New Budget Estimate Of Public Plan Proves It Lowers Cost And Covers More America

[Austin Heller]

New Budget Estimate Of Public Plan Proves It Lowers Cost And Covers More Americans

A couple of weeks ago, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released a preliminary score of the health care legislation under consideration in the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee. The bill was estimated to cost $1 trillion over 10 years, while reducing the number of uninsured by “only” one-third. As many informed bloggers noted at the time, the cost estimate was incomplete because the legislation that the CBO reviewed did not contain language about a public health insurance plan or an employer mandate.
Nevertheless, Republicans seized on the opportunity to engage in merciless political attacks, citing the incomplete CBO score as proof that health care reform is not worth doing:
John McCain: “[The CBO estimate] should be a wake up call for all of us to scrap the current bill and start over in a true bipartisan fashion.”
John Boehner: “[T]he public option would cost over $1 trillion, and would cause 23 million Americans to lose their private health care coverage.”
Lindsey Graham: “The CBO estimates were a death blow to a government run health care plan.”
The HELP Committee has since added language for a public plan option to its legislation, as well as an employer mandate provision. The AP reports the new results:
The plan carries a 10-year price tag of slightly over $600 billion, and would lead toward an estimated 97 percent of all Americans having coverage, according to the Congressional Budget Office, Sens. Edward M. Kennedy and Chris Dodd said in a letter to other members of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. [...]
The [employer mandate] provision is also estimated to greatly reduce the number of workers whose employers would drop coverage, thus addressing a major concern noted by CBO when it reviewed the earlier proposals.
In other words, the addition of the public plan dramatically reduced the overall cost of the bill and ensured coverage of almost all Americans. So what excuses will McCain, Boehner, Graham, and other Republicans offer now? Their attacks were not only found to be baseless, but their concerns about the costs and coverage have also been addressed.
UpdateThe incoming president of the American Medical Association, Dr. J. James Rohack, said his organization now supports a public plan, after initially indicating its opposition. The AMA supports an “American model” that includes both “a private system and a public system, working together,” he said.
UpdateRead CBO's letter here. Jonathan Cohn explains why the final cost of the bill will likely be somewhere between $1-1.3 trillion.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/01/new-cbo-score-health-care/

[Austin Heller]

124 Responses to “New Budget Estimate Of Public Plan Proves It Lowers Cost And Covers More Americans”

Leftside Annie Says:

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!! IT'S BAD! SOCIALIST!! COMMIE!!! UNAMURKIN!! FRENCH!!!! BAD!!!!
Shut up, you stupid anti-American greedhead pukes!!! Just shut up.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:13 pm

ralph the wonder locust Says:

But a public plan would mean THE END OF ALL PRIVATE INSURANCE!!!!!!
It's not fair!!!!!javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:14 pm

DutchHenry Says:

Can someone let the spinless Dems(Conserva corrupts)in on the secret please.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:15 pm

kasinca Says:

Nationalize for profit healthcare companies. We want universal healthcare for one and all.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:16 pm

katy Says:

So what excuses will McCain, Boehner, Graham, and other Republicans offer now? Their attacks were not only found to be baseless, but their concerns about the costs and coverage have also been addressed.
whell don't leave out those DINOs...
and all the other charlie brown dems...javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:23 pm

Another Joe Says:

I am less concerned what excuses repugs will have - they are in the minority and the public overwhelmingly supports this. Lying liars will do what they do - tell lies.
I am more concerned what some DEMS will say - there have been indications that they were willing to drop public option all together.
Yes, there are conflicting reports, so don't know what to expect.
Our biggest obstacle for health care reform is going to be DEMS and the curious way leadership (and in some instances obama himself) sells out his base, capitulating to very unpopular repugs.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:23 pm

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:


Another Joe Says:
I am more concerned
Yes, we know.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:26 pm

Oval12345678 aka James K. Sayre Says:

Hmm, some good news, no doubt... It's too bad that MSNBC had to totally black-out the Keith O. show today and force-feed more of this seemingly endless crap about a pop star who passed away a week ago, now. Enough already, MSNBC: this ain't the weekend when you happily serve up stupid nonsense about prisons and sex slaves...javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:26 pm

Reggie Says:

black-out the Keith O. show today and force-feed more of this seemingly endless crap about a pop star
David Shuster who hosted Countdown this evening had a nine minute segment regarding health-care reform including an excellent interview Bernie Sanders.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:31 pm

spencers mom Says:

Holyshit, Batman!
97% of Americans covered, cost over 10 years would be $600 billion. Less than TARP, which was over less than six months, and benefited no one I know.
These are going to be hard numbers to ignore! I hope the GNOP spends a LOT of time trying to refute the data because the more they do, the more free and wide-spread publicity these numbers will get, and the higher the percent of Americans who want a public option will go.
If we can't start with single payer, I'll settle for a well run public option that will have all the bargaining power with none of the profit motive... just the thing to put private insurance out of business. Which leaves us with single payer.
PEACEjavascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:37 pm

