ATLANTIS airs Oct 7th on History Channel

[Robert0326]

It's cool Sungate.  I'm sure there is a threat about Atlantis being in Antarctica.  I'll look through them and start posting.  Feel free to comment on my future post on the subject if your interested.

[mdsungate]

   QUOTE FROM ROBERT0326:

Feel free to comment on my future post on the subject if your interested.

I’m actually quite interested in Antarctica.  Though I’m not inclined to believe that it is the location of the fabled Atlantis, I do believe that there was a time in the remote past that it was free of ice and supported a thriving civilization, perhaps even a technologically advance people.   

I am not a proponent of either “ice ages” or of “global warming” due to carbon emissions.  I say that because the evidence, (and I mean ALL of the evidence), does not support either of those theories.  Our science instead picks and chooses which pieces of evidence to use to support the accepted academic theories and tries to ram it down our throats. 

But I AM a proponent of the theory of “pole shift” which even now our science is beginning to take a more serious look at.  Previously the idea of the “poles” shifting was considered utter nonsense.  But now in the advent of the currently “accepted” tectonic plate theory, the idea has reemerged in the notion that only the crust of the earth “slips” over the molten sea of magma that surrounds the core, and thus place on the surface of the earth where the poles reside now “shifts” and not the actual poles, which are considered fixed in orbit and impossible to move.  To me this is a nute point, either way the evidence points that in a mater of moments Bison in Siberia chewing on buttercups in a tropical locale, found themselves so near the North Pole that they were flash frozen.   

  The evidence is all over the globe.  The poles have shifted several time in history, and not just the magnetic poles,.. but the actual poles.  So I believe that Anartica was once actually in a tropical location on the globe, and the evidence of the civilization that flourished there is now buried under tons of ice waiting for us to discover it… or waiting for the next Pole shift to thaw it out, LOL.

Send me a personal message as to where you post in this maze of threads that AO has become in the last two years, LOL.  Or I’ll just look for where you’ve posted last. 

Mike

[nikas]

Ok I have finally found the Mystery quest episode of Atlantis:

http://mysteryquestonline.blogspot.com/

Scroll down till you see the episode.
I was really..Really disappointed. This was pure garbage. At least other times they will have few theories that compete between them and they show the pros and the cons of those hypothesis. Here, there is only Greg little looking at pure geological formations and making amateur statements.

[Robert0326]

Well that's what happens when you listen to the ramblings of a psychic.  You end up looking really really bad.

[nikas]

Well that's what happens when you listen to the ramblings of a psychic.  You end up looking really really bad.

I think you're being modest here Robert...they looked worst, they looked embarrassing. With all due respect to Greg they’re wasting their time. They’re so amateur on the subject of Archeology…let alone Geology and they’re making some disturbing statements. I would rather choose the yonaguni rocks in Japan rather than Biminis road. They’re so disillusioned by their believes and they’re seeing corners everywhere.

When you undertake an expedition of this type you have to have a geologist and an archeologist on board. It is rather true (unfortunately) that mainstream archeology will dismiss anything that has to do with Atlantis but that doesn’t mean we have to dismiss their opinions. They’re experts on reviewing artifacts and we're not.

So Greg; are you telling me that if there was any indication of man-made structures they will ignore it? I am pretty sure that few of them must have examined the area and concluded that it is nothing more than natural formation. So who are you to question their expertise? Think about it Greg.

Oh Robert, in case you don't know, Greg belongs to Casey's organiazation and is somehow cofounded by them.

[Desiree]

Well, I have to disagree with your observations, Nikas.  First off, Greg not be a trained archaeologist, but who is?  Very few people actually investigating Atlantis are credentialed academics. Point is, he does work with a geologist (Bill Donato) and he does send samples out to labs to get tested. He has done carbon 14 dating, sub-bottom profiling of Bimini, and has done more dives in that area than anyone looking for Atlantis in history.  He is one of the few "Atlantologists" actually doing field work in the Atlantic, and that alone gives him credit. I don't put much stock in "experts" opinion.  Believe it or not, only one trained geologist has ever really looked at Bimini up close, Eugene Shinn, and he has an honorary degree, he didn't really earn it (see Greg's paper, the "Bimini Hoax"). The rest are simply commenting on Shin's observations.

