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Does One Have a Moral Responsibility to Fight Evil?


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Author Topic: Does One Have a Moral Responsibility to Fight Evil?  (Read 1397 times)
rockessence
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« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2007, 01:37:34 am »

Excellent rumination Andrew..... and well worth the ponder. 

"The intention is for us to correct OURSELVES at all times."

Perhaps this is too small a portion of a larger thought.  As a student of the Saint Germain Ascended Master Discourses, my statement is from that context.  Our soul's intention is what I was refering to.  It is the human part that trucks with "good and evil"....
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Thus ye may find in thy mental and spiritual self, ye can make thyself just as happy or just as miserable as ye like. How miserable do ye want to be?......For you GROW to heaven, you don't GO to heaven. It is within thine own conscience that ye grow there.

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Andrew Waters
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« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2007, 12:36:10 am »



 Herefornow wrote: ''Yet, It's up to us nonetheless to decide on how were going to handle anything. It's up to God to decide if that decision is Good or Evil.''

Then the bold type says we don't have that much of a choice in the matter. If one makes a decision based on her or his understanding of a God-given nuanced morality and yet the final decision is God's then is it fair to say we have a say so, at all, in the decision before it becomes God's decision? What if God doesn't have that earthly, nuanced position of morality. Is it fair to humans to have to accept that non-nuanced version of morality even though it was bestowed upon humankind. Expressed another way, it seems unfair for humans to possess any version of morality and not know what the outcome of it will be if God is the judge. I'm not talking about cold-blooded murderers here, just ordinary folks. I'm saying a person may feel they are right in their position since they will feel it is God-given to begin with. Yet God may not like the decision even though the individual stakes his soul on this position because they feel it is from God. All I'm saying is I'd rather not get involved in anything simply because I don't know what the result will be once God looks at it. In effect my decision is worthless particularly in light of the fact that God is the final Judge.

Who knows, He/she may not like me saying this. Wink

But I don't know that I'm wrong in doing so; I haven't been told that I am. So how can I be wrong. I didn't make me so I feel comfortable in looking at it this way. Cool
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HereForNow
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« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2007, 01:26:31 am »

Now to you, it's ok to do that. It was your free will that allows you too think it's ok.
 In the end, who's right and who's wrong?
Even when were only talking ordinary folks who live day to day as we all do.
It seems we know right and wrong as more of a feeling then a thought. However if you lack an emotional sence of morality, then I could understand your stance on this.

All I was trying to point out is, that right and wrong is the choice we must make. Our actions and thoughts are what God allows us to chose having or doing.
Now you can't say that you don't feel you've made a bad choice from time to time, or felt Evil because of what you did. Then again, you did something that might be the most awesome thing you ever did, and it felt so right, or good as we'll put it.

It was our choice to do either. Now let's say you die and go to Heaven/Hell. Was that our choice too? Based on my own understanding, No!

That's my point!  Grin Wink
I will say this though, you are great fun to discuss this with.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 01:29:10 am by HereForNow » Report Spam   Logged

Dawn Moline
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« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2007, 07:04:38 pm »

Andrew's words bring new areas to light. 

What if God's idea of good and evil happens to be different than our own?

Think of if, we have, in the Old Testament, a god who thinks nothing of allowing Job to have his entire family slaughtered, his life taken away, all to prove a point with his chief prosecutor, Satan. 

We have a God who thinks nothing of changing Lot's wife into a pillar of salt, simply for "looking back."

We have a  God who repeatedly allows his chosen heralds, the Israelites, to repeatedly be defeated in wars and sold into slavery, for disappointing him, never mind being allowed to wander in the wilderness for forty years.

Not to mention, mass extinction events such as Soddom and Gomorrah and the worldwide flood. 

Is not the medicine God has prescribed for some of these events just as evil, if not more, as the events themselves?

Yes, perhaps our idea of what constitutes "good" and what constitutes "evil" is different from that of God's after all.

Cheers,

Dawn
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HereForNow
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« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2007, 04:02:29 am »

 Smiley I understand the point, however the stories of the bible is what formed alot of what we all base our morality on. Thou shalt not Steal, Lie or kill. It's wrong to do those things and we know this because of how it feels after we see the consequences.

