Has God Abandoned Us, Or was God Never Here in the First Place?

[Qoais]

Which takes us back full circle to a question I've been asking for ages - what is a god?  Why did people start such a thing as "worship".  I think it's because we were told to.  Whoever they were that came here, were so advanced that THEY taught earth's indiginous hominids to worship them. 

[Robert0326]

I think that the creation of God or Gods, bible, the Koran and all the other religious tests was an attempt at the first scientific explanation for how the creation of the earth and all living.  It was the only way the people of the time could understand why and how.  Now that we are in the 21st. century and with a greater understanding of the scientific process and how we, the earth and the universe was created, why do we still believe in a God or Gods?

[Volitzer]

I think that the creation of God or Gods, bible, the Koran and all the other religious tests was an attempt at the first scientific explanation for how the creation of the earth and all living.  It was the only way the people of the time could understand why and how.  Now that we are in the 21st. century and with a greater understanding of the scientific process and how we, the earth and the universe was created, why do we still believe in a God or Gods?

Who so you think started it all ?

[Robert0326]

Who do I think started it all?  Man created God/Gods in his/her attempt to explain the nature of the universe and why and how we became who and what we are.  I thought I said that in my last post but here it is again.

[Qoais]

If I had never been taught about God, if I had lived, say, in the wilderness like the native Indians I don't think I would have come up with something like "Gods".  I think I would have thought there were tree spirits, wind spirits, rain spirits, that sort of thing.  But I doubt very much I would ever have come up with "worship" of a deity - a something I couldn't see or feel or sense.  In other words, whatever I admired about nature and thought made nature "be", I would never come up with the idea of "gods" or to worship such a thing.  I would definitely respect everything I saw around me, and try to live in harmony with it.  But to think there might be a bigger, smarter, or powerful being of some sort that created everything, and that I should pray to it and worship it?  I'd never dream that up in a million years.  T'aint natural!!

[Whitney]

Who do I think started it all?  Man created God/Gods in his/her attempt to explain the nature of the universe and why and how we became who and what we are.  I thought I said that in my last post but here it is again.

I think he meant, how was the universe created, not the idea of God.  I think most people would admit that a lot of variables had to fall into place for everything to have been just an accident, with nothing guiding the creativity.

[Qoais]

Right.  How the universe was created.  Ok.  Let's pretend we live out in the bush and it's about 10,000 years ago.  You look up at night and see the stars and what?  A lightbulb comes on and you realize there's some great "thing" out there and you suddenly get this overwhelming urge to get down on your knees and pray (make a speech to) this "something"?  And you think to yourself "ok, I'll call this great something God.  I will tell myself and my children that this great something make the sky, and the stars in it, and the sun and the moon, and the wind and the lightning and the earth and the grass and the trees, etc. etc. etc.   I don't think so.  I think the ancient people would have looked at each and every thing as a marvel unto itself.  Not that some super power created it.  And then to develop this simple thought into the complicated and pompous religions we have today?  Nah.  Somebody taught us this stuff.

For instance - why is it that we get down on our knees to pray?  Why don't we do like the ancient native Indians, and stand atop a high ridge and make respectful signs to the four corners of the earth?  What is this business of abasing ourselves by getting down on our knees?  Because we were told to.  Probably from day one, we were forced to our knees to show respect for whoever was messing with our DNA.  It's not a natural position for a person to take. 

I totally agree about the planned design of everything.  It's just too flippin complicated for it to happen without a plan  Just simple things to me are mind boggling.  Like - look at a flower up close.  How the hell does it turn out so perfect time after time and how does a pansy know to be a pansy and not a marigold unless someone planned it all?  Never mind how the hell the planets hang out in the solar system!!

