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Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege

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Author Topic: Health Care Is a Right, Not a Privilege  (Read 1266 times)
Robert0326
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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2009, 05:27:46 pm »

Gov't Health-care = Eugenics
Wrong.  Government health care = good for all Americans.

Canada has government health care and are they running Eugenics experiments?  Nooooooooo.  Tom is right about the powerful lobbying that the pharmaceutical and insurance companies put forth in Washington. 
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Blasphemy is a victimless crime.
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."     Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 -Thomas Jefferson
Volitzer
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« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2009, 12:56:25 pm »

Gov't Health-care = Eugenics
Wrong.  Government health care = good for all Americans.

Canada has government health care and are they running Eugenics experiments?  Nooooooooo.  Tom is right about the powerful lobbying that the pharmaceutical and insurance companies put forth in Washington. 


Then go to Canada and be put on a waiting list for treatment and pray you don't die while you are waiting for treatment.   Tongue
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Robert0326
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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2009, 01:11:18 pm »

Wow man, is common sense and reason THAT foreign to you.  IF we do adopt Gov. health care and everyone keeps the same doctors and plans they have what is the problem with that?  But if you want to cry about cost or how we're going to pay for it, whether it's though taxes or whatever, aren't we paying for health care already through individual companies?  And if we pay the Gov. through our taxes and ends up being cheaper then wouldn't that be a good thing.  Anyways, that's my idea for Gov. health care.
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Blasphemy is a victimless crime.
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."     Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 -Thomas Jefferson
Volitzer
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« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2009, 03:31:10 am »

Wow man, is common sense and reason THAT foreign to you.  IF we do adopt Gov. health care and everyone keeps the same doctors and plans they have what is the problem with that?  But if you want to cry about cost or how we're going to pay for it, whether it's though taxes or whatever, aren't we paying for health care already through individual companies?  And if we pay the Gov. through our taxes and ends up being cheaper then wouldn't that be a good thing.  Anyways, that's my idea for Gov. health care.

The problem is that when you get into it does the responsible health nut deserve to pay the same cost as someone who drinks aspartame colas will probably have liver cancer and whose treatment plan will drive up health costs ??  Do you think smokers really won't mind paying their fair share ?

Let's face it, the reason doctors charge so much is cuz Americans are so un-healthy.

Look at Osteoporosis, taking arginine and lysine for 2 months will solve 90% of the cases out there for like $40 over a 2 month period.  Does modern medicine do this ?  No they've got all kinds of expensive Big-Pharma treatments that run up costs and do nothing to address the problem.  Like Sally Field and her BONIVA  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes  Take some arginine and lysine.

The reasons doctors and Big-Pharma can get away with all this is... AGAIN... an ignorant public.

So until Americans actually become health conscious like the Chinese, where they pay doctors only if they cure their patients and have $#!t-loads of herbs to stay healthy with then Americans will continue to pay through the nose for health-care due to our irresponsibilty, ignorance and laziness.
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Robert0326
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« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2009, 11:34:23 am »

I know the pharmaceutical companies are "in it for the money" because there's no money for curing something.  Good ole Capitalism huh.  Roll Eyes  The last big disease we cured was frigging Polio way back when.  If it was in everyone's best interest I don't see why everyone wouldn't pay their fair share. But that's just me. 

Yous right about most people being ignorant about their health.  They believe their doctors only because who else are they gonna believe.  Doctors don't want to prescribe holistic treatments because it would take away money from them and the pharmaceutical companies.
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Blasphemy is a victimless crime.
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."     Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 -Thomas Jefferson
Misty Ezelle
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2009, 11:45:25 pm »

Gov't Health-care = Eugenics
Wrong.  Government health care = good for all Americans.

Canada has government health care and are they running Eugenics experiments?  Nooooooooo.  Tom is right about the powerful lobbying that the pharmaceutical and insurance companies put forth in Washington. 


Then go to Canada and be put on a waiting list for treatment and pray you don't die while you are waiting for treatment.   Tongue

There is no waiting in Canada, that is a Republican talking point.

Besides, you have to wait here even if you do have insurance. I know someone who has to wait two months to get a cist removed from her uterus, and she even has insurance!  Unless you go to the emergency room, you have to wait in America.