The formations he is looking at are made of beach rock, but that doesn't mean anything.  The Phoenicians built their ancient harbors from beachrock, too, in fact, most ancient harbors are made from beachrock. And those stones he has been bringing up with the boreholes in them are identical to those used as stone anchors by ancient Phoenician mariners.  The fact that the stone blocks on the road itself are sometime stacked atop isn't conclusive that they were worked, but it is a good indication.

Greg has never come out and said, "I found Atlantis."  Even in that email that Bianca sent out (quoting him), he is simply stating that (from the water level the stones have been found in), they date to 10,000 bc, the era of Atlantis, not that they were Atlantis itself.

I believe that the Bimini Road and the Andros Platoform have been dated by Greg to only about 5,000 bc, which he doesn't consider to be Atlantis, cause it is from a more recent era.  His claim actually is that he has found an ancient maritme culture that existed in the Bahamas in prehistory, maybe not Atlantis (unless Plato has his dates wrong), but something similar.

Oh, and he doesn't just get his direction from Edgar Cayce, he is pretty well versed on Plato, too. In fact, he has investigated just about every claim that has been made of finding Atlantis in the Atlantic of the last forty years, and sorted out which ones have merit, and which ones don't.
I do agree with you that the special was a bit lame, but that is what you get if you only look at Bimini and Santorini. There are lots of places that I have seen that are totally ignored by these docs that are just as good candidates:  Azores, Canary Islands, Antarctica, Cuba, Morocco, South America.

Finally, one last thing about the bad footage, if we ever did find Atlantis beneath the sea, we should ask, how would we expect it to look like?  It wouldn't be pristine underwater temples, like Jules Verne.  You'd actually see a lot of straight formations with corals, barnacles and other sea crud attached to them, sort of like we are seeing now in the underwater footage. You wouldn't find a temple, for instance, you’d find a collapsed temple, especially if (as Plato says) it was destroyed by an earthquake.

[Desiree]

Oh Robert, in case you don't know, Greg belongs to Casey's organiazation and is somehow cofounded by them.

Actually, Greg has only been with the A.R.E. Association for about ten years, they have been around wayyyyy longer than that, so no, he did not co-found them.

[Qoais]

Hi Desiree,
I think Nikas means that the Edgar Cayce Foundation pays for Greg to do the dives.  Although Nikas' English is improving, it still needs a bit of work

[Chronos]

Not to intrude, but I believe one of the first conversations we had with Greg back when he began posting a few years ago (at AR, and then here) was about the funding.  Erick Wright claimed someone else was funding him, too.

Greg is self-funded. I imagine the A.R.E. Association picks up the tab for some of the equipment, but he also makes money by selling his documentaries, books and as a criminal psychologist.

[mdsungate]

   Well I’ve already stated earlier in this thread that I actually fell asleep in the part of the show on the Minoan/Santorini theme which is boring beyond senselessness to me at this point.  But Greg was the most interesting part of the show and is out there doing what I could only dream about doing… actually looking for Atlantis.  But I don’t need to defend him, as Desiree has already done a much better job at that than I could have.

QUOTE FROM NIKAS:

Here, there is only Greg little looking at pure geological formations and making amateur statements.

Well I can’t agree with that statement, Nikas.  I’ve been looking at the pictures of that particular geological evidence for for a couple of decades now, and if that’s a geological formation, than mother nature must also have sculpted Machu Picchu.  And here I should call in Qoais for some support, as we’ve been bouncing around the theory that the megalithic stone works, inclulding the Great Pyramid, are actually not stone carvings but made with a process that softened rock and turned it into a type of cement, which later was almost indistinguishable from natural stone.   

If that theory is correct than it may well be that the Bimini Road or Wall as it were, was probably produced using the same ancient technological process.  This is why you can’t even fit a razor blade between the stones at Machu Picchu, because they weren’t carved, they were poured.  The stones at the Great Pyramid are not recognized by geologists as anything but natural today.  So for any trained geologist to determine that the stones of the Bimini Wall are a natural geological formation is premature to say the least.  The stones need to be brought up and chemical analysis has to be done on them to determine that, and as yet no one has done so. 