Lefty Liberal Says:

So what excuses will McCain, Boehner, Graham, and other Republicans offer now?
These are Republicans, they lie for a profession. Facts don't mean anything to them as long as their corporate masters can screw the American public and make lots of money for themselves.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:38 pm

joe cantwell Says:

...
hmmm,
let me run it by
dr. gingrich and see
what he has to say about it.
:|
hmmm.
º: |javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:40 pm

Trittydi Says:

They will continue to spout nonsense from the original CBO numbers regardless of the new ones.
*javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:41 pm

joe cantwell Says:

Lefty Liberal Says:
So what excuses will McCain, Boehner, Graham, and other Republicans offer now?
These are Republicans, they lie for a profession. Facts don't mean anything to them as long as their corporate masters can screw the American public and make lots of money for themselves.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:38 pm
...
hmmm.
really?
...
ok, if you say so.
:|javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:42 pm

joe cantwell Says:

...
oh great,
another virus.
:)javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:49 pm

kasinca Says:

The unhinging of the delusional trolls and wingnuts will continue. They get their information from their alternate universe and the drug addicts and college flunk outs who are the talking heads for Murdoch. Remember, wingnuts are really irrelevant.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:50 pm

dbadass Says:

I heart MILFsjavascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:50 pm

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

Looking for a MILF? No. But, I would like to someday find a reich-wing GOPig with an ounce of commons sense.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:51 pm

joe cantwell Says:

maggieling4846 Says:
Looking for a MILF? Look no further!
Cougars on *** AgelessMate C om *** are exactly what you're looking for! It doesn't matter if you are looking for a short term suga mama or a longer journy on a tantric discovery, *** AgelessMate C om *** of Cougars has it all, as long as it's over 40 that is!
***javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 10:54 pm

Marie Says:

What will Republicans do? One of two options: they will ignore the recent study, and refer only to the one that carries a price that scared some people - or --
they will LIE.
As for BlueDogs -- they will pat themselves on the back and take credit.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:00 pm

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

Osarah bin Palin continues to perverse the Flag:
http://www.runnersworld.com/photo/sarahpalin/images/sarahpalin_200908_477x600_7.jpg
*not photoshopped*javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:03 pm

RandomChaos Says:

JC,
why'd ya haf tu go do dat?javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:05 pm

Doodlebug Shayne Says:

Another Joe can't complain about the subject of the thread so he complains about what Obama might be going to do instead.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:09 pm

OutstandingInAPlagueOfLocusts Says:

The plan carries a 10-year price tag of slightly over $600 billion, and would lead toward an estimated 97 percent of all Americans having coverage, according to the Congressional Budget Office,
$60 billion a year sounds like a bargain. Heck, we spend more than that per year in overpayments to defense contractors. Somebody check my math as I've been in the chardonney, but if we have 2.5 million insures under such a plan doesn't that work out to $240/person/year. Heck, I'll pay for mine and 10 other guys and still come out ahead. OT: What is a MILF? Am I just uncool and everyone else knows?javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:10 pm

Doodlebug Shayne Says:

Thanks Faiz for putting up a topic we've all been looking for.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:12 pm

joe cantwell Says:

...
doodle,
another joe = maggieling4846
capice?
:|
:)javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:14 pm

spencers mom Says:

OutstandingInAPlagueOfLocusts Says:
$60 billion a year sounds like a bargain.
Unless I read this completely wrong, that $600 billion is the total cost for ten years, not per year.
PEACEjavascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:14 pm

spencers mom Says:

Oops, my bad. That IS what you said...
Time for bed.
PEACEjavascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:15 pm

Mathazar Says:

Good one Joe, but you left out Condi.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:22 pm

joe cantwell Says:

Mathazar Says:
Good one Joe, but you left out Condi.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:22 pm
...
'scooz me while i kiss the sky...!
:0javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:24 pm

christopher wiwi Says:

I`m with Spencers mom on this one.I really want to see what the re-pukes have to say and what kind of info comes out of their very small tent and don`t be surprised at their tin hats being screwed on to tight.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:37 pm

evangenital Says:

The repiggies will fight the public option tooth and nail. They are only concerned with the comfort and well-being of their insurance buddies.
Please don't ever vote for that repiggie trash ever again, not even for local office.
They are all in on this crap, and you can't trust them, no matter how friendly or accessible some of them might appear to be.
They are all lying crooks.javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:37 pm

christopher wiwi Says:

evangenital Says:
The repiggies will fight the public option tooth and nail. They are only concerned with the comfort and well-being of their insurance buddies.
Please don't ever vote for that repiggie trash ever again, not even for local office.
They are all in on this crap, and you can't trust them, no matter how friendly or accessible some of them might appear to be.
They are all lying crooks.
------------------------------------------------------------
Can`t forget the HYPOCRISY.....javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:40 pm

Megaloptera McWars Says:

