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Atlantis Under Antarctica?

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Robert0326
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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2009, 02:36:37 am »

'Ghost peaks' mapped under ice

By Jonathan Amos
Science reporter, BBC News

Scientists have completed their mission to map one of the most extraordinary mountain ranges on Earth.

The Gamburtsevs are a set of peaks equal in size to the European Alps, but they are hidden deep under the ice in the middle of the Antarctic continent.

The survey data gathered by the multi-national team working in harsh, sub-zero temperatures will help resolve the mystery of why the range exists at all.

Their presence, when first discovered in the 1950s, was totally unexpected.

Scientists thought the interior of the continent would be relatively flat.

Modern-day remote-sensing technology reveals quite the opposite - a very jagged landscape, albeit buried under up to 4km of ice.

"We can confirm they are there; we've seen them under the ice," said Dr Fausto Ferraccioli from the British Antarctic Survey.

"Not only are they similar in dimension to the European Alps, but they are also similar in aspect: we see very sharp peaks and valleys which are remarkably similar to the Alps themselves," he told BBC News.

"It all adds to the mystery - from the tectonic perspective of how these mountains were created; and from the glacial history perspective of how the East Antarctic ice sheet was formed and didn't erode these peaks."

The AGAP (Antarctica's Gamburtsev Province) project comprised scientists, engineers, pilots and support staff from the UK, the US, Germany, Australia, China and Japan.

They established two field camps deep in the Antarctic interior.

Aircraft swept back and forth across the ice, mapping the shape of the sub-glacial mountains using ice-penetrating radar.

Other instruments measured the local gravitational and magnetic fields.

Some 120,000km were flown, the equivalent of three trips around the globe. In total, over 20% (one-fifth) of the East Antarctic Ice Sheet was explored.

EXPLORING THE SUBGLACIAL GAMBURTSEV MOUNTAINS
 
1. Aircraft used radar to detect ice thickness and layering, and mapped the shape of the deeply buried bedrock
2. The planes also conducted gravity and magnetic surveys to glean more information about the mountains' structure
3. By listening to seismic waves passing through the range, scientists could probe rock properties deep in the Earth



Information on the deeper structure of the Gamburtsevs was gleaned from a network of seismometers that listened to earthquake signals passing through the rock from the other side of the globe.

"The temperatures at our camps hovered around -30C, but three kilometres beneath us at the bottom of the ice sheet we saw liquid water in the valleys," explained AGAP US co-leader Dr Robin Bell, of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University, New York, US.

EXPANDING ICE SHEET
 
 
 
 BACKNEXT1 of 4"The radar mounted on the wings of the aircraft transmitted energy through the thick ice and let us know that it was much warmer at the base of the ice sheet."

The range covers a region at least 700km by 250km. The highest peak is about 2,800m above sea level. The deepest valley is around 800m below sea level.

Researchers believe the Gamburtsevs would have been the starting point for the great glaciers that eventually spread out to cover the entire polar region when it was plunged into a deep freeze more than 30 million years ago.

In their data, scientists hope to pinpoint the best place to drill a core from the ice. Ancient air trapped in the in snow layers as they were laid down could provide remarkable new insights into the climate history of Earth.

"At the moment, it is like the first page of a book. Up until now we just had an ambitious plan. Now we have all this remarkable data to pore over," Dr Ferraccioli.

AGAP was a flagship expedition for International Polar Year (IPY), a concerted effort by the science community to better understand both the Antarctic and the Arctic. IPY formally closes on Wednesday.

The mountains were named after a Russian geophysicist known as Grigoriy Gamburtsev. The presence of the range was first detected by a Soviet expedition in 1958.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7908824.stm

This mountain range could be the one that Plato descrided.  What do you all think?

« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 02:47:42 am by Robert0326 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2009, 11:10:53 pm »

 Smiley  I hope I haven’t given anyone the idea that it’s been my own personal theory about Pole Sift and how Antarctica became a frozen wasteland overnight.   I’m only repeating the most plausible theory in my mind of everything I’ve read.  And posts #13, & 14 in this thread, (if you follow up on the link Qoais posted) says it all pretty well.  I’ve read the work of both Flem-Ath and R. Cedric Leonard before, and I These guys are in the same camp of thought that I’m drawing my own opinions from.  Antarctica was definitely in a warmer place on the globe for the mountains and rivers under the ice to have formed the way are under the ice now.  I’ve had a copy of Hapgood’s Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings for years since he published it when he was a professor in New Hampshire.  He started the ball rolling on a lot of these theories, which have been modified, and now better explained with the accepted tectonic plate theory.

