Archaeology and Human Evolution

[archaeologist]

You can't be serious about that one Arche/aologist. Even if evolution is plastic and  in some cases heated plastic, then what exactly can you teach about creationism in a science classroom? You can't be serious about this

i am because if evolution is true what does it matter if creationism is taught in the science classroom? nothing will come of it and when people die, they just cease to exist. there is no after death judgment or punishment to worry about if one disobeys the Bible or evolutionary teaching.

but that is a big 'if' and really i know that evolution does not exist thus evolutionists need to bully and create a monopoly to make sure people do not hear the truth.

on another forum there is a topic, about this and i take the stand that neither creation nor evolution should be taught in the classroom. 1. regular science items like photosynthesis, or tectonics, etc. should be taught; 2. both creation and origins (all alternatives) are not in the domain of science. they are in the domain of theology for origins was first heard about from the Bible or righteous God fearing ancient people (noah and his family) science has intruded into a discussion it has no right being a part of.

Last time I checked creationists needed no scientific proof of anything to say God did it.

no we don't  read hebrews 11 it is by faith that we believe God created everything by His word and power because we were not there and that is the only real choice anyone has. modern scientists, evolutionists, including darwin and wallace were not there nor observed one thing about origin in any form thus they cannot say what took place and their alternatives require faith as well.

Didn't you intend to say that some creationists are scientists and by extension can show a scientific model as to how God performed his 30th century physics? if you didn't intend to say that then what are you saying?

there are creationists who are scientists and there are theistic evolutionists or progressive creationist who claim to be christian who work in science but creation was a one time non-repeatable supernatural act and does not fit into any modern day scientific model, or any secular model and those people i just mentioned do not follow what God said but adapt secular models to fit their compromised thinking.

everything about the Bible includes faith as part of the equation, not physical evidence though we will get enough of that to strengthen our faith which means we can look for some but not to expect more than is enough. secular science tries to remove faith from the equation by its pursuit of natural answers but as i said, the world was not created through natural ways thus science is looking in the wrong places for its answers.

[Qoais]

You use the term "God fearing".  Why should anyone believe in a God they have to fear?  There's enough hate and enmity in the world between man, we don't have to worship a God with the same characteristics.  Supposedly, God is Love.  Therefore, he is not hate, he is not jealous, he is not mean, he is not angry.  I've said this before.  Why do you wish to feel fear? 

People can believe in a supreme creator that doesn't have those attributes.  I asked you before.  Are you saying God is less than one of his creations?  We accept that angels are beautiful, caring, loving creatures, helpful to man because God made them for that purpose.  Are you saying God is less than one of his creations?  Angels are not capable of those petty human emotions - only love - and God is no different.  God does not uncreate.  He does not kill.  He does not pick favorites. 

I've asked a Christian friend this question before.  God created everyone equal.  He loves us all equally.  Whether we believe in him or not, HE loves us without doubt.  Why is it then, that you think only those who BELIEVE in the same God you do, will have an afterlife?  The afterlife is already in place.  The system if you will, is already organized.  God created the whole of it and there's no changing it.  If God has the system in place for everyone to have an afterlife, there's nothing you believe, that can change it.  So - I asked - if only people who believe in the Bible get to go to heaven - what happens to all the rest of the children of God, those ones he created with a different colored skin?  God is not prejudiced like humans are.  How can he be?  He made everyone.  He loves them all the same.  Doesn't he?

The cycle for life after death cannot be destroyed even if this planet is ruined by us.  God has made a way for us to continue and whether it's on this planet or a different one, the system is still in place.  It doesn't matter if YOU believe it or not.  It's like - well, a train coming down the track.  You can believe it's coming or not, but it will come whether you believe it or not.  If God made it so, it will be so for everyone, not just the ones who think they're special because they BELIEVE.