Awesome. If I'm correct, that means Obama's proposal for a "down payment" on health would actually cover the bulk of health care reform.
Hey, didn't a quasi-troll this morning propose eliminating the FDA and Medicare/Medicaid for a reform plan?javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:40 pm

katy Says:

OutstandingInAPlagueOfLocusts Says:
[...]
OT: What is a MILF? Am I just uncool and everyone else knows?
probably not everyone, and you're not uncool...
but it IS time you knew (it's been around a while)
bookmark this site for future reference:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MILFjavascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:49 pm

katy Says:

msnbc was screwy tonight... i settle in to watch rachel maddow and the rebroadcast of countdown... both pre-empted for the breaking michael jackson "news"...
now, i discover that shuster is doing countdown NOW - at the same time as daily show / colbert...
sorry, msnbc...javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:54 pm

dbadass Says:

Television in general is screwy as far as I can tell but it has been a long time since I bothered to check it out...javascript:void(0)
July 1st, 2009 at 11:58 pm

katy Says:

yes, mcwars, on this morning's FAST thread...javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:04 am

wiley Says:

Endless possibilities when the common good and the decision to use the tax revenue of we American citizens to promote the general welfare and common good, versus ONE Mr. Jensen's corporate cosmology model of economic rentier, owning-class dickish-twatwaffles.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:07 am

marwick Says:

Who wants to bet their family's health on the reliability of a "government estimate?"
Costs will skyrocket. You can't just add 50-million non-paying members to the health care system without somebody else (aka "YOU") having to pay the tab.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:05 am

BobbyG Says:

See "Doing some basic health care reform math."javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 am

Megaloptera McWars Says:

This could really provide the boost needed to get out of the hype-and-fail mentality that allows the old guard to frame the debate. It's just the adrenaline rush needed as long as the admin. and other reps and sens. tout this analysis. Get the cameras off the odd couple, Baucus and Grassley.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 am

[Austin Heller]

Megaloptera McWars Says:

marwick Says:
Who wants to bet their family's health on the reliability of a "government estimate?"
Costs will skyrocket. You can't just add 50-million non-paying members to the health care system without somebody else (aka "YOU") having to pay the tab.
You're wrong, troll. The trillion dollar estimate, an impartial, that YOUR ILK touted didn't even include the public option or employer mandate (read above). People can CHOOSE under this plan to move to the public plan and pay LESS -- no, they won't be permitted to pay nothing, at least most of them -- and save money on the BS they're paying now (advertising, lobbying, CEO pay, etc.).
So you're knee-jerk contention that this will be a free program is BUNK.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:20 am

marwick Says:

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcherjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:20 am

Megaloptera McWars Says:

It's possible for any individual and institution in existence to run out of money, dolt.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 am

Republicans Love Facts Says:

"We need more revenues." obama just today
Hmm, where's those "revenues" gonna come from, obama?javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 am

joe cantwell Says:

Republicans Love Facts Says:
"We need more revenues." obama just today
Hmm, where's those "revenues" gonna come from, obama?
...
stick with newt!
:)javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:34 am

ranus69 Says:

Thanks Mr. Faiz Shakir.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:35 am

Megaloptera McWars Says:

Republicans Love Facts Says:
"We need more revenues." obama just today
Hmm, where's those "revenues" gonna come from, obama?
That sawed-off cola can, you WILL mail to the IRS, bucko!
Or do you feign concern for the 27th-floor billionaires, who I'm sure are your bestest friends.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:38 am

joe cantwell Says:

...
bff's!
:)javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:44 am

pags2 Says:

The Republicans are grasping for straws to get the public to defeat the plan. The Republicans cannot afford to be seen as obstructing health care with so many people in favor of the public option. If they vote against the Dem plan, they stand to lose a lot of votes from their own party and the middle of the road voters, in addition to the potential 40 million votes from the uninsured. If they vote in favor of the Dem plan, it means they have to sell the lobbyists for the insurance industry down the river and lose campaign contributions. It is a no win situation for the Republicans. If they can get the public to torpedo the health care plan then the Republicans can force a compromise on health care and vote in favor of health care reform without losing the insurance lobby.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:56 am

Game of Life Says:

Oval12345678 aka James K. Sayre barfs:
Hmm, some good news, no doubt... It's too bad that MSNBC had to totally black-out the Keith O. show today and force-feed more of this seemingly endless crap about a pop star who passed away a week ago, now. Enough already,
YOU ARE OT.
Go directly to hell.
I bet you can't get enough of elvis presley and marilyn monroe. Both are junkies, one is a music interloper and the other a ho.
R.I.P dear Michaeljavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:18 am

mgparrish Says:

spencers mom Says:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OutstandingInAPlagueOfLocusts Says:
$60 billion a year sounds like a bargain.
Unless I read this completely wrong, that $600 billion is the total cost for ten years, not per year
That would equal $1200 USD per year per person. 60 Billion per year div by 50 million uninsured.
***********************
Wow that is a bargain, being that in Ottawa Canada (non profit healthcare) it costs $5,200 per person CND ($4522.96 USD)
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=e0eb6a52-3735-40ba-84ec-5bc58b9bc524
If you take the original figures from the CBO the math seems to be more realistic. DO THE MATH
javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:25 am