[Robert0326]

Right.  How the universe was created.  Ok.  Let's pretend we live out in the bush and it's about 10,000 years ago.  You look up at night and see the stars and what?  A lightbulb comes on and you realize there's some great "thing" out there and you suddenly get this overwhelming urge to get down on your knees and pray (make a speech to) this "something"?  And you think to yourself "ok, I'll call this great something God.  I will tell myself and my children that this great something make the sky, and the stars in it, and the sun and the moon, and the wind and the lightning and the earth and the grass and the trees, etc. etc. etc.   I don't think so.  I think the ancient people would have looked at each and every thing as a marvel unto itself.  Not that some super power created it.  And then to develop this simple thought into the complicated and pompous religions we have today?  Nah.  Somebody taught us this stuff.

But that's exactly what they did.

[Volitzer]

There are a race of beings called the Havenites who have seen this Supreme Being in between Space and the Nuosphere, guiding creation.

Read the book Co-Evolution by Alex LeWald

If Earth humanity ever travels space we will eventually see God too.

[Qoais]

Yes Robert, that's what I'm saying.  THAT's what they did until someone taught them otherwise. It's a natural way of evolving in respect for mother nature.  All the ancient texts say humanity started over in Mesopotamia , the near East, and Africa.  Supposedly, also, we have existed for 190,000 years, and yet it's only been in the last 5,000 or so that we've come any farther than using stones for tools.  Supposedly, the Americas were untampered with back in the day when someone WAS tampering and the native American Indians were going along in a natural manner, with none of this pomp and ceremony developed by the Europeans.  So, who taught people to get down on their knees and worship another human being?  Because if we are created in their image and they did screw with our DNA, they were human, and so are we.  And why call those other people "gods"?  Because we were taught to.

[Robert0326]

So are you saying that God is an alien?

[Karissa Oleyanin]

So how do you think the universe was created if there was no God?

[Qoais]

I really hate having to put labels on things.  The word "god" is a label rather than a name.  Alien is a label, rather than a race.

OK.  I believe the universes and everything in them was created by something - but whatever that something was/is, it's so far beyond our comprehension, that we couldn't even begin to fathom what "it" might be.  I suspect, that when we die and enter a higher plane of vibration, we will understand a lot better what this creator being is/was, but in this physical body, in this dense plane, we can only THINK we know.  (note - when I say "God" I am not talking about Jesus Christ)

IF the Bible is correct in saying God created us in his likeness, then I (me personally) assume that the likeness is not in the fleshy body, but the mindal frame, or spiritual one, if you will, where we can remember everything we ever learned in all our lifetimes, we can create life - as in make it manifest, and so forth.  I don't think our physical bodies are a copy of God's image, since he supposedly has never lived on earth, and therefore has not had a physical body.  This body and this planet were designed for the purpose of allowing souls to enter into the physical plane, that they have an opportunity to learn the lessons necessary for their soul to continue on it's educational journey. 

I don't know if I can express what it is I'm trying to say.  To me, the "god" of religions is not what I call the "creator of the universes".  The God/gods that are written about in the ancient texts, are not the "creator of the universes".  The gods from the ancient texts were tangible.  They interbred with humans.  Yet supposedly, Moses himself  could not even look upon the face of God, he had to turn away when God passed by him. Why was that?  Where's the logic?  No.  The gods of the olden times, were real - they came from somewhere in the "heavens", upgraded us and taught us how to farm, make tools, draw pictures etc., and in  return, they also taught us to bend our knees to their superiority, to worship them, to beg favours from them, to make offerings to them (in other words to suckhole to them) and if we did enough of it, they would grant our wish.  On the other hand, if they were in a bad mood that day, forgedaboudit!!!! The other side won the war!!!  So in this respect - no - God is not an alien because we carry his DNA since his children bred with humans' children.  (However, this also means that this God who is our "father in heaven" is not the creator of the universes and everything in them). 