And you get a much bigger bill for the privilige!
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Misty Ezelle
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2009, 11:46:21 pm »

Ryan Grim
ryan@huffingtonpost.com | HuffPost Reporting

Dems' Bogeyman Luntz Schooled Reid, Other Dems On Messaging

First Posted: 06-11-09 05:34 PM   |   Updated: 06-11-09 07:21 PM
The Senate Democratic leadership attacked GOP pollster Frank Luntz at its weekly press conference Thursday, mocking Republicans for taking their health care advice from the man Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) repeatedly dubbed "Dr. Frank I. Luntz."

"What we're hearing from the Republican leadership on the floor of the Senate is vaguely familiar. Dr. Frank I. Luntz issued this plan," said Durbin, waving a copy of a memo that Luntz wrote several months ago, outlining rhetorical tactics to oppose health care reform.

Durbin highlighted arguments made by Republican leadership: "They tell horror stories about health care stories in other countries. That would be Dr. Frank Luntz's talking point number five." And on he went, referring over and over to the talking points outlined in the Luntz memo.

Shortly after Luntz had released his memo, Democratic strategist Paul Begala responded with his own point-by-point counter-memo. "Because they know they cannot win the argument honestly, Republicans are resorting to mendacity," Begala wrote. "Democrats must not let them get away with it."

But the Senate Democrats already knew all they needed about such mendacious methods: Luntz himself had briefed them at a Democratic retreat earlier this year. His co-panelist: Paul Begala.

Since that January retreat, he has also briefed Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) personally, a Reid aide confirmed. The message to the leader and to the Senate Democratic caucus was the same: Words matter.

"He didn't talk about health care in particular," said Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.), a member of Democratic leadership. "He talked about words, and words matter, and how important it is how you portray what it is you're doing. And obviously now he's advising Republicans what kind of language they can use to fight for the status quo."

The Luntz-Reid meeting was also about messaging. The majority leader and the Republican pollster had met several times over the previous several years, although only met once this year, other than the retreat, said a senior aide to Reid. Luntz didn't return several calls and e-mails.
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Misty Ezelle
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2009, 11:47:33 pm »



Reid is not averse to meeting with a wide variety of consultants, the aide said, naming Begala, Geoffrey Garin, Mark Mellman, Susan McCue, Jim Margolis and Third Way's Matt Bennett as folks who've met with him this year. "He might not listen to all of them, but he hears them out," the aide said.

Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wisc.) said that many in the room left with a grudging respect for Luntz. "I thought it was great," he said of the briefing. "He really showed his ability to put things in interesting terms and people had to concede that he was pretty good at the use of language."

Murray, too, was impressed by Luntz' skill, if not his ultimate political goals--if, in fact, he actually has any underlying political ideology.

"I think people listened to him with interest. He's an intelligent guy and his goal is to help you provide the language to fight for what you believe in. And certainly he's doing that right now for those who want to oppose any kind of change in health care," she said.

Democrats have been slow on the rhetorical battleground, according to Feingold. "I think people took to heart not only what he was saying but [were] closely following how he was trying to manipulate the health care issue," Feingold said. "After the experience in 1994 and various other issues, Democrats have learned the lesson that you can't just have the right policies, you also have to use the right language. It's a question we were a little slow in learning."

Republicans, meanwhile, are calling themselves less impressed by Luntz's memo, claiming that the arguments they make are their own.

"There may be some overlap between what pollsters say and what politicians say, but some of it's just common sense," said Don Stewart, a spokesman for Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). "We're for reform."

But being on the side of reform is Luntz talking point number ten, the Huffington Post pointed out.

"We didn't need him to tell us that we're for reform," said Stewart.
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Misty Ezelle
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« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2009, 11:54:15 pm »

It's not every day that a sitting senator takes to the floor to call out a GOP strategist. But on Wednesday, Oregon Democrat Jeff Merkley did just that, whacking messaging guru Frank Luntz for writing a blueprint for demonizing health care reform and Republican officials for dutifully following his lead.



"Now, you may think that I'm raising this document before you, this -- this plan for how to kill health care, and that maybe it doesn't have any bearing on the real debate," said Merkley, a freshmen Democrat, from the floor, waving a thin set of white papers in his right hand. "But it absolutely does. These talking points are being echoed in this very chamber in order to kill health care."

What followed was a point-by-point comparison of Luntz's 28-page memo, distributed to congressional Republicans, to some of recent talking points coming straight from the mouths of GOP leadership. Said the Senator:

Here we go. Frank Luntz's memo, that's his memo on how to kill health care, came out in April. It says - talking point number five - "Health denial care horror stories in Canada and other countires do resonate, but you have to humanize them. You notice we recommend the phrase 'government takeover' rather than 'government run' or 'government control.'" Why? Because government takeover sounds even scarier.
So what did we hear in the chamber from our minority leader just recently? I quote - "Americans are concerned about a government takeover of health care and for good reason." And it goes on. So recognize that that is a point that's coming from a document about how to kill health care, not a responsible debate about the plan we have in front of us.


