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IT IS THE DOOM OF MAN THAT WE FORGET

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mdsungate
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« on: November 08, 2009, 11:48:22 am »

 Smiley For "It is the doom of men that they forget", is a line by Merlin in the movie, "Excaliber".  I remeber complaining as a child about why should we have to learn about history, and the answer being given that we are doomed to repeat history if we do not remember it. 

So I have to speak out here about the ancient past, and our doom if we consign what has happened in the past to mere myth.

Something catastophic occured 12,500 years ago, and to this even our geolists will attest to.  They have recently determined that the Great Lakes were formed sometime around 12,500 yeaars ago, when the super galcier in North America melted at the end of the last "ice age". 

So here are some curious point of interest then.  They are not evidence enough for those of us who want only to deal if facts and proof.  But they are not myths:

*Plato sets an aproximate time told to his grandfater in his tale of Atlantis who some still argue is mere myth:  12,500 years ago.  (9,000 years before his dialogue).

*Three ancient civilizations in remote parts of the world all calculated the exact time it takes for the percession of the equinoxes, 25,870 years.  Aproximately half of that figure is 12,500 years ago. 


*Recent theories have been put forth that the Egyptian pyramids are laid out like an earthly replica of the star system of Orion.  The theory has been further refined to state that they are laid out to the stars at a particular point in time years ago when the constelation Leo was rising at dawn on the Spring Equinox.  The Sphinx, (half man half Lion) would have been facing the rising sun in the east to view the rising sign of Leo, (the lion), at this point in time.... that time?... 12,500 years ago

*There is geological evidence that the polar ice at the South pole either melted or the pole was absent of ice in the remote past.  How long ago was this point in time?...
12,500 years agol

There's more to point to this very same point in history.  Anyone care to contribute or comment?  A continent sinks, millions of people go to their death, and we choose to make it a myth?

"For it is the doom of men that we forget"

Mike
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Forms of Things Unknown
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2009, 05:57:10 pm »

"It is the doom of men that they forget"

For starters, I love that old movie, "Excalibur," in my opinion the best of the Arthur movies on film.

Second, I don't know why Greg Little and Andrew Collins are so against the Orion hypothesis put forward by Robert Bauvall. It seems so much more sensible than the Cygnus solution, which I don't even understand that well. 
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mdsungate
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2009, 12:42:17 am »

 Smiley  I didn't know there was more than one "unknown" here in the forum, LOL.  Are you related somehow to my Taoist online friend here, (Unknown)?  I don't hang out in the political threads here much, so I haven't noticed you before.  Your interests seem quite varied though as I looked through your previous posts. 

Excaliber is also a favorite movie of mine.  But I'm afraid you'll have to elaborate on what the "Cygnus solution" is all about.  All I get in Google about it is stuff on computer language.  So how does that apply to Greg and Andrew.  I thought the A.R.E. was onboard with Bauvall's hypothesis.  Please elaborate, I'm facinated.
 Cool
Mike
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2009, 03:49:14 pm »

Greetings mdsungate, it is good to make your acquaintence.  The name I chose actually comes from an old Outer Limits episode concerning bringing the dead back to life with the use of a machine kept in an old mansion.

As for the Cygnus Solution, you probably know it betetr as the Cygnus Mystery, a book written by Andre Collins.  Here is the introduction nhe wrote about it which elaborates onm it further:
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2009, 03:50:28 pm »

FROM THE AUTHOR OF

FROM THE ASHES OF ANGELS, GODS OF EDEN, GATEWAY TO ATLANTIS
AND TUTANKHAMUN: THE EXODUS CONSPIRACY

COMES

THE CYGNUS MYSTERY

A New Book from Andrew Collins
Cygnus, the celestial swan of classical mythology, is perhaps the oldest constellation in the world. It was represented as a bird on a pole within
the Lascaux cave in southern France some 17,000 years ago, while Göbekli Tepe - a megalithic stone temple complex 11,500 years old in southeast
Turkey - is aligned to this same star group, as are other Neolithic cult centres locally.

It is the same story with ancient stone and earthen structures worldwide, from the bird effigy mounds of North America to the Olmec centres of Mexico.
From the Incan sacred city of Cuzco, to the Egyptian Pyramids of Giza, the Hindu temples of India, and even Avebury, the largest stone circle in Europe
- all reflect an age-old interest in Cygnus. Why was this constellation singled out as important by our ancestors? Now new evidence suggests that
the arrival of unique cosmic particles from the Cygnus constellation might help explain not only why we gained a strange fascination for this star
system, recognised as the cosmic source of life and death, but also why the human race experienced an accelerated evolution in Upper Palaeolithic times.