[archaeologist]

You use the term "God fearing".  Why should anyone believe in a God they have to fear?  There's enough hate and enmity in the world between man, we don't have to worship a God with the same characteristics.

here is a good example of opponents of a 'literal' interpretation are in fact very literal.  they look at the word 'fear' and assume the most literal of definitions and refuse to investigate the word to see if any other meaning applies.

here, the term God fearing, does not mean be afraid of God, or hatred or any other thing that poster mentioned. it simply means 'respect' God for who He is and what He has done

Supposedly, God is Love.  Therefore, he is not hate, he is not jealous, he is not mean, he is not angry.

this i san example of someone who does not know what love is. one can love and hate at the same time. one can love a person but hate what they do--in this case sin--. love also does have jealousy as a part of their nature, it i snormal to love someone and be jealous that they give their attention to something else. love may not be mean but it does discipline, punish restrict and many other things people do not like. and yes when a personloves they still get angry.

what this person wants from 'love' is the freedom to do what he wants, begiven what he wants regardless, and not be punished for his misdeeds. that is not love but spoiling a person. if you want to deal with God then get the facts straight and remember that the american freedoms do not apply to God's kingdom nor the spiritual world.

People can believe in a supreme creator that doesn't have those attributes.

people can believe in whatever they want but that doesn't mean theypicked the correct God/god.

Are you saying God is less than one of his creations?

we are created in His image, thus we have similar emotions as He does. that does not make Him lesser than his creation but it should humble us to think He made us in His image.

Angels are not capable of those petty human emotions

have you met an angel? do you really know what they feel and how they act? quote chapter and verse from the Bible which supports you on this.

God does not uncreate.  He does not kill.  He does not pick favorites. 

read the Bible again, in both the OT and NT God does punish via killing.

Why is it then, that you think only those who BELIEVE in the same God you do, will have an afterlife? 

everyone has an afterlife, but only a few will go to heaven, those who do not believe go to hell

in reading your post you seem to be looking for jusification to do what you want regardless if it is sin or not and still expect to gain entrance to heaven. doesn't work that way. read john 3:16 and the book of 1 John for some answers on how it works.

[Qoais]

I am not looking for justification for anything.  In my own opinion, I'm a good person.  It has nothing to do with punishment for something I might have done.  Why does there have to be a need for punishment?

I used to work for a lady who trained horses.  Never, would she raise a hand to any horse, no matter how badly it behaved.  People would bring their horses to her, after someone else had already worked with the horse and hit it and yelled at it and so forth.  It might take a bit longer with these horses, but she trained every one with love and kindness.  The reason people hurt each other is usually in anger.  If you control your anger, there is no reason to punish.  The teacher is the one who needs the patience and understanding, to get across what is being taught.  It is not the horse that was at fault because it didn't understand.  It was the person who was teaching the horse who became impatient and then angry. 

You keep giving God human attributes. 

love also does have jealousy as a part of their nature, it i snormal to love someone and be jealous that they give their attention to something else. love may not be mean but it does discipline, punish restrict and many other things people do not like. and yes when a personloves they still get angry.

read the Bible again, in both the OT and NT God does punish via killing.

And as I've said before, this is not the God I believe in, that's for sure.   This is a case of justifying murder.  Why?  God, who created everything, does not send us out to destroy it.  Whoever that is, the Bible is talking about, is a man made creature, devised to control the people.  It is not the God who created the universes and everything in them.  How petty do you think he is? 

How do we know we were created in his image when no one has ever seen him?  The Bible says so?  So what?  The Bible is a book, written by men to control the masses.  You have said in other posts, that since we weren't there when creation started, we can't know what took place.  Same goes for being created in His image.  We don't know that.  We're just taking some guys word for it.  How do we know he wasn't eating magic mushrooms and having a psychedelic vision?

Tell me, what happened to this God in the Bible that was leading Moses?  Where did he go?  Why isn't he still around?  Got all huffy did he, and abandoned his followers?  The God I believe in would never do that.  The God I believe in loves unconditionally.  You think God judges us.  He doesn't  He already knows what we're going to do and when we're going to do it.  To live a human life, is a step on the path of perfection.  God isn't sitting there worrying about if we go out to play, whether we play in the sandbox or if we go swimming.  He knows we are fallible and he knows we are going to do things that are wrong, but he's not sitting there just gloating waiting to punish us.

[archaeologist]

It has nothing to do with punishment for something I might have done.  Why does there have to be a need for punishment?

read the book of revelation

The Bible is a book, written by men to control the masses

that would be wrong and if all it took to control the masses was a book, then the killing tactics of the communist nations and many dictators of the world would not be needed.

