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Get Ready for More Proto-Humans

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archaeologist
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2010, 04:51:05 pm »

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I say they were pre-programmed. You don't believe they were. You ask me for evidence that says prove it. Now hand over your evidence that they had a free choice... and that God specifically told them this. Deal?

The Bible, Gen. 2: 15-17; 3:1ff. 

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It doesn't matter if they (factors) remain unnamed because you signed on to your subjectivity when you said 'believe' and a 'distorted view.'

no that would not be true. a fact doesn't become subjective just because someone doesn't believe it or distorts it. you are now trying to play semantics to avoid the reality and truth.

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...then you don't want to see the ethical and moral implications implicit in that comment.

human ethical/moral standards do not apply to God but God's apply to humans. 

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Human's had no choice in the matter. They used and continue to use their God-given nature to act as they please.

humans always have a choice, you get to choose God's way or the devil's but not both.

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You are talking about economic hardships. I'm talking about humans killing each other.

suffering is suffering and your analogy fails because robots do not have free choice nor a mind of their own whereas humans do.

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Actually I do need a better example because God isn't doing the talking in that verse.


God is talking as He wrote the Bible and Jesus is God.

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How did you arrive at that conclusion? Do you mind elaborating a bit.

i am thinking that people, both christian and secular, understand very little about sexual preference and how the choice process works but again mitigating factors play a role and unless you are willing to accept those realities then you will never grasp what is done during the process. outside influences play a role in determining one's sexual orientation but one always has a choice.

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And why would a heterosexual convert if he/ she is doing what comes naturally? Same for Homosexuals.

asked and answered.
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Andrew Waters
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2010, 02:51:56 am »

The Bible, Gen. 2: 15-17; 3:1ff.

That verse is after the fact Archeologist. The creation was done, finished, all set up, including your so-called free choice. By the way what is 3:1ff?

While we are on chapters and verses what do you make of Isaiah 45:7, King James version; this version has been around probably a hundred years maybe more I'm not sure. 

''a fact doesn't become subjective
just because someone doesn't believe it or distorts it.''


I agree, a fact stands alone. But factors contribute to a result. That resulting factor/s, not fact, is still subjective. Are you still prepared to say I'm being semantical?

 ''Human ethical/moral standards do not
apply to God but God's apply to humans.''


Then you are saying humans have something that God had nothing to do with? I thought God was the creator and he knew what humans are capable of.

''humans always have a choice, you get to choose God's way or the devil's but not both.''

Again, if God created the devil, and the devil supposedly makes humans do bad things, then what does this say about the creator creating the devil... who, by the way, again, does bad things?

''suffering is suffering and your analogy fails because robots do not have free choice nor a mind of their own whereas humans do.''

Then a Christian might say God gave humans a choice to do good and evil because, the thinking goes, He wouldn't want robots serving him. If the robot is programmed correctly then why would there be an issue on being a robot; robots don't kill and maim each other like humans. This has already been discussed earlier.

''God is talking as He wrote the Bible and Jesus is God.''

A lot of Christians would take serious issue with you on that one. However that is no concern of mine if He is or isn't. 

''i am thinking that people, both christian and secular, understand very little about sexual preference and how the choice process works but again mitigating factors play a role and unless you are willing to accept those realities then you will never grasp what is done during the process. outside influences play a role in determining one's sexual orientation but one always has a choice.''

Most? Christians and lay people probably have no interest in the science behind being human. So those can be excluded because of their preconceived ideas about what causes sexual orientation.
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archaeologist
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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2010, 03:50:08 pm »

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While we are on chapters and verses what do you make of Isaiah 45:7,

what i make of it is that you will look at a verse you do not understand and take it out of context just to fit the point your are trying to make and i am not sure if you are in the right mindset to listen to any truth that needs to be said about that passage. you are focused on the word 'create' and use only one definition of the word as it suits your purposes.