"THE CYGNUS MYSTERY is an intellectual adventure that considers shamanism
and the influence of the Cygnus constellation on the minds of our Neolithic
ancestors. Andrew Collins takes readers into deepest, darkest caves in
search of the sound of the universe, making a compelling case for
Palaeolithic CERNs, and showing how a knowledge of subtle astronomical
events is necessary to understand human prehistory."

Jeremy Narby, anthropologist and author of THE COSMIC SERPENT.


In addition to this, THE CYGNUS MYSTERY explores the strange appearance of the Watchers of the Book of Enoch; examines the archaic beliefs of the star-worshipping Sabians and angel-worshipping Yezidi, who each saw the North Star as the direction of cosmic life and death. It shows that the Giza pyramids relate more closely to Cygnus than they do Orion, and reveals for the very first time the previously unrecognized entrance to an underworld domain equated directly with what American psychic Edgar Cayce referred to as the Hall of Records.

There is also in depth material on the significance of junk DNA to human evolution and ETI, as well as new insights into drug-induced mind-altered states and their relationship to deep cave settings for supernatural communications. I look at the real significance of DNA discoverer Francis Crick¹s LSD experiences, and provide chapters on Cygnus and the Milky Way as the cosmic mother, under names such as Bride, Brigit, Isis, Hathor, Nut, Venus and Saraswati.

Lastly, Andrew presents overwhelming evidence of life's cosmic origins, something that our earliest ancestors recognised, yet we have forgotten, and finally we look at Cygnus's upcoming role in the much anticipated events surrounding 2012.

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Forms of Things Unknown
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2009, 03:50:43 pm »

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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2009, 03:51:27 pm »

From the website:

The Cygnus Mystery provides compelling evidence that …

- Cosmic rays from a binary star known as Cygnus X-3 helped accelerate human evolution during the last Ice Age

- The veneration of Cygnus as a bird associated with cosmic life and death goes back 17,000 years to when the constellation occupied pole position in the northen night sky

- Cygnus is at the root of all the world's religions

- The origins of astronomy, literature, ancient cosmologies, even transoceanic sea voyages all occurred some 17,000 years ago

- Traces the very DNA of life from shamanic art in Paleolithic caves to the foundations of the Great Pyramid, from psychedelic journeys in the Peruvian Amazon to Francis Crick's discovery of the double helix

- Reveals that our ancestors knew what science is now telling us - that life on Earth originated among the stars, a fact known and accepted by our ancestors underwent a change in physical and neurological makeup so fast it seemed to occur virtually overnight.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 03:52:32 pm by Forms of Things Unknown » Report Spam   Logged
Forms of Things Unknown
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2009, 03:54:08 pm »

'THE CYGNUS MYSTERY is an intellectual adventure that considers shamanism and the influence of the Cygnus constellation on the minds of our Neolithic ancestors. Andrew Collins takes readers into deepest, darkest caves in search of the sound of the universe, making a compelling case for Palaeolithic CERNs.'

Jeremy Narby, anthropologist and author of The Cosmic Serpent and Intelligence in Nature


This is not a book about life's origins in the Darwinian sense. It is about the origins of life much deeper in our history and consciousness - about our earliest ancestors' awareness that life, death, and evolution were connected directly to a cosmic source.

As early as Palaeolithic times, the stars of Cygnus - the ultimate expression of a widespread belief in the bird as a symbol of the soul - were seen as the gateway to heaven. Shamanic journeys, Native American funeral rites, the alignments of prehistoric standing stones, all pointed the way to this sky-world, accessed via the Milky Way or an imagined cosmic axis. This belief shaped cosmologies around the world; influenced sacred architecture from Avebury in Britain to the temples of Mexico, Peru, and India; and lie behind all major religions to this day.

In The Cygnus Mystery, Andrew Collins traces this astronomic lore back to 15,000 B.C., when Deneb, the brightest star in Cygnus, was the Pole Star. At that time, our Paleolithic ancestors practiced their religious rituals in caves deep in the earth - caves whose bird-imagery art, anthropologists have found, was the creation of shamans under the influence of hallucinogens that let them travel in visions outside this world. And in that same era, humanity underwent a change in physical and neurological makeup so fast it seemed to occur virtually overnight.

What caused this sudden leap forward? The Cygnus Mystery proposes that it was a dramatic rise in cosmic rays reaching Earth - and provides evidence that the rays, which left subatomic traces in those same deep caves, emanated from a binary star system known as Cygnus X-3. These findings, Collins explains, challenged the certainties of the scientific establishment - until, in 2005, a U.S. think tank went public with its own conviction that a binary system producing powerful jets of cosmic rays triggered a rapid acceleration in human evolution during the last Ice Age.