The God I believe in would never do that.

then you do not believe in God but a god made after your image and desire. love accepts peopel and God for whom they are and does not change them. clearly you do not want God of the Bible but a designer god you get to control.

[archaeologist]

the thread title is archaeology and human evolution well guess what, evolution, the process, the theory, the idea has no ancient roots in early civilizations and archaeology has turned up no such proof that it was a viable alternative back in the days of ewgyptians, sumerians, akkaddians and so on.

the first recorded instance of someone mentioning anything similar to the evolutionary theory was in the 6th century BC china (After the Flood by Bill Cooper). but there are no official records in any government archives unearthed that provide any support for or any validity to the evolutionary theory.

it is not because they were not smart enough to figure it out, after all they built huge structures, had running hot and cold water, flush toilets, and so much more. it is because they knew evolution was not real. there is a reason why every nation has a flood and creation story and no evolutionary bedtime tales, or sightings of intermediary species and so on, it is because evolution never took place and never existed.

[Rebecca]

if science keeps earching then it is saying to the world it doe snot have the truth and if it keeps changing then it is telling the world that its declarations cannot be trusted because their 'truth' will change at the slightest whim.

It's not about being trusted, it's about finding the truth.  This differs from religion, which claims to have the truth, yet has none of the scientific answers. 

true christians are not to follow science for it is a limited field dealing with limited data and designed to omit information along with the truth. it is essentially the blind leading the blind/

Really?  Science is the father of medicine  I suppose that means, for you, at least, that everyone who seeks medical help is not a true Christian?

if evolutionwere true, they would have no fear of having creationism taught in the science classroom

There is no science involved in creationism, so what is there to be taught in the classroom? Also, by "creationism," I suppose you mean only the Christian creation story (there are many others), and,, in America, at least, there is a separation of church and state. 

you do not know what you are saying. the Bible was never written by men, men may have put the words on paper but it wasn't their words.

Prove it. You can't, because it's all about your faith.

if it were solely a product of human origin we would not be having this discussion because the Bible would have been proven false centuries ago.  science has nothing to do with it and has no monopoly on origins or anything else it studies.

Parts of it have been proven false, no global flood, the earth is not six thousand years old, was not made in six days, Adam and Eve were not the first people, how much more needs to be proven false for people to accept that it is meant to be a book of moral teachings, not a history book?

i am sure you mean 'abel' not 'adam'.marrying one's sister or brother was not forbidden to well after the time of Noah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

No, I meant Cain, who was cat out east of Eden, and then married, to someone obviously not his sister, nor does the Bible mention that Adam and Eve had other children before Abel was killed.

That flatly means that there were other people in the world and that Adam and Eve were NOT the first people.

it is much more than that andif it were simply a human moral lesson bopok where did the morality come from to teach morals?

As people grew more civilized, they realized that it is to everyone's mutual benefit to be kinder to one another and to work together for their mutual benefit, as opposed to one's personal benefit.  This is just as true today as it was ten thousand years ago, or en thousand years from today.

[Rebecca]

i am not the one who is desperate, i have the truth and do not worry about what you present because i know it is founded in lies and distortions etc.

Also because you don't really care what the truth is, since you have your 'faith.'

t is impossible to prove the existence of something that never existed.

True, that's why evolution is based on the study of fossils, which creationists always tend to forget.

you forget that not one ancient document supports the evolutionary theory, they all support the biblical  teachings which is why every nation has a creation and flood story but no evolutionary tales.

So you are getting your science from the ancients, who based all their learning on myths?  How very unscientific.

who cares what the church fathers say? i don't.

You should, they compiled and rewrote the Bible, which you place so much faith in.

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Belief in evolution does not equate to lack of belief in God

yes it does because one is saying they do not believe God's word and claim He is a liar so yes,

No it doesn't, it means that we don't believe everything written in the Bible, which again, was compiled by men.

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in fact, you aren't in a position to speak for God and how dare you even seek to try. You are not an emissary.

you do not know who you are talking to an dyou better watch your mouth for you are playing with fire. you are wrong plain and simple and so are all evolutionary scientists and those who believe in or accept evolution.

So you are an emissary?  By all means tell us more, exalted one.