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I agree, a fact stands alone. But factors contribute to a result. That resulting factor/s, not fact, is still subjective. Are you still prepared to say I'm being semantical?

yes. you are trying to avoid the truth and twist what i say  to get what you want. if facts are factors then the latter are not subjective. the truth is 'men love darkness rather than light' thus those factors enable the facts to work. men choose evil over God free choice is a fact and a factor.

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Then you are saying humans have something that God had nothing to do with? I thought God was the creator and he knew what humans are capable of.

nope and stop doing eisegesis. again you are twisting words to find what you want to find and not look for the truth. you know as well as i do that humans have free choice and you know that they construct their own 'moral code' contrary to the one that God has constructed and then try to place that secular moral code above God and hold Him in judgment to something he is not subject to.

i run into it all the time and those people who reject God's morality forget that God follows it as well or he would not be able to say that we have sinned, chosen to sin and then judge us. He would be hypocritical rendering Him, His words, His morality redundant and void.

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Again, if God created the devil, and the devil supposedly makes humans do bad things, then what does this say about the creator creating the devil... who, by the way, again, does bad things?

do you think that humans are the only ones He gave free choice to?  we are not privy to all the details that take place prior to creation thus to make judgments upon what He did or did not do with such a lack of information is not correct.

i see you ignore the verses, and do not quote them, that says opposite to what you are trying to say. try reading all of the Bible and see the whole picture not just those verses that you want to exploit.

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This has already been discussed earlier.

then you are being redundant. the issue is humans have free choice, they can either choose evil or God it is up to you and them--no one else. 

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A lot of Christians would take serious issue with you on that one. However that is no concern of mine if He is or isn't. 

i would question their christianity. not all people who claim to be christian are which is why we get so many false accusations that christians started wars and killed people. the secular world refuses to acknowledge the difference and lumps everyone who claims to be christian into the same basket thus distorting their view of true christianity. it would be better for them if they were just honest and said--we do not want to believe rather than making up accusations based upon partial data.

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Most? Christians and lay people probably have no interest in the science behind being human. So those can be excluded because of their preconceived ideas about what causes sexual orientation.

you have to consider the source of that 'scientific information'. why would  unbelievers, who do not want to believe or accept God prove Him correct. wouldn't they rather try to fiind excuses to justify their behavior so they can feel not responsible for their acts?

science is also a field for elitists and that is not what God is all about. it is very difficult for common people to refute scientists as they do not have the means, the tools, the intelligence etc. to verify the so-called 'work' of scientists (whose basic modus operendi is to rely on theory, hypothesis, conjecture not fact or truth). they take a toe bone and say the owner of it crawled, then take anothe rtoe bone and say that one walked yet they have no observational proof to support their conclusions.

the same with genetics, they assume and look to take a field that relatively few people know about or understand and create these fantastic theories, because they do not want the truth or are afraid to speak the truth for whatever reason.

sexual orientation is a choice andif the people do not want to repent of their sin then God gives them over to that sin so they cannot escape it (the book of romans talks about this 1:24 but read the whole chapter so you get the context). there is a penalty for sin if one does not repent of them.
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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2010, 10:10:05 pm »

''what i make of it is that you will look at a verse you do not
understand and take it out of context just to fit the point your are trying to
make and i am not sure if you are in the right mindset to listen to any truth
that needs to be said about that passage. you are focused on the word 'create'
and use only one definition of the word as it suits your purposes.''


Actually I did ask a pastor about that verse, Isaiah 45:7, many, many years ago, and he showed me a huge book that said the word ''create'' doesn't convey the meaning I thought it did. There are several uses he said. So, I'll ask you, just as I asked the pastor, of those several uses what meaning is intended in that verse. Is it your intent to lay blame on the Biblical writers not knowing what they were reading and that they should have recognized the error and deleted it so future generations wouldn't have to deal with it.? Further, if you can summarily dismiss the verse then what else are you prepared to dismiss that's been in the Bible for centuries.

