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News: THE SEARCH FOR ATLANTIS IN CUBA
A Report by Andrew Collins
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Angels & Demons
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« on: June 09, 2010, 01:22:25 am »

Etymology / Origin of the word Atlantis

The etymological explanation of ATLANTIS contradicts the OED, http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=atlantis&searchmode=none and also the Atlantis articles on Wikipedia in other languages. Which one is correct?

~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.47.144.254 (talk) 19:46, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
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Angels & Demons
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2010, 01:22:53 am »

"Recent Times" section

I clicked on the link of that source, and Googled the authors; by the looks of them, they are archaeologists, not geologists, so they lack the necessary qualifications to make an "impossibility" assertion. Besides, the documentary "Life After People" demonstrated to everyone, how easily even an advanced civilization can dissapear without a trace. With volcanoes and the ocean involved, that only increases the likelihood. I need to present everyone with a challenge; what if the people of Atlantis, were black? It would certainly turn racist ideas on their head, if it were true. Also, what if, at the time Atlantis existed, the ancestors of whites were all pathetically primitive? Just throwing it out there; I wonder how white people would react, if what I just said where ever "discovered" in the year, say, 2012. If I'm right, lets see you be full of yourselves then.

67.148.120.84 (talk) 14:18, 2 April 2010 (UTC)stardingo747
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Angels & Demons
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2010, 01:23:38 am »

Professor Willy Ley

In the 1960s the late Prof Ley reviewed the whole of Platos story about Atlantis and decided that it was indeed a poltical allegory and based on Tartessos in spain and the invasion of the Sea People into what is now Levant. He titled his work "View over Atlantis".

The only part that I might disagree about was Tartessos. Plato was an educated Greek and would have been aware of most of the Mediterranean area including the cities. No author starts witha completely blank sheet and the description of circular moats is possibly based on the docks at Carthage.

This was the era before the Punic wars and carthage was a thriving city with trading contacts with Greece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.93.199.155 (talk) 15:21, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
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Angels & Demons
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2010, 01:23:55 am »

Professor Willy Ley

In the 1960s the late Prof Ley reviewed the whole of Platos story about Atlantis and decided that it was indeed a poltical allegory and based on Tartessos in spain and the invasion of the Sea People into what is now Levant. He titled his work "View over Atlantis".

The only part that I might disagree about was Tartessos. Plato was an educated Greek and would have been aware of most of the Mediterranean area including the cities. No author starts witha completely blank sheet and the description of circular moats is possibly based on the docks at Carthage.

This was the era before the Punic wars and carthage was a thriving city. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.93.199.155 (talk) 15:23, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
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Angels & Demons
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2010, 01:24:15 am »

Pillars of Hercules

I am a firm believer that Platos story about Atlantis was indeed a fictional political allegory but in the interests of providing the widest possible background would add one more snippet.

Many years ago there was an article in the international press where a Greek professor suggested that the original Pillars of Hercules were natural feature on the Greek coast. Which may suggest that Plato had the Santorini devastion of Crete partly in mind when composing his books.

Only many generations later was the name then applied to the present Straits of Gibraltar.
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Angels & Demons
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2010, 01:25:47 am »

Edits to make Article More Encyclopedic

I excised a number of sentences that were mostly superfluous personal commentary. In addition, I removed a handful of personal pronouns. It is pretty clear this article in its current form is more or less someone's personal essay. I am also of the opinion that the article should be reorganized to have Plato's account first, since that is probably the most pertinent information about Atlantis. The history timeline, while interesting, doesn't talk much about Atlantis, and it could be cut up a bit, but I will leave that to someone else as I am not Atlantis scholar. Shawn M. O'Hare 13:25, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
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Angels & Demons
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2010, 01:26:38 am »

    Well, I just saw that this article was written again, and honestly, I'm impressed ( I was chocked with the previous article). I think the article is now fine. It is not a personal essay, I watched and read about this issue, and this follows the usual and same pattern.Maybe your suggestions should be added. But I think it is a good article and now it can be translated to other languages. -Pedro 02:17, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

    hey, the article is definitely taking shape. well done. dab (ᛏ) 18:30, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

    I appreciate your concern Shawn. Actually, the article was a mess. True. However, and after an initiative by Reflex Reaction [1], the article's started to take shape.
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2010, 01:26:45 am »

    Now, we have Location hypotheses of Atlantis as well as Atlantis in fiction. Those two articles have been originated from the main Atlantis. The good news is that we are being consistent now in terms of what goes where [2] and [3]. As for my part, and as a consequence, I created Category:Atlantis, as an expectation that the main article would generate many other generic ones. Also, because that the main article would only treat the origins of the story, myth, fact (call it whatever you like) and the generalities. As of today, we have 14 articles under that category.