    The question:  Does One Have a Moral Responsibility to Fight Evil?
What's good and evil without a God of goodness, and an ultimate evil doer?
Regaurdless of what the stories state, the entire bible is based on a greater purpose.
Evil is a destroyer, a goodness leads to life.

Chosing to be good is more productive, then being evil for most of us which is why I beleive it's up to us to chose how were going to live. However, to fight evil as a whole is not our responsibility. We need to make a decision for ourselves in regaurds to our individual desires. It's morally more responsible to clean out our own back yards, before telling the neighbor to mow their lawn. It's morally better to give to someone unconditionally because as a loan, not having it returned can cause bitterness.
Lies? Well, have you ever told one to someone and found yourself having to lie about more then one thing by the time the day was over? LOL
Yet telling the truth meant not having to remember anything, because the answer is the same. Even the mere examples show a more pleasant expression of how easy it is to fight our own evils and if everyone did it, we can only imagine how great we could all be. Perhaps in God's point of veiw, he wanted the monkies to learn more bitter lessons by being more strict on the dolphins who were smarter. So they would lead by example.  Wink
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HereForNow
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« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2007, 08:25:04 pm »

Yes, perhaps our idea of what constitutes "good" and what constitutes "evil" is different from that of God's after all.

Cheers,


What I'm wondering in this case is; What is God's real will then?

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« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2007, 02:51:12 am »

Andrew's words bring new areas to light. 

What if God's idea of good and evil happens to be different than our own?

Think of if, we have, in the Old Testament, a god who thinks nothing of allowing Job to have his entire family slaughtered, his life taken away, all to prove a point with his chief prosecutor, Satan. 

We have a God who thinks nothing of changing Lot's wife into a pillar of salt, simply for "looking back."

This was an Anunnki's doing not God's and the interpretation was wrong it was vaporized for looking back.  That's typically what happens in a nuclear explosion.

We have a  God who repeatedly allows his chosen heralds, the Israelites, to repeatedly be defeated in wars and sold into slavery, for disappointing him, never mind being allowed to wander in the wilderness for forty years.

Jews were paganistic Kazars who nearly went exticnt due to their hedonistic lifestyles.

Not to mention, mass extinction events such as Soddom and Gomorrah and the worldwide flood. 

Again Anunnaki nukes.  A way of weeding out corruption.

  The FLOOD, was caused by Niboru's passing not anything malice from God.

Is not the medicine God has prescribed for some of these events just as evil, if not more, as the events themselves?

Yes, perhaps our idea of what constitutes "good" and what constitutes "evil" is different from that of God's after all.

Cheers,

Dawn
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Jake
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« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2007, 10:51:22 am »

Quote
This was an Anunnki's doing not God's

As far as the entire bible is concerned, one can interpret :
Elohim = Annunaki = God(s)

If Sodom and Gomorrah were evil, in "gods" eyes, and the Annunaki were (are) evil, and nuking a city(s) is evil, where dose that leave us. An evil entity doing an evil thing to evil people? Wink To me that indicates that maybe Sodom and Gomorrah may not have been evil, maybe just rebellious.

Just one of the multitudes of thoughts that are going head at this time. I am sorry if it is a little off subject.

Jake
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« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2007, 11:16:49 am »

Quote
                                                       

                                                       
Quote
...Today there is
little Democracy to defend, and we can build a new world order from the ground up...
Quote
...Freedom is fostered by human liberalism and
Christianity...
Quote
...Not in centuries has the Christian world had the opportunity to establish regional
internationalism...
Quote
...The idea of
every little nation having the right of self-determination only spells industrial
paralysis and social hell...
Quote
We must relinquish national sovereignty and enter into international sovereignty...

If you keep up with these key words, in diatribes such as this, the "Faith Based Initiative" money will be rolling in, to the Midwayers, for sure.

Unfortunately when was this written? My research says 1943. A funny thing happened that year. The entrance of the United States into the largest loss of human life in recorded history, WWII.

Does the fight against "evil" have the capacity to turn into "evil" itself? I firmly believe that it does. At what point does a "moral responsibility" turn into a crusade?