[Austin Heller]

Game of Life Says:

evangenital Says:
The repiggies will fight the public option tooth and nail. They are only concerned with the comfort and well-being of their insurance buddies.
Please don't ever vote for that repiggie trash ever again, not even for local office.
They are all in on this crap, and you can't trust them, no matter how friendly or accessible some of them might appear to be.
They are all lying crooks.
For real.
The internet revealed what I/we knew about the teabaggers. I don't understand why they put American citizens (and others) in harm way, whether it's wars, the economy, the air, the water, every damn thing.
I'm so sick of the three stooges' mentality of the teabag repugs.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:27 am

joe cantwell Says:

...
drill baby drill.
the sandy sanford story.
:|javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:29 am

art03 Says:

kennedy ltr
http://www.ourfuture.org/files/HELP_Dear_Colleague_on_Title_I.pdfjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:40 am

researcher Says:

a national shame for america not having universal health care for its citizens.
national shame
we have money for our wars for profits but not for medical insurance for our people
this says it all about the american mentality of profits over people
capitalism can turn a culture into greed and materialism
we americans are living proof of that.
please anyone that thinks we are a christian nation is living in an illusion.
we are a nation of greed and materialism and individualismjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:44 am

Keith Says:

marwick,
I lived in Britain for eight years under Maggie Thatcher and she was really really hated by a large percentage of the population for doing as much harm as she could to wages, benefits, and the National Healt System. She would not dare propose doing away with their "single-payer", but she certainly tried to make it worse and more expensive. She never won more than 45% of the vote. The two left-of-center parties (Labour & Liberal-Democrat) always won the rest.
marwick Says:
Costs will skyrocket. You can't just add 50-million non-paying members to the health care system without somebody else (aka "YOU") having to pay the tab.
YES you CAN! Every other developed country in the world does, therefore you can! It is because our current system is a bureaucratic nightmare. A fully single-payer would save us $350-$400 Billion every year in paperwork.
http://www.pnhp.org/blog/2009/04/28/a-funeral-dirge-for-private-health-insurance/
"The new system will spread risk among the entire U.S. population. Care will be publicly funded, but privately delivered. People will go to the doctor and hospital of their choice. By eliminating the fragmentation and waste of our multi-payer system, the single-payer system will yield administrative cost savings – estimated at $350 billion annually – sufficient to provide comprehensive and quality care to everyone and to eliminate all co-pays and deductibles."javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:45 am

Game of Life Says:

marwick Says:
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher
The UK has free medical services.
You don't know the meaning of socialism and socialism is damn better than the imperialistic system we have in place now.
Look how easy your chimpy f0ucked up everything. I bet you love that.
I rather spend MY money on bettering the world, especially the US. chimpy didn't have a problem when it came to NASA and unjust wars, the money flows for his unnecessary projects, killing people and decimating countries.
You will be left behind (thank God) with the rest of the idiots.
Making people well shouldn't be money driven.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:48 am

[Austin Heller]

Keith Says:

Game of Life, that's what I tried to tell it.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:49 am

Game of Life Says:

Good points Keith!javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 am

piltdown Says:

Oval12345678 aka James K. Sayre Says:
Hmm, some good news, no doubt... It's too bad that MSNBC had to totally black-out the Keith O. show today and force-feed more of this seemingly endless crap about a pop star who passed away a week ago, now. Enough already, MSNBC: this ain't the weekend when you happily serve up stupid nonsense about prisons and sex slaves...
No kidding. Even TV Guide network stopped with the 24/7 Jackson coverage.
Maybe my letter to their VP of communications was one of thousands. I'm glad I wrote it.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:56 am

Keith Says:

I don't know if the CBO could really include all the financial benefits of everyone having good healthcare. Health increases revenues. Illness and disability are burdens on the economy and the federal balance sheet. A million bankruptcies are also costly, etc.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 am

Zooey Says:

marwick Says:
Who wants to bet their family's health on the reliability of a "government estimate?"
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:05 am
Many of us are already betting our families' health on expensive, unreliable health insurance policies. I doubt we'd do worse with the public option.
**** off.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 am

mgparrish Says:

Game of Life Says:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
marwick Says:
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher
The UK has free medical services.
You don't know the meaning of socialism and socialism is damn better than the imperialistic system we have in place now.
****************************
THE UK HAS FREE MEDICAL SERVICES?
You mean you don't pay for it indirectly through much higher taxation? Or do you get it really free as a gift from Santa or the Tooth Fairy?javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 am

Peashooter Says:

Liar republican lobby slaves eating their words, encouraging...
Hospitals, Doctors, and, clinics getting paid what they deserve, not what they want, relieving....
Insurance executives on the corner holding "work for food" signs....PRICELESS!javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 am

piltdown Says:

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:
Osarah bin Palin continues to perverse the Flag:
http://www.runnersworld.com/photo/sarahpalin/images/sarahpalin_200908_477x600_7.jpg
*not photoshopped*
The shadows are totally screwed up. Whoever did that shop didn't do a very good job.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:04 am

[Austin Heller]

Keith Says:

mgparrish,
Yes the British "pay" for their healthcare, but they like every other developed country in the world pay HALF OR LESS per capita compared to the US. And the US has 47,000,000 paying nothing cause they got nothing.
Read my link at #58, the physicians say we would save $350 Billion annually in paperwork.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:16 am

Keith Says:

The shadows are totally screwed up. Whoever did that shop didn't do a very good job.
Also did L.H. Oswald in backyard with rifle.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:17 am

had enough Says:

John McCain: “[The CBO estimate] should be a wake up call for all of us to scrap the current bill and start over in a true bipartisan fashion.”
John Boehner: “[T]he public option would cost over $1 trillion, and would cause 23 million Americans to lose ...
20,000 to 40,000 die each year due to lack of access to health care. I have personally witnessed respected hard working souls meet their demise because they were not able to get health insurance. And we have these F-ing GOP freaks looking for any excuse to stall or get rid of the idea of a public health insurance system - because as we all know it would be the death of their party. In no way do I trust the existing insurance co's to change their ways. Their actions have been murderous since the early 80's when the for profit nonsense began under Reagan.
I no longer want to live in a country so calloused some can look the other way when the despair of another becomes reality.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:45 am

mgparrish Says:

Keith Says:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mgparrish,
Yes the British "pay" for their healthcare, but they like every other developed country in the world pay HALF OR LESS per capita compared to the US. And the US has 47,000,000 paying nothing cause they got nothing.
Read my link at #58, the physicians say we would save $350 Billion annually in paperwork
*****************
So are you implying that IF that $350 Billion figure is accurate that is how the govt. will be able to cover the existing uninsured for only $100 per month per person?
Certainly paperwork reduction can produce savings ... reality check, look at the cost of care in Canada. It's cheaper than here but they do ration.
I know lot's of smart folks up there in Canada so one would think that since having a single payer plan up there for around 50 yrs. that they sought out ways to make the process as inexpensive as possible?
I think they have computers up there and looked to standardize paperwork since the govt. is the single payer?
Or are we here in the US the only ones clever enough to reduce 3/4 of the costs just through efficient Information Systems?
If you believe any politican that says we can cover the uninsured for $100 a month per person I got a used car I would like to sell you.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:57 am

Max Anax junius -1 Says:

[Austin Heller]

W A N T
C O N G R E S S
C A R E ?
AMA open to government-funded health insurance option
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/07/01/AMA.health.care.reform/index.html?eref=rss_politics
(CNN) -- The new president of the American Medical Association, which represents the interests of the nation's doctors, said Wednesday the group is open to a government-funded health insurance option for people without coverage.
Dr. J. James Rohack told CNN the AMA supports an "American model" that includes both "a private system and a public system, working together."
In May, the AMA told a Senate committee it did not support a government-sponsored public health insurance option.
"The AMA does not believe that creating a public health insurance option ... is the best way to expand health insurance coverage and lower costs across the health care system," the organization wrote, explaining that a public insurance plan could lead to "an explosion of costs that would need to be absorbed by taxpayers."
Rohack, who recently became AMA president, suggested Wednesday that the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program available to Congress members and other federal employees could be expanded as a public option. That would avoid having to create a new program from scratch, he said.
"If it's good enough for Congress, why shouldn't it be good enough for individuals who don't have health insurance provided by their employers?" Rohack said.
(continued/video)
javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:13 am

[Austin Heller]

piltdown Says:

mgparrish Says:
You mean you don't pay for it indirectly through much higher taxation? Or do you get it really free as a gift from Santa or the Tooth Fairy?
You pay for it with the money you DON'T have to spend on premiums each month. In fact, you'd save money.
If you WANT to spend more, go ahead.
And hey, your company won't have to kick in half of your health care anymore, so maybe with the money THEY'LL be saving, they can give you a raise!javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:16 am

mgparrish Says:

had enough Says:
In no way do I trust the existing insurance co's to change their ways. Their actions have been murderous since the early 80's when the for profit nonsense began under Reagan.
*****************
Reagan created the "for profit" healthcare system?
http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/thomasson.insurance.health.us
Refer to:
1940-1960: Growth in the Health Insurance Marketjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:17 am

Max Anax junius -1 Says:

.
Sorry, FAT ELEPHANT time...
ACLU Says Government Used False Confessions
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070103477.html
By Del Quentin Wilber
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 2, 2009
The American Civil Liberties Union yesterday accused the Obama administration of using statements elicited through torture to justify the confinement of a detainee it represents at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
The ACLU is asking a federal judge to throw out those statements and others made by Mohammed Jawad, an Afghan who may have been as young as 12 when he was captured. His attorney argued that Jawad was abused in U.S. custody, threatened and subjected to intense sleep deprivation.
"The government's continued reliance on evidence gained by torture and other abuse violates centuries of U.S. law and suggests the current administration is not really serious about breaking with the past," said ACLU lawyer Jonathan Hafetz, who is representing Jawad in a lawsuit challenging his detention.
(continued)
javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:18 am

[Austin Heller]

mgparrish Says:

piltdown Says:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mgparrish Says:
You mean you don't pay for it indirectly through much higher taxation? Or do you get it really free as a gift from Santa or the Tooth Fairy?
You pay for it with the money you DON'T have to spend on premiums each month. In fact, you'd save money.
If you WANT to spend more, go ahead.
And hey, your company won't have to kick in half of your health care anymore, so maybe with the money THEY'LL be saving, they can give you a raise!
*******
First and foremost you know nothing about my situation.
The fact is I don't want to spend more money. Reality is many companies will be dumping insurance away from their employees and back on the govt. If they pay the $750 a year fee the govt will impose on them that is clear bargain for them. No brainer to save about $8000 a year or more per employee. This bill does not guarantee employers to keep insuring their employess, it gives them incentives not to.
And if you believe they will give that same amount back in additional compensation maybe I should sell you a used car too. Rest assured I will pay more than I do now.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:30 am

piltdown Says:

"Reality is many companies will be dumping insurance away from their employees and back on the govt. "
And if the HMOs want to stay in business, they'll be scrambling to give you fire-sale prices to compete and pull some of the customers into their higher-tiered care.
They will still want your money, and will be doing a LOT of deal-making to get it. Your prices will drop dramatically.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 4:43 am

piltdown Says:

Keith Says:
Also did L.H. Oswald in backyard with rifle.
Ok, I LOL'd.
Now you've got me looking for other hidden stuff in there too.
And I'll give you more credit than it sounded like on that last comment. It's a cute pic, I couldn't do better myself, but the angles on the shadows made my eyes go all wonky when I looked at it.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 am

[Austin Heller]

mgparrish Says:

The average "for profit" healthcare industry wide makes about 10 - 11% after all expenses.
http://www.healthinsurancecolorado.net/blog1/2009/06/08/profitability-and-the-health-insurance-industry/
http://www.bizstats.com/reports/corp.asp?industry=Miscellaneous+health+care+and+social+assistance&profType=income&var=&coding=62.5
If you remove profit it **will not** reduce prices dramatically.
Some savings yes, but I refer again back to **real** costs in Canada. If you believe the US govt. will be able to cover the uninsured for $100 per month person by removing profit in the govt. plan and forcing cheaper "competition" I would still like to sell that used car.
It would only drive the "for profit" companies out of businees but not have any significant effect on REAL prices. Private companies cannot "print" their own money and run budget deficits.
Govt. can only lower prices of health care by rationing, this is proven world wide. In the rare cases where there is little rationing in other countries it is because the tax burden is much much higher than here.
And what makes you think this would be any different from Medicare or Medicade? They just keep stockpiling more debt for those programs. They can't fix the cost problems there ... so why should this be different?javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:18 am

spencers mom Says:

mgparrish Says:
The average "for profit" healthcare industry wide makes about 10 - 11% after all expenses.
Right. After all expenses.
Expenses which include huge executive compensation packages, lush offices, all expense paid junkets. Not to mention sales and marketing.
And each healthplan has it's own CEO, CFO, COO, CIO, it's own layers of VPs, Directors, Managers, it's own legal and marketing depts, it's own IT system. Each has it's own "utlization management" dept, provider network contracting and relations dept. Not to mention the services the plans capitate out to labs, physician groups (IPAs, PPOs)and other ancillary provider groups, who also have their own all of the above.
And then there are the Blues (Cross and Shield) who are supposedly not-for-profits, who pay no taxes and shield profits as "cash reserves" while denying coverage and benefits the same as the for-profits.
And this doesn't even begin to touch on the profits of BigPharma.
What it all comes down to is that approx. $.40 of each dollar paid into private insurance is used to pay the actual providers of care. It's about damn time the AMA wakes up to reality. Now it's time for congress to do the same.
PEACEjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:47 am

kasinca Says:

mgparrish Says:
If you remove profit it **will not** reduce prices dramatically.
---------------------------------------------------------
You forget that profit is revenue less operating expense and G&A expense. General and Administrative Expense includes firt of of all salaries and bonuses as well as rents etc. There is much more to play with than the 10-11% profit left over. They also control the operating loss by deciding what claims they will not pay. You have a very simple minded and elementary understanding of how it works.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:13 am

tb1973 Says:

The stupidity of the american voter never surprises me.
Nationalized healthcare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL there are no provisions in the constitution that allow the FEDERAL govnmt to even begin to debate this. This is not a DEM. or REP. issue because ALL of the congressional members are there to MAKE MONEY from us.
This bill is a reminder of the unconstitutional, crappy legislation Roosevelt put through during the depression era that is still haunting us to this day. It will do nothing but pad politician pockets and hurt EVERY citizen.
Several states have already tried this approach, Hawaii being the most recent, and NONE of those states were able to handle the budget and eventually eliminated the programs. everyone should realize that when congress gives us the initial bill it is ALWAYS half of what the REAL cost is going to be.
Our congressmen should be looking at the REAL problems of health care, like the high cost of malpractice insurance, and other programs that make healthcare prices outrages , THE FDA.
WAKEUP PEOPLE QUIT LOOKING AT THINGS ALONG PARTY LINES THE WAY THE CONGRESS WANTS YOU TO, AND LOOK AT WHAT THE REAL PROBLEMS ARE LIKE THE IDIOTS THAT WE KEEP ELECTING WHO ARE PADDING THEIR POCKETS AND BECOMING LIFETIME MEMBERS. EVERYTIME THEY VOTE WE GET ONE STEP TOWARDS COMMUNISM.
The power is supposed to be in the states, however, the states are being bullied and overpowered by the federal govnmt and ruining our freedoms.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:32 am

spencers mom Says:

tb1973 Says:
WAKEUP PEOPLE QUIT LOOKING AT THINGS ALONG PARTY LINES THE WAY THE CONGRESS WANTS YOU TO...EVERYTIME THEY VOTE WE GET ONE STEP TOWARDS COMMUNISM.
Yeah, that's not a "party line".
Step away from your AM radio. Turn off FuxNews. You can thank me later.
PEACEjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:52 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

tb1973 Says:
Nationalized healthcare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL there are no provisions in the constitution that allow the FEDERAL govnmt to even begin to debate this
No, wrong....completely. Because it's not written in the Constitution, doesn't make it Unconstitutional. Where in the Constitution does it say that?
Fail...completely.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:53 am

[Austin Heller]

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

tb1973 Says:
This bill is a reminder of the unconstitutional, crappy legislation Roosevelt put through during the depression era that is still haunting us to this day.
By "haunting", you mean helping million and millions of Americans which resulted in 40 years of Democratic dominance. The only reason why you terrorist anti-American scum hated the New Deal is because Americans loved it and because it proved you reich-wing scum are wrong.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:54 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

tb1973 Says:
The stupidity of the american [sic] voter never surprises me.
Thanks for proving that you teabagging terrorist anti-American reich-wingers really do hate this country and Americans.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:55 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

mgparrish Says:
Certainly paperwork reduction can produce savings ... reality check, look at the cost of care in Canada. It's cheaper than here but they do ration.
Provide proof that Canada has to ration.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:58 am

spencers mom Says:

Dr. Matt, there is no provision in the Constitution for air traffic control! Quick, shut it down! In fact, there is nothing in the Costitution that allows airplanes to fly, or cars to be driven. Our Constitution doesn't even mention the internets, let alone radio and TV. No phones, either.
Of course, there is also no mention of private insurance of any kind in the Constitution so allowing private healthcare to continue is just damn unAmerican!
I guess that argument wasn't so great, was it?
PEACEjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:00 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

spencers mom, there is nothing in the Constitution about water treatment plants, fire departments, the U.S. Air Force, the country-wide electrical infrastructure, trash collection, waterboarding prisoners, and conservatism.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:05 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

Oh yeah, and the U.S. Coast Guard is unconstitutional too....javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:08 am

CageyCretin Says:

There is nothing in the constitution about marriage being between "one woman and one man", so all marriages are unconstitutional.
(wheeee!!!! Isn't this fun?)javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:21 am

[Austin Heller]

spencers mom Says:

There's nothing in the Constitution banning gay marriage, so I guess that makes it as legal as "opposite marriage" now!
Whew! Glad we got that problem solved!
PEACEjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:24 am

jrzguy Says:

I will fully support public health care.....right after every congressman and senator promises to use it also. But they won't. Why is that? If its good enough for us why not them? I want Obama and Nancy Pelosi to wait for a doctors appointment just as long as my aging parent will have to wait.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:27 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

Right to bear arms......constitutional. Bullets.....unconstitutional.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:28 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

jrzguy Says:
I will fully support public health care.....right after every congressman and senator promises to use it also.
Every US politician already has universal health care, numbnuts.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:29 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

jrzguy Says:
I want Obama and Nancy Pelosi to wait for a doctors appointment just as long as my aging parent will have to wait.
If you believe your parents do not wait for appointment presently, you're a either liar or stupid....or both.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:31 am

spencers mom Says:

Every government employee has a public health plan, as does every member of the military, every senior and every disabled person. Hell, employer-paid healthcare is partially funded by the government because it is fully tax deductible to the employer.
There is just so much concern out there today.
PEACEjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:36 am

[Austin Heller]

VerbalKint Says:

mgparrish Says: (...bunch 'o propaganda brought to you by the private health insurance industry and their Big Pharma allies...)
Let me guess: you work for a PR firm representing the health insurance industry.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:36 am