QUOTE FROM ROBERTO326: 

Well that's what happens when you listen to the ramblings of a psychic.

Oh Robert, you really need to read up on this guy.   To compare Cayce to a mere physic is like calling the Pope a bible salesmen, LOL.  He was no Tarot Card reader.  In fact he hated having to go into the trances he was subject to.  If it weren’t for the fact that he had doctors from all over the world contacting him for help with patients that were hopeless medical cases, and him prescribing hundreds of cures, and healing countless people, than nobody would have paid a bit of attention to what he had to say about Atlantis. 

QUOTE FROM DESIREE: 

Very few people actually investigating Atlantis are credentialed academics.

Well that’s because no accredited academic is going to risk his reputation on investigating a subject that is practically scientific heresy.  Let’s face it if a distinguished scientist was abducted by a UFO he would have to turn himself in for psychiatric observation and believe that he was having a nervous breakdown, rather than risk his reputation on what he knew had happened.  Certain subjects are simply off limits to serious investigation in the scientific community and Atlantis is one of them.  I think we all owe a debt of gratitude to Greg Little for putting Atlantis into the spotlight and out of the shadows.

QUOTE FROM CHRONOS:

Not to intrude, but…

Don’t let what happened with Bianca put you off.  The Mod’s are people too, LOL.  Your opinions and comments are always as welcome here as anyone’s.  Personally when I compare this to AR, you guys do a pretty darn good job. 

We all have our various opinions. Nikas believes that Atlantis is in Malta, and that Greg is foolishly looking in the wrong place.  Robert suspects that Atlantis is in Antarctica.  Qoais too believes that the real location must be in the Mediterranean, and I think that Greg is looking at things that must have once been mountaintops in Atlantis, which in my opinion lays fathoms deeper on the Mid Atlantic Plateau.  But look at us all having a civil conversation in the best place on the web to talk about what must be a race memory in all of us.   

The show did suck.  But it beat the hell out of Ice Road Truckers or Pawn Stars.  If that’s the best the History Channel can offer, than give me more of Greg.  I think Greg mentioned something about National Geographic.  Hopefully they can do a better job.  After all it wasn’t Greg who produced the show. 
 
Mike

[nikas]

Well Desire, if he is not an academic on the subject then shouldn’t he listen to the real Geologists who tell him that those are natural formation, rather than trying to explain them himself? If that thing was build by humans wouldn’t there be something HUMAN, pottery, columns..e.t.c

Look at pavlopetry in Greece. Full of pottery. Do you see geologists dismiss it as natural formation? Look at that lake somewhere in Mesoamerica full of pottery and I think human bones.

There is not a single artifact in Biminis that indicates a human presence, let alone Atlantis.
You said that Greg never “yelled” Atlantis. That’s not true; he always states that he is sure that the road was build by atlanteans and on this particular show towards the end he states; “If we find evidence of building ruins will definitely be proof of Atlantis”

An underwater human presence does not constitute Atlantis for sure. As for the carbon dating, you’re wrong; there have been many carbon dating around that area and we had various results. One carbon dating near the coast showed the date to be around 2,000 years old, the one that Greg carbon dated it was around 2-3 thousand years old. A definite proof that these beach rocks are forming continuously and as you go deeper into the sea they tend to be older.

As for the “cofounded” I meant “cofunding”. As Qoais and Chronos explained. And is not really my English rather me being lazy  to spell-check my words and let the WORD do the job. 
Oh cmon, give me a break got too much in my mind…you want me to find Atlantis or to do spell-check…

Well mdsungate, it’s true that Greg is doing what he wants to do (he really works hard on it!) but he is doing it at the wrong place. The problem with people like Greg is that they believe at a particular theory, spent time and money to the brick of bankruptcy (remember Bob Sarmast?) and they feel embarrassed to back up. I am pretty sure that Greg’s family and friends are making fun at them. So they tend to cross over to irrational thinking where there is no coming back. Even if someone finds Atlantis anywhere else but Biminis they will never accept that and will continue to search for it.