It is people like you that have set us back in science far more than we have as right to be in the year, 2010. So if I am a little harsh, it is because I feel it is well-earned towards your point of view.  If people like you had their way, I am sure that we would still be back in the Dark Ages, "God-fearing" people, who know nothing about the universe we live in.

[archaeologist]

It's not about being trusted, it's about finding the truth

siggghhhh!!!!! if it keeps changing what the truth is then it cannot be trusted to find the truth. it has wasted it opportunity and provenincapable of accomplishing the task

Science is the father of medicine 

wrong again. you really do not know what you are talking about do you. medicine has been around for a lot longer than modern science and they were not too shabby at it. by the way, natural medicines are far healtheir for you than scientific ones. one does not need a scientific degree to practice medicine and the ancients , plus some grannies have proven that true.

There is no science involved in creationism,

creation does not fit the secular scientific model and it shouldn't for secular science is designed to look for natural answers which means it is looking in the wrong place and getting the wrong answers. creation is a one time supernatural act and it will not be repeated  especially if secular science demands it. you have a lot to learn.

Parts of it have been proven false, no global flood, the earth is not six thousand years old, was not made in six days, Adam and Eve were not the first people, how much more needs to be proven false for people to accept that it is meant to be a book of moral teachings, not a history book?

wrong again. there has been no scientific or archaeological discovery that has proven the bible false. absence of evidence is not evidence for absence. when i read your posts i get the impression you just pick anything that tells you what you want to hear and you just believe it then regurgitate here in our own words.

then married, to someone obviously not his sister,

prove it true... who would he have married since adam and eve were the first people on earth? hate to tell you this but the neanderthal never existed and there is only 1 race of people NOT 4.

nor does the Bible mention that Adam and Eve had other children before Abel was killed.

nor does it say they were the first children born.

As people grew more civilized, they realized that it is to everyone's mutual benefit to be kinder to one another and to work together for their mutual benefit,

wrong again. you remove God and people get worse. the nazis, the khmer rouge, the japanese, the communists and so many more examples have all proven you wrong.

Also because you don't really care what the truth is, since you have your 'faith.'

i know what the truth is but you obviously do not as you have listened to those who do not know the truth and seek alternatives to the Bible. peopel like you are deceived and being deceived--2 tim 3: 1-9, 12-17.

that's why evolution is based on the study of fossils, which creationists always tend to forget.

again you prove you do not know what you talk about. fossils are only one item studied to prove evolution and the fossil record does not support that theory. itis impossible to say which one is the mother and daughter fossil plus it is all assumption and conjecture not scientific observation they use to make their determinations. evolution is not scientific at all.

So you are getting your science from the ancients, who based all their learning on myths?  How very unscientific.

science is not the criteria to be used for the truth nor anything. you really have a bad picture of the ancients and their ways. since they were able to construct buildings that stand for 4,000 years and the moderns, with all of their scientific knowledge, cannot, it means that science is not as great as you think it is. also, the ancients had technology that rivaled the modern age, including hot an dcold running water, flush toilets,central heating,  a computer, and much more. i think you need to study a lot more.

You should, they compiled and rewrote the Bible, which you place so much faith in.

wrong again. here you just regurgitate what you have heard and forgot to do your own research. there has never been any proof or evidence that supported that wild claim.

So you are an emissary?  By all means tell us more, exalted one.

insults get you nowhere and just show that you do not know anything.

It is people like you that have set us back in science far more than we have as right to be in the year, 2010.

s. marinatos was walking down a road in the town (near Akrotiri) he was excavating, after his discovery of it and he kicked something. he bent down and found a piece of glass that was shaped for a telescope. he pondered that if the minoan society had been allowed to continue unchecked we would be in the star trek age now. unfortunately, this civilization existed about 3500-4000 years ago and people like me did not and could not destroy such an advanced civilization, if there were people like me then.


what sets back science is the corruption found within its boundaries not people like me. science isnot perfect nor infallible and it certainly is not immune to the sin and corruption that entered the world at adam's sin. i can regale you with stories of how men of science cheated, fabricated their experiments, their results, who lied, plagerized and so on but would you believe and accept those stories?

you have to have an open mind to do so and right now i do not see you possessing such a mind.