''you are trying to avoid the truth and twist what i say  to get what you want. if facts are factors then the latter are not subjective.''

I do believe I said factors aren't necessarily facts. Factors can be subjective; such as your truth.

''you know as well as i do that humans have free choice...''

I've been dialoging with you for several posts and I don't remotely remember where I gave you the impression humans have free will/choice.

 ''...and you know that they construct their own 'moral code' contrary to the one that God has constructed and then try to place that secular moral code above God and hold Him in judgment to something he is not subject to.''

Yet humans were created by God and they are simply following the script that has been established from the beginning. I'm thinking you are referring to the ten commandments? If so then why give a moral code probably hundreds or maybe even thousands, possibly tens of thousands of years after the creation? Did it take that long to recognize a deficit.

''i run into it all the time and those people who reject God's morality
forget that
God follows it as well or he would not be able to say that we have
sinned, chosen to sin and then judge us.''


Are you certain you know what God follows?

''Do you think that humans are the only ones He gave free choice to?

Since he (alledgedly) created the angels/Lucifer then yes he gave them your mythical free choice. But that's the crux of the problem. Your strong belief is definitely restricting you from seeing the obvious here. And that is the Biblical story gains no traction whatsoever invoking a creation by God, in heaven, long before the earth was mad habitable for humans, of some angel who supposedly was perfect ''until iniquity was found in thee''. This will be ''the devil.''

Now, if that 'iniquity was found in thee' won't set off the alarm then we definitely will have to continue to hash this out.

''We are not privy to all the details that take place prior to creation thus to make judgments upon what He did or did not do with such a lack of information is not correct.''

Keep it up you're starting to come around.

''i see you ignore the verses, and do not quote them, that says opposite to what you are
trying to say.''


Just like the pastor maybe you can tell me exactly what it means. And while you're at it lay the other meanings out for all to see.

'' try reading all of the Bible and see the whole picture not just those verses that you want to exploit.''

Actually I have read a good portion of it before I became disinterested; too much humanity and God-ordained human nature written all over it.

''you have to consider the source of that 'scientific information'. why would  unbelievers,
who do not want to believe or accept God prove Him correct.''


Not all scientists are atheists. But you probably know this and don't want to admit it.
 
''...so-called 'work' of scientists (whose basic modus operendi is to rely on theory,
hypothesis, conjecture not fact or truth).''


Then you rely totally on your faith and nothing substantive I see.

''they take a toe bone and say the owner of it crawled, then take another toe bone and say that one walked yet they have no observational proof to support their conclusions.''

Well I'm sure you will agree there is no way scientists can travel back in time to see your observational proof. Can you do it with your creationism?
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« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2010, 04:01:49 am »

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Actually I did ask a pastor about that verse, Isaiah 45:7, many, many years ago, and he showed me a huge book that said the word ''create'' doesn't convey the meaning I thought it did. There are several uses he said. So, I'll ask you, just as I asked the pastor, of those several uses what meaning is intended in that verse. Is it your intent to lay blame on the Biblical writers not knowing what they were reading and that they should have recognized the error and deleted it so future generations wouldn't have to deal with it.? Further, if you can summarily dismiss the verse then what else are you prepared to dismiss that's been in the Bible for centuries.

You make too many assumptions, if you talked to a pastor then you probably do not need to talk to me, that is if he was a true christian one.  your twisting of my words is ending this discussion a lot sooner than i had hoped and i will not respond to the rest of that paragraph.

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I do believe I said factors aren't necessarily facts. Factors can be subjective; such as your truth.

now you are just going in circles and it is not worth continuing to discuss with you.

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I've been dialoging with you for several posts and I don't remotely remember where I gave you the impression humans have free will/choice.

wow, a politically correct term, obviously you did as you have chosen to remain with evil even after talking to a christian pastor (if he was one). everyone has free choice.

