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PILLARS OF HERCULES, FINALLY FOUND!!!

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Author Topic: PILLARS OF HERCULES, FINALLY FOUND!!!  (Read 2602 times)
nikas
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« on: August 18, 2009, 11:14:03 pm »

Ladies and gentlemen after years of research and a lot of reading in ancient Greek as well as modern English I found what I was looking for; the UNDISPUTED proof that the Pillars of Hercules are NOT located in Gibraltar. Having said that I have given countless other facts that indicate the same thin but many have misinterpreted them.

Anyway, I was looking for something that would and could be difficult to not to accept. Something that will finally make atlantologists think about it and take the new location seriously.

Here is a passage by Diodorus Siculus!
Quote
But now that we have spoken about Sardinia at sufficient length we shall discuss the islands in the order in which they lie. After those we have mentioned there comes first an island called Pityussa (Ibiza and Formentera), the name being due to the multitude of pine-trees (pityes) which grow throughout it. It lies out in the open sea (?) and is distant from the Pillars of Heracles a voyage of three days and as many nights, from Libya a day and a night, and from Iberia one day; and in size it is about as large as Corcyra. ............

So pay attention:
[Pityussa] He is referring to the island of Ibiza and Formentera. He is stating that it takes 3 days (including nights) so 3*24 hours=72 hours to get from the Pillars of Hercules to this island (Ibiza and Formentera). It takes only one day from Iberia. 12 hours. And 24 hours from Libya.

So hold on a second, if the Pillars are in Iberia why would it take only 12 hours for Ibiza – Iberia and 72 hours pillars-Ibiza? So if the pillars are in Iberia then why one in ancient times would travel 60 hours from Iberia to the pillars?

Pay attention to when he gives 3 coordinates. East, west and south. He doesn’t say that but it makes sense. Look how he starts with the pillars on one side, Libya on the other and Iberia on the third side. If Iberia was on the same side as the pillars why would he mention them both?

I calculated the distance between Libya (modern northern, African coast, nearest to Ibiza) and divided that with the average ancient time speed (5-7 knots) and I got the right time. Around 24 hours. Ibiza-Libya = 24 hours = one day. That’s what Diodurus said a night and a day=24 hr. Perfect.
Iberia – Ibiza=12 hours only a day. This one also perfect. The pillars 72 hours? There is a problem here.

Nevertheless, if you place them near the Egades Islands (Yes... there is the famous Egades near Sicily) it comes out precisely 3 days voyage.

This doesn’t really prove that the pillars are near Sicily but it is a FACT that the Pillars of Hercules weren’t in Spain!!!!

I wonder what Montexano will do this time. How would he come up with something to make it fit…unless he dismisses Diodorus writings.

I am waiting for comments.

P.S Here is the link for the passage:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/5A*.html
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Qoais
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2009, 11:58:46 pm »

Hello Nikas - long time no see!  How are you?  What have you been up to - researching?

Ok - let's see if I can get this straight.  The closer one gets to Iberia, the less time it takes to get to this island, right? ( You KNOW Georgeous is not going to accept Diodorus - he wouldn't accept him from me and he won't accept him from you).  Only Plato will do!!

Quote
Pay attention to when he gives 3 coordinates. East, west and south. He doesn’t say that but it makes sense. Look how he starts with the pillars on one side, Libya on the other and Iberia on the third side. If Iberia was on the same side as the pillars why would he mention them both?

Why wouldn't he?  They are obviously places that people are familiar with, so he mentions them. 

Funny - remember back when you and I very first started talking about the location of the Pillars of Heracles on Sarmast's forum, and we worked on a theory that the pillars had to have been at least at the eastern end of the Atlas mountains?  I've revisited that idea lately and it seems to fit.  I don't know if Sicily was the location or if the pillars were commemmoration pillars to denote the heroics of Hercules when he destroyed the city of the Amazons.  If so, then the pillars WERE around modern day Tunis.  The "harbour" the priest talked about, (as we said back then) would be the Eastern end of the Med., and the sea was the western end because they thought there were islands beyond the Pillars of Heracles and didn't realize what the shape of the Med was on the western end.  Therefore, if Atlantis existed - Plato called it an island because he had no idea that the land was actually all attached to Africa westward past the Pillars of Hercules.  They thought that's where the ocean started.  Once they found out how the land actually ended, in a horse-shoe shape with a passage to the ocean, they then moved the "expression" you might say - to where the land ended.  But I believe it WAS an expression in a lot of cases, meaning that one could go no further, but since they likely thought the pass at Tunis was taking them out into the ocean, that is where the Pillars were located in times past.