VerbalKint Says:

b1973 Says:
"The stupidity of the american voter never surprises me. Nationalized healthcare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL"
Rather bold to accuse others of stupidity, then launch into one of the stupidest comments ever posted on the internet.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:38 am

[Austin Heller]

jrzguy Says:

Dr. Hussein Matt
Every US politician already has universal health care, numbnuts.
That's a joke right?
http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:39 am

jimmcdosh Says:

Yeah Yeah Yeah, I will believe it when I see it! Medical lobbyists have lawmakers in their hip pockets!
RT
Online Privacy when it Countsjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:40 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

VerbalKint Says:
Rather bold to accuse others of stupidity, then launch into one of the stupidest comments ever posted on the internet.
This is what happens when teabaggers quote their am hate radio heros like Mike Church and Insean Vannity. Teabagging terrorists are too lazy to learn something on their own; instead, they just quote word-for-word everything they hear on Faux and am hate radio.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:40 am

jrzguy Says:

So we'll all get the same choice they get?javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:41 am

VerbalKint Says:

We spend twice as much as other developed countries on health care, yet achieve worse health outcomes by most measures. This sounds like failure to me, yet Republicans somehow count it as a success. Indeed, Republicans seem to equate failure with success as a matter of ideological principle.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:41 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

jrzguy Says:
Dr. Hussein Matt
Every US politician already has universal health care, numbnuts.
That's a joke right?
http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/
No, not at all. Try again....that's the health plan for Federal Employees and their families, which is not the universal health care plan afforded to U.S. politicians. Try again....javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:42 am

Dr. Hussein Matt Says:

jrzguy Says:
So we'll all get the same choice they get?
Hopefully better.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:44 am

VerbalKint Says:

jrzguy Says:
So we'll all get the same choice they get?
What you want, clearly, is failure. You are a Republican, and Republicans crave failure. Fortunately, however, your political party is rapidly shrinking to its core of hate-filled racists and assorted sociopaths, and soon will lack the political power to thwart success.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:45 am

Perry logan Says:

Isn't it ironic that government turns out to be the only solution for all the problems we created by treating government as the problem?
Heritage Foundation report reveals Torture is GOOD for You.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:03 am

Roark Says:

I have to say, I'm getting a pretty good laugh out of reading all of these comments. I have rarely seen such immaturity and anger. It's actually impossible to take any one of you seriously. Yesterday I tried to have a discussion with some of you and all that is returned is ad hominem attacks. I was hoping to find some civil liberals (as I was sure I could find at least some) and I thought that I had. However, after reading over these comments, even the one liberal poster who I thought was perhaps mature enough to have a normal conversation regarding differing opinions appears to fit in perfectly with the rest of you.
Hey, didn't a quasi-troll this morning propose eliminating the FDA and Medicare/Medicaid for a reform plan?
-Megaloptera
Of course, I proposed this. And after giving reason for this belief I was promptly ignored by Mega (that is until I was called a "troll"), the commenter Katy responded, albeit with a simple-minded ad hominem attack but a response none-the-less.
Here's a hint for you liberals, you will be much more effective in your persuasion if you cut out the anger and the meaningless nicknames like repiggies, and repugs. Not only does this show your clear ignorance (as not everyone who disagrees with you is a republican) but it shows a particular lack of articulation.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:04 am

[Austin Heller]

spencers mom Says:

Here's a hint for you liberals, you will be much more effective in your persuasion if...
On behalf of many in the community, we thank you for your concern.
And here's a hint right back: It is difficult to take seriously a post that includes both "simple-minded ad hominem attack" and "you liberals".
PEACEjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:11 am

Roark Says:

Oh, Spencers Mom, you make it to easy.
If you read back over my post the words simple minded described the comment made by katy and not katy herself. Nice try! Next time, some deduction would serve you well.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:14 am

Wayne Says:

Shorter Roark: "Waaaaa! Liberals are meanies."javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:18 am

Roark Says:

"I have rarely seen such immaturity..."
-Roark
"Shorter Roark: "Waaaaa! Liberals are meanies."
-Wayne
Thank you Wayne for proving my point so succinctly.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:22 am

spencers mom Says:

Oh, Spencers Mom, you make it to [sic] easy.
Roark, you object to what you perceive as "a simple-minded ad hominem attack" then go on to state "you liberals... show your clear ignorance... [and] lack of articulation."
And you make it too easy, but again, thank you for your concern.
PEACEjavascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:23 am

jrzguy Says:

Dr. Hussein Matt
No, not at all. Try again....that's the health plan for Federal Employees and their families, which is not the universal health care plan afforded to U.S. politicians. Try again....
you sir are very uninformed. Even when someone shows you the truth you choose to stay stupid. Read on.....
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-06-23-congress-benefits_N.htm
read it all...pay particular attention to the seventh paragraph.javascript:void(0)
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:25 am