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I'm thinking you are referring to the ten commandments? If so then why give a moral code probably hundreds or maybe even thousands, possibly tens of thousands of years after the creation? Did it take that long to recognize a deficit.

no i am not since God never changes nor do His rules thus what was wrong after the exodus was wrong before it and in the garden of eden or God could not have punished cain for his act of murder.

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Are you certain you know what God follows?

yes. if He didn't then humans could ignore His words and promised judgement for He would not be righteous or free of sin to judge or punish His disobedient creation.

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Your strong belief is definitely restricting you from seeing the obvious here.

the obvious may not be the truth and your unbelief hides it from you so you miss it.

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Keep it up you're starting to come around.


not at all, you just hear what you want to hear and assume i am doing something i am not. we do not know what took place heaven between God and lucifer, that is not germane to the choice you have to make as a unchurched human and that choice is to reject him and accept Christ as your savior or reject Christ and lose.

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Just like the pastor maybe you can tell me exactly what it means. And while you're at it lay the other meanings out for all to see.

nope. i am sensing that you are not serious nor really caring to know such things except it give you ammunition to fuel your hatred of Christ.

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Then you rely totally on your faith and nothing substantive I see.

do not need something substantive because it is 'using faith' that pleases God. 1 cor. 13 says if we love someone then we believe their words and it does not say that we seek proof for those words before we believe them.  if you doubt and go seek proof then you are saying you do not believe and do not love the person you claim to love.

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Well I'm sure you will agree there is no way scientists can travel back in time to see your observational proof. Can you do it with your creationism?

then those scientists cannot prove their theories nor provide anything substantive to show they are correct which leaves you in the same boat as me, you have to use faith. now my faith is in God while you put yours in fallible humans who do not know you exist nor care about you. i think i am the wiser one.
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« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2010, 11:32:21 pm »


''You make too many assumptions, if you talked to a pastor then you probably do not need to
talk to me, that is if he was a true christian one.''


Well I have to assume he was a Christian since he said he was. However he didn't mention anything about being a ''true'' Christian. Does this make one less than true if the person disagrees with the other Christian? You will recall I politely asked you to tell me what the other meanings of the word 'create' entailed. Just like the pastor you ignored it. But with fairness to the pastor he said that the way the word was used in that context was God didn't create evil; already noted above someplace if I recall correctly.

 So if the writers saw fit to set that verse down on paper, or some kind of material,  then what is meant by the expression ''don't add to or take away from scripture'', or something along those lines.

You have mentioned on a couple of occasions that I twisted your meaning. I pretty much dismissed that but now If you don't mind I'll ask you to cite where you believe I've done this... and not evoke a proper response from me concerning the words and arrangement you use to ''prove'' something. 
 
''...you have chosen to remain with evil even after talking to a christian pastor (if
he was one)'


Didn't you intend to say ''remain with human nature''?
 
''we do not know what took place heaven between God and lucifer, that is not
germane to the choice you have to make as a unchurched human and that choice is
to reject him and accept Christ as your savior or reject Christ and
lose.''


So you think it isn't permissible to ask questions about what transpired in heaven. If God created me and gave me the wherewithal to think, and be logical, and ask questions that need to be discussed, even amongst some church followers, then where is the strength in your argument that seemingly suggests one should remain silent and acquiesce to doctrine and dogma?

 ''i am sensing that you are not serious nor really caring
to know such things except it give you ammunition to fuel your hatred of
Christ.''


I don't hate anyone. Correction. I do hate murderers of little kids and innocent people.

''I do not need something substantive because it is 'using faith'
that pleases God.''


Indeed it is faith.
 
''Then those scientists cannot prove their theories nor
provide anything substantive to show they are correct which leaves you in the
same boat as me, you have to use faith.''


Do you dispute Chimpanzees being 95% to 98% percent the same as humans? Do you dispute mice being 80% the same as humans?. Do you dispute all life on this planet is related? Do you think evolutionists made all this up? There is no faith involved within that narrow context; those are facts. But you seemingly subscribe to the thinking evolutionists can't prove anything. Then you will be wrong. And no I don't believe everything I've read in mainstream evolutionary literature because from what I've read from the proponents of intelligent design and even 'secular' evolutionary biologists, evolution is a theory in crisis, in my opinion. Yet you can't dismiss it all.