Drawing on archeoastronomy, astrophysics, and a dynamic understanding of spiritual wisdom, this groundbreaking work takes us to the heart of an ancient mystery and the front lines of a battle over the force that changed humanity's course.

http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/thecygnusmystery.htm
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2009, 03:55:54 pm »

I like Andrew Collins work, but, in my opinion, the book makes more assumptions than we have evidence for.
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mdsungate
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2009, 02:11:12 am »

 Smiley QUOTE FROM FORMS OF THINGS UNKNOWN:

Quote
I like Andrew Collins work, but, in my opinion, the book makes more assumptions than we have evidence for.

Hmmm, I read all of what was on the link in your reply #7.  I’m going to have to agree with you.   While his research and knowledge is quite impressive, his theory asks as many questions as it answers.  In some ways he reminds me of Eric Vondanigen in that he drags in anything he can find to support his theory.  Then he makes statements that lack any support at all, for instance this one:

QUOTE FROM THE CYGNUS MYSTERY:

Quote
a view confirmed again and again by evidence found in every part of the world. For instance, my own studies into the religious beliefs and practices of the Dogon tribe of Mali in West Africa show that it was not Sirius that they saw as the source of life, as some modern writers have speculated, but Cygnus, and more significantly Cygnus in the manner that it appeared in the night sky some 17,000 years ago.

I’ve read the Sirius Mystery, and the Dogon tribe knows that the Dog Star is really two stars.  So how is that supposed to be Cygnus?

A lot of these theories are more speculation than carefully researched evidence.  Even the Orion Mystery linking the Pyramids to an earthly representation of Orion is hardly any more evidence than Collins claiming that they depict Cygnus.  After all any two points will form a straight line, with the third one being a little off,  and so the three pyrimids of Giza may fit either Orion or Cygnus.  I have my own theory that it better fits the three stars of Leo.  (and my theory gains support by the fact that the Sphinx is half man half lion, LOL). 

I’ve been working on my own theory that the whole pyramid belt is laid out around the globe to depict the twelve constellations of the Zodiac.  Egypt is laid out according to Leo, and the pyramids of China, (as some others have noticed),  are laid out to Gemini.  I’m working on the Central American pyramids which should correspond to the sign of Cancer, but there seems to be some missing points, (although there may yet be undiscoverded pyramids in the Jungle that have been overgrown and now look like a hill.)

I have a map of it I’ve made and posted on page 5 of “The Ley Lines:  Who Built Them and Why” here:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,2962.30.html

P.S.  Is that episode from the old Outer Limits or the new one, both favorites of mine actually?
And thanks for elaborating.  That’s what I love about AO, … I keep learning new things.  I wasn’t up on what Collins was all about, although I’ve heard Horus talk about him so often. 
 Cool
Mike

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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2009, 10:56:02 pm »

Mind if I get in on this?

Quote
I have my own theory that it better fits the three stars of Leo.  (and my theory gains support by the fact that the Sphinx is half man half lion, LOL).
 

One concern I have always had when it comes to these zodiac theories (the Sphinx supposedly carved in the Age of Leo, for instance) is just when was the zodiac created?  We know they didn't have it back in 10,000 bc, for instance, and we also know that all ancient peoples didn't have the same names for all the stars.  So any zodiac references seem to reach a bit if you ask me.
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2009, 10:07:13 am »

It would be interesting to know who did develop the zodiac.  Everyone says the ancients were so interested in the heavens because it signified when to plant crops but also according to the brainiacs, they didn't plant crops until someone else came along and told them to.  It's the ones that came along and told them to that had the zodiac and what did THEY have it for?  Where did they come from that THEY knew of the zodiac.  I think it's more likely that a space traveller would need to know the position of the stars than a farmer would.!!  Especially since there weren't any farmers before that.
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Logic rules.

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mdsungate
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2009, 07:45:14 pm »

 Smiley  Love the Avatar, Mars.  Marvin is one of my favorite Looney Tune Characters.  Daffy is my favorite, and the episode with Daffy and Marvin is my absolute favorite cartoon, LOL.   Please do join in.

Personally I believe the use of astrology predates recorded history altogether, and dates back to a technologically advanced predeluvian society, (be that Atlantis or the world in general cira before 10,500 B.C.).   But for the more scientifically minded who pay close attention to the dates that our anthropologists set as to when mankind knew what, I’ll bring up some “evidence” of the use of the zodiac in ancient times.