Jake



Diatribe???   Grin

Crusade???   You must think crusade is always a negative term.
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« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2007, 11:39:14 am »

Whoever heard of neutrality between right and wrong?  How can you be neutral in the
struggle between good and evil?  In any ideological struggle neutrality is suicidal.

Neutrality means the enemy is free to pick you off one at a time.  In local
government a sheriff, when hard-pressed by lawlessness, can deputize any number of
citizens, but such a plan wont work on a national scale.  Such results can only be
gotten by internationalism.

Honest men cannot have confidential dealing with rascals.  Honest nations keep their
word and live up to their treaties.  The honest administration does not make treaties
with a dishonest neighbor.  If war is to be outlawed, the farce of neutrality must
end.  It is immoral and cowardly for a group of law-abiding citizens to stand idly by
and see a fellow citizen being held up, beaten and robbed; and such moral
indifference is suicidal to a nation.  What can be said of Christian nations that
stand by complacently while the world gangsters strafe and plunder the civilized
world, murdering and starving little children?  May it never happen again!
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"melody has power a whole world to transform."
Forever, music will remain the universal language of men, angels, and spirits.
Harmony is the speech of Havona.

http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper44.html
HereForNow
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« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2007, 09:54:10 pm »

Quote
This was an Anunnki's doing not God's

As far as the entire bible is concerned, one can interpret :
Elohim = Annunaki = God(s)

If Sodom and Gomorrah were evil, in "gods" eyes, and the Annunaki were (are) evil, and nuking a city(s) is evil, where dose that leave us. An evil entity doing an evil thing to evil people? Wink To me that indicates that maybe Sodom and Gomorrah may not have been evil, maybe just rebellious.

Just one of the multitudes of thoughts that are going head at this time. I am sorry if it is a little off subject.

Jake


Yeah but I have studied Satan's bible as well, which Anton LeVay also expresses that Satan is merely an Angel who would not follow "Jehovah" (strange that actually called our God that)....And that Good and Evil is contradictive to whats really the truth.
At a time I actually agreed that the truth is that perhaps creation vs., evolution are hand and hand.
Which suggests to my thought process  Smiley that everyone is right and wrong.
Are you still with me? LOL (kidding)

I love the whole philosophy involved in prayer and beleiving in a loving and forgiving God.
This is why I'm willing to openly admit that I don't beleive the bible (king J.,Revised, ect.) as a whole.
Personally I think that Cherubs, and Nephilims, and Perhaps a huge hovering craft were mistaken as a huge throne. Were ET. They have always been, is how this beleif teaches. We were seeded.

The war in Heaven? The Fallen Angels and Satan, Rise to the Heavens. And the Heavenly Host desending upon them.
How many years actually past from when Jesus was murdered, to the time that John of Patmos wrote the book of Revelations? And again it describes the very same vision of God's heavenly throne as the book of Ezekiel, Enoch, David, ect. During that time, can you tell me which Ceaser was in power of the holy land? 666 Was his name in some strange number placing for the greek alphabet. Hinting that it's actually something read and writen on behalf of a Jewish teaching.

Which now all of this gets back to what the truth really is about everything.
We can't even fathom the whole truth because there is to much of it we can't begin to understand.
Total human knowledge is only based on what we can see within the heavens and Earth with our toiling of tinker toys.
The real science is feeling it when you close your eyes and let go as you fly through space in spirit. Experiencing a kind of unity with every super massive object down to something nano-sized even to a bucky ball....
I have never personally done this. However it's how I know that if we could, then I would understand Satan's Jealosy of humans. What we know so far suggests that at one time, he could and because of that they will all perish.
Man, will be left to inherit that sence. Then he is ready to know the truth about everything.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 11:00:39 pm by HereForNow » Report Spam   Logged

Jake
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« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2007, 10:51:41 am »

Quote
Crusade???   You must think crusade is always a negative term.

In the context of my post, yes the word crusade is meant to have a negative connotation. However, I do not believe that the term crusade is always negative. I used that terminology to underline some of the things done in the name of "moral responsibility" that were not necessarily all that good. For example the Crusades of the late medieval time period.