'' now my faith is in God while you put yours in fallible humans who do not know you exist nor care about you. i think i am the wiser one.''

Good luck on your everlasting search for truth.
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archaeologist
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« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2010, 04:04:43 am »

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Well I have to assume he was a Christian since he said he was. However he didn't mention anything about being a ''true'' Christian. Does this make one less than true if the person disagrees with the other Christian?

no. there are a lot of people out there claiming to be christian when they are not. just trying to gauge the advice you got.

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You will recall I politely asked you to tell me what the other meanings of the word 'create' entailed. Just like the pastor you ignored it. But with fairness to the pastor he said that the way the word was used in that context was God didn't create evil; already noted above someplace if I recall correctly.

i did not ignore it but saw from your response that you got an answer from him so since i do not have the time and this is an internet forum, i took the opportunity to not be redundant. no God did not create evil but unless you are already a christian it is useless to explainit to you where you will grasp it or allow yourself to grasp it.

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So if the writers saw fit to set that verse down on paper, or some kind of material,  then what is meant by the expression ''don't add to or take away from scripture'', or something along those lines.

this is why atheists and unbelievers need to stay away from tring to apply the Bible to anything. they do not understand nor have the help of the Holy Spirit to apply it properly and correctly. finsding the correct way the word 'create' is used is doing neither.

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Didn't you intend to say ''remain with human nature''?

no. if you are not with God then you are on the side of evil and there is no grey or mioddle ground with Him. God was the first to say 'you are either for me or against me'.

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So you think it isn't permissible to ask questions about what transpired in heaven.

didn't say that but then such comments are to be expected from you as you twist people's words to try to get them to say something they did not. you can ask questions but i know of no one who would be able to give you an answer except Jesus.

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then where is the strength in your argument that seemingly suggests one should remain silent and acquiesce to doctrine and dogma?

you can ask all the questions you want BUT do not condemn nor reject those whom you ask when they cannotprovide you an answer. they may not know, have not studied the issue or God hasn't revealed it to them plus many other reasonable reasons why you will not get an answer.

christians still need to study to find things out, we are not zapped with all knowledge upon conversion. what we do know about what tookplace prior to creation is that lucifer decided he wanted to be above god, convinced some of his fellow angels to side with him and was defeated whereby he now roams the earth looking for people to destroy because he hates God.

how he came to make that decision, why God gave him free choice we do not know. there are some questions that will never have answers while we are on earth.

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I don't hate anyone. Correction. I do hate murderers of little kids and innocent people.

yet the Bible contradicts you. mat. 6:24

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Indeed it is faith.

read hebrews 11.

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Do you dispute Chimpanzees being 95% to 98% percent the same as humans? Do you dispute mice being 80% the same as humans?.

that does not prove they came from the same ancestor as humans. it does prove that they had the same creator who used similar materials.  just like a carpenter who makes  a set of chairs and a table he uses maple wood but not fom the same tree but their 'ingredients' show a 90% similarity between them but that doesn't prove they came from the same tree.

i also read in the book Genome that that 2-5% difference is vast and not as close as evolutionists let on. (it was written by an evolutionist)

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Do you think evolutionists made all this up?

yes they did since they cannot prove that the process actually exists (they can't put the actual process in a test tube) nor can they show that this imaginary process is actually responsible for what they claim took place. Then we have Gen 2:1 which states that the universe and earth were complete... which means that there is no evolutionary process nor natural selection at work in this world.

you need to understand how deception works first before making such statements. every con artist knows that you have to mis some truth into the con or it will not work

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But you seemingly subscribe to the thinking evolutionists can't prove anything.

they cannot prove their theory nor can they prove anything that God did not do.  notice they also can't mix things that God made incompatible with each other. alchemy, hybrid experiemtns all show that they cannot cross the boundaries God set. the process of evolution couldn't set any boundaries as it is a non-thinking, non-feeling, non-knowing process with no clue as to what it would be doing let alone guiding something it cannot conceive of nor owns (emotions, creativity, life, food) what it supposedly gave to all things on this earth.