 
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Qoais
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2009, 09:35:43 am »

Here's what Herodotus says also:

Quote
Quote
184. From the Garmantians at a distance again of ten days' journey there is another hill of salt and spring of water, and men dwell round it called Atarantians, who alone of all men about whom we know are nameless; for while all taken together have the name Atarantians, each separate man of them has no name given to him. These utter curses against the Sun when he is at his height, and moreover revile him with all manner of foul terms, because he oppresses them by his burning heat, both themselves and their land. After this at a distance of ten days' journey there is another hill of salt and spring of water, and men dwell round it. Near this salt hill is a mountain named Atlas, which is small in circuit and rounded on every side; and so exceedingly lofty is it said to be, that it is not possible to see its summits, for clouds never leave them either in the summer or in the winter. This the natives say is the pillar of the heaven. After this mountain these men got their name, for they are called Atlantians; and it is said that they neither eat anything that has life nor have any dreams.
 
 
185. As far as these Atlantians I am able to mention in order the names of those who are settled in the belt of sand; but for the parts beyond these I can do so no more. However, the belt extends as far as the Pillars of Heracles and also in the parts outside them: and there is a mine of salt in it at a distance of ten days' journey from the Atlantians, and men dwelling there; and these all have their houses built of the lumps of salt, since these parts of Libya which we have now reached are without rain; for if it rained, the walls being made of salt would not be able to last: and the salt is dug up there both white and purple in colour. Above the sand-belt, in the parts which are in the direction of the South Wind and towards the interior of Libya, the country is uninhabited, without water and without wild beasts, 

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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
nikas
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2009, 02:30:02 pm »

Hello Nikas - long time no see!  How are you?  What have you been up to - researching?

Ok - let's see if I can get this straight.  The closer one gets to Iberia, the less time it takes to get to this island, right? ( You KNOW Georgeous is not going to accept Diodorus - he wouldn't accept him from me and he won't accept him from you).  Only Plato will do!!

Quote
Pay attention to when he gives 3 coordinates. East, west and south. He doesn’t say that but it makes sense. Look how he starts with the pillars on one side, Libya on the other and Iberia on the third side. If Iberia was on the same side as the pillars why would he mention them both?

Why wouldn't he?  They are obviously places that people are familiar with, so he mentions them. 

Funny - remember back when you and I very first started talking about the location of the Pillars of Heracles on Sarmast's forum, and we worked on a theory that the pillars had to have been at least at the eastern end of the Atlas mountains?  I've revisited that idea lately and it seems to fit.  I don't know if Sicily was the location or if the pillars were commemmoration pillars to denote the heroics of Hercules when he destroyed the city of the Amazons.  If so, then the pillars WERE around modern day Tunis.  The "harbour" the priest talked about, (as we said back then) would be the Eastern end of the Med., and the sea was the western end because they thought there were islands beyond the Pillars of Heracles and didn't realize what the shape of the Med was on the western end.  Therefore, if Atlantis existed - Plato called it an island because he had no idea that the land was actually all attached to Africa westward past the Pillars of Hercules.  They thought that's where the ocean started.  Once they found out how the land actually ended, in a horse-shoe shape with a passage to the ocean, they then moved the "expression" you might say - to where the land ended.  But I believe it WAS an expression in a lot of cases, meaning that one could go no further, but since they likely thought the pass at Tunis was taking them out into the ocean, that is where the Pillars were located in times past.
 

Hi Qoais, long time no see.talk. You know you're missing the point of that particular passage; How can it be, Iberia is just a day from Ibiza and the pillars three days. So in other words it takes 12 hours to reach Iberia and 72 hours the pillars? According to George the pillars are suposse to be in Iberia. Why would diodorus mention both when they are at the same place?