NIKAS:
Here, there is only Greg little looking at pure geological formations and making amateur statements.

mdsungate:
Well I can’t agree with that statement, Nikas.  I’ve been looking at the pictures of that particular geological evidence for for a couple of decades now, and if that’s a geological formation, than Mother Nature must also have sculpted Machu Picchu.

You can’t compare machu pichu with what Greg is showing us. That’s man-made building or temple or pyramid. What Greg is showing us is nothing. You have to understand something; “wherever people go…they leave behind a mess” in terms of Pottery and stuff. Machu Pichu is full of that. Greg has found nothing. Look at Yonaguni. Perfect corners perfect lines, still a natural formation. Proven by Dr. Robert M. Schoch (An open minded academic that has proven that the sphinx is older than anticipated)
As for casy’s case (?) I don’t have to read anything about it. Just the Atlantis prophecy and I am done with him. Stating that Atlantis was an advance civilization in the middle of the Atlantic with crystals and flying ships…how reliable can he be on that.


P.S As for working with Plato  ….Greg has no idea of his work. There is not a single clue from Plato’s work that fits his theory!!!!

[Qoais]

What did happen to Sarmast Nikas, do you know?

Oh yeah - I don't think there was a Plato's Atlantis out in the Atlantic ocean.  Nor in the Med.  but that the inspiration for the story came from Mauritania, land of Atlas. 

You see - old people have a tendency to hang on to what THEY learned when young.  Take for instance the part telephone line.  Any of you old enough to know what that was?   It just means there was more than one customer on the same "line" - it was shared with several clients.  Telephones originally had a crank on the side, that you turned to contact the operator and she then put you through to whoever you were trying to reach.  Only she wasn't called "operator' back then.  When you turned the crank you were connected to "Central",so when someone answered you confirmed by asking "Central?"  Then the operator would say yes, how may I help you.  To the day he died, my uncle on the farm would always ask "Central?" when the operator picked up. 

In Plato's youth, Spain and N.W. Africa were thought to be islands.  When he told the story, he was still seeing them as islands in his minds eye, although by that time, I'm sure he had knowledge of the lay of the land at the western end of the Med.  I now understand in my early "golden years" how it is that we remember best what we learned when we were young.  It's another one of those things I'm going to take up with God when I get home.  Why is it we have to struggle to keep learning all our lives, and then when we get old enough to retire to enjoy the knowledge we gained, we forget it?

[Desiree]

Well Desire, if he is not an academic on the subject then shouldn’t he listen to the real Geologists who tell him that those are natural formation, rather than trying to explain them himself?

I just told you that no real geologists have ever looked at it up close, and that the one who did (Eugene Shinn) has only an honorary degree. Did you just choose to ignore that or do you automatically take the word of anyone who tells you they are an "'expert?" 

Get down to that, and shucks, you may as well give up on Atlantis altogether.  Even the guys who have degrees are wrong about a lot of stuff. Most still hold onto the Pre-Clovis dating of settlements of the Americas even though there have been literally hundreds of find showing their dating is wrong.

 

If that thing was build by humans wouldn’t there be something HUMAN, pottery, columns..e.t.c

Columns and things have been found there.  Pottery hasn't been found, but that is because they are in the area that has the most hurricanes.  It sweeps the area clean everytime a hurricane comes in, which has happened thousands of times over since prehistory.

There is not a single artifact in Biminis that indicates a human presence, let alone Atlantis.

Stone columns, stone slabs and stone anchors.  Again, he isn't saying it is Atlantis, just a maritme culture from prehistory.

You said that Greg never “yelled” Atlantis. That’s not true; he always states that he is sure that the road was build by atlanteans

I have been corresponding with him for three years, and he has never once made that sort of declarative statement.  If you got that from TV, you have to allow for some editing, even sensationalism that takes place.

As for the carbon dating, you’re wrong; there have been many carbon dating around that area and we had various results. One carbon dating near the coast showed the date to be around 2,000 years old, the one that Greg carbon dated it was around 2-3 thousand years old.

