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The Mycenaean Origin of Greek Mythology
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Topic: The Mycenaean Origin of Greek Mythology (Read 2987 times)
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Misty Allen
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Re: The Mycenaean Origin of Greek Mythology
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Reply #300
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April 19, 2010, 01:22:11 pm »
Minyans who were descendants of the Argonauts and from Lemnos were expelled to Laconia and from there to Triphylia. 14 His theories are in themselves of no value, being only attempts to explain the persistent tradition of Minyans in Triphylia. This tradition is corroborated by genealogies which seem not to be idle inventions, nor does it seem to be an idle tradition that the descendants of Neleus and the Pylians emigrated to Ionia. Since it is possible to treat this tradition fully only in connection with the problem of the Minyans, we shall recur to it in another chapter. 15 Here I add only the observation that it appears in the Pylian epos, of which fragments were incorporated into Homer, that the situation of the Pylians was precarious.
p. 87
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Misty Allen
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Re: The Mycenaean Origin of Greek Mythology
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April 19, 2010, 01:22:22 pm »
We have to consider what is left of this Pylian epos 16. Its contents are extremely little concerned with mythology, for its character is more historical, as is frequently the case with epics. Professor Robert thinks that even if the episodes in Homer are derived from an Ionian epos, the myths originally belonged to the Pylians whose natural foes were the Arcadians. 17 Professor Wilamowitz gives voice to another opinion. 18 He calls attention to the Pylian origin of the Colophonians and thinks that the Pylian epos originated in the town of Colophon in Asia Minor. In order to disprove its Pylian origin he proceeds to point to some geographical impossibilities and errors in the description of the war and the march of the troops, drawing the inference that the situation of Pylos was undetermined. The name Pylos, he thinks, designated, originally, the entrance of the Nether World, then the western part of the Peloponnese, and finally a certain locality but never a town.
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Misty Allen
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Re: The Mycenaean Origin of Greek Mythology
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April 19, 2010, 01:22:31 pm »
Certainly the Gate of the Underworld and Nestor's Pylos were mixed together in a myth to which we shall recur presently, but that does not prove that Nestor's Pylos was originally that Gate. That would be the same mythological point of view which once made Troy the castle East of the Sun and West of the Moon. Pylos appears in the epos as a
p. 88
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Misty Allen
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April 19, 2010, 01:22:37 pm »
real town, and the geographical inconsistencies are not good arguments, for as Professor Wilamowitz himself remarks, epics are always careless in regard to geography and distances; but it ought to be added that this carelessness does not disprove the real existence of the places and the original connections of the myths with them. It is unlikely that such inconsistencies prove that the epos originated among people who were ignorant of the actual geography of the places mentioned; blunders were sure to creep in during the repeated rehandling of the epics.
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Misty Allen
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April 19, 2010, 01:22:46 pm »
I cannot but think that the Pylian epos originated, as epics usually do, among people who were concerned with the events described, viz., among the Pylians themselves; that with them it came to Ionia, where parts were incorporated into the Iliad; and that its contents are historical traditions subjected to epical and mythical remodeling. At all events they are not mere fiction. 19
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Misty Allen
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April 19, 2010, 01:22:55 pm »
The story is remarkable that Heracles, evidently at the head of the Epeans or in their company, had dealt severe blows to the Pylians and killed eleven sons of Neleus, only the youngest one, Nestor, being left. 20 That is no glorious tradition and consequently we may believe that it has some real foundation; viz., that the Pylians had been very severely dealt with by their foes in Elis. The story must, however, be compared with another often
p. 89
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Misty Allen
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April 19, 2010, 01:23:03 pm »
quoted episode; viz., that Heracles wounded Hades, fighting with him at Pylos among the Dead. 21 It is justly recognized, and we shall have more to say of it when we come to Heracles, 22 that this Pylos is the Gate of the Underworld and that the myth is an old form of Heracles' victory over Death. Because of the resemblance of the names it was applied to the city of Pylos and thus Heracles became the foe of the Pylians. It is the oldest of his Deeds and the starting point for these, and has perhaps given rise to the idea that Heracles was a leader and a hero of the Dorians.