Reread the passage and think that through you will see clearly what he is describing. I am telling you; there is nothing that George can do now. He is noone to dismiss diodorus. Plato has nothing to do with geography. Diodorus is in a way a geographer, plato is just presenting us with a story told by a priest.

George has claimed that all the ancient writters claim that the pillars were in Iberia. I haven't found a single sourse that suport that claim!!!

About Heredotus. It also suports very clear the idea of the pillars being not far from Sicily, it has to be somewhere near those Islands called Egadi, near Sardinia. It makes sense if you think; the pillars were the gates to the underworld. We all know that the island of hades is near there. Heredotus talks about atlas being near salty marshes, dont forget that the desciption given by him matches perfectly the area around tuniz.

http://www.ecosystema.ru/08nature/world/35e.htm

Qoais, your passage is one more proof that I am right.... Grin
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Qoais
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2009, 06:13:43 pm »

Lake Tritonis was a salt marsh where the Amazons lived.  Herodotus says that the Amazons lived on an island as did the Atlantians, however, he also said that one could walk to the islands.  In other words, the water was shallow enough to be able to walk across.  This explains how the Amazons could live on an island and yet attack their neighbors - the Atlantians, who were also on an island, and then work their way eastward across Libya etc. etc.  It's the word island that causes the problem, but if we realize they didn't know what was west beyond Tunis, it makes sense.  If we accept that it could be an inland island, that's even better.  They think that the whole of Western Africa -beyond Tunis - is an island.
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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Logic rules.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."
Brigster
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 01:23:24 am »

Nikas, you are off your rocker, as usual.  All you do is pick on Georgeos theory, like a fly on flypaper, rattling around, trying to get off. When are you all going to realize that Georgeos is ten times the researcher of all of you?

And he's ours, all ours.  He posts at Atlantis Rising, not here.
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Brigster
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 01:24:32 am »

Take that, librals.  Wink
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nikas
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 07:28:46 am »

Nikas, you are off your rocker, as usual.   

If you think I am OFF, then Deal with the passage. That's a proof once and for all.  I just showed you that Iberia and Pillars are in different locations and you're telling me I am wrong? Then give me your interpretation of that passage...

All you do is pick on Georgeos theory, like a fly on flypaper, rattling around, trying to get off. When are you all going to realize that Georgeos is ten times the researcher of all of you?
And he's ours, all ours.  He posts at Atlantis Rising, not here.

I pick on any theory that I believe is wrong. That’s my job as an Atlantis believer. Unlike George that picks on people rather than their theories.  If there was a shred of proof that Atlantis may have been near Spain I would support that theory like crazy, but I don’t see it!!

I was wondering why hasn't he posted anything in "YOUR" forum since March? Ahahahaha  Grin
Brigg, Keep him, it’s yours. Even though he himself has got tired of you guys and has abounded you. If he had the balls he could come in here and face people. If he can't do that you except him to face the critics in a conference?
Before you make him the greatest researcher of them all, try to prove that he is a researcher after all. The guy never went to college and just spends his time online all day. Uses automatic translators and you telling me that that guy is a knowledgeable person? He has no idea of the procedure that one follows to build a hypothesis, support it and present it. He was trying to teach me the uses of Greek words like PRO TOU. It’s like me trying to teach a Chinese guy the use of a Chinese word bc I read it on a translator…

Brigg my friend, at the time of Plato Iberia was known as Iberia, even in Egypt, So if Iberia was Atlantis then why wouldn’t they just say so…Atlantis was Iberia. Also, Plato states that Atlantis disappeared under the sea, subdued…. Like Georgeous theory…

P.S. sorry Brigg but I am a Conservative person... Cheesy


« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 07:30:43 am by nikas » Report Spam   Logged
Mario Dantas
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WWW
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2009, 10:00:43 am »


Dear nikas,

I followed your link,

nice blog!
http://atlantislinks.blogspot.com/

regards,
M
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Brigster
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2009, 10:56:51 pm »

Nikas, I get the feeling you are just jealous of Georgeos, like many a researcher that crossed his path.  Well, it ain't my fault he is a better researcher than you others that come to Atlantis Rising.  He's put the work in, you fellas haven't. 
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Brigster
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2009, 10:58:58 pm »

Quote
I was wondering why hasn't he posted anything in "YOUR" forum since March?