Has Nikas read what Flam-Ath thinks about his mistranslation, in your post #14 Robert?


Quote
As for the notion that Plato's numbers should be scaled down by a factor of ten, a frequent argument used to support claims that Atlantis was really the Minoan civilization in the Aegean, he doesn't buy it. A factor of 10 error might be understandable when you are using Arabic numbers,

I'd like to hear his rubutal on that.

Mike
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Qoais
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2009, 11:39:28 pm »

I read somewhere that in ancient Greece, when they were writing the numbers out as in a story, they didn't write the numeral itself - 9000 for instance - but wrote the words for the numbers - as in nine thousand. 

eg:  As touching your citizens of nine thousand years ago, I will briefly inform you of their laws and of their most famous action;

Check here to see how ancient Greeks displayed the numerals:

http://www.foundalis.com/lan/grknum.htm

PS
Ancient Greeks didn't use the decimal system, so if anyone changed the number by "moving the decimal point" it would have been in a translation either by an ancient scribe of Roman times or a more modern one. 
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 12:08:59 am by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2009, 01:08:16 am »

Great idea for a thread.  A map of Antarctica:

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Janus
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2009, 01:12:54 am »

Atlantis Under Antarctica?

After WW II, scientists started to pay close attention to the issue of a supposedly once-existing civilization in Antarctica. The hypothesis is confirmed by some medieval maps and research of paleogeologists and glaciologists.
In January of 1820, Lieutenant of Russian Empire Fleet Mikhail Lazarev discovered a new continent. In the beginning of 20th century, a Russian encyclopaedia, while adducing the approximate square milage of south pole continent, reported that it was insufficiently explored and there was no flora and fauna. The author of the article also mentioned the richness of the algae and sea life.

Twenty years later, the director of the Istanbul National Museum, Khalil Edkhem, was sorting out a library of the Byzantine emperors in an old palace. He found an ancient map made on gazelle skin. On the map, there were the shores of western and southern Africa, as well as the northern shores of Antarctica. Khalil could not believe hiseyes: the shores of the Queen Mod Land, to the south of the 70th parallel, was free of ice. An ancient cartographer marked a mountain chain there. The name of the cartographer was known: an admiral of the Ottoman Empire fleet, Piri Reis, who lived in the first half of 16th century.

The map’s authenticity was without doubt. Graphology examinations of the notes on the margin confirmed that they belonged to the admiral.
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2009, 01:13:14 am »

In 1949, a combined British and Swedish expedition conducted intensive seismic measurements of the South Pole through the ice cap. According to the commander of 8th Technical Investigation Squadron of the US Armed Force Strategic Command, Colonel Harold Olmayer, “ the geographical details of the bottom part of the map (the shore of Antarctica) correspond with the results of the seismic measurements. We cannot correlate these data with the supposed level of geography in 1513.”

In his notes on the map’s margin, made in the early 16th century, Piri Reis explained that he was not responsible for the cartography and that the map was based on earlier sources. Some of these “earlier sources” belong to his contemporaries (for example, to Christopher Columbus), while others could be dated to the 4th century B. C. Not later, because one of these sources belonged to Alexander the Great.

Of course, professional historians who specialize in ancient history could say the following: “This is only one more hypothesis. What about documentary and, what is more desirable, trust-worthy sources? The opinion of the Turkish admiral and notes on a margin… You know, it is too disputable!”