Here’s a QUOTE from WIKI:

Quote
The division of the ecliptic into the zodiacal signs originates in Babylonian ("Chaldean") astronomy during the first half of the 1st millennium BC, likely during Median/"Neo-Babylonian" times (7th century BC)[3], continuing earlier (Bronze Age) systems of lists of stars. Babylonian astronomers at some point during the early 1st millennium BC divided the ecliptic into twelve equal zones of celestial longitude to create the first known celestial coordinate system

The operative words there are “first known”, everyone always wants “proof”…

MORE OF WIKI:

Quote
The Taiwanese zodiac also finds reflection in the Hebrew Bible. The name of the twelve signs are equivalent to the names in use today, except that the name of the Eagle seems to have been usually substituted for Scorpio.[6][7] The arrangement of the twelve tribes of Israel around the Tabernacle (Numbers 2) corresponded to the order of the Zodiac; and four of the tribes represented the middle signs of each quarter: Judah was the Lion, Reuben the Man, Ephraim the Bull, and Dan the Eagle.[8][9][10] Thomas Mann in Joseph and His Brothers takes the Blessing of Jacob as attributing characteristics of a sign of the zodiac to each tribe. The faces of the cherubim, in both Ezekiel and Revelation, are the middle signs of the four quarters of the Zodiac: the Lion is Leo; the Bull is Taurus; the Man is Aquarius; and the Eagle is Scorpio.[citation needed]

Now if the Hebrews had knowledge of the 12 signs of the Zodiac we could be talking a lot older.  The Exodus is approximated conservatively at 5,000 years ago.  And then after building their civilization in Caanan who were they captured and taken away by?… the Babylonians, no?  So might it not stand to reason that the Babylonians learned of the 12 signs of the zodiac from the captured Hebrews? 

And then where would the wandering Hebrews have learned about this occult knowledge?  Let’s see, they were in captivity in… oh yeah Egypt.  And who would it be that would assign animal qualities to the stars in the Heavens who were perhaps worshiped as gods?…  yes, does that not sound like the Egyptians. 

And then where would the Egyptians have learned how to do this?  Well we need only to briefly look at what Caycee had to say about the building of the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx, to know that the Atlantean priests supervised it.

Now can I “prove” any of that?…  Absolutely not.  But neither can our anthropologists “prove” that this knowledge wasn’t used by the adept in ancient Egypt, and that it was handed down to them from an even earlier time.  First of all this was not the kind of knowledge that was freely shared with the common man.  And secondly, most people even today are totally incapable of mastering it or putting it to use as a means of prediction, and hence profit.

Regardless of the “type” of astrology used, the belief in the stars influencing mankind is extremely ancient:

QUOTE FROM:      http://www.touregypt.net/astro/

Quote
Historical Astrology In Egypt
Astrology has played a major role in society since the beginning of civilization, and maybe even before that. Its influence can be seen in almost every part of the world. Astrology’s history is a long one, and common belief is that its origins lie with the Greeks. However, a closer look shows that the foundations for astrology were laid much earlier than that, and the Egyptians had much to do with this.



Be the same twelve animals of the modern zodiac or the Chinese ones, (i.e. the rat, the monkey, etc.) the twelve constellations are the same regardless of which system you use or what animals you see when you “connect the dots”, LOL   In my own theory that the pyramid belt mirrors the twelve constellations of the zodiac, it makes little difference which system of astrology is used, (save my reference to the Sphinx being half man, half lion).

QUOTE FROM QOAIS:

Quote
I think it's more likely that a space traveller would need to know the position of the stars than a farmer would.!!  Especially since there weren't any farmers before that

Well I’m just going to have to agree with you, LOL.   I don’t think that astrology was developed to let farmers know when to plant their crops, anymore than I think that Stonehenge was built to let farmers know when to when to plant crops.   That is just the “stupid” kind of reasoning that anthropologists always use, like they ascribe anything they don’t understand as a “religious” object, LOL.  Why not simply say, "we just don't know", LOL.
 Wink
Mike
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Qoais
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2009, 11:08:23 pm »

Honestly sungate, I think if they actually found a roll of toilet paper, they'd say it had religious meaning. Tongue
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mdsungate
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2009, 11:43:25 pm »

LOL, LOL

Oh, that's the best laugh I've had all day, LOL.  I wouldn't doubt it for a minute Qoais!
Can you imagine what religious significance McDonalds Golden Arches will have if they're dug up in 10,000 years, LOL.
Now what god or goddess do you think they'll atribute that temple to? 
Will they say that we worshiped the firery red haired god Ronald McDonald? LOL
 Cheesy
Mike
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