Then we have Jesus Christ - who, from what is written, taught that all of that was not necessary because the real God did not require any of it.  The real God did not want you burning your best ram or your best bull in a stinky ceremony that proved exactly nothing except that you were totally gullible and believed a spiritual being could actually eat the smoke or something that rose to the heavens when the thing was being burned.  You sure have to give those priests credit for being smart and getting the best of everything for themselves, that's for sure.  Now, the part I have trouble with about Jesus, is, he's still giving human attributes to an entity that isn't human.  He says God is jealous, God would get angry, God will punish, etc.  And yet this God supposedly loves you.  It's a total contradiction in terms.  God is Love.  He cannot be hate, he cannot be cruelty, he cannot be jealousy, etc.  Therefore, whoever Jesus is talking about, is not the God that I believe created the Universes and everything in them.  These things are much too petty and are human attributes ( and some animals have them as well!) and are totally mis-applied to the entity "God", the creator.  What Jesus tried to teach was light years above what humans believed in at the time, but to think that God would be cruel to his own creations?  Do you see what I'm saying?  What Jesus is saying is that this God he's talking about is still using blackmail to make us love him.  Doesn't cut it with me. 

For me, I have a direct link within myself to whatever created me and if I try to live by the Golden Rule, and I mean really work at it as it is a lot of work, then, my soul is satisfied.  People ask, why does God let the people in Africa suffer?  What must be realized is that the god people are praying to, the one described in the Bible is gone.  He disappeared after Moses died.  Who led Moses out of Egypt?  Why would God who created EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE pick favorites?  He didn't.  That's a man made story about someone Moses called God and who he believed would lead him to a promised land of milk and honey.  Why should anyone else suffer just because Moses wanted a rich land to live in?  Why should Jerico fall, and Moses come out unscathed?  Not logical.  It's one man's story about a super being he believed in would help him found a dynasty in a new land and in the end, that same egalomaniac denied Moses entry into the promised land anyway for some assumed slight.  Do you honestly believe, that an entity that could create universes and everything in them, could be bothered with such pettiness?  Do you honestly think that a being of love and light could do those things?

The earth has already been created, and everything that happens in it, on it, and around it, has already been created and set in motion.  The sun is in place, the planets are in place, the landmasses exist, and the waters are there, fresh and salty both. The weather patterns are set, the energies of the cosmos are in place.  The "schoolroom" is ready.
 

[Qoais]

The things that have been set in motion, the program that was written, for this planet and everything on it, is a school.  In school, we took many subjects, and then when we got to high school, we chose what subjects we wanted to continue with.  If we didn't like science, we didn't go into the lab, BUT the lab was there for those who DID want to take science.

When the soul incarnates, it plans ahead of time what classes it needs to take to learn the lessons it requires to continue it's journey of spiritual enlightenment (I am not talking about religion here - I am talking raising the mind to higher realizations).  Some souls need to learn suffering, some souls need to be in a place where they can repay their karmic debt by experiencing what suffering they have caused others somewhere along the line, and some come to suffer (what we would call extreme hardship) to gain double in this experience.  Doing double duty as it were.  Some souls realize they need to suffer severely to get their mind to focus on the ultimate goal.  The ultimate goal is letting go of materiality and raising oneself spiritually untill they CAN stand in the prescence of their maker once again as an equal.

If there was no place on earth to experience that suffering, how would the soul achieve it's required education?  It's like not having a school.  We may not remember in this lifetime, WHY we came here, or what lessons we were supposed to learn, but really THAT is THE whole point.  If one DOES apply themselves  - in totally living the golden rule - and in raising his conscious awareness, they DO realize that they've come for the lessons they are learning and they DO realize the school wouldn't be complete if it didn't offer all the courses necessary.  So yes, we have starvation, we have earthquakes, we have storms and we haved trials and tribulations, constantly.  That's what it's all about.  And it's not just to learn the hard stuff.  Although who is to say what's hard and what's easy?  Some have to come to actually experience love.  To know what it feels like to have someone love you and for you to love them back and what that really means.  Someone may have a rich and wonderful lifestyle, but they are still in school.  They are still learning. 

We think we are suffering for a long time, when we experience a lifetime, but in the overall existance of the soul, it is only a nanosecond.

[Harconen]