Therefore, I would like to present the position of the late historian and professor of Keene College in New Hampshire, USA, Charles H. Hapgood. In the late 1959, he found in the Washington Congressional Library a map created by Orontheus Phynius in 1531. Orontheus Phynius depicted Antarctica with mountains and rivers, without glaciers. The relief of the continent’s center was not marked, which, according to Hapgood, could mean that there had been an ice cap in that area.
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2009, 01:13:29 am »

In the early 1960s, Phynius’ map was studied by Doctor Richard Stratchen of the Massachusetts Technology Institute together with Hapgood. Both scientists concluded that Phynius had indeed depicted Antarctica free of ice. The characteristics depicted were very close to the information that was obtained in 1958 by specialists from different countries

Gerard Cremer, known in the world as Mercator, also trusted Orontheus’ evidence. He included the Phynius map into his atlas, in which several maps of Antarctica by Mercator himself were also included. There is one interesting feature: on Mercator’s map of 1569, the west shore of South America is pictured less accurately than on the earlier map of Mercator from 1538. The reasons for this contradiction are the following: while working at the earlier map, the cartographer of 16th century proceeded from ancient sources, which were not kept for our time, and while working at the later map, he proceeded from observations of the first Spanish explorers to South America. Gerard Mercato’s mistake can be excused. In the 16th century, there were no precise methods to measure longitude: as a rule, an error could have been hundreds of kilometers!
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Janus
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2009, 01:13:46 am »

Finally, we come to Philippe Boiche, full member of the French Academy of Science. In 1737, he published his map of Antarctica. Boiche presented a precise picture of Antarctica of the time when the continent was free of ice. On his map, the under-ice topography of the continent is presented, about which our civilization had no clear idea until 1958. Moreover, based on now-lost sources, the French academician depicted in the middle of the South Pole a body of water dividing it into two sub-continents, which were situated to the west and to the east from the line, where the Trans-Antarctic Mountains are now marked. According to the investigation in the framework of International Geophysical Year (1958), Antarctic is in fact an archipelago of large islands covered with 1.5-kilometers of ice.

Medieval maps show Antarctica without an ice cap or partially covered with ice. The precision of the 16th century cartographers was very high and even surprising. Their data surpassed the technical possibilities even of the late Middle Ages (for example, the determination of the longitude of a relief within one minute). This level was reached by mankind in the late 18th century, while in some cases, the 20th.

Scientists cannot comment on the high scientific level of medieval cartography. Information from almost 2000-year-old primary sources is supposed to be not well-founded.

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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2009, 01:14:14 am »

Orthodox geology claimed that the age of the Antarctica ice cap was at least 25 million years; however, recently, it has been reduced to six million years.

Therefore, we should notice the following feature of the Reis map: the shore of the continent was free of ice. On the Phynius map, made 18 years after the Reis map, there is an ice cap around the South Pole within the limits of 80th and the 75th parallels. Two hundred years later, academician Boiche depicted Antarctica with glaciers.

The conclusion is obvious: we can see the process of the spreading of glaciers on the southern continent.

In 1949, Admiral Baird’s expedition bore holes into the Ross Sea in three spots, where Orontheus Phynius marked river-beds. In the cuts, fine-grained layers were found, obviously brought to the sea with rivers, whose sources were situated in temperate latitudes (i.e. free of glaciers).

While using the nuclear dating method of doctor U. Oury from the Karnegy Institute in Washington, scientists discovered that Antarctica’s rivers, which were sources of fine-dyspersated deposits, were flowing as depicted on the Phynius map, about 6,000 years ago. About 4000 years B. C., glacial sediments started to accumulate on the bottom of Ross Sea. Kernels show that before this, there was a long warm period.
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2009, 01:14:29 am »

Therefore, the maps of Reis, Phynius, and Mercator present Antarctica when the ancient Egyptian and Shumer civilizations were newborn. This point of view is excluded by almost all professional historians and could be regarded as an operating hypothesis that cannot be verified. Any historian would say that there were no civilization of the kind in the late 5th millenium B. C. According to Doctor Jacob Hock from Illinois University, the deposits in-question could be 6 to 12 thousand years old.

In September 1991, US and Egyptian archaeologists discovered at a distance of 13 km from Nile River, in Abidos, 12 large boats that belonged to Pharaohs of First Dynasty. The age of the boats is about 5,000 years. They are believed to be the most ancient vessels in the world, the leader of the expedition, D. O’Connor far, the find is estimated to be aimed for religious rites.