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evolution is a theory in crisis, in my opinion. Yet you can't dismiss it all.

the former is correct the latter is not as i can dismiss all of evolution and its theories for that is not how life came to be. even micro-evolution is dismissed because it distorts God's creative work and gives glory to the wrong thing.

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Good luck on your everlasting search for truth.

i am not the one who needs the luck, it is you who needs to get bak to the Bible and read all of it and see what you are missing. this time start with the new testament.
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« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2010, 02:02:06 am »

''God did not create evil but unless you are already a christian it is useless to explainit to you where you will grasp it or allow yourself to grasp it.''

Yet the devil is evil... and you said God created the devil... so Isaiah 45:7 looks like it may be right after all?

I said:
''So you think it isn't permissible to ask questions about what transpired in heaven.''

You responded with:

''I didn't say that but then such comments are to be expected from you as you twist people's words to try to get them to say something they did not.''

Show me in my comment where you believe I'm trying to get you to say something you are not. All I asked you is whether you think... think, it isn't permissible. That isn't twisting anything archeologist. But I will tell what I think, again. You've painted yourself into a corner with no way out. Correction. I put you in a corner.

''you can ask all the questions you want BUT do not condemn nor reject those whom you ask when they cannotprovide you an answer.''

Listen to 'im talking here about me condemning and rejecting someone. Look in the mirror buddy, you're confusing me with some of your other debaters somewhere down the line. The strongest comment I made is I hate murderers who kill children and innocent folks. I'm using some of that god-given nature to react to things I find repugnant.
 
''yet the Bible contradicts you. mat. 6:24.''

King James, Mat 6:24:

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

That verse went right over my head Archeologist. I need your help to explain it to me so that I can garner a fuller grasp of what it really means and how it relates to my hatred of murderers who kill children and innocent people. You aren't trying to pull a fast one are you.
Is there anyone else here available to explain what I'm missing in the event Archeologist won't do it. 

''that does not prove they came from the same ancestor as humans. it does prove that they had the same creator who used similar materials. just like a carpenter who makes a set of chairs and a table he uses maple wood but not fom the same tree but their 'ingredients' show a 90% similarity between them but that doesn't prove they came from the same tree.''

Concerning your first sentence you will have to recall, at my urging, I said within the confines of context or something very similar to it. I said nothing about having a common ancestor. Of course I could give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you are trying to prove a point.
And does it prove they had the same creator? Well what if there were several creators who had an open ended creation program; probably called ''have at it boys and girls'' and set them loose in the creation process and came up with ugly designs like a Tyrannosaurus, triceratops and the whole list of those weird-looking animals. You do believe the earth had those kinds of animals don't you?

''i also read in the book Genome that that 2-5% difference is vast and not as close as evolutionists let on. (it was written by an evolutionist)''

Agree on that.

''yes they did since they cannot prove that the process actually exists (they can't put the actual process in a test tube) nor can they show that this imaginary process is actually responsible for what they claim took place.''

While I will agree on that too can you point out to an evolutionist where the Bible produces proof of this:

 ''Then we have Gen 2:1 which states that the universe and earth were complete... which means that there is no evolutionary process nor natural selection at work in this world.''

''they cannot prove their theory nor can they prove anything that God did not do.''

You are claiming you have proof God did it? Evolutionists, in some cases, have a lot of faith things happened the way they say it did. And they have some kind of model to work with other than a ''magician.''

 ''the process of evolution couldn't set any boundaries as it is ... [a] process with no clue as to what it would be doing let alone guiding something it cannot conceive of ...''