He has a date of 5000 bc as the oldest parts of the Bimini Road.  Not sure where you got those other dates from as the only real dating has come from Greg and his geologist, the mainstream guys, of course, being too lazy and disinterested to do any tests themselves.

Well mdsungate, it’s true that Greg is doing what he wants to do (he really works hard on it!) but he is doing it at the wrong place.

Uh, actually he doesn’t believe that Atlantis was centered in Bimini, both he and Andrew Collins believe there is an area off of Cuba that the capital city was located in. Both Bimini and Andros are ports.

The problem with people like Greg is that they believe at a particular theory, spent time and money to the brick of bankruptcy (remember Bob Sarmast?) and they feel embarrassed to back up.

But he HAS backed up what he has found, with regular reports of his dives of at least the last five years at www.mysterious-america.net There are pictures of all the finds. If I were you, I would take the time to get educated about his work before scoffing at it.

 

I am pretty sure that Greg’s family and friends are making fun at them.

Since most of his friends (like Horus, who is a member here) are also members of the A.R.E. and share the belief in Cayce's work, I doubt that very much.  The only people making fun of them are people too lazy to look for Atlantis themselves.

You can’t compare machu pichu with what Greg is showing us. That’s man-made building or temple or pyramid. What Greg is showing us is nothing.

And what would Machu Pichu look like if it was struck by an earthquake, like Plato says actually happened?  Probably a lot like the rubble you see at Bimini.

Proven by Dr. Robert M. Schoch (An open minded academic that has proven that the sphinx is older than anticipated)

Robert Schoch isn't anybody.  He is a geologist from a small college who took so many hits from his older Sphinx theory that he is desperate to look respectable again in anyway possible.  Yonugani IS manmade, he is just too much of a coward to say so.

Stating that Atlantis was an advance civilization in the middle of the Atlantic with crystals and flying ships…how reliable can he be on that.

Greg has never said that.

As for working with Plato ….Greg has no idea of his work. There is not a single clue from Plato’s work that fits his theory!!!!

Funny, each time I talk with him about Atlantis, I go at him with it from Plato's Atlantis, not Cayce's, and he knows Plato as well as anybody.  You're the one who thinks Plato set Atlantis at Malta, aren't you, when the dialogues clearly put it out in the Atlantic.  Maybe you're the one who doesn't know Plato. 

[Desiree]

This thread is actually a lot better than this one when it comes to Greg and his work, and Greg actually participates in it, too:

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,16827.0.html

[mdsungate]

   LOL, comrades, comrades.  As I’ve mentioned we all have our own little pet theories here at AO and I for one say viva la difference!  I for one have learned a lot by listening to other’s opinions of where and when the fabled land rests.  Be it in Malta, ala Nikas, or Africa ala Qoais, or Anartica ala RobertO, or Bimini where Greg Little is searching, let us not bicker, but revel in the “fact” that unlike the scientific community, we are taking the legend of Atlantis seriously, and it is NOT a taboo subject here at AO, LOL

So then Nikas just what would one expect to find after 12,500 years have passed and the land under investigation has sunk beneath the sea?  Hurricanes aside as Desiree has pointed out, if there’s any evidence of human “mess” it would surely be buried under considerable mud and muck, no?  Greg is diving and looking at the surface primarily.  If there’s anything at Bimini to be found, it needs to be dug just as it would be if it was on the surface.  And I suspect that the sediments involved would be quite deep.

As far as Machu Picchu is concerned, I wasn’t talking about the site itself, but the stone construction.  If you look at how the stones are fitted together, you’ll see the resemblance to the Bimini Wall.  And for that matter look at how the stones are fitted together at Malta.  Again can’t you see the resemblance? 

You know there’s a McDonalds golden arch in almost every corner of the globe today.  So be it Atlantean, or Egyptian, or Incan or what ever you’d like to call it, there is considerable evidence of a megalithic construction technique that is found world wide, and it all dates to prehistory.  Perhaps we should all agree to just refer to the evidence of a prehistoric global culture that shared information on building techniques.  Plato describes Atlantis in far greater detail than he does prehistoric Greece.  Yet the Parthenon sits atop a much older megalithic stone block which dates back to this prehistoric global culture.
 
Mike