the SPACE section under MARS ? ? ? Why are we getting all spread out here? The Main Topic is Space/Mars ! Its all Future Science Jack ! "LETS SIMPLIFY" ! ! ! is the Rule of any Art School !   Secondly:  CONSTRUCTS need a section all on its own. The possibility of Mars and the probability of its moon Phobos as Constructs is one thing ! But we have to include all possible known Constructs so far! For example the moon IAPETUS . . . asteroid ALPHA . . . comet HALE BOPP. . . and possibly mother EARTH and her Moon as constructs and then the immense Constructs of the VEDAS? [ ATTENTION ADMINISTRATORS ] : So all Images and Text submitted so far relating to this subject throughout this Forum Must and Should be brought together under one topic.   Past Science? Ancient Science? but not Future Science ! This is something that has already existed and must be examined and explored in this time!       **DnD**   c.
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mdsungate
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« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2007, 09:59:20 am »

 Smiley  QUOTE: 
Quote
*** First of all . . . Shouldnt this be in the SPACE section under MARS ? ? ?


Sorry if I’ve waylaid this thread, ‘D3D.  I was following up on something that Qoais had posted in another tread.  Maybe we should ask an admin about starting a space construct thread?  Bianaca started a new one for my "gold bugs" (a spin off from Vimani's)  Maybe this should be a spin off too.

But Herefornow seems to like this notion, and I’ve fascinated by the idea of nano robots used to construct a space station, or perhaps to enlarge the existing one.  This may seem off topic for Mars, but building such a space station to orbit Mars might be a very good place to start if any private enterprise were to try to colonize the red planet.  Maybe going down to build a martian colony on work days and coming home to an orbiting space station at night would be a better plan, at least until they had something more livable on the surface. 

QUOTE Posted by: Volitzer:


Quote
Venusians live on the surface, Martians have to live underground.
\

Okay, I’m not sure where you’re getting this information or opinion, but I’m intrigued.  As far as the Martians go, I can see why they would choose to live underground.  And Dr. Courtney Brown’s remote viewing experiences would definitely agree with you on this.  But the last time I read anything about the surface of Venus, it was around 900 degrees, was largely hydrocarbons in the atmosphere, and rained sulfuric acid.  Do the Venusians live in domed enclosures, or are they adapted to this kind of harsh environment?


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HereForNow
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« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2007, 10:22:58 am »

But Herefornow seems to like this notion, and I’ve fascinated by the idea of nano robots used to construct a space station, or perhaps to enlarge the existing one.  This may seem off topic for Mars, but building such a space station to orbit Mars might be a very good place to start if any private enterprise were to try to colonize the red planet.  Maybe going down to build a martian colony on work days and coming home to an orbiting space station at night would be a better plan, at least until they had something more livable on the surface. 



That is exactly where I was going with the idea. However, the intent is to encourage a constructed space station in orbit around Earth first. Then launch the entire station to Mars. Portions of the station will remain in orbit to serve as a releif center, and warehouse, satelite, ect. Modular sections of the station will actually land on the surface.  Wink

This way, a bunch of people are going to Mars on something that looks like, well a Deathstar.
Sheilding and the rotation of this massive object solves atleast 2 of the problems we've been presented with. And a small crew of about 60 should be able to handle the job nicely.

Ofcourse, it would take an international effort to acheive. I don't see this as impossible, or a fantasy.
We have the technology now, to make a plan like this actually happen.
Even when you think about how your going to power something like this, we have fusion reactors that could use helium 3. (found on the moon) Or seperate extractors using all raw materials to the fullest potential.
Propultion, Ion Drive. Water, hydrogen collectors on surface of this station.

I mean, if they can extract oxygen and hydrogen from space rocks, and even the surface of both the moon and Mars. Then we can do it from an artificial planet like "Space station Exodus". Built entirely by a super computer that is programmed to utilize only the most human friendly procedures in construction, which will also be going with the station to preserve human life.


Private Enterprise is about the only thing wealthy enough, and ambitious enough to even touch an idea like this. Thats why I feel it fits the bill.
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