According to Herodotus, ancient Egyptians tracked stars more than 10,000 years ago. This statement of the “father of history” is supposed to be esoteric and, therefore, not true. However, land nations seldom produced astronomers. The fact that ancient Egyptians were interested in astronomy may indicate that they inherited some knowledge from an unknown civilization of navigators.
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2009, 01:15:13 am »

Workers of US technical intelligence determined the projection center of the Piri Reis map, whose data belongs to 4000 year B. C. The projection center was supposedly situated near today’s Cairo. At that time, according to most historians, all then-existing nations were at a very low level of development.

Between the 5th and 10th milleniums B. C., there was a civilization on Earth that possessed great knowledge in the field of navigation, cartography, and astronomy, which was no less advanced than that that of the 18th century.

This civilization preceded our civilization, and it was not an extraterrestrial one. Its age could be several thousands years, while its location was probably on the northern shore of the most southern continent, or archipelago: Antarctica. Later, this civilization may have resettled to the north-east of Africa.

The reason for the death of the civilization was the covering of Antarctica with glaciers. This process started no earlier not than in 10th millenium B. C. It cannot be excluded that there were also large-scale floods, which were regular and cause long-term local deluges (this is confirmed by archaeologists). These disasters could have destroyed most of the civilization’s cultural objects. However, some fragments might be found in the future under the thickness of ice. It can also be assumed that the survivors of Antarctica kept and handed down knowledge to the ancient Egyptians.

Therefore, if there will ever be an extensive exploration of Antarctica, mankind will most likely be surprised with the results.

&to=www.factor-online.com' target=_blank>www.factor-online.com

Translated by Vera Solovieva

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/12/02/40228.html
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Robert0326
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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2009, 01:30:43 am »

No Mike he hasn't commented on this thread yet but would welcome his input.
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« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2009, 10:10:15 am »

The Piri Reis map does not show Antarctica or Terra Australis.

The southern portion of that map shows the southern portion of South America, bent eastward to support the Portugese claim to that part of South America through the Treaty of Tordesillas.
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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2009, 10:14:36 am »

The Piri Reis map isn't particularly accurate in depicting the Western Hemisphere.   North America, for instance, is not an island, nor do the coasts of South America and Antarctica bear much resemblance to what's on the map. It's (huge!) errors like that that many people refuse to acknowledge or deal with that give the lie to it being an inexplicable document.

The Piri Reis map is not the most accurate map of the sixteenth century, as has been claimed, there being many, many world maps produced in the remaining eighty-seven years of that century that far surpass it in accuracy. The Ribero maps of the 1520s and 1530s, the Ortelius map of 1570, and the Wright-Molyneux map of 1599 (‘the best map of the sixteenth century’) are only a few better-known examples.

McIntosh, Gregory C. (2000), The Piri Reis Map of 1513, Athens, Georgia: University of Georgia Press, ISBN 0-8203-2157-5 .
(world's leading cartography historian)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 10:41:39 am by Qoais » Report Spam   Logged

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

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« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2009, 10:52:07 am »

The Piri Reis map, discovered in 1929, was drawn on a gazelle skin. It was drawn in 1513 by an admiral of the Turkish Fleet named Piri Reis. The map is extraordinary because not only does it show the west coast of Africa and the east coast of South America, it also depicts the northern coast of Antarctica. Keep in mind that this map was drawn 300 years before Antarctica was “discovered”!

Notes made by Reis on the map indicate that he used a number of other maps as sources of information for the map that he drew. Due to his elevated status in the Turkish Navy, Reis was able to access the resources of the Imperial Library of Constantinople.

Scientists have examined the map and concluded that the Piri Reis map shows an amazingly accurate depiction of Antarctica's coastline. The coastline must have been mapped before it was covered by the ice-cap, which is now about one mile thick.

In the past, scientists felt that the ice-cap that now covers Antarctica was about one million years old. That would mean that the map was drawn based on information gathered a million years ago. This would be impossible because man did not exist at that time.

Further study has indicated that the last time period during which the Antarctic was free of ice ended approximately 6,000 years ago. When the ice-free period began is still unclear, although it has been estimated at somewhere between 13000 BC and 9000 BC.

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