And it all comes down to the battle between religionists and evolutionists; both parties have a lot of faith. Of course the evolutionists will howl and deny they have faith of any kind because it makes them seem as though they agree with Christians, who don't need proof of anything. So in this sense their (Christian) faith is misguided. 

''...i can dismiss all of evolution and its theories for that is not how life came to be.''

Translation: you don't require proof of anything when it comes to the Bible.
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« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2010, 04:58:35 am »

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Yet the devil is evil... and you said God created the devil... so Isaiah 45:7 looks like it may be right after all?

asked and answered.

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Show me in my comment where you believe I'm trying to get you to say something you are not

read you last entry in your post.

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I'm using some of that god-given nature to react to things I find repugnant.
 

yet Jesus said to 'do good to those who do evil', 'do unto others...', and so many other instructions that provide you an alternative to hate and other misdeeds. God said 'to love mercy and do justly...' there is a lot you leave out so you can excuse your desire to do badly.

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That verse went right over my head

now here is where i think you are just playing me (the whole paragraph)and makes me not want to continue. i am not here for your entertainment and seeing that you took my answer and the verse out of context then applied your own repetitive response there is no point in responding to what you wrote in that paragraph.

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Well what if there were several creators who had an open ended creation program;

there wasn't w.f. albright wrote that the christian faith is the only religion where God is stated to be the one an donly God. all others have many gods maybe you should comapre the differences between the religions and see how the christian one stands out. you willnotice that throughout history those beliefs with multiple gods have died out or will die out soon while the christian belief outlasts them all.

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came up with ugly designs like a Tyrannosaurus, triceratops and the whole list of those weird-looking animals. You do believe the earth had those kinds of animals don't you?

skeletons are skeletons, the problem is that the evolutionist loses their credibility by stating that a new species has been discovered every time a new skeleton has been unearthed.  for all they know the skeletons they found coul dhave had ailments that disfigured their skeletal structure or made them dwarfs.  imagine if an evolutionist 1000 years from now dug up gary coleman's or websters skeleton and said they were a different race from normal humans.  then apply it to today where evolutionists do that very thing with the bones they dig up.  we know the truth but the future anthropologists would not.

do you see the problem here?

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While I will agree on that too can you point out to an evolutionist where the Bible produces proof of this:

why would you need the Bible to speak on this matter directly?  it is a matter of fact that they cannot produce the process of evolution and study it in a test tube and see what makes it tick or prove it actually exists or is responsible.  it is a response to the evolutionary argument that they 'cannot put God into a test tube'.  well they can't do it for their god either.

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You are claiming you have proof God did it? Evolutionists, in some cases, have a lot of faith things happened the way they say it did. And they have some kind of model to work with other than a ''magician.''

a magician does tricks and illusions tus God is not a 'magician' this label is misleading and wrong for God does not do tricks to entertain He created using His power and it is up to His creation to accept ro reject His word on this matter.  evolutionists have no model because they keep changing it and cannot prove their theory correct at any time.

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And it all comes down to the battle between religionists and evolutionists

no it comes down to what you will believe: right or wrong. the bible is right and evolution is wrong. if you want proof go to the different nurseries (human, animal, plant) and see gen. 1 in action but where will you go to see evolution in action? where are the changing species? oh wait...you can't live long enough to see the 'proof' so which makes more sense--the evidence you can see today if you want or the evidence you will never see?

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Translation: you don't require proof of anything when it comes to the Bible.

here is where you are making me say something i did not say. God requires us to use faith, it is part of the equation and you cannot escape it. you have to use faith to think that last week took place because i am sure you cannot produce unrefutable proof that it did.

we believers get evidencxe which shores up our faith but we will never get so much that it destroys  our faith.  it is by grace you are saved via faith because you have to believe it will take place when you decide, there is no evidence i can give you that will change the truth. i can point to changed lives but so can many adherents of false religions.

in the end you must use faith if you want to be saved,
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Dever is wrong, archaeology is not an unedited glimpse into the past.
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