    On the other hand, I don't believe there exsit any original research. In fact, the articles lack sources. True. Let's work on that too. If you are knowledgeable about the topic (at a minimum, not necesserly an expert), you'd agree that Atlantis is a controversial topic. However, all theories related to Atlantis that are presented in wikipedia articles are encyclopaedic. It doesn't matter if they are right or not but they exist as theories. True again. In other words, the article(s) are neither a mess nor are original research. -- Cheers -- Svest 19:38, 2 December 2005 (UTC)  Wiki me up™
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Angels & Demons
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2010, 01:27:06 am »

Ireland???

I read in some online news article that Ireland fits the physical statistics of Atlantis, and that the story is a mythical version of some city of 15000 people in ancient northern Ireland that was destroyed by a flood. I'll try and find a resource for this, but it's gotta go in the article somewhere eventually.--ikiroid | (talk) 20:29, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I found the site: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5623857/ --ikiroid | (talk) 20:32, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

    There are many theories about the location Atlantis, please put it Location hypotheses of Atlantis. The small section on the location theories is intended to be just that. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 20:43, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2010, 01:27:34 am »

The Panathenaea

I've removed the stuff about the Panathenaea, as this festival had nothing to do with Atlantis or Poseidon. The idea that Poseidon founded Atlantis and that the Athenians had a war with the Atlanteans isn't part of mainstream Greek myth at all--it's a bizarrre fiction of Plato's. There is a myth that Athena and Poseidon had a competition to become the patron god(dess) of Athens, which Athena won, but this myth isn't very closely connected to the Panathenaea.

    There is something relevant in this URL [4] (scroll down to The Parthenon, Plato and Atlantis), According to this URL "the Frieze of the Parthenon contains all the elements of Plato's Atlantis" and the Frieze of the Parthenon did not represent Panathenaea, but the victory of Athena against the Atlanteans.

    There was however another ceremony called "Χύτρινοι αγώνες" (Khytrinoi agones), [5] described by Pauasanias to celebrate the survival from the cataclysm. It was performed near the Temple of Olympian Zeus. --Odysses 18:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2010, 01:27:47 am »

        Just skimming over the section, I see lots of original claims that appear not to be widely held. The Parthenon represents many things to many people, just as the American flag does. To claim relation with Atlantis is I think a tremendous stretch given the well known and studied victory of the Greeks over the Persians, not a mysterious Sea Peoples. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 18:47, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

            This URL does not of course reflect my POV. I posted it since I thought it was relevant to Panathenaea and Atlantis. --Odysses 19:38, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

                My apologies if I gave the impression that it was your POV that I was disagreeing with. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 19:56, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2010, 01:28:08 am »

Odysses, do you have a citation for where Pausanias describes the Χύτρινοι αγώνες? As far as I can tell, the LSJ only gives Apollodorus and Philochoros in that entry. Akhilleus 06:22, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

    Akhilleus, I found something about χύτροι (not Χύτρινοι αγώνες as I thought) in Anthesteria:

        E. Rohde and M. P. Nilsson, however, take the χύτροι to mean "water vessels," and connect the ceremony with the Hydrophoria, a libation festival to propitiate the dead who had perished in the flood of Deucalion.

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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2010, 01:28:23 am »

    And another description:

        Close to the temple of the Olympian Zeus a fissure in the soil was shown, in length but one cubit, through which it was said the waters of the Deluge had been swallowed tip. [6]

    Pausanias, Description of Greece [7]:

        Within the precincts are antiquities: a bronze Zeus, a temple of Cronus and Rhea and an enclosure of Earth surnamed Olympian. Here the floor opens to the width of a cubit, and they say that along this bed flowed off the water after the deluge that occurred in the time of Deucalion, and into it they cast every year wheat meal mixed with honey (Pausanias 1.18.7).--Odysses 12:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2010, 01:28:43 am »

Other Greek accounts

The "other Greek accounts" section is a mess. We need more precise citations of ancient authors. It would also be good to avoid equating every mythical island in the west with Atlantis. The island of the Hesperides, for instance, is definitely not the same as Atlantis. The material about Ammianus Marcellinus appears to be inaccurate, but it's hard to confirm without knowing what passages are being cited...

I'm tempted to just delete the whole section, but perhaps someone else can suggest a less drastic course of action. Akhilleus 22:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2010, 01:28:55 am »

    I agree with you on both points (improve, and don't delete), but I specifically don't know enough about those topics to do much editing on them in particular. I will try to do so sometime this week though. Your help would be appreciated. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 18:58, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

        Most of the authors don't talk about Atlantis, as far as I can tell right now, and so should be removed. Any authors that talk about Atlantis, of course, should be retained! But since the section doesn't give precise references, it's hard to check whether the authors say anything about Atlantis or not--reading through all the fragments of Theophrastus without some kind of specific reference would take forever. And Atlantis is the kind of thing where enthusiasts seize on anything that seems to prove their point, so it's quite possible the original passage will have absolutely nothing to do with Atlantis. Again, I'm not going to just start deleting things wholesale, but if someone has a secondary source that talks about these authors, and can point us to a specific work or passage, that would really help. Akhilleus 06:28, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

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