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Misty Allen
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Re: The Mycenaean Origin of Greek Mythology
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April 19, 2010, 01:23:13 pm »
The Pylian epos which, in fact, glorified the last struggles of the old Viking empire against the invaders was certainly not conceived in a foreign country by people to whom the Pylians were mythical figures only. To quote Professor Robert, its mythical contents are extraordinarily small. But even if Professor Wilamowitz' view is accepted, the fact remains that epical traditions of a certain richness cling to the western coast of the Peloponnese and that the same tract is the only one on this side of the peninsula which is comparatively rich in Mycenaean remains. The traditions may be more historical than mythical; if so, their value is the same or still greater for our purpose. For the traditions here treated are such as are handled by epics. Epical traditions and Mycenaean remains cover the same district.
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Misty Allen
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Re: The Mycenaean Origin of Greek Mythology
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April 19, 2010, 01:23:22 pm »
Footnotes
79:1 For the latest discussion see N. Valmin, Études topographiques sur la Messénie ancienne (Dissertation, Lund 1930), pp. 5 et seq.
80:2 Another very remarkable fact is that no Geometric ceramics are found in Messenia.
80:3 Excavated by Professor Kourouniotes, see Ephemeris archaiologike, 1914, p. 99 et seq.; cp. Bulletin de correspondence hellénique, L (1926), pp. 552 et seq. The tombs must be dated to LH III, not with Kourouniotes to LH II.
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Misty Allen
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Re: The Mycenaean Origin of Greek Mythology
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April 19, 2010, 01:23:31 pm »
81:4 Athen. Mittheilungen, XXXIII (1908), p. 321.
81:5 See his dissertation quoted n. 1, pp. 103 and 112 et seq. and his papers, "Two Tholos Tombs at Bodia in Eastern Triphylia," Bulletin of the R. Society of Letters of Lund, 1926-27, pp. 53 et seq.; also his "Continued Explorations in Eastern Triphylia," ibid., 1927-28, pp. 171 et seq.
83:6 Od. iii. vv. 447 et seq.; the journey back, xv. vv. 182 et seq.
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Misty Allen
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April 19, 2010, 01:23:45 pm »
83:7 Il. xi. vv. 670 et seq.
83:8 Il. xxiii. v. 630.
83:9 Il. vii. v. 133.
84:10 Il. xi. vv. 291 et seq.
84:11 The last discussion in Valmin's dissertation, pp. 206 et seq.
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Misty Allen
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April 19, 2010, 01:23:54 pm »
85:12 N. Gardiner, Olympia, p.35, believes that the invaders came overland from Argolis, because Kakovatos is harborless; but he remarks, p. 38, that nowhere else has such a quantity of amber been found as was found here, and sees herein an unmistakable evidence of a trade route from the head of the Adriatic. The two statements seem to contradict each other somewhat, but I should be more inclined to agree with the latter. The best harbor in an early age is a fine sand shore on which the ships can be drawn up, such as exists at the "sandy" Pylos.
86:13 Il. xi. v. 722.
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Misty Allen
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Re: The Mycenaean Origin of Greek Mythology
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April 19, 2010, 01:24:06 pm »
86:14 Strabo, viii. p. 347.
86:15 Below pp. 143 et seq.
87:16 A. Lörcher, Wie, wo, wann ist die Ilias entstanden? (1920), attributes great importance to the many passages concerning Nestor and gives the title "Die Nestoris" to one of his chapters. But the inference that this preference given to Nestor and the Pylians came about because the Iliad was conceived at Olympia at the games is very unlikely.
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Misty Allen
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April 19, 2010, 01:24:14 pm »
87:17 C. Robert, Die griech. Heldensage, p. 191.
87:18 Wilamowitz, Die Ilias and Homer (1916), pp. 207 et seq.
88:19 It is not to be wondered at that the Pylians are called Achaeans, for they were pre-Dorians, or that their foes are called both Epeans and Eleans; Epeans is the name of a tribe, Elis of a province (Ἦλις Lat. vallis, ϝαλις, ϝαλειοι are the native forms); i.e., a local name from which that of the inhabitants was derived.
88:20 Il. xi. vv. 689 et seq.
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Misty Allen
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April 19, 2010, 01:24:37 pm »
89:21 Il. v. vv. 395 et seq.
89:22 Below pp. 203 et seq. For the evidence see E. Drerup, Das fünfte Buch der Ilias (1913), p. 180 et seq.
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