Merkley's remarks represent a new line of political debate about the reform process. The extent to which Democrats can establish that opposition to greater government involvement in health care is driven by poll-tested talking points, as opposed to legitimate ideological disagreements, could go some ways towards affecting the legislative process.

To be certain, progressive health care advocates also have well-tuned talking points and polling data at their disposal. But the conventional wisdom going into the upcoming reform battle has held that the Clinton-era effort at an overhaul was, in part, derailed by massive and correlated effort between private industry actors and sympathetic Republicans.

There is little public appetite for that happening again. Hence the benefits in putting Luntz at the center of the debate.

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Volitzer
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« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2009, 05:48:27 pm »

Americans are not health conscious therefore health-care reform is a big joke.
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Janilee Wolff
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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2009, 11:20:38 am »

No, all the pols are paid off by the health insurance industry, therefore, the idea of ever getting any reforms in it is a really big joke!
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Janilee Wolff
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« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2009, 11:21:51 am »

Sam Stein stein@huffingtonpost.com |
Daschle Urges Obama To Drop Public Health Care Plan




The man once slated to head Barack Obama's health care system overhaul is now coming out against one of the chief components of that effort.

Former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle said on Wednesday that the Obama White House would likely have to scrap a public option for health insurance coverage if it wanted to get the votes needed to pass systematic change.

"We've come too far and gained too much momentum for our efforts to fail over disagreement on one single issue," the Senator and one-time HHS Secretary nominee said, according to ABC News.

The remarks came after Dashcle, along with former Senate Majority Leaders Bob Dole and Howard Baker introduced his own proposal for health care reform that. That plan actually included a pseudo-version of a government-run option. The Daschle proposal calls for (among other things) public insurance pools to be administered by state government, not the feds.

In coming out against a public plan, Daschle adds kindling to an already roaring debate on health care reform. On Thursday morning, former Vermont Governor Howard Dean repeated the mantra that you cannot have effective legislation if it does not include a public option. At the White House on Wednesday, several state legislators who had met with current HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius argued the same point.

Certainly, the public seems to be weighed in Dean's favor. An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll conducted on Wednesday night showed that 76 percent of respondents wanted a choice between a public option for insurance coverage and private providers.


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Janilee Wolff
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« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2009, 11:22:55 am »

You SUCK, Daschele!  Sure glad you didn't get in charge of the Obama health care plan.  I guess it is to hell with everybody who doesn't have insurance, right?
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Janilee Wolff
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« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2009, 11:24:56 am »

Sam Stein stein@huffingtonpost.com
Obama Boost: New Poll Shows 76% Support For Choice Of Public Plan

First Posted: 06-17-09 11:19 PM   |   Updated: 06-18-09 12:02 AM



New poll numbers from NBC/Wall Street Journal produce two major and potentially conflicting story lines when it comes to the Obama administration's efforts for a health care overhaul. On the one hand, the American public overwhelmingly favors a choice between getting insurance coverage either through the private market or a government run option. Indeed, 76 percent of respondents said it was either "extremely" or "quite" important to "give people a choice of both a public plan administered by the federal government and a private plan for their health insurance."

With the public option being such a lightning rod in the current health care debate, progressive activists are already emailing around these numbers as evidence that voters are way ahead of the politicians. Certainly, the findings provide a boost of sorts to President Obama, who has stood by the public plan even as Republican opposition has crystallized.

That said, the president still has his work cut out for him. In the same NBC/WSJ poll, only 33 percent of respondents said they thought the president's health care plan, to the extent they knew of it, was a "good idea;" 32 percent said it was a bad idea.

In short: the administration has yet to complete the sale. An additional 30 percent of the public had no opinion of Obama's proposal for reform. But when read a description of the general outline -- requiring insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions, an employer mandate, tax credits for lower income families to buy coverage, and tax increases on wealthier Americans to pay for it - the number of respondents in support rose to 55 percent.

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Janilee Wolff
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« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2009, 11:27:42 am »

Who makes these decisions?  Not the people, who support it 76%!

Congress is a bunch of bribed and coerced blowhards who **** for the greedy insurance companies.
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