He'll be back.  Georgeos knows he has friends in us mods there and that we aren't about to let him get embarrassed by the likes of people like you, Nikas.
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nikas
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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2009, 07:26:09 pm »


Dear nikas,

I followed your link,

nice blog!
http://atlantislinks.blogspot.com/

regards,
M

Thanks, and if you want to add any link even yours feel free to inform me.
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nikas
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2009, 07:42:26 pm »

Nikas, I get the feeling you are just jealous of Georgeos, like many a researcher that crossed his path.  Well, it ain't my fault he is a better researcher than you others that come to Atlantis Rising.  He's put the work in, you fellas haven't. 

Ok let's see.
I am jealous of his ...Degrees? No. I have many degrees, while he doesn't.
I am jealous of his ...English?  No.  Although my English is not Shakespearean it is just perfect for me. No one complained that can't understand what I am saying.
I am jealous of his ...Success? No. He hasn't had ANY success whatsoever so far. Not a single success. He is known only in AR FORUM. No one outside that forum has any idea who he is.
I am jealous of his ...Achievements? No. He has no achievements in his life in any filed. My self I am a successful, Professor, Computer scientist and financially....whatever....
Tell me now, what I am jealous of?
So he is better researcher than whom? And who said that he qualifies as a researcher in the first place.
http://www.princetonreview.com/Careers.aspx?cid=136
Have a look at what means to become a researcher.  I am starting to doubt your college degree BRIGG. Did you ever any technicall class, where you learn about all these stuff? How to conduct a survey, how to conduct a research e.t.c
To do a scientific research you need to have at least a PHD. That’s what a PHD is all about, conducting a research about a certain subject in a particular field? There are steps and certain criteria that you need to follow and meet in order for your paper to be published. You BOY has no idea how a paper is accepted for review by the scientific board, in this case the Archeological board of review;
http://www.har-indy.com/Links.html
Give that to your boy and open his eyes, get him out of his dreams. That link is the reality. He, and you I suspect, have no idea what to become a researcher means.
There are two different things you can do BRIGG. Either reply to me about this topic again and try to tell me how great George is…or stop for while and read few things in that site. Try to examine Georgeous work from that prism and then come back.
Nikas
 

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nikas
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2009, 07:52:51 pm »

Quote
I was wondering why hasn't he posted anything in "YOUR" forum since March?

He'll be back.  Georgeos knows he has friends in us mods there and that we aren't about to let him get embarrassed by the likes of people like you, Nikas.

You mean REAL people (like me!) So in other words without you he would feel embarrassed? you know Brigg who feels embarrassed? People that have things to be embarrassed 1111  Grin

Brigg, It's not just me. 99% of the peoples he ahs chatted with him, don't talk to him anymore. they consider him crazy or whatever. these 99% are like what, over 1,000 people?! Now, if 1,000 tell me that my theory is wrong...hmm I would consider it but not give up. Butttt...if 1,000 people tell me I am crazyyy....I would really take that seriously.

Let's say he is right and he is the best researcher out there. Why doesn't he face the world? He has to defend his theory. I respect his claim, I don't agree with it, but I respect it. Nevertheless, I don't respect his behavior to defend his theory. How hard is for a researcher to just defend his theory and leave out insults and name callings?!?!
Someone tells him that the pillars are not in Gibraltar. Regardless what if this person is right or wrong George has to approach it with caution. He has to show facts that this new claim is wrong. Even if that person doesn’t change his mind George has no right to attack.
Brigg, once more; think before you talk
NIKAS
 
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Tristan
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 01:04:11 pm »

Georgeos is/was and always will be a charlatan.
It is a shame that he has managed to sucker gullible innocents like Brig here and Smiley.
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"The rain in Spain brings madness & mediocrity."
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