Quote
Whoever heard of neutrality between right and wrong?  How can you be neutral in the
struggle between good and evil?  In any ideological struggle neutrality is suicidal.
Neutrality means the enemy is free to pick you off one at a time.  In local
government a sheriff, when hard-pressed by lawlessness, can deputize any number of
citizens, but such a plan wont work on a national scale.  Such results can only be
gotten by internationalism.

Honest men cannot have confidential dealing with rascals.  Honest nations keep their
word and live up to their treaties.  The honest administration does not make treaties
with a dishonest neighbor.  If war is to be outlawed, the farce of neutrality must
end.  It is immoral and cowardly for a group of law-abiding citizens to stand idly by
and see a fellow citizen being held up, beaten and robbed; and such moral
indifference is suicidal to a nation.  What can be said of Christian nations that
stand by complacently while the world gangsters strafe and plunder the civilized
world, murdering and starving little children?  May it never happen again!

It reads a little better when you cut out all the talk of the "new world order", "relinquish(ing) of national sovereignty", "regional internationalism", "..International Court must interpret the laws; and International Police must enforce the laws.  Lesser nations must be forced into the international union.", "Mandatory law is law enforced by unquestioned force.", "The International Police will be known as Peace Armies.", "Educate zealous crusaders to toil for the new order.", and things along these lines.

It is scary to think that this language was used just before WWII.
(Apply this language to the events of today, and see what you get. Wink)

I am having some trouble figuring out exactly when it was written, but it was either:

The Midwayer Messages (1943)
or
A Democratic Manifesto (1942)

How many people total died for the crusade that was WWII. Here is a hint, more people lost there lives during WWII than during any other period of recorded history.
Furthermore, it set the stage for many of the conflicts that we are happening around the globe today.

How far can moral responsibility take you and still be good? 

Jake

(What is the connection between the Midwayers, and Urantia? Just curious.)
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HereForNow
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« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2007, 03:50:50 pm »

How far can moral responsibility take you and still be good? 

Jake



This is exactly what I meant by fighting the evil that is our own.
Thing is, we have to know what is good and evil first.
This is where being morally right and wrong comes into play.

Again, no man, woman or child here within this forum or the world is completely without sin. Therefor, we have to decide for ourselves what is right and wrong. To judge the actions of others, make us hypocritical.......
The fight agaist evil is a matter of not doing the same wrong things we've done or might do. Morally, it's not up to us to tell others what is right and wrong, until we've cleaned out our own back yards.  Smiley

It's just my opinion, so please don't throw any furniture at me or anything here.
For me, karma or fate as it's called has always been about tolerence, and balance.
I know that if I do another harm, I will end up suffering somehow for my actions.
Life is funny that way.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 03:58:14 pm by HereForNow » Report Spam   Logged

Jake
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« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2007, 10:46:55 am »

Yes, Herefornow,

I agree wholeheartedly!

Unfortunately the vast majority of people seem to feel better about their own beings when they are judging others. I think this is because they are unable or unwilling to see reality as it truly is. Thus when it hits them in the face, or heaven forbid they ponder it a little, they get scared and look to solve other peoples "problems" in lieu of their own.

I do not think that it is possible, with the average intelligence and mindset, of people today, for people to mind their own business.

I think that our shared view is expressed very well in the lyrics of Hank Williams Jr. :     You do your thing, and I'll do my thing too.

Jake
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HereForNow
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« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2007, 05:15:37 pm »

Yes, Herefornow,

I agree wholeheartedly!

Unfortunately the vast majority of people seem to feel better about their own beings when they are judging others. I think this is because they are unable or unwilling to see reality as it truly is. Thus when it hits them in the face, or heaven forbid they ponder it a little, they get scared and look to solve other peoples "problems" in lieu of their own.

I do not think that it is possible, with the average intelligence and mindset, of people today, for people to mind their own business.

I think that our shared view is expressed very well in the lyrics of Hank Williams Jr. :     You do your thing, and I'll do my thing too.

Jake

Well Jake, we have to take what we are presented with in every situation, and do the more productive thing. Be true to ourselves, and try to do the best we can. Thats only one of the ways I've tried to lead the young by example. Not to help them, but to show them how to help themselves without saying a word.  Wink
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